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Thread started 05/18/17 8:27am

HAPPYPERSON

Miss Jackson, If you’re Nasty: The Erasure of Janet Jackson as a Cultural Force

02-janet-jackson-unbreakable.w750.h560.2x.jpg?resize=1400%2C400

Janet Damita Jo Jackson is a supernova who undoubtedly changed the American musical landscape in the 1980s. A reflection of her time, she was the prototype of American female pop stars. Everyone, from Britney Spears to Aaliyah to Ciara. Often overshadowed by her brother’s talent, Janet is a force in her own right. She has a career of over 30 years which credits her acting, dancing, and singing abilities. However, after her last appearance in 2004 alongside with Justin Timberlake, she has been cast aside for a wardrobe malfunction. Janet’s a complicated figure often retreating to privacy and seen in high profile scandals. In this essay, I talk about her influence affecting aesthetics/crossover appeal now, though she is no longer prominent in the public eye.

She recently was in the headlines for giving birth to a son, and even more recently for divorcing her billionaire husband. Other than that, Janet is elusive but her influence is undeniable. It should be noted that within this is the examination of people who push the envelope. Janet, though she never verbally claimed the identity, fits the mold. I will be talking about Black music’s forgotten legend.

When you think of Janet Jackson, you probably think many things. Ms. Jackson is a powerhouse. That is neither an understatement or a lazy compliment. Many over the years have tried to duplicate the cultural impact of Ms. Jackson but have countlessly failed. We know that in an industry as fickle as the music business, Black excellence is always penalized to uplift white mediocrity. Unfortunately, Janet fell prey to this defamation during her Superbowl appearance with Justin Timberlake. This battered part of her staying power. I am writing this essay to examine the totality of Ms. Jackson’s discography, however, I will spare my feelings on any scandals pinned against her. This essay will look at Jackson in 3 ways examining her independence, sexuality, and legacy.

janet_gif.gif?resize=628%2C348

My earliest memory of Janet Jackson was the Neo-Asiatic video for “If,” the red hued video backed by thundering drums and hypnotic choreography. My clearest memory was of Janet in her Velvet Rope era in the late 1990s. I remember the dark R&B track played throughout my home. I remember my mom and aunt watching the velvet rope tour on HBO. I found Janet to be cool, funky, and stylish. I remember her wide grin in the “Go Deep” video where she crashed a house party of a teenager or even the sultry I get so lonely video with Blackstreet. As far as I remember, Janet was always a trendsetter. As I have gotten older, as both a pop media critic and music consumer, I have grown to really appreciate her independence. Both in her personal life and creative content. Janet has laid the groundwork for many female solo artists including Ciara, Britney, & Aaliyah. Her breakout album, Control, released February 1986 at the tender age of 19 solidified her voice in the music industry where she lived in her famous family’s shadow. Her album blended, pop, new jack swing, and dance over 9 songs. 7 of 9 tracks became singles, gathering many awards for its artistic statement. She talked about asserting herself as an artist, making decisions about love, and not living in her older brother’s shadow. This set the tone for similar themes in her next few albums; as Janet grew as an artist we also saw her grow into her confidence. She has always been sexy, sultry, playful, and even coy at times. Her style has evolved from each era going from the teased hair and all black ensemble to today’s black sleek look with tousled hair. Her image is timeless, often seen in the ranks of Tumblr with box braids making a fervent comeback to some of the carefree black girl aesthetics seen in the Velvet Rope era. Janet’s discography expands 11 albums, she’s toured internationally, & garnered multiple awards. Her artistic craft over the years has had success over multiple platforms appearing in movies like Poetic Justice, The Nutty Professor, & Why Did I get married? Stylistically, Janet is a chameleon not afraid to push the envelope.

One thing about Janet that I love unpacking is her sexuality.

While Janet’s sexuality has always been a part of the discography, it was once prominent but has most recently been subdued in her newer works. There are 3 albums that stand out to me. The first is 1986’s Control. Janet is clapping back about sexism and is also talking about healthy relationships. Prior to this, there were no mentions of sexual or romantic relationships with her bubble gum image. In tracks like “Nasty” where she talks about how she wants to be addressed. In “Let’s Wait Awhile” she is telling her suitor that she wants to wait before they get intimate. The last track, “Funny How Time Flies,” is a sultry song where Janet tells her audience how easy it is to lose track of time when getting intimate.

