mnbvc said:

mjscarousal said:

THIS and the ones that would even dare suggest that Beyawnce is better than Whitney, Mariah, Janet and Madonna, they can eat a sour dick too.

Beyonce will also not nearly be as influential.

[Edited 4/22/17 21:18pm]

Nope, she won't. She will go down as the most overrated pop star in history. I am glad you posted this video because it shows how much superior of a performer Pink and Usher are compared to Beyonce

Also, Beyonce has not had longer longevity than Janet, Mariah, Whitney or Madonna. People who make this outrageous comments have not followed their careers. These women had number one hits in their 30's and late 30's. Beyonce's last hit was over 10 years ago ago when she was at her "peak" and by the time they were Beyonce's current age 35 they were still the biggest sellers selling over 5-10 million units and still poppin out number one hits. Britney Spears is definitly more revered as an Icon than Beyonce. She has two diamond albums and she is the 3rd biggest selling female artist of ever. Her last album went to number one without any promo. Peope don't have to like her but to discredit her accomplishments is straight hatarade especially when Beyonce does not have a diamond album let alone TWO nor was she ever a big album seller. Her and Rihanna are the same in that respect. Beyonce has not worked harder than anybody else in show business. Most of her success has been handed to her due to tokenism unlike Madonna, Mariahn, Whitney and Janet who actually had to work their ass off to earn their accomplishments.

[Edited 4/24/17 21:05pm]

Curtwill1975 said:

mnbvc said:

Based on the aforementioned criteria(catalogue, live performer etc.) how does Beyonce compare with her peers main Britney Spears, P!nk and Christina Aguilera?

I actually think that P!nk is the best overall performer of that generation.

She has more longevity of success that they do(hell she debuted before they did with Destiny's Child) and she has a better reputation especially as far as critical acclaim that they do as music performances and live performances. P!nk is the only other one who is similar to Beyoncé as far as longevity and live performance. Not to mention, when Britney, Christina were at their sales peak(which is where the bulk of their sales come from), it was during the time when overall album sales were at their sales peak, when they(Britney and Christina) had images that appeal to that generation(teen generation) and virtually fads of that time period.

Whereas Beyonce's wasn't even a solo act in that time but with DC has an album that's eligible for diamond certification(The Writings on the Wall) and keep in mind that they were R&B/Pop with a different image and appeal than Britney/Christina so they had a smaller demographic access. Yet they were still amazing popular with a sonic vocal stylings(re: The Writings on the Wall, rap/sung vocal hybrid merging rapping and singing vocal concepts together) which had so much appeal to the clubs and radio stations that it helped same the vocal-centric asthestic nature of mainstream musical entertainment.

Then Beyonce was able to transfer that into major solo commerical success and she's the last black female to do this on her level. Her legacy is different than theirs and at this point more respected that theirs. P!nk is the only one of the 3 you name that rivals it.

[Edited 4/24/17 8:43am]

No one is going to debate her superiority as a performer to them, but while her recording career debuted before theirs did, Britney/Christina's career as professional entertainers still predates Beyonce. After all, without the Mickey Mouse Club, there literally is no NSYNC whatsoever. And Britney's highly commercially succssful residency is a testiment to an in-depth catalogue that spans 8/9 albums rather than her performing ability.

But in terms of that commercial aspect, Britney was still either the second best selling albums artist (1999) or the third best-selling albums artist (2000) during arguably the most competitive commercial era. So you can't simply say that if Dangerously in Love debuted in that era she would have the same success because that was the fifth highest selling album released that year and her subsequent albums were released with lesser competion. So Britney had a higher peak than Beyonce by any measure. And like Beyonce, Britney also has an album, Circus, eligible for re-cetification to multplatinum. I think that's key since it was a comeback album and does show longevity. Beyonce's the most impressive in that regard but Britney still has seven platinum albums and P!nk (who will ultimately outlast Britney) has six.

So Britney can't really be considered a fad since the 2007 track Freakshow (which she has a writing credit, that could mean anything) is credited with bringing influences of dubstep to mainstream pop and Toxic crushes her teen pop in the 21st Century; the younger generation(s) are more familiar with that song than with ...Baby One More Time. I would say she has multiple genre defining songs in her catalogue like Beyonce and they both have many, many international hits.

Regardless, I would agree that Beyonce has established herself has the defining artist of her generation. But I would definately put Britney number 2 ahead of P!nk. P!nk is far, far more talented than Britney but she's not more impressive commercially than Britney, Britney already established longevity like her pears and P!nk was never a cultral lightning rod that Britney was throughout the 2000s decade. Beyonce has the combination of all these factors that make her number one. 1.Beyonce 2.Britney 3.P!nk 4.Christina

But people should not be compared across generations. Beyonce is arguably more commercially impressive than Janet but Janet paved the way for her in multiple key ways. Likewise, Britney has easily sold more than Janet Jackson but she could never be equal or above Janet since she and her team shamelessly ripped her off down to Janet's mannerisms during her peak years.

