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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Was Dirty Diana a blatant rip off of Darking Niki?
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Thread started 01/07/17 12:10pm

mechanicalemot
ion17

Was Dirty Diana a blatant rip off of Darking Niki?

Thoughts?
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Reply #1 posted 01/07/17 12:26pm

Ellie

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No

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Reply #2 posted 01/07/17 12:47pm

CynicKill

If anything "Billie Jean".

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Reply #3 posted 01/07/17 1:20pm

alphastreet

Dirty Diana is a g rated little red corvette lol both are great
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Reply #4 posted 01/07/17 1:33pm

mechanicalemot
ion17

I think that while the media focused in whether or not the song was secretly about a live affair with Diana Ross....everyone missed MJ was ripping off Prince
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Reply #5 posted 01/07/17 1:38pm

mynameisnotsus
an

mechanicalemotion17 said:

I think that while the media focused in whether or not the song was secretly about a live affair with Diana Ross....everyone missed MJ was ripping off Prince


Everyone missed it because there's zero connection between the two confused
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Reply #6 posted 01/07/17 1:39pm

MotownSubdivis
ion

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CynicKill said:

If anything "Billie Jean".



If anything, "Beat It".

Looks like TC is trying (and failing) to innocently shade Michael.
[Edited 1/7/17 13:40pm]
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Reply #7 posted 01/07/17 2:08pm

thebanishedone

wow there is not a single similarity except the fact both are rock songs

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Reply #8 posted 01/07/17 2:10pm

purplethunder3
121

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lol

Free your mind...and your ass will follow.
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Reply #9 posted 01/07/17 2:51pm

heathilly

I would say its more inspired. Thats like saying is purple rain a blatant rip off of thriller 9 songs masterfully crafted to reach as many people as possbile and instead of a big music video do a movie.

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Reply #10 posted 01/07/17 2:52pm

SoulAlive

hmmm rock songs about a sleazy woman....what a unique concept! lol

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Reply #11 posted 01/07/17 2:53pm

heathilly

alphastreet said:

Dirty Diana is a g rated little red corvette lol both are great

except dirty diana michael doesnt want to get turned out and prince wants to tame a girl whose already turned up.

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Reply #12 posted 01/07/17 3:25pm

thebanishedone

SoulAlive said:

hmmm rock songs about a sleazy woman....what a unique concept! lol

why sleezy? Little Red Corvette girl wants one night stand while Diana is a groupie like Rick James Super Freak.

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Reply #13 posted 01/07/17 4:08pm

namepeace

When it dropped I definitely thought that. Because I believed Quincy wanted Prince to come to the studio to shake things up with MJ for Bad, and when Prince, true to form, refused, Quincy helped MJ come up with a Princely tune.

But now, I don't quite see it that way,. The parallels are there but MJ had recorded songs like that before DD.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #14 posted 01/07/17 5:33pm

smoothcriminal
12

No. Dirty Diana is a bit simpler musically and more conventional. If you take the time to sit down and analyze Darling Nikki, you'll see just how fucking odd that song is.

Prince utilizes a I - bVI - I - V progression in the intro, then a I - bVI - IV - bVI - V progression for the verse, then a I - bVI progression for the instrumental. This may be wrong as I did it off the top of my head, but Michael, as much as a I loved him, never really experimented with this type of modal mixture in the same manner that Prince did - I suspect this is because the bVI and bVII chords in a major key are staples of rock music, and Michael wasn't as rooted in rock as Prince was. To contrast, Dirty Diana is in a major key and essentially just loops a standard minor pop progression: i - VI - VII, with occasional flourishes of V before the chorus to create some tension . Not dissing simplicity, but I find that Darling Nikki is a bit more interesting to my ears.

Throughout the song, Prince really hammers that I - bVI relationship, especially during that breakdown at the end. It's quite intense and awesome.

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Reply #15 posted 01/07/17 7:02pm

1contessa

thebanishedone said:

wow there is not a single similarity except the fact both are rock songs

I agree.

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Reply #16 posted 01/07/17 7:50pm

heathilly

smoothcriminal12 said:

No. Dirty Diana is a bit simpler musically and more conventional. If you take the time to sit down and analyze Darling Nikki, you'll see just how fucking odd that song is.

Prince utilizes a I - bVI - I - V progression in the intro, then a I - bVI - IV - bVI - V progression for the verse, then a I - bVI progression for the instrumental. This may be wrong as I did it off the top of my head, but Michael, as much as a I loved him, never really experimented with this type of modal mixture in the same manner that Prince did - I suspect this is because the bVI and bVII chords in a major key are staples of rock music, and Michael wasn't as rooted in rock as Prince was. To contrast, Dirty Diana is in a major key and essentially just loops a standard minor pop progression: i - VI - VII, with occasional flourishes of V before the chorus to create some tension . Not dissing simplicity, but I find that Darling Nikki is a bit more interesting to my ears.

Throughout the song, Prince really hammers that I - bVI relationship, especially during that breakdown at the end. It's quite intense and awesome.

All of mj songs are chordally simple that how you can tell the difference from the songs he wrote vs rod temperton. There rhythmically more complex though.

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Reply #17 posted 01/07/17 8:29pm

smoothcriminal
12

heathilly said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

No. Dirty Diana is a bit simpler musically and more conventional. If you take the time to sit down and analyze Darling Nikki, you'll see just how fucking odd that song is.