janet-jackson-control-30-years.jpg?resize=388%2C388

The next album that displayed a phase in Janet’s career path is her follow up to Rhythm Nation 1814, is her self-titled album. The cover was provocative and many of the tracks dealt with her understanding her sexuality as a grown woman. Janet faced a lot of pushback initially but still scored hits with tracks like “Again”, “Anytime, Any Place”, and “If”. The album was 28 tracks and had a total of 9 singles all dealing with the more sexually mature subject matter. The three aforementioned singles had videos that displayed Janet’s new found comfort with her sexuality. “If” was a futuristic, Asian-inspired dance track about voyeurism. “Anytime, Anyplace” was a track dedicated being any exhibitionist in sexual matters. “Again” was being unsure about an old flame and deciding whether to rekindle that flame again.

janet.-janet-jackson.jpg?resize=320%2C434

The 3rd album I’ll be examining is 1997’s The Velvet Rope. The record is considered Janet’s darkest and most reflective album. She talks about BDSM, masturbation, and sexual expression. The videography matched the deeply romantic mood, with videos like “I Get Lonely,” longing for a love lost in the Afrocentric “Got Till it’s Gone,” “Go Deep,” a song about guaranteed satisfaction accompanied by a video out of a house party that goes haywire. Janet has more albums/singles that reflect her sexuality but I felt these were the most notable.

janet_velvetrope.jpg?resize=305%2C305

Janet and her legacy still continue, after many admirable achievements. This fall she’ll be touring the US and overseas, continuing her Unbreakable tour, which is the eighth tour she has embarked on.

janet_dammn_baby_7.gif?resize=500%2C207

Unfortunately, this makes her one of the last living black legends after countless headliners fell victim to multiple ailments. Ms. Jackson has achieved worldwide record sales of more than 100 million, over a span of more than 30 years, making her one of the best-selling music artists of all time. She has attained 10 Hot 100 number-one singles, 14 Hot R&B number-one singles, and 16 Hot Dance/Club Play number one singles She also has a career high of 27 top 10 hits on the Hot 100, 27 top 10 hits on the Hot R&B chart, and 29 top 10 hits on the Hot Dance/Club Play chart.[2] She is the first and only artist in history to produce seven top five hits from one album, Janet Jackson’s Rhythm Nation 1814. She has a total of eleven albums, several world tours, two of which have been broadcasted on HBO. She has been in prominent television and film roles, solidifying her as a noteworthy actress. Though an elusive figure, she has influenced contemporary hit makers Britney, Ciara, and Aaliyah. Yet none seem to ever shift and shape like Janet. Janet has been able to carry several personas: everything from naive, Afro-futuristic femme, dominatrix, and playful woman. Her personal choices have always flattered, whether she’s donned braids, extensions, or a close crop. Down to choreography, to style choices, and musical selection. Everyone from Korean pop star BoA to Christina Aguilera has cited Janet’s impact. Her work has constantly been referenced by other artists, For example, Kendrick Lamar’s “Poetic Justice” samples “Any Time, Any Place” and even references one of Janet’s most popular films by name. On YouTube, there are several makeup/beauty gurus that try to reproduce some of Janet’s most iconic looks. Though she is similar in some ways to her older brother, Michael, to say that she isn’t her own artist is criminal. Ms. Jackson’s legacy is one of resilience and vitality. The reason Janet, though culturally known, is not as highly regarded as she should be is because of white mediocrity. Without going into any long winded conspiracies, Black women who are innovative are seen as a threat. Janet is the blueprint and shouldn’t be forgotten. Ms. Jackson is a powerhouse. That is neither an understatement nor a lazy compliment.

http://weareblkboard.com/miss-jackson-if-youre-nasty-the-erasure-of-janet-jackson-as-a-cultural-force/

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Reply #1 posted 05/18/17 4:03pm

CharismaDove

Oh ffs, no ones erasing anything. People DO move on and Janet hasn't had a hit in a while. Nothing wrong with that. No one was really talking about Michael, Whitney Prince & GMs legacies all that much either till they died. Janet fans need to stop being so melodramatic, it just makes it worse for her. She don't got shit to prove now let's cut down on these bi-weekly JJ legacy/'blacklisted' threads.
I guess you know me well, I dont like winter, but I seem to get a kick outta doing you cold
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Reply #2 posted 05/18/17 4:44pm

mnbvc

I don't think of this "erasure" means much. The fact is that her albums have proven to be highly influential on the next generation and has been noted by music critics as such. The fact that her less heralded All For You album is more influential than any Beyonce, Rihanna, Britney, Christina or Lady Gaga album ever will be already means her legacy can't be erased.

