The same rules that apply to Thriller and Bad apply to all other albums on the charts. No need to diminish the accomplishments of the juggernaut that is Thriller.

cherishtheday said:

The same rules that apply to Thriller and Bad apply to all other albums on the charts. No need to diminish the accomplishments of the juggernaut that is Thriller.

allot of fans want Bad to be Thriller

and Bad could have been Thriller if things didn't turn so "bad"

Bad was seeking a thrill of its own selling 16 million copies worldwide 2 months after its release

But then the thrill stopped.

MotownSubdivision said:

Bad had no chance of topping Thriller but was still a great commercial success. 5 #1s, a top 10 and a single that just missed the top 10 is impressive. Not to mention the tour associated with the album which was the highest grossing tour of its time. It is surprising that it took this long for Bad to go Diamond but even so that's just US sales. 30 million + worldwide is nothing to sneeze at and it's baffling how some people try to make Michael having an enormous fanbase outside the States sound like a bad thing.

The most anticipated follow up album in music history was in perfect position to surpass its predecessor in sales....

this is the paradoxical element of them all.

Based on the enormous following Michael Jackson had just garnered by created the largest selling record of all time.

If he maintained that following along with garnering a new generation of fans, Bad would have outsold Thriller......it was on pace to surpass it by a mile during those initial 2 months of release.

Or I should say, whatever his followup was going to turn out to be should have outsold it

MJ was in the very prime of his career and the leading recording artist on the landscape

With a debut world tour, and two VHS music specials to back it, along with the support from radio outlets across the country

the international following was not the issue, he had that with OTW, and he had a global following with Thriller, had more of a global following with Thriller than any of his follow ups

The problem was the domestic sales

to say Bad had no chance of topping Thriller, when everything was in place for that to happen, that doesn't take into account how important his domestic support was, a body of support he tried to regain time and time again.......espcially when he released Invincible

[Edited 2/18/17 13:01pm]

Scorp said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Scorp said:

The most anticipated follow up album in music history was in perfect position to surpass its predecessor in sales....

this is the paradoxical element of them all.

Based on the enormous following Michael Jackson had just garnered by created the largest selling record of all time.

If he maintained that following along with garnering a new generation of fans, Bad would have outsold Thriller......it was on pace to surpass it by a mile during those initial 2 months of release.

Or I should say, whatever his followup was going to turn out to be should have outsold it

MJ was in the very prime of his career and the leading recording artist on the landscape

With a debut world tour, and two VHS music specials to back it, along with the support from radio outlets across the country

the international following was not the issue, he had that with OTW, and he had a global following with Thriller, had more of a global following with Thriller than any of his follow ups

The problem was the domestic sales

to say Bad had no chance of topping Thriller, when everything was in place for that to happen, that doesn't take into account how important his domestic support was, a body of support he tried to regain time and time again.......espcially when he released Invincible

[Edited 2/18/17 13:01pm]

Was everything really in place for Bad to outsell Thriller or was it just that people had outlandish expectations? Bad sold far less than expected (lower still when you factor in Mike's goal of selling 100 million copies) but it wasn't a commercial failure outside of selling less than Thriller which realistically people should not have held thwir breath for. When discussing this, people seem to forget that it wasn't expected for MJ to top OTW's commercial success and he did so many, many, many times over with Thriller which is the true example of catching lightning in a bottle. In retrospect, many just expected him to do it twice and were disappointed when he didn't. [Edited 2/18/17 14:07pm]

it wasn't outlandish to think that or to presume that

just as it wasn't outlandish for MJ to think or proclaim Thriller would be the become the best selling of all time based on what he had garnered up to that point......

it wasn't a lightning in a bottle, I don't think MJ ever thought that when he went in that recording studio and worked on it, it was a culimination of what had been cultivated over a 15 year period that made that possible.....

when you achieve something like that, that's not a luck of the draw or some whim, or some coincidence because if that's the case, after all these years afterwards, then someone would have made an album that would have surpassed Thriller in sales

Bad sold 16 million copies worldwide the first 2 months of its release and from that point on to the album's run through early 95, the album sold 9 million

That should not have happened......if he maintains his domestic support, Bad would have outsold Thriller, because the momentum would have been generated and fed off of the domestic support

at the prime of his solo career, Thriller should not have been the pinnacle

to say it was unreasonable to see that Bad could outsell Thriller, is to take the onus of how important his domestic sales were, even as he becamse an exclusive international artist by the time the 90s hit

the domestic support was key and vital, and if he had maintained it, all of his albums after Thriller would have sold more than they did

and in an attempt to regain the domestic support he knew he had lost, that's why he initiated those interviews with Oprah in 1993 and Diane Sawyer in 1995

this is why fans of the past 20 years always try and back his later work with DAngerous and HIstory because deep down, they know those albums should have sold more based on what his stature was that was established with Thriller.

and what's most ironic when that domestic support waned, that's when he became known as "The King of Pop"...

[Edited 2/19/17 12:48pm]

Mj became a freak and a weirdo IN THE MEDIA

between thriller and Bad..

by the time BAD came out everybody

was talkng about his changing face and him wanting to turn himself white.

FACT!