Prince utilizes a I - bVI - I - V progression in the intro, then a I - bVI - IV - bVI - V progression for the verse, then a I - bVI progression for the instrumental. This may be wrong as I did it off the top of my head, but Michael, as much as a I loved him, never really experimented with this type of modal mixture in the same manner that Prince did - I suspect this is because the bVI and bVII chords in a major key are staples of rock music, and Michael wasn't as rooted in rock as Prince was. To contrast, Dirty Diana is in a major key and essentially just loops a standard minor pop progression: i - VI - VII, with occasional flourishes of V before the chorus to create some tension . Not dissing simplicity, but I find that Darling Nikki is a bit more interesting to my ears.

Throughout the song, Prince really hammers that I - bVI relationship, especially during that breakdown at the end. It's quite intense and awesome.

All of mj songs are chordally simple that how you can tell the difference from the songs he wrote vs rod temperton. There rhythmically more complex though.

Yes for the most part, although Mike did have some interesting moments like the bridge in Will You Be There, Stranger in Moscow, I Just Can't Stop Loving You, This Place Hotel, etc. The original P.Y.T. demo is also a thing of beauty. Michael seemed to have a particular liking for the Dorian mode; i - IV is all over his music in songs like Bad, Jam, Earth Song, Blood on the Dance Floor, Workin' Day and Night, etc.

I mean, Prince wasn't much more complex on a whole, but you still get songs like Sometimes It Snows..., The Ballad of Dorothy Parker, Under the Cherry Moon, Mountains, Computer Blue...especially during that 1984 - 1988 period, you saw Prince expanding his musical vocabulary quite a bit. I'm sure Wendy & Lisa definitely helped in that aspect, but Prince had enough genius on his own to make it happen. His jazz influence and instrumental chops allowed him a bit more freedom as a composer.

But anyways, no I don't think Dirty Diana was a rip off of Darling Nikki. I'm more inclined to think of it as Michael's attempt at giving himself some edge while still remaining within acceptable boundaries lol (it's also quite misogynistic, in retrospect).

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Reply #18 posted 01/07/17 8:58pm

woogiebear

Hell NO!!!!!

mad

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Reply #19 posted 01/08/17 4:42am

mechanicalemot
ion17

lol
[Edited 1/8/17 12:30pm]
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Reply #20 posted 01/08/17 10:36am

Identity

They bear no similarities at all, save both songs feature a central character who is a lascivious femme fatale.

"Lightning makes no sound until it strikes."
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Reply #21 posted 01/08/17 10:37am

mjscarousal

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neutral

Stand, you`ve been sitting much too long, there`s a permanent crease in your right or wrong.~Sly Stone
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Reply #22 posted 01/08/17 12:06pm

UncleJam

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Dirty Diana...Darling Nikki...just a coincidence that they appear somewhat similar. Both rock songs about a "frisky" lady who did/wanted to do some dirty stuff...just a coincidence that the song appears on an album where the title track was intended to be a "diss" record towards Prince (which they wanted P to participate in). Just a coincidence that a couple of years after his Royal BADness rose to world popularity that MJ decided to show how BAD he was...just a coincidence that he hired a white girl to be his guitarist. Just a coincidence that if you place the Bad album cover next to Prince's Kiss 12-inch cover, there are some "similarities". Just a coincidence that the "video girl" from "The Way You Make Me Feel" basically got the job when MJ found out she was one of Prince's girls...all of this is just a coincidence, including the fact that more than 20 years later, MJ was still afraid that if he slept, God would give ideas to Prince. Was Dirty Diana a blatant rip off of Darling Nikki? OF COURSE NOT!

Make it so, Number One...
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Reply #23 posted 01/08/17 12:07pm

DonRants

For those who haven't seen it...here is a cool redit of Dirty Diana with previously unreleased scenes

To All the Haters on the Internet
No more Candy 4 U
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Reply #24 posted 01/08/17 12:11pm

DonRants

What has happened to the MJ sticky threa...it seems to be closed and the latest post I see is Dec 30. If you see something more recent please post a link.

To All the Haters on the Internet
No more Candy 4 U
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Reply #25 posted 01/08/17 4:17pm

mjscarousal

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DonRants said:

For those who haven't seen it...here is a cool redit of Dirty Diana with previously unreleased scenes

biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

Stand, you`ve been sitting much too long, there`s a permanent crease in your right or wrong.~Sly Stone
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Reply #26 posted 01/08/17 8:11pm

TonyVanDam

mechanicalemotion17 said:

Thoughts?


No indeed! no no no!

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Reply #27 posted 01/08/17 11:24pm

Superstition

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No.
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Reply #28 posted 01/09/17 9:09am

mechanicalemot
ion17

Ok then.....maybe just similar content and timing, along with that dumb habit of making up rivalries
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Reply #29 posted 01/09/17 11:35am

FullLipsDotNos
e

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mechanicalemotion17 said:

Ok then.....maybe just similar content and timing, along with that dumb habit of making up rivalries

IKR, especially when it comes to black artists... And then someone comes up and say all songs by black composers or lyricists sound alike because black music is so simple, dumb, underdeveloped, you name it...

full lips, freckles, and upturned nose
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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Was Dirty Diana a blatant rip off of Darking Niki?