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Reply #3 posted 05/18/17 5:28pm

Goddess4Real

avatar

Thanks, very interesting article nod

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #4 posted 05/19/17 8:51am

mjscarousal

avatar

CharismaDove said:

Oh ffs, no ones erasing anything. People DO move on and Janet hasn't had a hit in a while. Nothing wrong with that. No one was really talking about Michael, Whitney Prince & GMs legacies all that much either till they died. Janet fans need to stop being so melodramatic, it just makes it worse for her. She don't got shit to prove now let's cut down on these bi-weekly JJ legacy/'blacklisted' threads.

This is not true. The media was always comparing them to the current crop of artists by saying so and so is the new " MJ or Prince" and always noting their influence on the new generation of stars.

Stand, you`ve been sitting much too long, there`s a permanent crease in your right or wrong.~Sly Stone
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Reply #5 posted 05/19/17 1:35pm

Dasein

What does Janet Jackson have to offer our society in the way of affecting change within it that she
ought to remain as a cultural force in any capacity other than you just really, really, really liking her?

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Reply #6 posted 05/20/17 7:15am

thedoorkeeper

mnbvc said:

The fact that her less heralded All For You album is more influential than any Beyonce, Rihanna, Britney, Christina or Lady Gaga album ever will be already means her legacy can't be erased.


Is this really a "fact"?
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Reply #7 posted 05/20/17 7:30am

heathilly

I dont get the sense that shes being erased from history. Its more of a matter that she was a female pop star who made pop rnb music and was the sister of michael jackson. None of those three things are really heralded by critics so she has three things against her really plus shes older and she sold her self as a sex symbol. And women sex symbol arnt alowed to age. And shes not bigger than her brother or madonna ( her closest female comparsion) so she cant command respect by sheer sales because she isnt number 1 in any regard. Also her level of talent isnt anything to write home about. But I will say she was wrongly blackballed after the superbowl.

[Edited 5/20/17 7:32am]

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Reply #8 posted 05/20/17 8:46am

Scorp

Dasein said:

What does Janet Jackson have to offer our society in the way of affecting change within it that she
ought to remain as a cultural force in any capacity other than you just really, really, really liking her?




She offered one of the all time, especially for a female artist arguably the all time social commentary album in 1989 with Rhythm Nation 1814

That album changed people's lives for the better
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Reply #9 posted 05/20/17 12:32pm

Dasein

Scorp said:

Dasein said:

What does Janet Jackson have to offer our society in the way of affecting change within it that she
ought to remain as a cultural force in any capacity other than you just really, really, really liking her?

She offered one of the all time, especially for a female artist arguably the all time social commentary album in 1989 with Rhythm Nation 1814 That album changed people's lives for the better


This is an opinion dressed up and presented as if it is a fact. And yet, there are countless female
recording artists who release albums for the general public that feature social commentary. I'm
thinking of one Nina Simone right now. She just wasn't selling sex in addition to be as popular as
Janet Jackson - let's be real. And how hard is it to be cute with breasts and a vagina and sell the

idea of men having sex with you? So, the fact that Janet Jackson addressed (or, exploited) her sex-
uality is hardly worth mentioning, if you ask me.

But we shouldn't try to act like there has been documented research that proves Rhythm Nation had
a lasting and life-changing impact on {insert number here of} listeners' lives that we ought to bemoan
the fact that she's no longer as popular as HappyPerson wants her to be. Besides, Pinkerton changed
my life for the better, but you don't see me in here making Rivers Cuomo threads every week!

wink


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Reply #10 posted 05/20/17 1:10pm

Scorp

Dasein said:



Scorp said:


Dasein said:

What does Janet Jackson have to offer our society in the way of affecting change within it that she
ought to remain as a cultural force in any capacity other than you just really, really, really liking her?



She offered one of the all time, especially for a female artist arguably the all time social commentary album in 1989 with Rhythm Nation 1814 That album changed people's lives for the better


This is an opinion dressed up and presented as if it is a fact. And yet, there are countless female
recording artists who release albums for the general public that feature social commentary. I'm
thinking of one Nina Simone right now. She just wasn't selling sex in addition to be as popular as
Janet Jackson - let's be real. And how hard is it to be cute with breasts and a vagina and sell the


idea of men having sex with you? So, the fact that Janet Jackson addressed (or, exploited) her sex-
uality is hardly worth mentioning, if you ask me.

