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Reply #60 posted 04/09/17 4:50pm

214

Dasein said:

214 said:

SOTT a little less, but Purple Rain... please. sounds exactly like the 80's music.


Put your money where your mouth is:

name an 1980s album that sounds like Purple Rain.

Any Kiss album sound like Purple Rain and any Guns N Roses

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Reply #61 posted 04/09/17 4:52pm

214

Dasein said:

Scorp said:

If nobody had every heard of Purple Rain and was released for the first time in 2017....

that album would rule longer than it actually did in 1984....


I'm not sure about whether Purple Rain would be more popular today if released in 2017 as opposed
to the 1980s, but that album still sounds fresh and innnovative because Prince was pushing the boun-
daries of R&B and rock and pop via the Minneapolis sound into new frontiers.

As a producer, Prince was more daring and innovative than Quincy Jones, who didn't like to stray too
far off of the OtW and Thriller templates, which is why Bad is so boring, in my opinion. After Purple
Rain, Prince comes out with this Middle-Eastern tinged Sergeant Pepper's psychedelic album that
alienates some of his fans . . . this is something Michael Jackson would have NEVER done but why I
love Prince so fucking much.

Dude had balls.

He would, if not for Thriller, Thriller is both his moment of glory and his greatest curse.

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Reply #62 posted 04/09/17 4:58pm

lool

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Reply #63 posted 04/09/17 5:01pm

Dasein

214 said:

Dasein said:


Put your money where your mouth is:

name an 1980s album that sounds like Purple Rain.

Any Kiss album sound like Purple Rain and any Guns N Roses


No way.

There is too much overt R&B; too much overt Minneappolis sound; and too many synthesizers
on Purple Rain for any 80s Kiss album or Appetite for Destruction to sound similar to it.

I do think it is interesting that you're comparing the genre and sonicscape of Purple Rain to Appetite
for Destruction. Are you a rock fan first and foremost? It's a fair comparison, and an interesting one
because Prince's primary instrument on PR is his axe . . .

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Reply #64 posted 04/09/17 6:02pm

heathilly

214 said:



heathilly said:


Mjs been dead for nearly 1/10th of a century. I really don't see the point of the blind hatred for him. He's dead and decomposed by now what is the point?

He is not, he lives in my heart and the hearts of millions of people.


Well yea his music and spirit but the person is gone I just don't get the people who are so bent on going in on him. He's been gone for nearly decade and they probably never seen him in real life.
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Reply #65 posted 04/09/17 6:04pm

heathilly

214 said:



Dasein said:




Scorp said:


If nobody had every heard of Purple Rain and was released for the first time in 2017....



that album would rule longer than it actually did in 1984....




I'm not sure about whether Purple Rain would be more popular today if released in 2017 as opposed
to the 1980s, but that album still sounds fresh and innnovative because Prince was pushing the boun-
daries of R&B and rock and pop via the Minneapolis sound into new frontiers.

As a producer, Prince was more daring and innovative than Quincy Jones, who didn't like to stray too
far off of the OtW and Thriller templates, which is why Bad is so boring, in my opinion. After Purple
Rain, Prince comes out with this Middle-Eastern tinged Sergeant Pepper's psychedelic album that
alienates some of his fans . . . this is something Michael Jackson would have NEVER done but why I
love Prince so fucking much.

Dude had balls.



He would, if not for Thriller, Thriller is both his moment of glory and his greatest curse.


What about morphine or lil Susie. I feel mj never really had a sound he just attached him self to the popular sound of the day or something he liked and just wrote great pop songs. That's his musical talent in terms of composition to me.
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Reply #66 posted 04/09/17 7:26pm

214

Dasein said:

214 said:

Any Kiss album sound like Purple Rain and any Guns N Roses


No way.

There is too much overt R&B; too much overt Minneappolis sound; and too many synthesizers
on Purple Rain for any 80s Kiss album or Appetite for Destruction to sound similar to it.

I do think it is interesting that you're comparing the genre and sonicscape of Purple Rain to Appetite
for Destruction. Are you a rock fan first and foremost? It's a fair comparison, and an interesting one
because Prince's primary instrument on PR is his axe . . .

Not at all, soul and funk fan first and foremost.

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Reply #67 posted 04/09/17 7:27pm

214

heathilly said:

214 said:

He would, if not for Thriller, Thriller is both his moment of glory and his greatest curse.