[Edited 4/25/17 10:31am]

Those delusional dip-sticks from the Bey Hive never cease to amaze (scare) me. Year after year, they just get more and more ridiculous. Beyonce ought to be ashamed of herself for paying the poor things a few bucks and bribing them with concert tickets to concoct such dribble to post on the net. If she REALLY cared about her Bey Hive, she would donate money to send them all to mental hosiptals for treatment . But, nooooooooo. She's so selfish. She only cares about herself.

mnbvc said:

Curtwill1975 said:

She has more longevity of success that they do(hell she debuted before they did with Destiny's Child) and she has a better reputation especially as far as critical acclaim that they do as music performances and live performances. P!nk is the only other one who is similar to Beyoncé as far as longevity and live performance. Not to mention, when Britney, Christina were at their sales peak(which is where the bulk of their sales come from), it was during the time when overall album sales were at their sales peak, when they(Britney and Christina) had images that appeal to that generation(teen generation) and virtually fads of that time period.

Whereas Beyonce's wasn't even a solo act in that time but with DC has an album that's eligible for diamond certification(The Writings on the Wall) and keep in mind that they were R&B/Pop with a different image and appeal than Britney/Christina so they had a smaller demographic access. Yet they were still amazing popular with a sonic vocal stylings(re: The Writings on the Wall, rap/sung vocal hybrid merging rapping and singing vocal concepts together) which had so much appeal to the clubs and radio stations that it helped same the vocal-centric asthestic nature of mainstream musical entertainment.

Then Beyonce was able to transfer that into major solo commerical success and she's the last black female to do this on her level. Her legacy is different than theirs and at this point more respected that theirs. P!nk is the only one of the 3 you name that rivals it.

[Edited 4/24/17 8:43am]

No one is going to debate her superiority as a performer to them, but while her recording career debuted before theirs did, Britney/Christina's career as professional entertainers still predates Beyonce. After all, without the Mickey Mouse Club, there literally is no NSYNC whatsoever. And Britney's highly commercially succssful residency is a testiment to an in-depth catalogue that spans 8/9 albums rather than her performing ability.

But in terms of that commercial aspect, Britney was still either the second best selling albums artist (1999) or the third best-selling albums artist (2000) during arguably the most competitive commercial era. So you can't simply say that if Dangerously in Love debuted in that era she would have the same success because that was the fifth highest selling album released that year and her subsequent albums were released with lesser competion. So Britney had a higher peak than Beyonce by any measure. And like Beyonce, Britney also has an album, Circus, eligible for re-cetification to multplatinum. I think that's key since it was a comeback album and does show longevity. Beyonce's the most impressive in that regard but Britney still has seven platinum albums and P!nk (who will ultimately outlast Britney) has six.

So Britney can't really be considered a fad since the 2007 track Freakshow (which she has a writing credit, that could mean anything) is credited with bringing influences of dubstep to mainstream pop and Toxic crushes her teen pop in the 21st Century; the younger generation(s) are more familiar with that song than with ...Baby One More Time. I would say she has multiple genre defining songs in her catalogue like Beyonce and they both have many, many international hits.

Regardless, I would agree that Beyonce has established herself has the defining artist of her generation. But I would definately put Britney number 2 ahead of P!nk. P!nk is far, far more talented than Britney but she's not more impressive commercially than Britney, Britney already established longevity like her pears and P!nk was never a cultral lightning rod that Britney was throughout the 2000s decade. Beyonce has the combination of all these factors that make her number one. 1.Beyonce 2.Britney 3.P!nk 4.Christina

But people should not be compared across generations. Beyonce is arguably more commercially impressive than Janet but Janet paved the way for her in multiple key ways. Likewise, Britney has easily sold more than Janet Jackson but she could never be equal or above Janet since she and her team shamelessly ripped her off down to Janet's mannerisms during her peak years.

[Edited 4/25/17 10:31am]

How?

mnbvc said:

Curtwill1975 said:

She has more longevity of success that they do(hell she debuted before they did with Destiny's Child) and she has a better reputation especially as far as critical acclaim that they do as music performances and live performances. P!nk is the only other one who is similar to Beyoncé as far as longevity and live performance. Not to mention, when Britney, Christina were at their sales peak(which is where the bulk of their sales come from), it was during the time when overall album sales were at their sales peak, when they(Britney and Christina) had images that appeal to that generation(teen generation) and virtually fads of that time period.

Whereas Beyonce's wasn't even a solo act in that time but with DC has an album that's eligible for diamond certification(The Writings on the Wall) and keep in mind that they were R&B/Pop with a different image and appeal than Britney/Christina so they had a smaller demographic access. Yet they were still amazing popular with a sonic vocal stylings(re: The Writings on the Wall, rap/sung vocal hybrid merging rapping and singing vocal concepts together) which had so much appeal to the clubs and radio stations that it helped same the vocal-centric asthestic nature of mainstream musical entertainment.

Then Beyonce was able to transfer that into major solo commerical success and she's the last black female to do this on her level. Her legacy is different than theirs and at this point more respected that theirs. P!nk is the only one of the 3 you name that rivals it.

[Edited 4/24/17 8:43am]

No one is going to debate her superiority as a performer to them, but while her recording career debuted before theirs did, Britney/Christina's career as professional entertainers still predates Beyonce. After all, without the Mickey Mouse Club, there literally is no NSYNC whatsoever. And Britney's highly commercially succssful residency is a testiment to an in-depth catalogue that spans 8/9 albums rather than her performing ability.

But in terms of that commercial aspect, Britney was still either the second best selling albums artist (1999) or the third best-selling albums artist (2000) during arguably the most competitive commercial era. So you can't simply say that if Dangerously in Love debuted in that era she would have the same success because that was the fifth highest selling album released that year and her subsequent albums were released with lesser competion. So Britney had a higher peak than Beyonce by any measure. And like Beyonce, Britney also has an album, Circus, eligible for re-cetification to multplatinum. I think that's key since it was a comeback album and does show longevity. Beyonce's the most impressive in that regard but Britney still has seven platinum albums and P!nk (who will ultimately outlast Britney) has six.

