DaveT said:

Guitarhero said:

Waiting to hear from a friend who took his daughter to this concert Whats with some of the smily faces on some of these comments

Hope she's alright ...

... going to a concert to sing and dance with likeminded strangers is one of the best experiences you can have as a human on this planet. The thought of 22 people going to a show and not making it home again is heartbreaking. Some of the young folk at this show might not ever want to go to a show again after last night ... so sad

I honestly don't know what the pointless individuals who carry out these attacks think they are going to achieve. What has any of the attacks carried out in the last few years achieved? Absolutely nothing. Pointless evil people. The victims will be remembered, the perpetrator won't.

[Edited 5/23/17 2:09am]

Great experience meets a a sad tragedy. I can only imagine the great pain those families especially the father are going through.

TrivialPursuit said:

domainator2010 said:

They're killing children??!! Like.... why???! -cry-

People that plan to set off bombs don't care about children. The guy who mowed through a sidewalk in Times Square didn't care about children, women, the elderly, teenagers. Those videos are horrifying, to see people piling up on the hood of a car like that scene in Twister where the truck is barreling through the corn field.

Timothy McVeigh called the children he murdered in Oklahoma City "collateral damage".

.

What are they trying to prove by killing innocent children/people? Cowards!!

cloveringold85 said:

What are they trying to prove by killing innocent children/people? Cowards!!

They're delusional. They think they're doing Allah's work, destroying infidels (the Qu'ran doesn't say anything about that, by the way). Terrorism is meant to instill fear into people, possibly to petition their government to get out of other countries. bin Laden himself said he wanted the U.S. out of Afghanistan (this stemming back to the 1980s when the US helped Afghanistan pushed the Russians out - the US never left after that conflict, and that fueled al Qaeda, a US created militia, turned on the US and radicalized people). He said if the US didn't leave, he'd drive them out, or retaliate. The US policies damage the countries the military is in. The US tries to shove democracy down people's throats, which really isn't even about voting. It's solely about the US getting to oil, and Imperialism (for those who don't know, look it up). Hell, WWII has been over how many years, and the US is still in Japan and Germany!

Now whatever the UK's foreign policies are, I do not know. It could have an ultimate reason that there is still terrorism in those places (same can be asked about France). It's often a retaliation, in their minds.

Let me be clear - I'm not saying it makes sense to me. Murder is senseless. But terrorism is meant to scare people, to put fear in them, to alter the way they live their lives. The delusion is that it hurts a small number of people, but they think they're doing something that's part of a bigger purpose. It is cowardly, and it is pointless, no matter how you cut it. The question is - are countries like the US and UK creating these enemies by way of policy etc, or are these cowards wrapped up in a propaganda of their own doing, watching too many "death to america" videos on YouTube?

This guy was on a watch list for a long time, but considered not an imminent threat. I'd say, someone needs to rewrite their way of watching people who might be radicalized. Everyone is revealed to be on a list after they do damage and can't be held accountable. Why wasn't someone on them 24 hours ago???

TrivialPursuit said:

cloveringold85 said:

What are they trying to prove by killing innocent children/people? Cowards!!

They're delusional. They think they're doing Allah's work, destroying infidels (the Qu'ran doesn't say anything about that, by the way). Terrorism is meant to instill fear into people, possibly to petition their government to get out of other countries. bin Laden himself said he wanted the U.S. out of Afghanistan (this stemming back to the 1980s when the US helped Afghanistan pushed the Russians out - the US never left after that conflict, and that fueled al Qaeda, a US created militia, turned on the US and radicalized people). He said if the US didn't leave, he'd drive them out, or retaliate. The US policies damage the countries the military is in. The US tries to shove democracy down people's throats, which really isn't even about voting. It's solely about the US getting to oil, and Imperialism (for those who don't know, look it up). Hell, WWII has been over how many years, and the US is still in Japan and Germany!

Now whatever the UK's foreign policies are, I do not know. It could have an ultimate reason that there is still terrorism in those places (same can be asked about France). It's often a retaliation, in their minds.

Let me be clear - I'm not saying it makes sense to me. Murder is senseless. But terrorism is meant to scare people, to put fear in them, to alter the way they live their lives. The delusion is that it hurts a small number of people, but they think they're doing something that's part of a bigger purpose. It is cowardly, and it is pointless, no matter how you cut it. The question is - are countries like the US and UK creating these enemies by way of policy etc, or are these cowards wrapped up in a propaganda of their own doing, watching too many "death to america" videos on YouTube?