What about morphine or lil Susie. I feel mj never really had a sound he just attached him self to the popular sound of the day or something he liked and just wrote great pop songs. That's his musical talent in terms of composition to me.

Yes, and a couple of another songs like Whatever Happens or Shout

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Reply #68 posted 04/10/17 8:06am

Cinny

avatar

lool said:
[Phil Collins reshot album covers were here]

evillol falloff

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Reply #69 posted 04/10/17 12:15pm

namepeace

214 said:

Dasein said:


Put your money where your mouth is:

name an 1980s album that sounds like Purple Rain.

Any Kiss album sound like Purple Rain and any Guns N Roses


Come on, now.

I was a KISS fan as a kid. Never once would I confuse a KISS album for Purple Rain.

Guns N' Roses? Again . . . come on now.

Name one song from either of these bands' 1980s albums that sounds like "The Beautiful Ones," or "When Doves Cry."

KISS -- Unmasked (1980), Songs From The Elder (1981), Creatures of the Night (1982), Lick It Up (1983), Animalize (1984), Asylum (1985), Crazy Nights (1987), Hot In The Shade (1989)

Guns "N Roses -- Appetite for Destruction (1987), G N' R Lies (1988).

[Edited 4/10/17 12:19pm]

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #70 posted 04/10/17 1:51pm

214

namepeace said:

214 said:

Any Kiss album sound like Purple Rain and any Guns N Roses


Come on, now.

I was a KISS fan as a kid. Never once would I confuse a KISS album for Purple Rain.

Guns N' Roses? Again . . . come on now.

Name one song from either of these bands' 1980s albums that sounds like "The Beautiful Ones," or "When Doves Cry."

KISS -- Unmasked (1980), Songs From The Elder (1981), Creatures of the Night (1982), Lick It Up (1983), Animalize (1984), Asylum (1985), Crazy Nights (1987), Hot In The Shade (1989)

Guns "N Roses -- Appetite for Destruction (1987), G N' R Lies (1988).

[Edited 4/10/17 12:19pm]

I won't say anything no no no! . I need my lawyer.

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Reply #71 posted 04/10/17 3:28pm

Adorecream

avatar

namepeace said:

214 said:

Any Kiss album sound like Purple Rain and any Guns N Roses


Come on, now.

I was a KISS fan as a kid. Never once would I confuse a KISS album for Purple Rain.

Guns N' Roses? Again . . . come on now.

Name one song from either of these bands' 1980s albums that sounds like "The Beautiful Ones," or "When Doves Cry."

KISS -- Unmasked (1980), Songs From The Elder (1981), Creatures of the Night (1982), Lick It Up (1983), Animalize (1984), Asylum (1985), Crazy Nights (1987), Hot In The Shade (1989)

Guns "N Roses -- Appetite for Destruction (1987), G N' R Lies (1988).

[Edited 4/10/17 12:19pm]

Insulting Purple Rain and Prince, Kiss are brainless shit, ironic given they were the nerdiest Jews possible before becoming demons and cats. Kiss are up there with Presley as the most overrated shit in history.

Songs from the elder is considered their worst album along with most of their 80s output, so comparing it to Purple Rain is sad.

.

Comparing Purple Rain to hard rock music like Guns and Roses is ridiculous.

Prince - Love4oneanother
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Reply #72 posted 04/10/17 3:29pm

Adorecream

avatar

lool said:

He does not change, even whe he was in his 30s he looked like a grizzled lipless man in his 70s.

Prince - Love4oneanother
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Reply #73 posted 04/10/17 3:54pm

Dasein

MattyJam said:

Dasein said:



Off the Wall and (for the most-part) Thriller both sound very contemporary, to me. Of course, the former has some disco-friendly arrangements, but the actual production sounds are no different from an album in that style recorded today. Likewise, Thriller doesn't sound anything like most white-pop or even soul-pop issued in 1982/83. The reason? The outstanding arrangments and production (and to some extent, musicians) controlled by Quincy Jones. By contrast, on Bad, Quincy is partly sidelined to allow Michael's production indulgences of 80s' drum-sounds and pseudo-'urban' beats with then-trendy synthesized keyboards, and the result is a horribly dated sound. It was released in 1987, and by about 1989 it sounded old.

Bad gets a bad wrap.