"The last four years have not been a good time for Michael Jackson. Since Thriller and the Jacksons’ disastrous Victory tour, he has managed to generate the most powerful backlash in the history of popular entertainment."

Link-------> http://www.spin.com/2014/...ver-story/

Scorp said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Bad had no chance of topping Thriller but was still a great commercial success. 5 #1s, a top 10 and a single that just missed the top 10 is impressive. Not to mention the tour associated with the album which was the highest grossing tour of its time. It is surprising that it took this long for Bad to go Diamond but even so that's just US sales. 30 million + worldwide is nothing to sneeze at and it's baffling how some people try to make Michael having an enormous fanbase outside the States sound like a bad thing.

The most anticipated follow up album in music history was in perfect position to surpass its predecessor in sales....

this is the paradoxical element of them all.

Based on the enormous following Michael Jackson had just garnered by created the largest selling record of all time.

If he maintained that following along with garnering a new generation of fans, Bad would have outsold Thriller......it was on pace to surpass it by a mile during those initial 2 months of release.

Or I should say, whatever his followup was going to turn out to be should have outsold it

MJ was in the very prime of his career and the leading recording artist on the landscape

With a debut world tour, and two VHS music specials to back it, along with the support from radio outlets across the country

the international following was not the issue, he had that with OTW, and he had a global following with Thriller, had more of a global following with Thriller than any of his follow ups

The problem was the domestic sales

to say Bad had no chance of topping Thriller, when everything was in place for that to happen, that doesn't take into account how important his domestic support was, a body of support he tried to regain time and time again.......espcially when he released Invincible

[Edited 2/19/17 17:50pm]

MD431Madcat said:

Mj became a freak and a weirdo IN THE MEDIA

between thriller and Bad..

by the time BAD came out everybody

was talkng about his changing face and him wanting to turn himself white.

FACT!

"The last four years have not been a good time for Michael Jackson. Since Thriller and the Jacksons’ disastrous Victory tour, he has managed to generate the most powerful backlash in the history of popular entertainment."

Link-------> http://www.spin.com/2014/...ver-story/

Scorp said:

The most anticipated follow up album in music history was in perfect position to surpass its predecessor in sales....

this is the paradoxical element of them all.

Based on the enormous following Michael Jackson had just garnered by created the largest selling record of all time.

If he maintained that following along with garnering a new generation of fans, Bad would have outsold Thriller......it was on pace to surpass it by a mile during those initial 2 months of release.

Or I should say, whatever his followup was going to turn out to be should have outsold it

MJ was in the very prime of his career and the leading recording artist on the landscape

With a debut world tour, and two VHS music specials to back it, along with the support from radio outlets across the country

the international following was not the issue, he had that with OTW, and he had a global following with Thriller, had more of a global following with Thriller than any of his follow ups

The problem was the domestic sales

to say Bad had no chance of topping Thriller, when everything was in place for that to happen, that doesn't take into account how important his domestic support was, a body of support he tried to regain time and time again.......espcially when he released Invincible

[Edited 2/19/17 17:50pm]

I read this article in the past....

this article was written in 1987 but the article says "the last 4 years have not been a good time" since Thriller....

if we do the math, then this conclusion would have to include the year 1983....

1983 was the very heart of Thriller's run when MJ released all those groundbreaking videos, when he did Motown 25, when he was dropping one unforgettable moment after the other.......

I never believed he should have done the Victory Tour, the timing wasn't right for that, and it was not the Jacksons best show but it was not a disaster either

yeah, he suffered the burn accident in 1984, but that was the same year he racked up all those Grammys

and 1985 sure seemed like a great year considering the critical acclaim he received for participating in the USA for Africa project and co-writing We Are The World

and in 1986, in terms of the musical output, I don't recall any backlash when he released that Captain EO at those Disney theme parks........that received high praise

and this article said during the early years, apparantly before MJ released OTW in 1979, all the brothers recording solo albums that were failures...........by the time the brothers were all adults, the only brother who had a solo album during the time of OTW was Jermaine Jackson with Let's Get Serious in 1980, and that record was a success on the R&B charts......

and of course, when Bad was released and he looked extreme different, of course people were going to react, because that was a human nature reaction, and that's the root of the backlash....

take that out the equation, he would have been good to go for as long as he wished

[Edited 2/19/17 19:33pm]

BAD outsold THRILLER in the UK.

Just like DANGEROUS outsold BAD in France and in numerous countries

Just like HISTORY outsold DANGEROUS in Japan.

.

The problem with MJ was only in the USA, worldwide, his sales were always bigger and bigger.

In terms of catalogue sales, Michael will sell for ages, as Elvis, the Beatles, Sinatra, and a select few popular music legends will. Most other popular music legends will fall a notch or two below, even those like Madonna who'll still do big numbers.

Prince was so prolific I see his peers from a catalogue sales standpoint as jazz artists, not pop artists. Like Prince, the jazz legends had a catalogue equaling dozens or more albums. In the decades after their deaths, their catalogues were curated and mined for volume. The same will happen with Prince, but again, he's different.

But I'd think MJ is creme-de-la-creme in terms of catalogue power. Thriller and Bad are out and out monsters and will continue to be for a long time to come.

Scorp said:

MD431Madcat said:

Mj became a freak and a weirdo IN THE MEDIA

between thriller and Bad..

by the time BAD came out everybody

was talkng about his changing face and him wanting to turn himself white.