But we shouldn't try to act like there has been documented research that proves Rhythm Nation had
a lasting and life-changing impact on {insert number here of} listeners' lives that we ought to bemoan
the fact that she's no longer as popular as HappyPerson wants her to be. Besides, Pinkerton changed
my life for the better, but you don't see me in here making Rivers Cuomo threads every week!

wink





That aint mo opimiom, I saw it and experienced it as it happened


Im referring to the Rhythm Nation album


And during the actual time that album was out. There is commentary given of that album's impact uploaded on YouTube


Commentary by a number of women saying the message from that album gave then the inspiration to turn their life for the better


That would be hard to believe in today's music climate
[Edited 5/20/17 13:34pm]
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Reply #11 posted 05/20/17 3:31pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

avatar

.

[Edited 5/20/17 15:32pm]

"Musically way ahead of any of us" - Elton John on P

"I am a dyed-in-the-wool Englishman!" - Mozart (EU hater)


If most of the vault is like 'OLD FRIENDS 4 SALE' (8/10) prepare to be amazed, if it's more like NPG CLUB albums then don't expect much
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Reply #12 posted 05/21/17 8:24am

mnbvc

thedoorkeeper said:

mnbvc said:

The fact that her less heralded All For You album is more influential than any Beyonce, Rihanna, Britney, Christina or Lady Gaga album ever will be already means her legacy can't be erased.

Is this really a "fact"?

It does seem now that the album has been very influential on the next generation:

Entertainment journalist Kelley L. Carter regarded it among "the most influential albums to be released since 2000," declaring it "set the tone for much of what we’re hearing on the radio from current female pop stars. Anything Rihanna, Beyoncé and Britney are doing right now, was heard on this album." Its fusion of "old-school pop sounds" with rhythmic influences are thought to be frequently emulated; adding "She sang about female empowerment, even though hers is a voice that is lightweight, and it demanded that you take listen to it."

The "funkier and hipper" style of Britney Spears' third album Britney was thought to emulate All for You with "reasonable success" in multiple songs. Spears' song "Anticipating" was considered to be directly influenced by the album's title track. Two singles from the album, "I'm a Slave 4 U" and "Boys," were originally written and produced for All for You; the latter also recorded by Jackson. Spears also recorded another unreleased Jackson song titled "My Big Secret" for her fourth album, In the Zone, though it did not make the final release. Spears' single "Toxic" drew comparisons to Jackson's "Trust a Try," using similar production elements. Several years later, Spears was reported to request the album during photoshoots. Kylie Minogue's "Sexy Love," from her twelfth studio album Kiss Me Once, was considered to bear "more than a passing resemblance" to "All for You" in its "straight-up, discotastic" nature. The upbeat riffs and vocals of Katy Perry's single "Birthday" were also thought to evoke Jackson from the All for You era. Korean singer BoA sampled Jackson's vocals from "You Ain't Right," in which Jackson whispers "Good evening, ladies and gentleman," throughout her single "Rock With You." Pop singer LIZ, signed to Diplo's Mad Decent label, stated, "I kind of gravitate towards the gloss on this album. 'Doesn't Really Matter', 'Someone to Call My Lover', 'All For You' are all bonafide smashes. Not only that, but they make you feel GREAT. I hope to write timeless songs like this one day." The composition of Beyoncé's fifth album Beyoncé was regarded as partially based on All for You, in addition to her previous album The Velvet Rope.


Rihanna's fifth studio album Loud and single "Only Girl (In the World)" drew several comparisons to All for You, with critics noting its sonic transition to an upbeat dance sound from prior release Rated R in a similar vein to Jackson's contrast from the darker tone of The Velvet Rope. Eric Henderson of Slant Magazine stated, "like Janet's album, Loud is a step away from its über-personal, melodrama-drenched predecessor." Throughout the campaign, Rihanna also evoked Jackson's Velvet Rope era imagery. Ne-Yo's "Say It" was thought to resemble the album's sensual ballads. Record producer Rockwilder revealed Jackson to be his first pop collaboration and an essential part of his career, leading him to work with Christina Aguilera for the singles "Lady Marmalade" and "Dirrty." Rolling Stone likened the production of Aaliyah's self-titled third album to the record. Sal Cinquemani of Slant observed several songs on Usher's 8701 to recall "bona fide Janet Jackson tracks" similar to the album. Christina Milian's debut album was considered to be heavily influenced by the album. The sensual content and interludes of Missy Elliott's This Is Not a Test! also drew comparisons to the album's exploration of similar themes. Following All for You being reissued with a Parental Advisory warning and clean edition, Jennifer Lopez's sophomore album J.Lo received a similar treatment by Epic Records, thought to be influenced by Jackson's decision after media emphasis was placed on its explicit language and content. Several months after the album's release, teen pop group No Secrets recorded a song titled "Janet," citing her
as their primary influence. In 2012, French musician Canblaster cited "Better Days" as a song which evokes happiness during personal distress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_for_You_(Janet_Jackson_album)

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Reply #13 posted 05/21/17 9:33am

purplethunder3
121

avatar

mjscarousal said:

CharismaDove said:

Oh ffs, no ones erasing anything. People DO move on and Janet hasn't had a hit in a while. Nothing wrong with that. No one was really talking about Michael, Whitney Prince & GMs legacies all that much either till they died. Janet fans need to stop being so melodramatic, it just makes it worse for her. She don't got shit to prove now let's cut down on these bi-weekly JJ legacy/'blacklisted' threads.

