Dasein said:

214 said:

You really hate Beyoncé, don't you? i don't see you saying the same about Britney having "trashy and forgettable music" because certainly Britney and Pink's music is not better than Beyonce´s music by any means. You are hater, admit it already. Why do you waste so much time talkin about someone you despise wholeheartedly?

Who, me?

I do not hate Beyonce at all. I do not like her music. I do not like her performances. And I find
her to be very annoying as an entertainer. But I'm able to recognize that I am quite incapable of
showing how Beyonce is an inferior artist when compared to Janet Jackson, who I prefer simply
because during my formative years, she was at the height of her abilities and popularity.

In other words: my biased leanings towards Janet Jackson is recognized and because I'm honest
about that bias, I do not disparage Beyonce whatsoever. I hope Beyonce makes a gazillion dollars
and sells a gazillion albums as I have no problem with Black Americans making money and having
some type of impact upon their livelihood and society too.

Also, as a Black American male/man, she does not threaten me or my ego like she does other Black
American females/women who do not consider themselves to be equally talented and/or attractive.
But, I think you're probably speaking to Motown or Carousal.

I'm not talkin to you. I'm talkin about the obssesed hater mjcarousal.

214 said:

Dasein said:

Who, me?

I do not hate Beyonce at all. I do not like her music. I do not like her performances. And I find
her to be very annoying as an entertainer. But I'm able to recognize that I am quite incapable of
showing how Beyonce is an inferior artist when compared to Janet Jackson, who I prefer simply
because during my formative years, she was at the height of her abilities and popularity.

In other words: my biased leanings towards Janet Jackson is recognized and because I'm honest
about that bias, I do not disparage Beyonce whatsoever. I hope Beyonce makes a gazillion dollars
and sells a gazillion albums as I have no problem with Black Americans making money and having
some type of impact upon their livelihood and society too.

Also, as a Black American male/man, she does not threaten me or my ego like she does other Black
American females/women who do not consider themselves to be equally talented and/or attractive.
But, I think you're probably speaking to Motown or Carousal.

I'm not talkin to you. I'm talkin about the obssesed hater mjcarousal.

That's what I thought.

Carousal, how old are you?

Dasein said:

jjhunsecker said:

To me, how much she sells or how popular she is , while impressive, is immaterial. I simply don't think her music or her performances are that great, or as great as her acolytes believe them to be

You're missing my point:

You don't think her performances are great or "monumental" or "groundbreaking" but her acolytes
do because of context. You were probably born before or during the same time Beyonce was. Her
acolytes are obviously born much after she was.

I agree with you: she's not so "monumental" or "groundbreaking" artistically because I was born in
the 70s and grew up with Madonna and Janet Jackson. By the time the kids in the Beyhive are born,
Madonna and Janet Jackson are beginning their popularity descent, so Beyonce fills that void.

I'm a lot older than Beyonce- and I've seen aand heard a lot of music in my lifetime. She's talented, certainly, but I don't think near as great as some of her rabid fans think she is...just my two cents, for what it's worth

Dasein said:

This whole topic is about an article that compares Beyonce to her predecessors. Me providing an opinion (or "value judgment" whatever that is) on how she would have fared had she actually been competing with them in their heyday is in no way out of context or invalid. Your speculation is still just that, speculation. There's no sense in trying to split hairs over what speculation is in an attempt to invalidate my argument. Both of us are speculating.

Dasein said:

I was going based off of what you yourself said when I said that standards have been lowered so whatever proof I need lies in your own words.

You seem to take issue with people having opinions, regardless of whatever they are because that what this whole post seems to be about.

Also, when discussing how "big" an artist is, it goes beyond just their music and what it sounds like. It's about image, ability and stats (i.e. album sales, touring numbers, etc.) and numerous other things that display their popularity and impact though the music of course, can still be a factor.

I actually didn't start really listwning to Janet until a few years ago. The hits of my childhood came from Destiny's Child/Beyonce, Justin Timberlake, Kanye West, Britney, NSYNC, Backstreet Boys, etc. so the whole "you prefer Janet because you grew up with her" argument doesn't work. I've had mostly old school music playing in the house but I really haven't started looking into music until the past few years. Nostalgia is only a small part of my preference but nevertheless, it can be argued either way.