FACT!

"The last four years have not been a good time for Michael Jackson. Since Thriller and the Jacksons’ disastrous Victory tour, he has managed to generate the most powerful backlash in the history of popular entertainment."

Link-------> http://www.spin.com/2014/...ver-story/

[Edited 2/19/17 17:50pm]

I read this article in the past....

this article was written in 1987 but the article says "the last 4 years have not been a good time" since Thriller....

if we do the math, then this conclusion would have to include the year 1983....

1983 was the very heart of Thriller's run when MJ released all those groundbreaking videos, when he did Motown 25, when he was dropping one unforgettable moment after the other.......

I never believed he should have done the Victory Tour, the timing wasn't right for that, and it was not the Jacksons best show but it was not a disaster either

yeah, he suffered the burn accident in 1984, but that was the same year he racked up all those Grammys

and 1985 sure seemed like a great year considering the critical acclaim he received for participating in the USA for Africa project and co-writing We Are The World

and in 1986, in terms of the musical output, I don't recall any backlash when he released that Captain EO at those Disney theme parks........that received high praise

and this article said during the early years, apparantly before MJ released OTW in 1979, all the brothers recording solo albums that were failures...........by the time the brothers were all adults, the only brother who had a solo album during the time of OTW was Jermaine Jackson with Let's Get Serious in 1980, and that record was a success on the R&B charts......

and of course, when Bad was released and he looked extreme different, of course people were going to react, because that was a human nature reaction, and that's the root of the backlash....

take that out the equation, he would have been good to go for as long as he wished

[Edited 2/19/17 19:33pm]

The Victory tour itself was not so bad, it was the management.

Managed by serial clown Don King, it was riddled with greed incompetence and mutual distrust. Michael did not want to do it and pressured into it by his greedy and less talented brothers. Whereas to that time Michael was doing well and not spending all his money on drugs and antiques, the brothers were bouncing from one bad relationship to another, shooting out babies and living a champagne lifestyle on a Nighttrain budget.

.

Each brother got 3 million or something and Joe and Katherine got 1.8 million or something (I am not a whiz with exact figures, but the money would have subsidised their dissoulte lifestyles for another year.

.

The tour original had a mail order system where blocks of 4 tickets had to be bought and they were sold in a lottery system, so some puchasers who sent money orders for $120 ($30 per ticket, a record cost in 1984) may have missed out. A 11 year old girl called "Ladonna Jones" (I shit you not, they had ghetto ass names back them), complained about how she had scrimped and saved $30 for a ticket. It upset Michael who demanded the system end, and a new system of $30 a ticket and everyone who sends cash gets a ticket. Of course Don King and the brothers were pissed off as Michael's new rule meant they got less money, but knew no Michael =no show. There was also numerous threats of pull outs.

.

Publicity was worsened by the hair burning incident for sponsor Pepsi (Although a Jackson endorsement of Pepsi saw it briefly leap ahead of Coke in the cola wars, but also as New Coke bombed and Coca Cola recovered when Classic was reintroduced in mid 1985 - Coke apparently went after Prince to counter the Jacksons, but like MJ, Prince did not like sugary drinks or endorsing stuff fullstop).

.

The Victory album was a fracas, not being released until right on the tour and really had few good songs (Torture is decent), especially compared to the 2 previous albums, the superstar duet between MJ and Freddie Mercury became Mick Jagger, whose talents were spread way thin by 1984 and was seen as an insipid has been, long before the Steel Wheels come back. Also the video showed them singing to a cardboard cutout of Michael. None of the album was played on the tour, but still went platinum and a Jermaine album also went gold, as a song they did was only on that. Meanwhile in 1984 Thriller sold at least 10 million more copies, only 2nd behind Purple Rain.

.

The tour itself was successful, but over hyped, they only played about 57 shows over 5 months, with an average of 2 or 3 shows a week and long breaks between cities. By the end it was not selling out. There was endless disputes and some brothers not showing up including the then veteran aged Jackie (33) needing time off for knee surgery. Also too the show played no Victory tracks and a lot of it was Michael solo material at the detriment of his brothers. By then end, Prince's Purple Rain tour was drawing the crowds from early November onwards.

.

Overall the tour was a success, but the experiences had were so bad, another one was never done and it took a lot of persuasion to get MJ to do the Moonie tour in 1988, which finally did not go ahead and cost Branca, Phillips and Dileo their jobs. The brothers blew through their money in a year and the 1989 album 2300 Jackson street was Kolossal flop.

[Edited 2/20/17 14:55pm]

I have always felt that it was a mistake for Michael to do that tour.I think,after Off The Wall,he shouldn't have worked with his brothers again.That album should have been his declaration of independence.He was a solo superstar at that point and should have remained so.The Victory tour was nothing more than his brothers trying to piggyback on MJ's amazing Thriller success.I bet that most fans who attended that tour didn't go to see anyone besides Michael.It's clear that his heart and soul was not in that tour.On the album,he chose a big superstar (Mick Jagger) to sing "State Of Shock" with.....instead of one of the brothers.Then he refused to appear in the "Torture" and "Body" videos with his brothers.What does that tell you?