So Britney can't really be considered a fad since the 2007 track Freakshow (which she has a writing credit, that could mean anything) is credited with bringing influences of dubstep to mainstream pop and Toxic crushes her teen pop in the 21st Century; the younger generation(s) are more familiar with that song than with ...Baby One More Time. I would say she has multiple genre defining songs in her catalogue like Beyonce and they both have many, many international hits.

Regardless, I would agree that Beyonce has established herself has the defining artist of her generation. But I would definately put Britney number 2 ahead of P!nk. P!nk is far, far more talented than Britney but she's not more impressive commercially than Britney, Britney already established longevity like her pears and P!nk was never a cultral lightning rod that Britney was throughout the 2000s decade. Beyonce has the combination of all these factors that make her number one. 1.Beyonce 2.Britney 3.P!nk 4.Christina

But people should not be compared across generations. Beyonce is arguably more commercially impressive than Janet but Janet paved the way for her in multiple key ways. Likewise, Britney has easily sold more than Janet Jackson but she could never be equal or above Janet since she and her team shamelessly ripped her off down to Janet's mannerisms during her peak years.

[Edited 4/25/17 10:31am]

I really like your poster BUT this is not true. Janet has 10 number one hits, Beyonce only has 5 (MIGHT I add Beyonce's last hit was over 10 years and Janet's last hit she was the same age that Beyonce is now). Janet has sold over 100 million records world wide, Beyonce has only sold 30 million ww. Janet's biggest selling album sold over 20 million while Beyonces sold 10 million. So objectively and statistically your statement is false. Janet is more commercially successful and I am not saying this because I prefer her, my statement is strictly based on stats and receipts. Janet also played stadiums and arenas during the peak of her career and she saw higher numbers.

[Edited 4/25/17 11:59am]

alphastreet said:

I agree she has an longevity but to put others down who made it easy for her to breakthrough in the first place is a hugely biased article and stemming from insecurity. It was obviously written by a Beyoncé fan for Beyoncé fans cause this is such bullshit. Why not just enjoy everyone without pitting them against each other unecessarily? I find a Beyoncé article like this comes out every few years cause I could have sworn I read a similar type of article in the b'day era

This was written by Beyonce's PR team. Another reason why a lot of people dont like Beyonce is because she lacks humilty and disrespects artists that came before her.

mnbvc said:

Curtwill1975 said:

She has more longevity of success that they do(hell she debuted before they did with Destiny's Child) and she has a better reputation especially as far as critical acclaim that they do as music performances and live performances. P!nk is the only other one who is similar to Beyoncé as far as longevity and live performance. Not to mention, when Britney, Christina were at their sales peak(which is where the bulk of their sales come from), it was during the time when overall album sales were at their sales peak, when they(Britney and Christina) had images that appeal to that generation(teen generation) and virtually fads of that time period.

Whereas Beyonce's wasn't even a solo act in that time but with DC has an album that's eligible for diamond certification(The Writings on the Wall) and keep in mind that they were R&B/Pop with a different image and appeal than Britney/Christina so they had a smaller demographic access. Yet they were still amazing popular with a sonic vocal stylings(re: The Writings on the Wall, rap/sung vocal hybrid merging rapping and singing vocal concepts together) which had so much appeal to the clubs and radio stations that it helped same the vocal-centric asthestic nature of mainstream musical entertainment.

Then Beyonce was able to transfer that into major solo commerical success and she's the last black female to do this on her level. Her legacy is different than theirs and at this point more respected that theirs. P!nk is the only one of the 3 you name that rivals it.

[Edited 4/24/17 8:43am]

No one is going to debate her superiority as a performer to them, but while her recording career debuted before theirs did, Britney/Christina's career as professional entertainers still predates Beyonce. After all, without the Mickey Mouse Club, there literally is no NSYNC whatsoever. And Britney's highly commercially succssful residency is a testiment to an in-depth catalogue that spans 8/9 albums rather than her performing ability.

But in terms of that commercial aspect, Britney was still either the second best selling albums artist (1999) or the third best-selling albums artist (2000) during arguably the most competitive commercial era. So you can't simply say that if Dangerously in Love debuted in that era she would have the same success because that was the fifth highest selling album released that year and her subsequent albums were released with lesser competion. So Britney had a higher peak than Beyonce by any measure. And like Beyonce, Britney also has an album, Circus, eligible for re-cetification to multplatinum. I think that's key since it was a comeback album and does show longevity. Beyonce's the most impressive in that regard but Britney still has seven platinum albums and P!nk (who will ultimately outlast Britney) has six.

So Britney can't really be considered a fad since the 2007 track Freakshow (which she has a writing credit, that could mean anything) is credited with bringing influences of dubstep to mainstream pop and Toxic crushes her teen pop in the 21st Century; the younger generation(s) are more familiar with that song than with ...Baby One More Time. I would say she has multiple genre defining songs in her catalogue like Beyonce and they both have many, many international hits.