This guy was on a watch list for a long time, but considered not an imminent threat. I'd say, someone needs to rewrite their way of watching people who might be radicalized. Everyone is revealed to be on a list after they do damage and can't be held accountable. Why wasn't someone on them 24 hours ago???

.

Yes, but harming/killing innocent children? And at a concert? Just horrible!!

.

You sound very educated in politics. Very impressive! I'm not usually a political person, but these types of things seem to be so commonplace these days. I remember as a kid, we never worried about stuff like this. Our Parents didn't have to worry about sending us to school and there would be a madman running around with a gun! It's just terrible, and no child should have to fear for their life when they are going to school, or out with friends at a concert!!

.

The terrorists will never be stopped. Hate just fuels more hate and they will keep recruiting this young, naive men who think this will give them power to rule the world or something!

.

I don't know!!

TrivialPursuit said:

This guy was on a watch list for a long time, but considered not an imminent threat. I'd say, someone needs to rewrite their way of watching people who might be radicalized. Everyone is revealed to be on a list after they do damage and can't be held accountable. Why wasn't someone on them 24 hours ago???

Problem is, you've got people who cry "discrimination" whenever Middle Eastern Muslims are looked upon with suspicion or treated differently. So what can you do? You can't detain 'em because of their religious or political beliefs. You have to wait until they're caught actually doing something illegal. It's especially hard in terrorism hotspots like France and UK because they have so many of 'em who are citizens (over 5 million in France, over 3 million in the UK). It's impossible to follow them all around everywhere they go.

Really, it's up to the Muslim World to convince followers that killing innocent people isn't what Islam is about, and it's not what Allah wants. Most importantly, they need to know that being a suicide bomber doesn't guarantee them an eternity in Heaven or 40 virgins!!! Let them know there's no reward for what they've done.

Pokeno4Money said:

You have to wait until they're caught actually doing something illegal. It's especially hard in terrorism hotspots like France and UK because they have so many of 'em who are citizens (over 5 million in France, over 3 million in the UK). It's impossible to follow them all around everywhere they go.

Really, it's up to the Muslim World to convince followers that killing innocent people isn't what Islam is about, and it's not what Allah wants. Most importantly, they need to know that being a suicide bomber doesn't guarantee them an eternity in Heaven or 40 virgins!!! Let them know there's no reward for what they've done.

You can find out who they're meeting with, the ties they have to other extremists, who they're calling, where they're getting their money from, etc.

And it's not up to this "Muslim world" you speak of to convince anyone of anything. I didn't hear that when Timothy McVeigh blew up a few hundred people, including children in my hometown. Can anyone tell me, without looking it up, what his religion was? Anyone? Bueller? Hell, the U.S. goes and kills people every day in other countries, and chants "God bless America" through it all. Who's killing in whose name now, and who's convincing people otherwise? It's six of one.

Telling an extremist who is set on killing children that the whole 40 virgins thing is a ruse is an illogical argument. There is no reasoning here to begin with. Going in with one's proverbial legal pad full of notes isn't going to change anyone's mind that is acting insane. You can't convince someone who is insane of anything other than their reality. Reality is perception, and however someone perceives something is how they act and react in the world; they are walking through their reality. (Hell, Prince was a perfect example of someone having their own reality.) You tell a Christian there is no god, or tell an atheist there is one. Who wins the argument, and based on what? Each person believes what they believe. These folks are not up for a debate, they're up for action.

DaveT said:

Guitarhero said:

Waiting to hear from a friend who took his daughter to this concert Whats with some of the smily faces on some of these comments

Hope she's alright ...

... going to a concert to sing and dance with likeminded strangers is one of the best experiences you can have as a human on this planet. The thought of 22 people going to a show and not making it home again is heartbreaking. Some of the young folk at this show might not ever want to go to a show again after last night ... so sad

I honestly don't know what the pointless individuals who carry out these attacks think they are going to achieve. What has any of the attacks carried out in the last few years achieved? Absolutely nothing. Pointless evil people. The victims will be remembered, the perpetrator won't.

[Edited 5/23/17 2:09am]

Still no news, totally gutted. His wife is in a mess i don't know what to do.

[Edited 5/24/17 4:02am]

Guitarhero said:

kmama07 said:

Guitarhero said:

Still no news, totally gutted. His wife is in a mess i don't know what to do.

[Edited 5/24/17 4:02am]

Heartbreaking. I'm so sorry and hope everything turns out ok. As a parent I can't even imagine the anguish they are feeling.

Same here. For there to be no news after all this time, obviously not a good sign.