It's noteable to me how you praise Quincy for the great production work on OTW and Thriller and act as if MJ had nothing to do with those albums, but give Q a free pass for the "horribly dated" production on Bad and lump all the blame for that on Michael's doorstep. Michael's involvement on Thriller as a co-producer is well-documented. You only have to take one listen to his home demo of Billie Jean to hear who was the brains behind the masterful production job on that song. Take a listen to MJ's home demo of Don't Stop Til You Get Enough which was recorded in the Jackson family Encino home studio long before Quincy heard it. It sounds just as fresh, vibrant and relevant as the finished product.

Is "Bad" the MJ album that sounds most "of-its-time"? Probably. But why should that be held against it? Does Nirvana's landmark album "Nevermind" not sound unmistakably like an early nineties grunge record? Does Prince's much-lauded "1999" album not sound like an early 80s synth-pop inspired record? Or how about The Beatles "Rubbel Soul"? Does that not sound just like the kind of folk-rock that was popular in the mid-sixties?

Why is Bad singled out for being "dated", when these other classic records are every bit as strongly defined by the trends and fashions of the time they were made?

And if we're discussing albums that haven't aged well, lets compare Bad to those other albums. Walk down the street and ask the average Joe how many songs from "1999" they recognise. Two maybe? Little Red Corvette and the title track. What about Nevermind? Everyone knows Smells Like Teen Spirit and most people would know of Come As You Are, but I don't think many non-Nirvana fans would be able to hum you anything else from Nevermind. Now ask them if they remember Smooth Criminal, Man In The Mirror, Bad, The Way You Make Me Feel and Dirty Diana. If Bad has aged so horribly, why are so many of the albums tracks so fondly remembered? More so than any MJ album, Bad has the largest amount of classic MJ tracks. Pick up any MJ greatest hits package, and I wager you will find more Bad tracks on it than Thriller or OTW.

With a truly great song, it matters not if the production is dated. With songs as legendary as Smooth Criminal and Man In The Mirror, the melody, the words, the vocal performance and the atmosphere of the song still translates and resonates with people to this day, hence their massive popularity. Who cares if "Bad" sounds like an album from 1987? Guess what? It WAS an album from 1987. And a bloody great one that is still beloved by many to this day.


Are you sure I was the poster of said response attributed to me? I don't think so . . . hmmm

Bad gets a bad wrap from me (no pun intended) because Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones didn't
try anything new but appeared to have relied upon the template established with OtW and Thriller.
So, what Prince did after PR was truly remarkable, if you think about how Jackson and Jones played
it safe.

And you're confusing "popularity" with "aging" in your highly speculative example of above where
you walk down the street and ask people about various albums and songs . . .

Speaking of 1999 and Nevermind, was Michael Jackson ever on the forefront of pioneering and/or
establishing a new sound? Prince (Minneapolis Sound) and Nirvana (Seattle Grunge Sound) were
artists/bands responsible for ushering in a new sound into pop radio. Michael Jackson did not. And
before y'all burn me in effigy, Michael Jackson was the greatest pop entertainer of all time and one
of the most influential pop musicians of all time. But think about it: Thriller's production values
are heard in George Benson's Give Me the Night produced by you know who. Bad is Thriller but
with not much change in production. Dangerous is MJ getting on board with New Jack Swing which
is already popular - and so on, and so forth.



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Reply #74 posted 04/10/17 3:57pm

Dasein

Adorecream said:

namepeace said:


Come on, now.

I was a KISS fan as a kid. Never once would I confuse a KISS album for Purple Rain.

Guns N' Roses? Again . . . come on now.

Name one song from either of these bands' 1980s albums that sounds like "The Beautiful Ones," or "When Doves Cry."

KISS -- Unmasked (1980), Songs From The Elder (1981), Creatures of the Night (1982), Lick It Up (1983), Animalize (1984), Asylum (1985), Crazy Nights (1987), Hot In The Shade (1989)

Guns "N Roses -- Appetite for Destruction (1987), G N' R Lies (1988).

[Edited 4/10/17 12:19pm]

Comparing Purple Rain to hard rock music like Guns and Roses is ridiculous.


I don't think it's ridiculous.

The guitars on PR's rock-ier numbers hit hard, just like they do on Appetite for Destruction. For ex-
ample, the guitar aplomb in "Let's Go Crazy" ain't too far off from Slash's debut work.