This is not true. The media was always comparing them to the current crop of artists by saying so and so is the new " MJ or Prince" and always noting their influence on the new generation of stars.

The fact is Janet doesn't have to prove anything anymore.

nothing's forbidden... and nothing's taboo.
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Reply #14 posted 05/21/17 10:48am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

A cultural force? Really??

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
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Reply #15 posted 05/21/17 2:01pm

Dasein

Scorp said:

Dasein said:


This is an opinion dressed up and presented as if it is a fact. And yet, there are countless female
recording artists who release albums for the general public that feature social commentary. I'm
thinking of one Nina Simone right now. She just wasn't selling sex in addition to be as popular as
Janet Jackson - let's be real. And how hard is it to be cute with breasts and a vagina and sell the

idea of men having sex with you? So, the fact that Janet Jackson addressed (or, exploited) her sex-
uality is hardly worth mentioning, if you ask me.

But we shouldn't try to act like there has been documented research that proves Rhythm Nation had
a lasting and life-changing impact on {insert number here of} listeners' lives that we ought to bemoan
the fact that she's no longer as popular as HappyPerson wants her to be. Besides, Pinkerton changed
my life for the better, but you don't see me in here making Rivers Cuomo threads every week!

wink


That aint mo opimiom, I saw it and experienced it as it happened Im referring to the Rhythm Nation album And during the actual time that album was out. There is commentary given of that album's impact uploaded on YouTube Commentary by a number of women saying the message from that album gave then the inspiration to turn their life for the better That would be hard to believe in today's music climate [Edited 5/20/17 13:34pm]


Okay, cool.

But there are hundreds of thousands of albums that change people's lives for the better every single
day of the week. What makes Janet Jackson such hawt shit for having one of those albums?

At some point, this board will have to remove the Janet Jackson teat . . . my lord, y'all are in here
trippin'. Janet Jackson is on the outskirts of pop stardom and rightfully so: she's old and because
she was moderately talented without anything that marked it as being original or unique or ovarinal/
seminal, the tastemakers have all decided that her time is up and she ought to sit her old ass down

somewhere and get a house-residency like Celine Dion and shut up; and her minions too.


wink

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Reply #16 posted 05/21/17 2:54pm

Scorp

Dasein said:



Scorp said:


Dasein said:



This is an opinion dressed up and presented as if it is a fact. And yet, there are countless female
recording artists who release albums for the general public that feature social commentary. I'm
thinking of one Nina Simone right now. She just wasn't selling sex in addition to be as popular as
Janet Jackson - let's be real. And how hard is it to be cute with breasts and a vagina and sell the


idea of men having sex with you? So, the fact that Janet Jackson addressed (or, exploited) her sex-
uality is hardly worth mentioning, if you ask me.

But we shouldn't try to act like there has been documented research that proves Rhythm Nation had
a lasting and life-changing impact on {insert number here of} listeners' lives that we ought to bemoan
the fact that she's no longer as popular as HappyPerson wants her to be. Besides, Pinkerton changed
my life for the better, but you don't see me in here making Rivers Cuomo threads every week!

wink




That aint mo opimiom, I saw it and experienced it as it happened Im referring to the Rhythm Nation album And during the actual time that album was out. There is commentary given of that album's impact uploaded on YouTube Commentary by a number of women saying the message from that album gave then the inspiration to turn their life for the better That would be hard to believe in today's music climate [Edited 5/20/17 13:34pm]


Okay, cool.

But there are hundreds of thousands of albums that change people's lives for the better every single
day of the week. What makes Janet Jackson such hawt shit for having one of those albums?