Regardless, I would agree that Beyonce has established herself has the defining artist of her generation. But I would definately put Britney number 2 ahead of P!nk. P!nk is far, far more talented than Britney but she's not more impressive commercially than Britney, Britney already established longevity like her pears and P!nk was never a cultral lightning rod that Britney was throughout the 2000s decade. Beyonce has the combination of all these factors that make her number one. 1.Beyonce 2.Britney 3.P!nk 4.Christina

But people should not be compared across generations. Beyonce is arguably more commercially impressive than Janet but Janet paved the way for her in multiple key ways. Likewise, Britney has easily sold more than Janet Jackson but she could never be equal or above Janet since she and her team shamelessly ripped her off down to Janet's mannerisms during her peak years.

[Edited 4/25/17 10:31am]

I agree with the bolded. However, IMO I personally would place Britney ahead of Beyonce as the defining artist of her generation. She sold more albums, had more hits, more pop culture moments, has more classics, etc. I know it is preference which is why I said IMO. However, Britney Spears has more noteworthy and stand out commercial accomplishments than Beyonce, not to mention she had a bigger commercial peak.

[Edited 4/25/17 12:10pm]

MotownSubdivision said:

mnbvc said:

No one is going to debate her superiority as a performer to them, but while her recording career debuted before theirs did, Britney/Christina's career as professional entertainers still predates Beyonce. After all, without the Mickey Mouse Club, there literally is no NSYNC whatsoever. And Britney's highly commercially succssful residency is a testiment to an in-depth catalogue that spans 8/9 albums rather than her performing ability.

But in terms of that commercial aspect, Britney was still either the second best selling albums artist (1999) or the third best-selling albums artist (2000) during arguably the most competitive commercial era. So you can't simply say that if Dangerously in Love debuted in that era she would have the same success because that was the fifth highest selling album released that year and her subsequent albums were released with lesser competion. So Britney had a higher peak than Beyonce by any measure. And like Beyonce, Britney also has an album, Circus, eligible for re-cetification to multplatinum. I think that's key since it was a comeback album and does show longevity. Beyonce's the most impressive in that regard but Britney still has seven platinum albums and P!nk (who will ultimately outlast Britney) has six.

So Britney can't really be considered a fad since the 2007 track Freakshow (which she has a writing credit, that could mean anything) is credited with bringing influences of dubstep to mainstream pop and Toxic crushes her teen pop in the 21st Century; the younger generation(s) are more familiar with that song than with ...Baby One More Time. I would say she has multiple genre defining songs in her catalogue like Beyonce and they both have many, many international hits.

Regardless, I would agree that Beyonce has established herself has the defining artist of her generation. But I would definately put Britney number 2 ahead of P!nk. P!nk is far, far more talented than Britney but she's not more impressive commercially than Britney, Britney already established longevity like her pears and P!nk was never a cultral lightning rod that Britney was throughout the 2000s decade. Beyonce has the combination of all these factors that make her number one. 1.Beyonce 2.Britney 3.P!nk 4.Christina

But people should not be compared across generations. Beyonce is arguably more commercially impressive than Janet but Janet paved the way for her in multiple key ways. Likewise, Britney has easily sold more than Janet Jackson but she could never be equal or above Janet since she and her team shamelessly ripped her off down to Janet's mannerisms during her peak years.

[Edited 4/25/17 10:31am]

How?

I was about to ask the same, in which alternative reality is that?

mjscarousal said:

mnbvc said:

No one is going to debate her superiority as a performer to them, but while her recording career debuted before theirs did, Britney/Christina's career as professional entertainers still predates Beyonce. After all, without the Mickey Mouse Club, there literally is no NSYNC whatsoever. And Britney's highly commercially succssful residency is a testiment to an in-depth catalogue that spans 8/9 albums rather than her performing ability.

But in terms of that commercial aspect, Britney was still either the second best selling albums artist (1999) or the third best-selling albums artist (2000) during arguably the most competitive commercial era. So you can't simply say that if Dangerously in Love debuted in that era she would have the same success because that was the fifth highest selling album released that year and her subsequent albums were released with lesser competion. So Britney had a higher peak than Beyonce by any measure. And like Beyonce, Britney also has an album, Circus, eligible for re-cetification to multplatinum. I think that's key since it was a comeback album and does show longevity. Beyonce's the most impressive in that regard but Britney still has seven platinum albums and P!nk (who will ultimately outlast Britney) has six.

So Britney can't really be considered a fad since the 2007 track Freakshow (which she has a writing credit, that could mean anything) is credited with bringing influences of dubstep to mainstream pop and Toxic crushes her teen pop in the 21st Century; the younger generation(s) are more familiar with that song than with ...Baby One More Time. I would say she has multiple genre defining songs in her catalogue like Beyonce and they both have many, many international hits.

Regardless, I would agree that Beyonce has established herself has the defining artist of her generation. But I would definately put Britney number 2 ahead of P!nk. P!nk is far, far more talented than Britney but she's not more impressive commercially than Britney, Britney already established longevity like her pears and P!nk was never a cultral lightning rod that Britney was throughout the 2000s decade. Beyonce has the combination of all these factors that make her number one. 1.Beyonce 2.Britney 3.P!nk 4.Christina

But people should not be compared across generations. Beyonce is arguably more commercially impressive than Janet but Janet paved the way for her in multiple key ways. Likewise, Britney has easily sold more than Janet Jackson but she could never be equal or above Janet since she and her team shamelessly ripped her off down to Janet's mannerisms during her peak years.