Adorecream said:

The Victory tour itself was not so bad, it was the management.

Managed by serial clown Don King, it was riddled with greed incompetence and mutual distrust. Michael did not want to do it and pressured into it by his greedy and less talented brothers. Whereas to that time Michael was doing well and not spending all his money on drugs and antiques, the brothers were bouncing from one bad relationship to another, shooting out babies and living a champagne lifestyle on a Nighttrain budget.

SoulAlive said:

I have always felt that it was a mistake for Michael to do that tour.I think,after Off The Wall,he shouldn't have worked with his brothers again.That album should have been his declaration of independence.He was a solo superstar at that point and should have remained so.The Victory tour was nothing more than his brothers trying to piggyback on MJ's amazing Thriller success.I bet that most fans who attended that tour didn't go to see anyone besides Michael.It's clear that his heart and soul was not in that tour.On the album,he chose a big superstar (Mick Jagger) to sing "State Of Shock" with.....instead of one of the brothers.Then he refused to appear in the "Torture" and "Body" videos with his brothers.What does that tell you?

Adorecream said:

The Victory tour itself was not so bad, it was the management.

Managed by serial clown Don King, it was riddled with greed incompetence and mutual distrust. Michael did not want to do it and pressured into it by his greedy and less talented brothers. Whereas to that time Michael was doing well and not spending all his money on drugs and antiques, the brothers were bouncing from one bad relationship to another, shooting out babies and living a champagne lifestyle on a Nighttrain budget.

I never felt the Victory Tour shouldn't have happened when it did, but not because of the narrative that's being thrown out in the present day.....

He did deserve to celebrate the Thriller album by doing a solo tour.....no doubt about that......that should have been a solo tour

BUT, I ain't trashing the brothers either......because

1.) even though the Bad tour showed MJ as the consummate entertainer and he gave excellent shows, and even though he did the Dangerous Tour and the History.......none of those solo tours compared to that Jacksons 1981 Triumph Tour.....I saw that show live and a great deal of the staging concepts Michael used in his solo tours derived from the Triumph Tour, concepts that were conceived by all the brothers........

that light torch that MJ featured mightily while performing the title track to History during the HIstory Tour, that same concept was featured during the triumph tour with Randy holding up the torch

and whatever people say about his brothers........none of those background dancers MJ selected for those solo tours can stick those dance steps like his brothers did. I watched those solo tours, I saw that 92 HBO Special of his Dangerous Tour in Bucharest, Romania........and his brothers could have aced those steps better than those background dancers could.........and the background singer who sang Jermaine's vocal for I'll Be There, although it was solid, wasn't like Jermaine singing it

those 2001 MSG Concerts when his brothers performed on stage with him....when Michael brought NSYNC to the stage, NSYNC as young men couldn't keep up with MJ's brothers who are now thought of as leeches.......anyone can pull that footage up on youtube and those men in their 50s had more energy than NSYNC did....

MJ felt having NSYNC perform with him would validate him some kind of way, but his 50 some year old brothers were a step ahead

[Edited 2/20/17 15:29pm]

HAPPYPERSON said:

http://www.billboard.com/...fied-album





Michael Jackson's 'Thriller' Extends Reign as Highest Certified Album in U.S. History
2/16/2017 by Keith Caulfield


The seminal 1982 album passes the 33-times platinum mark.


Michael Jackson’s blockbuster album Thriller just keeps on getting bigger. The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) has certified the set at 33-times platinum in the U.S., extending Thriller’s record as the highest certified album in history.


That means Thriller -- released in 1982 -- has earned 33 million equivalent album units in the U.S. That sum blends traditional album sales (one album sale equals one unit), tracks sold from an album (10 tracks sold equals one unit) and on-demand audio and/or video streams (1,500 streams equals one unit).


A plaque commemorating the milestone was presented at the home of Epic Records chairman Antonio "L.A." Reid over Grammy weekend, where Sony Music CEO Doug Morris, Columbia Records chairman and incoming Sony Music CEO Rob Stringer, Sony president, commercial group Richard Storey, attorneys Karen Langford and John Branca toasted the certification.


The RIAA revamped its Gold & Platinum Awards Program on Feb. 1, 2016, growing from a pure album sales certification process to one that includes tracks and streams. That same day, Thriller’s certification was raised from 30 million to 32 million.


Thriller continues to maintain its place as the highest-certified album ever, ahead of Eagles’ Their Greatest Hits 1971-1975, with 29 million. (It was last certified on Jan. 30, 2006.)


Thriller was released through Sony Music Entertainment’s Epic Records and spent 37 nonconsecutive weeks at No. 1 on the Billboard 200 albums chart. The mega-successful set was the first to generate a record seven top 10 singles on the Billboard Hot 100 chart, including two No. 1s: “Billie Jean” (No. 1 for seven weeks) and “Beat It” (No. 1 for three weeks). In 2015, Thriller was named the biggest album of all time by a male artist on the Billboard 200 chart, and the No. 3 title overall.


Simultaneous with Thriller’s raised certification, its follow-up, Bad, climbs to 10-times platinum (the RIAA’s Diamond award). Jackson is one of just 22 acts with more than one Diamond-certified album.


Representatives for Sony and Jackson’s estate say that Thriller has sold 105 million copies globally.