Prayers

TrivialPursuit said:

You can find out who they're meeting with, the ties they have to other extremists, who they're calling, where they're getting their money from, etc.

And it's not up to this "Muslim world" you speak of to convince anyone of anything. I didn't hear that when Timothy McVeigh blew up a few hundred people, including children in my hometown. Can anyone tell me, without looking it up, what his religion was? Anyone? Bueller? Hell, the U.S. goes and kills people every day in other countries, and chants "God bless America" through it all. Who's killing in whose name now, and who's convincing people otherwise? It's six of one.

Telling an extremist who is set on killing children that the whole 40 virgins thing is a ruse is an illogical argument. There is no reasoning here to begin with. Going in with one's proverbial legal pad full of notes isn't going to change anyone's mind that is acting insane. You can't convince someone who is insane of anything other than their reality. Reality is perception, and however someone perceives something is how they act and react in the world; they are walking through their reality. (Hell, Prince was a perfect example of someone having their own reality.) You tell a Christian there is no god, or tell an atheist there is one. Who wins the argument, and based on what? Each person believes what they believe. These folks are not up for a debate, they're up for action.

You're not being rational about this.

The dude was radicalized when he took trips to Libya, returning from one trip just days before the attack. You can't arrest someone just for going to another country. You can't shut down a mosque just because you *suspect* it's helping to fund jihadists. Until there's enough evidence of wrongdoing, or planned wrongdoing, you have to allow them the same rights as all other citizens. Look at all the crap Trump got for something as simple and logical as a temporary travel ban involving a handful of countries. And you expect every Muslim to be arrested or constantly watched/followed simply because they worship at a mosque or take trips to Muslim countries? Yeah, good luck with THAT!

McVeigh was a really poor analogy. He was a one-off attack, trying to cause a revolt against the government because of Waco and Ruby Ridge. Domestic terrorism wasn't a recurring issue before him, and hasn't been an issue since. He wasn't part of a demographic that includes 1.6 billion people worldwide. His actions had NOTHING to do with religion.

Oh yeah, I see where you're going with this now. "U.S. goes and kills people every day in other countries, and chants "God bless America" through it all. Who's killing in whose name now""

We know what kind of person compares America's targeting of terrorists overseas to that of terrorists who INTENTIONALLY TARGET INNOCENT CIVILIANS. You trying to say it's one and the same is all we need to know.

I'll still address your final paragraph, for the benefit of others. These terrorists weren't born thinking they need to blow themselves up so they can kill scores of innocent civilians. They didn't just wake up one day thinking that either. They ALL were brainwashed by others, ALL of them. Perhaps by a local imam, perhaps by friends or relatives, perhaps during trips to terrorist-populated countries, or perhaps through the internet. Do you ever wonder why "hate speech" is illegal in so many places? Because it spreads hate, and hate leads to violence!!! So rather than convince these mentally vulnerable Muslims to attack and kill innocent civilians, the 1.6 billion Muslims in the world - ESPECIALLY the imams - need to unite in spreading the message that violence is NOT what Islam is about. Because the ONLY people that these radical terrorists-in-making will listen to and follow are fellow Muslims, especially those Muslims who are in a position of power.

So to get back to your last paragraph, no I wouldn't expect a mentally vulnerable Muslim to listen to an atheist or a Christian ... but they would certainly listen to imams and billions of other Muslims. Which is exactly why the terrorism will never end UNLESS the Muslim World unites against the radicals. It's simple common sense.

Pokeno4Money said:

You're not being rational about this.

Oh yeah, I see where you're going with this now. "U.S. goes and kills people every day in other countries, and chants "God bless America" through it all. Who's killing in whose name now""

We know what kind of person compares America's targeting of terrorists overseas to that of terrorists who INTENTIONALLY TARGET INNOCENT CIVILIANS. You trying to say it's one and the same is all we need to know.

Chris Kyle is praised as some war hero, and he plainly said he shot whoever was in his crosshairs. He didn't care if it was a woman or a child. He's literally praised for killing a huge amount of people. So yeah, ask the people in Afghanistan or Iraq who the terrorists are, instead of assuming they're all the bad folks. Ask them who they fear.

And just because you disagree with someone, don't dismiss them as irrational. It doesn't make you look better. It makes you look desperate, and I thought we were having a decent conversation about terrorism. But maybe I was wrong.

Thanks guys please to tell you they are fine, police phoned his wife early tonight.