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Reply #75 posted 04/11/17 12:53am

EmmaMcG

Adorecream said:

Of course they will sound dated, every album is a product of the era it comes from. Bad sounds like it is from 1987, because it was released in 1987, but it is still great. I mean who sets out to make music now or in the past and thinks "I want to make it, so it sounds fresh in 2047"


.


Diamonds and Pearls sounds 1991 ish (Or even 1989 ish in someways) because Prince taped it back in 1989/1990. Albums can be dated at release, as before the whole autotune, home studio computer era, most good albums took several months to write, record and market. It was common for an artist to be made to wait several months before an album would drop (Prince had to wait for WB all the time, as they were worried about Prince product saturating the market, the satellites were at least a bit more helpful, as their albums were essentially Prince music by other performers) and often Prince had lost interest in a project and moved on, by the time it finally dropped.


.


Music that dates the worst to me, are trend songs, that really date super quickly. Think about it, would you listen to novelties like the Thong Song and Mambo #5 now, or even the Dougie song and Silento's watch me (Who is silento you ask, but 18 months ago, he was the hottest rapper out), or PSY anyone, that aspic preserved 2012 oldie.


.


I also thik trends in music date badly in many cases, Bubblegum music of all stamps dates quickly, from Twist dance rip offs, to the Monkees, The Bay City Rollers, Bros and NKOTB and Back door boys, no one would listen to that shit now. Also all grunge and hair metal except GNR is laughable. Even some of the swear heavy acts of the 1990s like RATM, Marilyn Manson and RHCP are dated now.


.


To me the only music that does not date is classic music like The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Eagles, Led Zeppelin, Sly Stone, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, Prince etc.


.


99% of the current pop hot on the charts does, who will be listening to Beyonce, Lil Wayne, Rhianna, Jayz or Katy perry in 25 years - no one. Just like no one listens to Ugly Kid Joe, Icy Blu, Blu Cantrell, Warrant, Wilson Philips or any other forgettable crap from 26 years ago now.


.


And finally a big FUCK YOU to the clown who thinks Bad has aged and dated, that album is as fresh and funky now as it was 29½ years ago, play it loud and the infectious dance and synth pop, along with Michael's powerhouse vocals will get you.

[Edited 4/9/17 15:34pm]



I was with you until you said no one listens to Warrant. I listen to Warrant. smile
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Reply #76 posted 04/11/17 5:06am

Adorecream

avatar

EmmaMcG said:

Adorecream said:

I was with you until you said no one listens to Warrant. I listen to Warrant. smile

Feel bad now, they were pretty gnarly around 1990 - Cherry Pie is a great song, but really that and 1989's Heaven which is a pure Poison homage, is all they really had.

Prince - Love4oneanother
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Reply #77 posted 04/11/17 6:34am

TheFman

Albums by artists that haven't aged well?

I guess so, 3/4 of your list is dead...

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Reply #78 posted 04/19/17 10:23pm

POOK

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:

I'd have to disagree with some of those. BAD is still a technically perfect album. And frankly the versions on the first pressing make it highly superior. Over time, about half the album had 7" edits replacing the original album versions.

The problem with Whitney's album is that it sounds dated. The songs are great, but like an early Taylor Dayne album, it's stuck in the late 80s.

D&P always suffered from two things: Prince following trends, and Tony M.

20 Y.O. was never that great to begin with. Dupri fucked that album harder than he was fucking Janet.

To that list, I'd add:

  • anything by The Presidents of the United States of America
  • any Jon Secada album
  • most Michael Bolton albums
  • Madonna True Blue never had that many great songs on it, and the 1986/7 production keeps it locked in the past.
  • Graffiti Bridge suffers from a production sound, not a Prince sound

To MotownSub - click the image icon in the editing area (it's the photo of the tree to the left of the omega symbol), and just drop that URL in the box, then click Insert. Your pic might not show up at first, but if you just hit enter in the dialog box here, it'll show up.