At some point, this board will have to remove the Janet Jackson teat . . . my lord, y'all are in here
trippin'. Janet Jackson is on the outskirts of pop stardom and rightfully so: she's old and because
she was moderately talented without anything that marked it as being original or unique or ovarinal/
seminal, the tastemakers have all decided that her time is up and she ought to sit her old ass down


somewhere and get a house-residency like Celine Dion and shut up; and her minions too.


wink






The industry has changed and is suffering from a horrible case of ageism, because when u hit your 30, mid 30s, especially if you're a female, you're already being phased out



Rewind back the clock to 1984, Tina Turner was 45 and sold 12-14 million copies worldwide of her album Private Dancer


In today's music industry she would have never been given that opportunity at that age


And I wouldn't mock older people, because everyone will grow old one day, and thats if we're lucky to reach that mark
[Edited 5/21/17 15:07pm]
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Reply #17 posted 05/21/17 2:54pm

mnbvc

Dasein said:

Scorp said:

Dasein said: That aint mo opimiom, I saw it and experienced it as it happened Im referring to the Rhythm Nation album And during the actual time that album was out. There is commentary given of that album's impact uploaded on YouTube Commentary by a number of women saying the message from that album gave then the inspiration to turn their life for the better That would be hard to believe in today's music climate [Edited 5/20/17 13:34pm]


Okay, cool.

But there are hundreds of thousands of albums that change people's lives for the better every single
day of the week. What makes Janet Jackson such hawt shit for having one of those albums?

At some point, this board will have to remove the Janet Jackson teat . . . my lord, y'all are in here
trippin'. Janet Jackson is on the outskirts of pop stardom and rightfully so: she's old and because
she was moderately talented without anything that marked it as being original or unique or ovarinal/
seminal, the tastemakers have all decided that her time is up and she ought to sit her old ass down

somewhere and get a house-residency like Celine Dion and shut up; and her minions too.


wink

Shouldn't this analysis also suggest that most of the moderately talented Madonna's success is due to the creation of MTV? Without music videos Madonna would have never become a superstar in the same vein as Michael Jackson, Prince, Whitney Houston or George Michael because her "best" performances from her biggest decade don't emit talent to any extent that the aforementioned four do in the 1980s, specifically. And it sure seems that people like David Bowie and Grace Jones Donna Summer etc... had already done what Madonna was known for doing without being afforded MTV.

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Reply #18 posted 05/21/17 9:32pm

Goddess4Real

avatar

Scorp said:

Dasein said:


Okay, cool.

But there are hundreds of thousands of albums that change people's lives for the better every single
day of the week. What makes Janet Jackson such hawt shit for having one of those albums?

At some point, this board will have to remove the Janet Jackson teat . . . my lord, y'all are in here
trippin'. Janet Jackson is on the outskirts of pop stardom and rightfully so: she's old and because
she was moderately talented without anything that marked it as being original or unique or ovarinal/
seminal, the tastemakers have all decided that her time is up and she ought to sit her old ass down

somewhere and get a house-residency like Celine Dion and shut up; and her minions too.


wink

The industry has changed and is suffering from a horrible case of ageism, because when u hit your 30, mid 30s, especially if you're a female, you're already being phased out Rewind back the clock to 1984, Tina Turner was 45 and sold 12-14 million copies worldwide of her album Private Dancer In today's music industry she would have never been given that opportunity at that age And I wouldn't mock older people, because everyone will grow old one day, and thats if we're lucky to reach that mark [Edited 5/21/17 15:07pm]

yeahthat

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #19 posted 05/21/17 9:53pm

purplethunder3
121

avatar

Goddess4Real said:

Scorp said:

Dasein said: The industry has changed and is suffering from a horrible case of ageism, because when u hit your 30, mid 30s, especially if you're a female, you're already being phased out Rewind back the clock to 1984, Tina Turner was 45 and sold 12-14 million copies worldwide of her album Private Dancer In today's music industry she would have never been given that opportunity at that age And I wouldn't mock older people, because everyone will grow old one day, and thats if we're lucky to reach that mark [Edited 5/21/17 15:07pm]

yeahthat

I totally agree. Ageism is more prevalent than ever before...not only in the music industry but in every other work-related segment of this society. It shows how little we have progressed in too many areas. For the first time in my life, I am being faced with that ageism. And it is worse for women than men. A few years ago, it wasn't even on my radar...

nothing's forbidden... and nothing's taboo.
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Reply #20 posted 05/22/17 5:23am

Adorecream

avatar

Always liked and been aware of Miss Jackson, but have really got into her by buying the Best 2CD set which at least covers everything up to All for you in some depth and I have a copy of RN1814 as well.

.

First of all, her music is really air friendly and she has a great voice, perfect beats and snare drums that grab u and make u dance. Also the sound to me is very Minneapolis with Jam and Lewis and that Prince feel. The sexual themes in most of her albums also remind me a lot of Prince, so its not surprising that she gets so much love in the Prince community.