[Edited 4/25/17 10:31am]

I agree with the bolded. However, IMO I personally would place Britney ahead of Beyonce as the defining artist of her generation. She sold more albums, had more hits, more pop culture moments, has more classics, etc. I know it is preference which is why I said IMO. However, Britney Spears has more noteworthy and stand out commercial accomplishments than Beyonce, not to mention she had a bigger commercial peak.

[Edited 4/25/17 12:10pm]

It's not a preference it's a fact.

Because someone wrote this on defending her legacy, she gets the blame for this, accusing her disrespecting those who before her. You mean the same woman that when Jermaine Dupri came for her, saying that he couldn't see Britney, Janet, and Beyoncé lasting 20 years like Janet at the time when he said this and Beyoncé said that Janet, along with Whitney and Mariah were the most influential women in pop entertainment and that they influence everyone and that she(Beyoncé) weren't their peers.

I think this article is doing too much myself but don't go the other extreme either. That's not fair to her at all. If this was written about Rihanna would any of you go to same extreme? I hope not. It's not fair to either one of them.

As far as Britney/Beyonce. The only "fact" is that she's sold more albums as a solo act(count DC stats along with Bey's and they are virtually the same). Bey has more #1s, Top 10s and Top 40s even as a solo act and Crazy in Love is one of the most critically acclaimed songs of the 00s. That's Beyonce's song.

But truthfully speaking they both represent two different eras of the 2000s in far as teen pop and Pop/R&B being a major factor in Popular entertainment. So as far as iconic moments, that argument is the one that could go either way. My viewpoint would be that Urban and especially Contemporary R&B, Pop&B were the predominant sub-genre of American Popular Entertainment in that decade so I lean toward Beyoncé since she's "the female face of it" for that era. Bey has the longevity while having good commercially peaks, Britney has the massive commerical peaks and until 2011 or 13 depending on your viewpoint, having the longevity.

HELL. NO. She wouldn't make top 10 in past Pop legends. HELL. NO.

People are in a cult over this chick

Curtwill1975 said:

Because someone wrote this on defending her legacy, she gets the blame for this, accusing her disrespecting those who before her. You mean the same woman that when Jermaine Dupri came for her, saying that he couldn't see Britney, Janet, and Beyoncé lasting 20 years like Janet at the time when he said this and Beyoncé said that Janet, along with Whitney and Mariah were the most influential women in pop entertainment and that they influence everyone and that she(Beyoncé) weren't their peers.

I think this article is doing too much myself but don't go the other extreme either. That's not fair to her at all. If this was written about Rihanna would any of you go to same extreme? I hope not. It's not fair to either one of them.

As far as Britney/Beyonce. The only "fact" is that she's sold more albums as a solo act(count DC stats along with Bey's and they are virtually the same). Bey has more #1s, Top 10s and Top 40s even as a solo act and Crazy in Love is one of the most critically acclaimed songs of the 00s. That's Beyonce's song.

But truthfully speaking they both represent two different eras of the 2000s in far as teen pop and Pop/R&B being a major factor in Popular entertainment. So as far as iconic moments, that argument is the one that could go either way. My viewpoint would be that Urban and especially Contemporary R&B, Pop&B were the predominant sub-genre of American Popular Entertainment in that decade so I lean toward Beyoncé since she's "the female face of it" for that era. Bey has the longevity while having good commercially peaks, Britney has the massive commerical peaks and until 2011 or 13 depending on your viewpoint, having the longevity.

That is your opinion and your perfectly entitled to think that.

But what is a fact is that Beyonce has done and said a number of questionable things over the years that shows that humility is not her strongest area. You can believe that just some random person wrote this. However, The problem is that there have been many many similiar articles over the years that lets me know her PR team are the mastermind behind these inflitrations. The only reason why I said that people minimize Britney's success is because you unfairly discredited her achievements. You can prefer Beyonce over Britney but Britney is more commercially successful, this is a fact. Britney Spears has 4 number ones, Beyonce has 5 numbers ones, that is not anything noteworthy or that BIG of a difference to even note especially when Britney Spears has recently garnered number one hits while Beyonces last real hit was 10 years ago. Britney Spears has charted better overall than Beyonce as well. I find that very impressive considering Britney doesn't have a PR machine unlike Beyonce.

Lastly, like another poster mentioned its not strictly all about the numbers but also impact and Britney Spears had more bigger hits and albums that were more defining than Beyonce.

this has nothing to do with talent..just amount of money made in such a short career so far

mjscarousal said:

mjscarousal said:

Curtwill1975 said:

mjscarousal said:

That is your opinion and your perfectly entitled to think that.

But what is a fact is that Beyonce has done and said a number of questionable things over the years that shows that humility is not her strongest area. You can believe that just some random person wrote this. However, The problem is that there have been many many similiar articles over the years that lets me know her PR team are the mastermind behind these inflitrations. The only reason why I said that people minimize Britney's success is because you unfairly discredited her achievements. You can prefer Beyonce over Britney but Britney is more commercially successful, this is a fact. Britney Spears has 4 number ones, Beyonce has 5 numbers ones, that is not anything noteworthy or that BIG of a difference to even note especially when Britney Spears has recently garnered number one hits while Beyonces last real hit was 10 years ago. Britney Spears has charted better overall than Beyonce as well. I find that very impressive considering Britney doesn't have a PR machine unlike Beyonce.

Lastly, like another poster mentioned its not strictly all about the numbers but also impact and Britney Spears had more bigger hits and albums that were more defining than Beyonce.