Look at all those people who worked on the album accepting that award. Lol.

As someone that personally witnessed the Jacksons 1981 Triumph tour..

I politely disagree with you..

the BAD tour is often regarded as MJ's best Tour..

and i would agree if i hadn't also seen the 1981 Triumph tour..

Michael never again sang as well or performed with that much SOUL!

I think he wasn't ready to leave just yet and he was getting his act together BIG-TIME!

SoulAlive said:

I have always felt that it was a mistake for Michael to do that tour.I think,after Off The Wall,he shouldn't have worked with his brothers again.That album should have been his declaration of independence.He was a solo superstar at that point and should have remained so.The Victory tour was nothing more than his brothers trying to piggyback on MJ's amazing Thriller success.I bet that most fans who attended that tour didn't go to see anyone besides Michael.It's clear that his heart and soul was not in that tour.On the album,he chose a big superstar (Mick Jagger) to sing "State Of Shock" with.....instead of one of the brothers.Then he refused to appear in the "Torture" and "Body" videos with his brothers.What does that tell you?

Adorecream said:

The Victory tour itself was not so bad, it was the management.

Managed by serial clown Don King, it was riddled with greed incompetence and mutual distrust. Michael did not want to do it and pressured into it by his greedy and less talented brothers. Whereas to that time Michael was doing well and not spending all his money on drugs and antiques, the brothers were bouncing from one bad relationship to another, shooting out babies and living a champagne lifestyle on a Nighttrain budget.

[Edited 2/20/17 17:39pm]

Scorp said:

SoulAlive said:

I have always felt that it was a mistake for Michael to do that tour.I think,after Off The Wall,he shouldn't have worked with his brothers again.That album should have been his declaration of independence.He was a solo superstar at that point and should have remained so.The Victory tour was nothing more than his brothers trying to piggyback on MJ's amazing Thriller success.I bet that most fans who attended that tour didn't go to see anyone besides Michael.It's clear that his heart and soul was not in that tour.On the album,he chose a big superstar (Mick Jagger) to sing "State Of Shock" with.....instead of one of the brothers.Then he refused to appear in the "Torture" and "Body" videos with his brothers.What does that tell you?

I never felt the Victory Tour shouldn't have happened when it did, but not because of the narrative that's being thrown out in the present day.....

He did deserve to celebrate the Thriller album by doing a solo tour.....no doubt about that......that should have been a solo tour

BUT, I ain't trashing the brothers either......because

1.) even though the Bad tour showed MJ as the consummate entertainer and he gave excellent shows, and even though he did the Dangerous Tour and the History.......none of those solo tours compared to that Jacksons 1981 Triumph Tour.....I saw that show live and a great deal of the staging concepts Michael used in his solo tours derived from the Triumph Tour, concepts that were conceived by all the brothers........

that light torch that MJ featured mightily while performing the title track to History during the HIstory Tour, that same concept was featured during the triumph tour with Randy holding up the torch

and whatever people say about his brothers........none of those background dancers MJ selected for those solo tours can stick those dance steps like his brothers did. I watched those solo tours, I saw that 92 HBO Special of his Dangerous Tour in Bucharest, Romania........and his brothers could have aced those steps better than those background dancers could.........and the background singer who sang Jermaine's vocal for I'll Be There, although it was solid, wasn't like Jermaine singing it

those 2001 MSG Concerts when his brothers performed on stage with him....when Michael brought NSYNC to the stage, NSYNC as young men couldn't keep up with MJ's brothers who are now thought of as leeches.......anyone can pull that footage up on youtube and those men in their 50s had more energy than NSYNC did....

MJ felt having NSYNC perform with him would validate him some kind of way, but his 50 some year old brothers were a step ahead

[Edited 2/20/17 15:29pm]

If I remember correctly, it was the promoter's (David Gest) idea to have NSYNC

Like with so many performances, Michael didn't want to do the MSG shows at first but had to be convinced

If Michael had it his way, He would've stopped performing earlier than he did. Hell, he wanted the Triumph Tour to be his last tour

[Edited 2/20/17 16:20pm]

RODSERLING said:

Let's not forget these recerts are because of the new rules allowing the RIAA to count streaming as pure sales. That's why in february, THRILLER went from 30 Platinum discs to 33 P !

.

In fact, this only proves, sadly, that BAD never reached the 10 million mark in pure sales. I always thought BAD was undercertified...Apparently not.

.

Because we are on the org, do not forget that PURPLE RAIN is really undercertified. It was last certified at 13P in 1996 (!) but sold 2.5 millions more between 1996 and today.

.

It would be a great promotion if WB would recertify PURPLE RAIN at 15 *P. With streaming added and with the new deluxe edition coming, it will reach fast the 16*P...

That surprised me as well, especially with how Purple Rain has sold and continues to sell this year. I assumed Purple Rain was certified at 19x million in the US. How would his estate or WB get it recertified now, I wonder...

MotownSubdivision said:

IamBryan said:

so is Bad considered a "flop"?? I mean it sold 23 million less than Thriller!