.

I seem to be playing her an awful lot lately. Currently my favourite track is 1987's Diamonds her duet with Herb Alpert and the video with Jerome squawking around is hilarious. Alpert still has his 1979 Rise era afro, although somewhat smaller.

.

Keep up with the essays, especially with Velvet Rope, as its a great album and yet did well considering it was following on from Janet, her biggest album ever.

Sign o the Times - 30 years old this month.
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Reply #21 posted 05/22/17 7:29am

mjscarousal

avatar

mnbvc said:

Dasein said:


Okay, cool.

But there are hundreds of thousands of albums that change people's lives for the better every single
day of the week. What makes Janet Jackson such hawt shit for having one of those albums?

At some point, this board will have to remove the Janet Jackson teat . . . my lord, y'all are in here
trippin'. Janet Jackson is on the outskirts of pop stardom and rightfully so: she's old and because
she was moderately talented without anything that marked it as being original or unique or ovarinal/
seminal, the tastemakers have all decided that her time is up and she ought to sit her old ass down

somewhere and get a house-residency like Celine Dion and shut up; and her minions too.


wink

Shouldn't this analysis also suggest that most of the moderately talented Madonna's success is due to the creation of MTV? Without music videos Madonna would have never become a superstar in the same vein as Michael Jackson, Prince, Whitney Houston or George Michael because her "best" performances from her biggest decade don't emit talent to any extent that the aforementioned four do in the 1980s, specifically. And it sure seems that people like David Bowie and Grace Jones Donna Summer etc... had already done what Madonna was known for doing without being afforded MTV.

Excellent post. I like and respect Madonna and while I do think she is talented, she was never as raw talented as her peers (MJ, Prince, Whitney) and I doubt she would have been successful without MTV.

Back to Janet, Janet doesn't preserve and defend her own legacy as she should. Its but so much feeling sorry for Janet one can do when Janet herself doesn't seem to care. Although she was and is black balled, she has contributed just as much to her current predicament imo. Its frutrasting as a fan to watch her give up on her legacy.

[Edited 5/22/17 7:32am]

Stand, you`ve been sitting much too long, there`s a permanent crease in your right or wrong.~Sly Stone
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Reply #22 posted 05/22/17 9:07am

Dasein

mnbvc said:

Dasein said:


Okay, cool.

But there are hundreds of thousands of albums that change people's lives for the better every single
day of the week. What makes Janet Jackson such hawt shit for having one of those albums?

At some point, this board will have to remove the Janet Jackson teat . . . my lord, y'all are in here
trippin'. Janet Jackson is on the outskirts of pop stardom and rightfully so: she's old and because
she was moderately talented without anything that marked it as being original or unique or ovarinal/
seminal, the tastemakers have all decided that her time is up and she ought to sit her old ass down

somewhere and get a house-residency like Celine Dion and shut up; and her minions too.


wink

Shouldn't this analysis also suggest that most of the moderately talented Madonna's success is due to the creation of MTV? Without music videos Madonna would have never become a superstar in the same vein as Michael Jackson, Prince, Whitney Houston or George Michael because her "best" performances from her biggest decade don't emit talent to any extent that the aforementioned four do in the 1980s, specifically. And it sure seems that people like David Bowie and Grace Jones Donna Summer etc... had already done what Madonna was known for doing without being afforded MTV.


Yeah, but if you take your MTV argument and apply it to MJ, Prince, et. al., the same could be said
about their rise in stardom too, despite being enormously talented. The fact remains: Janet Jackson
was never a cultural force on and doesn't possess the talent and/or body of work to persist as such
after her decade or so of excellence (1985 - 1995).

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Reply #23 posted 05/22/17 9:19am

Dasein

mjscarousal said:

mnbvc said:

Shouldn't this analysis also suggest that most of the moderately talented Madonna's success is due to the creation of MTV? Without music videos Madonna would have never become a superstar in the same vein as Michael Jackson, Prince, Whitney Houston or George Michael because her "best" performances from her biggest decade don't emit talent to any extent that the aforementioned four do in the 1980s, specifically. And it sure seems that people like David Bowie and Grace Jones Donna Summer etc... had already done what Madonna was known for doing without being afforded MTV.

Excellent post. I like and respect Madonna and while I do think she is talented, she was never as raw talented as her peers (MJ, Prince, Whitney) and I doubt she would have been successful without MTV.

Back to Janet, Janet doesn't preserve and defend her own legacy as she should. Its but so much feeling sorry for Janet one can do when Janet herself doesn't seem to care. Although she was and is black balled, she has contributed just as much to her current predicament imo. Its frutrasting as a fan to watch her give up on her legacy.