But Britney don't have bigger and more defining hits than Beyonce. With or without Destiny's Child. Urban Top 40s dominated popular entertainment and Bey was the female face of it. That's why it really doesn't matter if she ever get another #1 because she has at least 3 impactful #1s that are definitive songs on the decade of the 2000s. The only real difference between them as far as album sales is Britney's selling peak was when Beyonce was in a group putting up big sales number through that. Of course Britney Spears is more commercially successful in solo career selling albums but that doesn't tell the whole story of both of their legacies. Beyonce is more than her solo career and everyone who objectively looks at her legacy knows this. And everyday her looks more and more favorable compared to Britney. It is what it is.

It does matter. It matters because you feel strongly that Beyonce has "more longevity" than Britney Spears when Beyonces last hit was 10 years ago and Britney's last hit was in 2011. Britney even scored a number one in 2009 while Beyonces last number one hit was in 2008. Therefore, Britney has scored at least 2 number one hits since Beyonce's last one and I think that is noteworthy considering Britney has not used any promotion the way Beyonce has. When you talk about "commericial longevity" that does matter.

You clearly like Beyonce and that is fine but you have to understand the difference between fact and opinion. It is your opinion she has 3 hits that are "defining". IMO, Besides Crazy in Love, none of her hits are defining and even Crazy in love hasn't aged well and isn't that strong within itself. Although I don't think Britney has been groundbreaking either, I do think she actually has classics and more defining songs and moments than Beyonce. Also, you can't talk about DC and Beyonce together, there are two seperate acts. I feel people do this as a crutch for Beyonce but it only makes her act seem weaker because her commercial stats can't stand by itself.

Curtwill1975 said:

mjscarousal said:

That is your opinion and your perfectly entitled to think that.

But what is a fact is that Beyonce has done and said a number of questionable things over the years that shows that humility is not her strongest area. You can believe that just some random person wrote this. However, The problem is that there have been many many similiar articles over the years that lets me know her PR team are the mastermind behind these inflitrations. The only reason why I said that people minimize Britney's success is because you unfairly discredited her achievements. You can prefer Beyonce over Britney but Britney is more commercially successful, this is a fact. Britney Spears has 4 number ones, Beyonce has 5 numbers ones, that is not anything noteworthy or that BIG of a difference to even note especially when Britney Spears has recently garnered number one hits while Beyonces last real hit was 10 years ago. Britney Spears has charted better overall than Beyonce as well. I find that very impressive considering Britney doesn't have a PR machine unlike Beyonce.

Lastly, like another poster mentioned its not strictly all about the numbers but also impact and Britney Spears had more bigger hits and albums that were more defining than Beyonce.

The irony of this discussion is that Britney has become a singles artist now where Beyonce eschews massive commercial hits for being an albums artist. She doesn't get pop airplay, has only one source of streaming for Lemonade and her albums sells like they're given out for free. Beyonce's massive and loyal fan base is why she's still as popular as she is. No PR Machine is strong enough to make that happen. Britney's fanbase aren't as loyal but like typical pop stars they need #1 hits to keep them relevant and it is probably one of the reasons that intrigues critics concerning Beyonce. I'm not even getting into the quality execution of her artistry, just her new approach to her brand and successful she is with is fascinating. It's unique for today's commercially successful entertainment star, combined with the longevity that that she has already.

None of this has anything to do with receipts or stats. This is just your opinion. The fact of the matter is Britney has 4 number one hits, 2 of which she has recently scored since Beyonce last hit. Nothing you say can change that. Britney stat's clearly shows that she is not a single's artist so regardless of what you say she has 2 diamond albums and is the 3rd biggest selling female artist in America, period. Its sad that you can't even acknowledge those achievements, instead, you continue to discredit them with "your opinions". Britney's debut outsells Beyonce's entire disography. Why do you keep calling Beyonce an "album artist" when her album sales are mediocre?

[Edited 4/25/17 20:06pm]

mjscarousal said:

Curtwill1975 said:

mjscarousal said: The irony of this discussion is that Britney has become a singles artist now where Beyonce eschews massive commercial hits for being an albums artist. She doesn't get pop airplay, has only one source of streaming for Lemonade and her albums sells like they're given out for free. Beyonce's massive and loyal fan base is why she's still as popular as she is. No PR Machine is strong enough to make that happen. Britney's fanbase aren't as loyal but like typical pop stars they need #1 hits to keep them relevant and it is probably one of the reasons that intrigues critics concerning Beyonce. I'm not even getting into the quality execution of her artistry, just her new approach to her brand and successful she is with is fascinating. It's unique for today's commercially successful entertainment star, combined with the longevity that that she has already.

None of this has anything to do with receipts or stats. This is just your opinion. The fact of the matter is Britney has 4 number one hits, 2 of which she has recently scored since Beyonce last hit. Nothing you say can change that. Britney stat's clearly shows that she is not a single's artist so regardless of what you say she has 2 diamond albums and is the 3rd biggest selling female artist in America, period. Its sad that you can't even acknowledge those achievements, instead, you continue to discredit them with "your opinions". Britney's debut outsells Beyonce's entire disography. Why do you keep calling Beyonce an "album artist" when her album sales are mediocre?

[Edited 4/25/17 20:06pm]

What do sales have to do with that? she is more an album artist than Britney ever was.

This goes back to an earlier discussion on another thread about who qualifies as an icon.

As generations come and go, so do some icons.