If it must be a flop then it's one that just about any artist would pray to have.

even MJ?

bluegangsta said:

HAPPYPERSON said:

http://www.billboard.com/...fied-album





Michael Jackson's 'Thriller' Extends Reign as Highest Certified Album in U.S. History
2/16/2017 by Keith Caulfield


The seminal 1982 album passes the 33-times platinum mark.


Michael Jackson’s blockbuster album Thriller just keeps on getting bigger. The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) has certified the set at 33-times platinum in the U.S., extending Thriller’s record as the highest certified album in history.


That means Thriller -- released in 1982 -- has earned 33 million equivalent album units in the U.S. That sum blends traditional album sales (one album sale equals one unit), tracks sold from an album (10 tracks sold equals one unit) and on-demand audio and/or video streams (1,500 streams equals one unit).


A plaque commemorating the milestone was presented at the home of Epic Records chairman Antonio "L.A." Reid over Grammy weekend, where Sony Music CEO Doug Morris, Columbia Records chairman and incoming Sony Music CEO Rob Stringer, Sony president, commercial group Richard Storey, attorneys Karen Langford and John Branca toasted the certification.


The RIAA revamped its Gold & Platinum Awards Program on Feb. 1, 2016, growing from a pure album sales certification process to one that includes tracks and streams. That same day, Thriller’s certification was raised from 30 million to 32 million.


Thriller continues to maintain its place as the highest-certified album ever, ahead of Eagles’ Their Greatest Hits 1971-1975, with 29 million. (It was last certified on Jan. 30, 2006.)


Thriller was released through Sony Music Entertainment’s Epic Records and spent 37 nonconsecutive weeks at No. 1 on the Billboard 200 albums chart. The mega-successful set was the first to generate a record seven top 10 singles on the Billboard Hot 100 chart, including two No. 1s: “Billie Jean” (No. 1 for seven weeks) and “Beat It” (No. 1 for three weeks). In 2015, Thriller was named the biggest album of all time by a male artist on the Billboard 200 chart, and the No. 3 title overall.


Simultaneous with Thriller’s raised certification, its follow-up, Bad, climbs to 10-times platinum (the RIAA’s Diamond award). Jackson is one of just 22 acts with more than one Diamond-certified album.


Representatives for Sony and Jackson’s estate say that Thriller has sold 105 million copies globally.

Look at all those people who worked on the album accepting that award. Lol.

All zero of them?

IamBryan said:

MotownSubdivision said:

IamBryan said: If it must be a flop then it's one that just about any artist would pray to have.

even MJ?

MJ considered selling any less than his lofty projection of 100 million units to be a failure so yes but Bad was still an objective commercial success. A better example of a flop would be Invincible which even itself performed well enough commercially.

bboy87 said:

Scorp said:

I never felt the Victory Tour shouldn't have happened when it did, but not because of the narrative that's being thrown out in the present day.....

He did deserve to celebrate the Thriller album by doing a solo tour.....no doubt about that......that should have been a solo tour

BUT, I ain't trashing the brothers either......because

1.) even though the Bad tour showed MJ as the consummate entertainer and he gave excellent shows, and even though he did the Dangerous Tour and the History.......none of those solo tours compared to that Jacksons 1981 Triumph Tour.....I saw that show live and a great deal of the staging concepts Michael used in his solo tours derived from the Triumph Tour, concepts that were conceived by all the brothers........

that light torch that MJ featured mightily while performing the title track to History during the HIstory Tour, that same concept was featured during the triumph tour with Randy holding up the torch

and whatever people say about his brothers........none of those background dancers MJ selected for those solo tours can stick those dance steps like his brothers did. I watched those solo tours, I saw that 92 HBO Special of his Dangerous Tour in Bucharest, Romania........and his brothers could have aced those steps better than those background dancers could.........and the background singer who sang Jermaine's vocal for I'll Be There, although it was solid, wasn't like Jermaine singing it

those 2001 MSG Concerts when his brothers performed on stage with him....when Michael brought NSYNC to the stage, NSYNC as young men couldn't keep up with MJ's brothers who are now thought of as leeches.......anyone can pull that footage up on youtube and those men in their 50s had more energy than NSYNC did....

MJ felt having NSYNC perform with him would validate him some kind of way, but his 50 some year old brothers were a step ahead

[Edited 2/20/17 15:29pm]

If I remember correctly, it was the promoter's (David Gest) idea to have NSYNC

Like with so many performances, Michael didn't want to do the MSG shows at first but had to be convinced

If Michael had it his way, He would've stopped performing earlier than he did. Hell, he wanted the Triumph Tour to be his last tour

[Edited 2/20/17 16:20pm]

MJ also had NSYNC induct him at the rock n roll hall of fame as a solo artist

he felt he needed their backing because they were the top Pop act of 2001 after receiving an enormous promotional campaign by MTV in support of their release for their album Celebrity

MD431Madcat said:

As someone that personally witnessed the Jacksons 1981 Triumph tour..

I politely disagree with you..

the BAD tour is often regarded as MJ's best Tour..

and i would agree if i hadn't also seen the 1981 Triumph tour..

Michael never again sang as well or performed with that much SOUL!

I think he wasn't ready to leave just yet and he was getting his act together BIG-TIME!