WOW TRIVIAL NOT KIDDING

Re-issues of Bad feature a number of changes when compared to the original 1987 release:

  • "Bad" – The original mix was replaced with the 7" single mix. The most notable difference is the lack of horns in all the choruses except for the last two. Horns are also missing from the second and third pre-choruses. The rhythm guitar during the choruses is also turned up along with the hi-hats.
  • "The Way You Make Me Feel" – The full-length remix used for the single with louder vocals and ad libs added to the end replaced the original album mix.
  • "I Just Can't Stop Loving You" omits Michael Jackson's spoken intro.
  • "Dirty Diana" is replaced with the single edit of the song.
  • "Smooth Criminal" went through two changes on the album. It was remixed to make the kick drum heavier and the bass synth fatter. The quick-sequenced synclavier behind the bass has been rendered mono as well. The first version of this mix left the breathing intact, but was later removed after some time.
  • "Leave Me Alone" wasn't included on the original vinyl nor cassette releases but was included on the CD release and now is included in all releases. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_(album)


P o o |/,
P o o |\
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Reply #79 posted 04/21/17 9:44am

2045RadicalMat
tZ

I've always LOVED MJ's DANGEROUS - grew up with it.. it has timely NJS style but it also captures moodiness... especially WHO IS IT?

But on BAD?... Aside from the GODAWFUL (again???!!) Collaboration with Stevie Wonder - 'just good friends' ... I think the album is full of "natural sounds" that keep it from getting too off track and "sterile"... even the one's that scream 80's : "Speed Demon" and "Leave Me Alone" really utilize the sounds to express the content of the song.

If you re-arrange a lot of the album you'll see the primary influence of James Brown once again....

Usually dated owns up to the production phases "in vogue" at the time....

Any artist who gained notoriety prior to the 1980's and put their hat in the 1980's pop caravan/bandwagon will have a few dated albums... ESPECIALLY the ROLLING STONES... their disco era crap, and 80's self indulgent crap almost lost the rock and roll feeling

Also:

Stevie Wonder - IN SQUARE CIRCLE (overrjoyed was written in the 70's -doesn't count)/ CHARACTERS = those all sound horribly tinny. The artificial drums kill the depth of the songs' possibilities [never heard these on vinyl however - IF there is a difference [emerging D/D/D digital recordings]

Nearly ALL of Merle Haggard's 1980's output (put Dolly Parton in there too)

Anything by:

SCRITTI POLITTI, GUY, Bruce Springsteen *& The E -Street Band (when he went solo he dropped this cheese), YES - 90125, QUEEN (1st side of HOT SPACE- mostly crud), DURAN DURAN - Seven and The Ragged Tiger/NOTORIOUS, Genesis - INVISIBLE TOUCH, INXS - KICK...

well... maybe EVERYTHING sounds "DATED"...

you couldn't tell me that a Frankie Avalon record or Frankie Valli, Funkadelic, Bee Gees (60's), Bee Gees (70's) album doesn't sound "DATED" or of its era

same for the DOORS, CHUCK BERRY, Tony Bennett, Johnny Mathis, Frank Sinatra, The Temptations, Marvin Gaye, LITTLE RICHARD..... Frankie LYMON or hell even Frankie Beverly and MAZE (exhudes 70's)....

Hair metal, grunge... blast beat metal... cheesey fake "emo screemo metal"

all that stuff sounds "dated"

Same as the Beatles (early era)....

maybe the definition would be more suited to "which albums sound TIMELESS"?

I dunno

[Edited 4/21/17 9:59am]

"Damn Dolores, pick another subject, please...introduce the carpet to something other than your knees...."
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Reply #80 posted 04/24/17 1:58pm

TheFman

I don't think Bad just followed where Thriller left off. Imo there's a serious style break there and they can't be even compared. Thriller was so much closer to OTW than to Bad, what had not too much in common style-wise.
But even when MJ wouldn't have made a mockery of his own image, no way that would have broken the records set by Thriller.
Bad -the song- was back then something spectacularly good (in a spectacularly good musical year) but alone on itself wasn't enough to put it into eternal praise. (most of) The rest of the album contains big hits and such, but nothing what touches the greatness of the best Thriller-songs.
It was also his last great album. Newer albums had occassionally very nice songs but as a whole, nah.
But while Bad was at one side a surprise what concerns style (and a break with Thriller imo, not the 'next Thriller'), on the other side it was no suprprise that MJ didn't come up with his own SOTT, but nobody was even excepting that, of course. He stayed in his safe zone.

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Reply #81 posted 05/15/17 3:05pm

moonsister

.
[Edited 5/15/17 15:07pm]
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