[Edited 5/22/17 7:32am]


How is Janet Jackson giving up on her legacy? What does that even mean?

And, I have not seen any evidence that she was black balled by the recording industry for her goofy
wardrobe malfuntion. I seriously doubt such an event is sufficient for suits and head honchos to act-
ively conspire to prevent her from embarking upon a career. I think it makes her fans feel better to
frame her (inevitable) decline in popularity as a result of being sabotaged by the industry as opposed
to viewing it perspicaciously. But, if we are to place her within a pop context where aging stars out is
the norm, then
in 2004, she was already ten years past her prime.

Do you JJ fans here me? Janet Jackson is old and a mediocre talent. She is not being erased as a
cultural force. Our society has decided to move on from her because she is old and doesn't possess a
talent that produces innovative art to keep her afloat within our pop consciousness!

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Reply #24 posted 05/22/17 9:21am

purplethunder3
121

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rolleyes

nothing's forbidden... and nothing's taboo.
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Reply #25 posted 05/22/17 9:46am

Dasein

purplethunder3121 said:

rolleyes


Remove the teat and you'll be okay . . .

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Reply #26 posted 05/22/17 5:03pm

SoulAlive

mnbvc said:



Dasein said:




Scorp said:


Dasein said: That aint mo opimiom, I saw it and experienced it as it happened Im referring to the Rhythm Nation album And during the actual time that album was out. There is commentary given of that album's impact uploaded on YouTube Commentary by a number of women saying the message from that album gave then the inspiration to turn their life for the better That would be hard to believe in today's music climate [Edited 5/20/17 13:34pm]


Okay, cool.

But there are hundreds of thousands of albums that change people's lives for the better every single
day of the week. What makes Janet Jackson such hawt shit for having one of those albums?

At some point, this board will have to remove the Janet Jackson teat . . . my lord, y'all are in here
trippin'. Janet Jackson is on the outskirts of pop stardom and rightfully so: she's old and because
she was moderately talented without anything that marked it as being original or unique or ovarinal/
seminal, the tastemakers have all decided that her time is up and she ought to sit her old ass down


somewhere and get a house-residency like Celine Dion and shut up; and her minions too.


wink



Shouldn't this analysis also suggest that most of the moderately talented Madonna's success is due to the creation of MTV? Without music videos Madonna would have never become a superstar in the same vein as Michael Jackson, Prince, Whitney Houston or George Michael because her "best" performances from her biggest decade don't emit talent to any extent that the aforementioned four do in the 1980s, specifically. And it sure seems that people like David Bowie and Grace Jones Donna Summer etc... had already done what Madonna was known for doing without being afforded MTV.



Music videos helped *every* artist in the 80s,not just Madonna biggrin it helped them all reach the widest audience possible,which meant more record sales.Would MJ's Thriller had made the same impact without the amazing music videos and the support of MTV? Same for Prince and Purple Rain.
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Reply #27 posted 05/22/17 5:38pm

MickyDolenz

https://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3f09bSUpT1qfw2dno1_500.gif

It's called show business for a reason. It’s 90% business and 10% show. If you don’t know your business, you’re in trouble! ~ Johnnie Taylor / We can't be Phil Collins & The Genesis! You don't even play drums! ~ Ricky Bell to Ralph Tresvant
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Reply #28 posted 05/22/17 7:06pm

Dasein

SoulAlive said:

mnbvc said:

Shouldn't this analysis also suggest that most of the moderately talented Madonna's success is due to the creation of MTV? Without music videos Madonna would have never become a superstar in the same vein as Michael Jackson, Prince, Whitney Houston or George Michael because her "best" performances from her biggest decade don't emit talent to any extent that the aforementioned four do in the 1980s, specifically. And it sure seems that people like David Bowie and Grace Jones Donna Summer etc... had already done what Madonna was known for doing without being afforded MTV.

Music videos helped *every* artist in the 80s,not just Madonna biggrin it helped them all reach the widest audience possible,which meant more record sales.Would MJ's Thriller had made the same impact without the amazing music videos and the support of MTV? Same for Prince and Purple Rain.


Agreed!


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Reply #29 posted 05/22/17 7:07pm

Dasein

Dolenz, don't be ridiulous. Every single post I've made in this thread has been substantive. I'm
not simply in here to cause trouble and it is possible that someone may disagree with you and not
be trolling.

Grow the fuck up.

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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Miss Jackson, If you’re Nasty: The Erasure of Janet Jackson as a Cultural Force