SoulAlive said:

I have always felt that it was a mistake for Michael to do that tour.I think,after Off The Wall,he shouldn't have worked with his brothers again.That album should have been his declaration of independence.He was a solo superstar at that point and should have remained so.The Victory tour was nothing more than his brothers trying to piggyback on MJ's amazing Thriller success.I bet that most fans who attended that tour didn't go to see anyone besides Michael.It's clear that his heart and soul was not in that tour.On the album,he chose a big superstar (Mick Jagger) to sing "State Of Shock" with.....instead of one of the brothers.Then he refused to appear in the "Torture" and "Body" videos with his brothers.What does that tell you?

[Edited 2/20/17 17:39pm]

every vocal Michael and the Jacksons gave during that Triumph Tour was 100% live

Scorp said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Scorp said: Was everything really in place for Bad to outsell Thriller or was it just that people had outlandish expectations? Bad sold far less than expected (lower still when you factor in Mike's goal of selling 100 million copies) but it wasn't a commercial failure outside of selling less than Thriller which realistically people should not have held thwir breath for. When discussing this, people seem to forget that it wasn't expected for MJ to top OTW's commercial success and he did so many, many, many times over with Thriller which is the true example of catching lightning in a bottle. In retrospect, many just expected him to do it twice and were disappointed when he didn't. [Edited 2/18/17 14:07pm]

it wasn't outlandish to think that or to presume that

just as it wasn't outlandish for MJ to think or proclaim Thriller would be the become the best selling of all time based on what he had garnered up to that point......

it wasn't a lightning in a bottle, I don't think MJ ever thought that when he went in that recording studio and worked on it, it was a culimination of what had been cultivated over a 15 year period that made that possible.....

when you achieve something like that, that's not a luck of the draw or some whim, or some coincidence because if that's the case, after all these years afterwards, then someone would have made an album that would have surpassed Thriller in sales

Bad sold 16 million copies worldwide the first 2 months of its release and from that point on to the album's run through early 95, the album sold 9 million

That should not have happened......if he maintains his domestic support, Bad would have outsold Thriller, because the momentum would have been generated and fed off of the domestic support

at the prime of his solo career, Thriller should not have been the pinnacle

to say it was unreasonable to see that Bad could outsell Thriller, is to take the onus of how important his domestic sales were, even as he becamse an exclusive international artist by the time the 90s hit

the domestic support was key and vital, and if he had maintained it, all of his albums after Thriller would have sold more than they did

and in an attempt to regain the domestic support he knew he had lost, that's why he initiated those interviews with Oprah in 1993 and Diane Sawyer in 1995

this is why fans of the past 20 years always try and back his later work with DAngerous and HIstory because deep down, they know those albums should have sold more based on what his stature was that was established with Thriller.

and what's most ironic when that domestic support waned, that's when he became known as "The King of Pop"...

[Edited 2/19/17 12:48pm]

"Lightning in a bottle" in the sense that it performed so monstrously well when nobody sans MJ could have predicted Thriller's success. I'm not saying luck wasn't the entire reason for why Thriller was such an international phenomenon but you have to be kidding yourself if you think there wasn't an iota of luck that played into how much that album blew up. Michael capturing lightning in a bottle with that album doesn't mean that somebody else would have done it years later and as of February 20, 2017 nobody has even come close.

The American audience is a fickle one. Somebody whose name is on the tip of everybody's tongue one year can be forgotten the next and MJ was not invulnerable to how wishy-washy the American populace is. Also, look at it this way: with how incredibly successful Thriller was and how Michael was everywhere for such a short period of time, that also could have cut into Bad's sales (besides Michael taking tips from Barnum leading up to Bad's release.

Why shouldn't Thriller have been the pinnacle? To this day it is still the highest selling album of all time, a title which at this point, it will always hold. That's nothing to sneeze at.

You talk as though Mike had zero domestic support post-Thriller. Dangerous outsold Bad in the US, History became the highest selling double LP of all time and even Blood on the Dancefloor became the highest selling mixtape in history. Yes, most of those sales were overseas but it's not like these sold peanuts in America.

Lastly, what's wrong with Michael catering to his overseas fanbases? He would always have support in the US even if not to the magnitude of Thriller. Why conern yourself with only one section of the planet when the rest of the planet is invested in you as well. Mike was smart to cash in on his international fame the way he did. He could still sell out stateside as well.

SoulAlive said:

the song "Body" on Victory rips off "Wanna Be Startin' Something".Listen to the chorus of both songs but I guess this shouldn't come as s surprise.The brothers also ripped off Michael a few years earlier,too.Listen to the song "Everybody" from Triumph....that chorus sounds just like "Get On The Floor" from Off The Wall!