There are many in the younger generations that believe what this writer says. Many of them don't remember Janet or Madonna in their primes. Heck, a lot of them are probably now too young to remember Britney or Aaliyah or Pink in their primes. Bey is their point of reference. So they'll believe them.

In fairness to the writer, the guy didn't say "greatest female popular artist or singer of all time." He said "pop star." He at least had the good sense not to put Bey in the company of Aretha Franklin or Ella Fitzgerald or Lady Day. "Star" isn't a big enough moniker for them and artists like them.

namepeace said:

This goes back to an earlier discussion on another thread about who qualifies as an icon.

As generations come and go, so do some icons.

There are many in the younger generations that believe what this writer says. Many of them don't remember Janet or Madonna in their primes. Heck, a lot of them are probably now too young to remember Britney or Aaliyah or Pink in their primes. Bey is their point of reference. So they'll believe them.

In fairness to the writer, the guy didn't say "greatest female popular artist or singer of all time." He said "pop star." He at least had the good sense not to put Bey in the company of Aretha Franklin or Ella Fitzgerald or Lady Day. "Star" isn't a big enough moniker for them and artists like them.

But this is your assumption and you probably have this assumption because you are out of touch with the "younger generation" because statistically it doesn't reflect your assumption. However, if this is your opinion you are perfectly entitled to have it but its narrow minded to continue to make a generalization about an entire generation based on what "you assume".

mjscarousal said:

mnbvc said:

No one is going to debate her superiority as a performer to them, but while her recording career debuted before theirs did, Britney/Christina's career as professional entertainers still predates Beyonce. After all, without the Mickey Mouse Club, there literally is no NSYNC whatsoever. And Britney's highly commercially succssful residency is a testiment to an in-depth catalogue that spans 8/9 albums rather than her performing ability.

But in terms of that commercial aspect, Britney was still either the second best selling albums artist (1999) or the third best-selling albums artist (2000) during arguably the most competitive commercial era. So you can't simply say that if Dangerously in Love debuted in that era she would have the same success because that was the fifth highest selling album released that year and her subsequent albums were released with lesser competion. So Britney had a higher peak than Beyonce by any measure. And like Beyonce, Britney also has an album, Circus, eligible for re-cetification to multplatinum. I think that's key since it was a comeback album and does show longevity. Beyonce's the most impressive in that regard but Britney still has seven platinum albums and P!nk (who will ultimately outlast Britney) has six.

So Britney can't really be considered a fad since the 2007 track Freakshow (which she has a writing credit, that could mean anything) is credited with bringing influences of dubstep to mainstream pop and Toxic crushes her teen pop in the 21st Century; the younger generation(s) are more familiar with that song than with ...Baby One More Time. I would say she has multiple genre defining songs in her catalogue like Beyonce and they both have many, many international hits.

Regardless, I would agree that Beyonce has established herself has the defining artist of her generation. But I would definately put Britney number 2 ahead of P!nk. P!nk is far, far more talented than Britney but she's not more impressive commercially than Britney, Britney already established longevity like her pears and P!nk was never a cultral lightning rod that Britney was throughout the 2000s decade. Beyonce has the combination of all these factors that make her number one. 1.Beyonce 2.Britney 3.P!nk 4.Christina

But people should not be compared across generations. Beyonce is arguably more commercially impressive than Janet but Janet paved the way for her in multiple key ways. Likewise, Britney has easily sold more than Janet Jackson but she could never be equal or above Janet since she and her team shamelessly ripped her off down to Janet's mannerisms during her peak years.

[Edited 4/25/17 10:31am]

I really like your poster BUT this is not true. Janet has 10 number one hits, Beyonce only has 5 (MIGHT I add Beyonce's last hit was over 10 years and Janet's last hit she was the same age that Beyonce is now). Janet has sold over 100 million records world wide, Beyonce has only sold 30 million ww. Janet's biggest selling album sold over 20 million while Beyonces sold 10 million. So objectively and statistically your statement is false. Janet is more commercially successful and I am not saying this because I prefer her, my statement is strictly based on stats and receipts. Janet also played stadiums and arenas during the peak of her career and she saw higher numbers.

[Edited 4/25/17 11:59am]

But your "stats and receipts" are placed out of context.

During the years of Beyonce's apex, the marketplace for recording artists had changed, so to
compare the number of units Beyonce sold in 2009 to the number of units sold by Janet Jackson
in 1989, for example, would be an incommensurate comparison. It is well known that nobody is
selling albums today and yesterday like they were selling them during the height of Janet Jack-
son's popularity.

Furthermore, "stats and receipts" only tells a part of a recording artist's story. For example:
it appears that Rihanna has sold more albums than Janet Jackson has. Would you say that the
former is greater than the latter? So, objectively, your claim that Janet Jackson is a greater
female pop star than Beyonce based upon albums sold is flawed due to a false equivalence.

ReddBlitz said:

Beyonce has consistently proven herself a consummate performer, granted, but her entire career, imo, has basically been no more than rehashing the same routines we've seen from the very respected aforementioned divas as previously mentioned in [the] article. Beyonce has yet to really and truly do anything that's as monumental and groundbreaking.

Great post- I've said this myself many times. Beyonce is good, not the great legend her fans claim her to be. I don't see or hear anything that wasn't done earlier (and better) by Madonna or Tina Turner

jjhunsecker said:

ReddBlitz said:

Beyonce has consistently proven herself a consummate performer, granted, but her entire career, imo, has basically been no more than rehashing the same routines we've seen from the very respected aforementioned divas as previously mentioned in [the] article. Beyonce has yet to really and truly do anything that's as monumental and groundbreaking.