Guitarhero said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Chris Kyle is praised as some war hero, and he plainly said he shot whoever was in his crosshairs. He didn't care if it was a woman or a child. He's literally praised for killing a huge amount of people. So yeah, ask the people in Afghanistan or Iraq who the terrorists are, instead of assuming they're all the bad folks. Ask them who they fear.

And just because you disagree with someone, don't dismiss them as irrational. It doesn't make you look better. It makes you look desperate, and I thought we were having a decent conversation about terrorism. But maybe I was wrong.

That's all you got? I address, point by point, everything you wrote ... and all you do is bring up an American hero and legend and try to defame him with out-of-context verbage? Yeah, he killed a lot of people ... in order to SAVE a LOT MORE lives of good guys and innocent civilians, like when he shot the woman who was about to detonate a grenade.

You're irrational not because you disagree with me, you're irrational because what you write doesn't make sense and is literally and unequivocally false. You are using a thread about murdered children for the purpose of advancing your anti-American views, that's wrong on so many levels. Trying to blame this bombing on the US government? Sickening.

Guitarhero said:

Beautifully fitting cover on the Manchester Evening News ... can't think of a more appropriate song ... Take me out tonight, where there's music and there's people, and they're young and alive

Pokeno4Money said:

That's all you got? [snip]

It's a delusion to think that being anti-government is the same as being anti-American. It's a typical shrink-wrapped patriotism of the brain in a red, white, and blue package. People can't think for themselves that way. Even Prince knew that.

When you don't understand your alleged enemy (one created by the U.S. government, by the way and they're only an enemy because they stopped being puppets for the U.S.), you will always lose the fight.

But hey, maybe you can just talk sense with them over a tea and hummus or something. Kumbaya.

TrivialPursuit said:

It's a delusion to think that being anti-government is the same as being anti-American. It's a typical shrink-wrapped patriotism of the brain in a red, white, and blue package. People can't think for themselves that way. Even Prince knew that.

When you don't understand your alleged enemy (one created by the U.S. government, by the way and they're only an enemy because they stopped being puppets for the U.S.), you will always lose the fight.

But hey, maybe you can just talk sense with them over a tea and hummus or something. Kumbaya.

Where did I say you're anti-American? That's besides the point anyway.

Point is, it's not right to politicize a tragedy like this and use it to further your anti-government agenda.

Created Islamic terrorists? Are you freakin' kidding me? Religious fanatics have been in existence for thousands of years. Fighting in the Middle East has been going on just as long. This has nothing to do with politics, it has to do with Islamic fanatics who want to convert the world to Islam and Sharia law, and are willing to kill thousands of innocent civilians in order to achieve that goal.

For you to support them by saying the government is at fault? Sickening.

Very classy and mature response to this tragedy.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/0...anchester/

Ariana Grande announces Manchester benefit concert

Who are the victims of th...or attack?

I'm glad she's headed back & doing a benefit concert. Shows pull in a lot of money anyway (compared to album sales these days). So proceeds will surely be helpful to families for burials, counseling, or medical costs.

kmama07 said:

Guitarhero said:

Thanks guys please to tell you they are fine, police phoned his wife early tonight.

So glad to hear it

Thank you.

DaveT said:

Guitarhero said:

Thanks guys please to tell you they are fine, police phoned his wife early tonight.

Thats good news dude ... and there's not been much of that this week.

Thanks Dave.

TrivialPursuit said:

I'm glad she's headed back & doing a benefit concert. Shows pull in a lot of money anyway (compared to album sales these days). So proceeds will surely be helpful to families for burials, counseling, or medical costs.

Further details of the benefit concert have been announced, it's happening June 4th and several other stars are expected to participate. Location is one of the three other Manchester venues, and all proceeds going to those impacted by the bombing.

http://pagesix.com/2017/0...t-concert/

06/02/2017


ABC is set to air Ariana Grande’s benefit concert, dubbed One Love Manchester, on Sunday in the U.S.

The live event, which will be held for the victims of the Manchester attack and their families, will feature pop stars such as Justin Bieber, Katy Perry, Coldplay, Usher, Miley Cyrus and Pharrell. One Direction’s Niall Horan and Brit pop group Take That are also expected to perform.

It will broadcast live on BBC TV and radio with all proceeds going to the We Love Manchester emergency fund.

U.S. viewers can tune into the concert following Game 2 of the NBA Finals, and it will be available also on Freeform live.

The concert, which sold out in a record six minutes, will start on Sunday at 7pm UK time/2pm ET time.

https://goo.gl/cfI3OO

[Edited 6/2/17 6:40am]