MotownSubdivision said:

Scorp said:

it wasn't outlandish to think that or to presume that

just as it wasn't outlandish for MJ to think or proclaim Thriller would be the become the best selling of all time based on what he had garnered up to that point......

it wasn't a lightning in a bottle, I don't think MJ ever thought that when he went in that recording studio and worked on it, it was a culimination of what had been cultivated over a 15 year period that made that possible.....

when you achieve something like that, that's not a luck of the draw or some whim, or some coincidence because if that's the case, after all these years afterwards, then someone would have made an album that would have surpassed Thriller in sales

Bad sold 16 million copies worldwide the first 2 months of its release and from that point on to the album's run through early 95, the album sold 9 million

That should not have happened......if he maintains his domestic support, Bad would have outsold Thriller, because the momentum would have been generated and fed off of the domestic support

at the prime of his solo career, Thriller should not have been the pinnacle

to say it was unreasonable to see that Bad could outsell Thriller, is to take the onus of how important his domestic sales were, even as he becamse an exclusive international artist by the time the 90s hit

the domestic support was key and vital, and if he had maintained it, all of his albums after Thriller would have sold more than they did

and in an attempt to regain the domestic support he knew he had lost, that's why he initiated those interviews with Oprah in 1993 and Diane Sawyer in 1995

this is why fans of the past 20 years always try and back his later work with DAngerous and HIstory because deep down, they know those albums should have sold more based on what his stature was that was established with Thriller.

and what's most ironic when that domestic support waned, that's when he became known as "The King of Pop"...

[Edited 2/19/17 12:48pm]

"Lightning in a bottle" in the sense that it performed so monstrously well when nobody sans MJ could have predicted Thriller's success. I'm not saying luck wasn't the entire reason for why Thriller was such an international phenomenon but you have to be kidding yourself if you think there wasn't an iota of luck that played into how much that album blew up. Michael capturing lightning in a bottle with that album doesn't mean that somebody else would have done it years later and as of February 20, 2017 nobody has even come close.

The American audience is a fickle one. Somebody whose name is on the tip of everybody's tongue one year can be forgotten the next and MJ was not invulnerable to how wishy-washy the American populace is. Also, look at it this way: with how incredibly successful Thriller was and how Michael was everywhere for such a short period of time, that also could have cut into Bad's sales (besides Michael taking tips from Barnum leading up to Bad's release.

Why shouldn't Thriller have been the pinnacle? To this day it is still the highest selling album of all time, a title which at this point, it will always hold. That's nothing to sneeze at.

You talk as though Mike had zero domestic support post-Thriller. Dangerous outsold Bad in the US, History became the highest selling double LP of all time and even Blood on the Dancefloor became the highest selling mixtape in history. Yes, most of those sales were overseas but it's not like these sold peanuts in America.

Lastly, what's wrong with Michael catering to his overseas fanbases? He would always have support in the US even if not to the magnitude of Thriller. Why conern yourself with only one section of the planet when the rest of the planet is invested in you as well. Mike was smart to cash in on his international fame the way he did. He could still sell out stateside as well.

that's not what I'm saying.......

I didn't say he had zero domestic sales.........

I bought the Bad album , I bought the cassette version and then somebody gave me the album version afterwards.

and I never said anything about it being a bad thing to have international support.....

that's not even the issue....to have a global audience is a great thing........it's not even about that.....if one's talent can acheive something like that should be commended.

the issue is WHY after Bad, he focused on becoming an exclusive international artist in a way that gives the impression that his domestic support had some sort of vendetta against him, in a way that has led many of his international fans to conclude that America was out to get him, or I should say, the american support who set the foundation for him to achieve that support overseas....the foundation support is different from a round of support that can be viewed as "fickle"......I'm not talkin about those who report to this day MJ started wearing the glittered glove during Motown 25 when he had been sporting that 4 years before the fact, even before the Triumph Tour, or even the crotch grabbing where media sources said he started with the Bad video but had been doing that years before during that same Triumph Tour........or even the famous LEAN that he did during the Smooth Criminal video, a lean that he was already doing in the presence of the foundation support years before.......

when you achieve something of that magnitude, that aint luck, luck is something that happens on a whim.....Michael Jackson believed in his mind and based on what was established, and based on the fact he was working with the greatest producer and musicians and sessions singers in the business, that he was creating the greatest selling album of all time.....to say that's luck is selling the entire moment short

Thriller did not cut into Bad sales.......Bad sold 16 million copies worldwide two months after release and was the most anticipated follow up in music history......by 1986, MJ scaled back public appearances because one the thing he understood way back when to pull back so you don't fall prey to overexposure that so many entertainers find themselves having to overcome

When you lose 18-20 million music followers the way he did, there's no way he anticipated that, and when he saw Bad wasn't going to surpass Thriller (not saying I believed it was going to sell 100 million), everyone head went to rollin and he fired everyone in sight, and when he performed his last Bad concert in early 1989 in Los Angeles and threw up that peace sign, the handwriting was on the wall that he would never do another concert in the american homeland ever again, and he transitioned into becoming an exclusive international artist with the belief he could compensate for the sales he lost in his home country by generating a new body of fans overseas, that started in 1991 with the release of DAngerous, but when he saw he couldn't replace that void, he spent the rest of his career trying to regain that audience he knew he lost, particularly the urban audience, the audience who was the base of his appeal.........that's just the reality

He never would have did those interviews with Oprah, Diane Sawyer, if his sales in his homeland did not curtail the way they did

the reason why nobody outside of MJ hasn't come close to matching Thriller is because the music/entertainment industry is finished and dried up, with too much reliance on sampling to stamp one's presentation w/out taking the time to create their own sound of expression. It stopped being about the music a long time ago.

[Edited 2/21/17 4:32am]

An instrumental made from the real multitrack stems

bboy87 said:

An instrumental made from the real multitrack stems

So smooth and beautiful, thanks for posting!