Great post- I've said this myself many times. Beyonce is good, not the great legend her fans claim her to be. I don't see or hear anything that wasn't done earlier (and better) by Madonna or Tina Turner

I'm no fan of Beyonce, but you must place Beyonce's career in its proper context, which means
that there are some things that she may have done that are groundbreaking in 2017, but would
not translate well over to whatever Madonna was doing in 1987.

How we perceive "monumental and groundbreaking" is often contextualized. And I've said before
and I'll say it again: I think the criticism she receives here on this board is not too dissimilar from
hating the most pretty and popular girl in high school who is rich, fashionable, has some modicum
of talent, and dates the most popular boy in school. It's super easy to find her faults and reasons
why she's not as popular as Jane Doe was twenty years ago . . .

The game is structured now so that you have to work extra-hard just to sell a million units, which
was not the case for industry backed and sanctioned pop stars during the 80s and 90s. This means
Beyonce's career is pretty fucking impressive especially since the marketplace has changed so
dramatically!

Dasein said:

mjscarousal said:

I really like your poster BUT this is not true. Janet has 10 number one hits, Beyonce only has 5 (MIGHT I add Beyonce's last hit was over 10 years and Janet's last hit she was the same age that Beyonce is now). Janet has sold over 100 million records world wide, Beyonce has only sold 30 million ww. Janet's biggest selling album sold over 20 million while Beyonces sold 10 million. So objectively and statistically your statement is false. Janet is more commercially successful and I am not saying this because I prefer her, my statement is strictly based on stats and receipts. Janet also played stadiums and arenas during the peak of her career and she saw higher numbers.

[Edited 4/25/17 11:59am]

But your "stats and receipts" are placed out of context.

During the years of Beyonce's apex, the marketplace for recording artists had changed, so to
compare the number of units Beyonce sold in 2009 to the number of units sold by Janet Jackson
in 1989, for example, would be an incommensurate comparison. It is well known that nobody is
selling albums today and yesterday like they were selling them during the height of Janet Jack-
son's popularity.

Furthermore, "stats and receipts" only tells a part of a recording artist's story. For example:
it appears that Rihanna has sold more albums than Janet Jackson has. Would you say that the
former is greater than the latter? So, objectively, your claim that Janet Jackson is a greater
female pop star than Beyonce based upon albums sold is flawed due to a false equivalence.

How are they taken out of context? What have I said that isn't true?

If Usher, the last Black artist to receive a diamond album achieved this in 2004, then Beyonce could have in 2003 when she debut. She had a chance to score diamond All her peers either have diamond albums or sold more but for some reason she gets all these undeserving accolades for achieving feats that she has not achieved. If Beyonce is this legendary and iconic invincible artist (that she is painted to be) why couldn't she go diamond in the digital era like Adele. Adele did it twice so why can't Beyonce? These are pity excuses now.

Rihanna has not sold more albums than Janet.

mjscarousal said:

Dasein said:

But your "stats and receipts" are placed out of context.

During the years of Beyonce's apex, the marketplace for recording artists had changed, so to
compare the number of units Beyonce sold in 2009 to the number of units sold by Janet Jackson
in 1989, for example, would be an incommensurate comparison. It is well known that nobody is
selling albums today and yesterday like they were selling them during the height of Janet Jack-
son's popularity.

Furthermore, "stats and receipts" only tells a part of a recording artist's story. For example:
it appears that Rihanna has sold more albums than Janet Jackson has. Would you say that the
former is greater than the latter? So, objectively, your claim that Janet Jackson is a greater
female pop star than Beyonce based upon albums sold is flawed due to a false equivalence.

How are they taken out of context? What have I said that isn't true?

If Usher, the last Black artist to receive a diamond album achieved this in 2004, then Beyonce could have in 2003 when she debut. She had a chance to score diamond All her peers either have diamond albums or sold more but for some reason she gets all these undeserving accolades for achieving feats that she has not achieved. If Beyonce is this legendary and iconic invincible artist (that she is painted to be) why couldn't she go diamond in the digital era like Adele. Adele did it twice so why can't Beyonce? These are pity excuses now.

Rihanna has not sold more albums than Janet.

When you take things out of context, it's not that anything said about such things is/isn't true;
It's that you are not considering the circumstances involved. And here, your approach is to
compare and contrast Beyonce to Janet Jackson based upon albums sold. But during Beyonce's
hey day, albums were simply not being sold as vigorously as they were during Janet Jackson's
hey day, and this is because the marketplace had changed. I'll give you a quick example, again:
in 1987, which is right around when Janet Jackson was probably at her zenith in popularity,
there were no such things as mp3s and/or online piracy/trading. But think of how these features
have caused a seismic shift in how music is distributed which is the era in which Beyonce is
placed. So, you can not so easily compare her album sales to Jackson's and think it is a clear
indication of who is "greater" or "less" than the other.

Take your own logic and apply it to Janet Jackson: if SHE is such a "legendary and iconic invincible
artist" why can't SHE go diamond in the digital era like Adele? And according to the two sources
below, Rihanna has outsold Janet Jackson - not that this means that Rihanna is a greater pop star,
but it certainly goes far in indicating that units sold is not the only criterion in which we can assess
and evaluate "greatness."



Source 1

Source 2