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Reply #90 posted 01/11/17 4:51pm

214

Having said that, music wise, Bob Dylan can't hold a candle to Stevie.

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Reply #91 posted 01/11/17 5:02pm

214

heathilly said:

214 said:

Bob Dylan's impact is way beyond Stevie's impact, wider and greater and lyrically is superior as well,not musicallyand vocally, though.

No idea about Joni, the only song i have listened from her, is A Case Of U and i didn't like it a bit.

I would argue stevies impact on the world of rnb is as great as dylans in the rock world. Not to make this a race thing but there is a huge over analyzation and lauding for rock artist/white artist music as more worthy of intellectual study and more important more impactful. When in actuality there just written about more. (Theres more books on elvis than there is count bassie, michael jackson, prince, miles davis, duke ellington, chuck berry, stevie wonder, marvin gaye , ray charles combined that is alarming and a problem bigger than music its a reflection of society.) There was whole scene before and after elvis, there was alot going on before and after the beatles arrived the world did not change when dylan plugged in. (perhaps the most ridiclous one) Im not saying these artist arn't important because they are but alot the strides in black music tends to be put on back burner as less than when compared to their white counterpart. With that being said I agree bobs better lyrically he's very influential not much of a singer or genius musically as stevie though.

I see what are you talkin about, fair enough, agree with you. There's nothing in Dylan's legacy so beautiful as "As", wonderful and moving masterpiece opf a song.

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Reply #92 posted 01/11/17 5:12pm

heathilly

214 said:



heathilly said:




214 said:


Bob Dylan's impact is way beyond Stevie's impact, wider and greater and lyrically is superior as well,not musicallyand vocally, though.


No idea about Joni, the only song i have listened from her, is A Case Of U and i didn't like it a bit.



I would argue stevies impact on the world of rnb is as great as dylans in the rock world. Not to make this a race thing but there is a huge over analyzation and lauding for rock artist/white artist music as more worthy of intellectual study and more important more impactful. When in actuality there just written about more. (Theres more books on elvis than there is count bassie, michael jackson, prince, miles davis, duke ellington, chuck berry, stevie wonder, marvin gaye , ray charles combined that is alarming and a problem bigger than music its a reflection of society.) There was whole scene before and after elvis, there was alot going on before and after the beatles arrived the world did not change when dylan plugged in. (perhaps the most ridiclous one) Im not saying these artist arn't important because they are but alot the strides in black music tends to be put on back burner as less than when compared to their white counterpart. With that being said I agree bobs better lyrically he's very influential not much of a singer or genius musically as stevie though.



I see what are you talkin about, fair enough, agree with you. There's nothing in Dylan's legacy so beautiful as "As", wonderful and moving masterpiece opf a song.


Your a big girl now is pretty beautiful and 4th time around.
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Reply #93 posted 01/11/17 5:23pm

214

heathilly said:

214 said:

I see what are you talkin about, fair enough, agree with you. There's nothing in Dylan's legacy so beautiful as "As", wonderful and moving masterpiece opf a song.

Your a big girl now is pretty beautiful and 4th time around.

One of my very favorites, such a painful song.

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Reply #94 posted 01/11/17 8:47pm

ThePanther

avatar

214 said:

I see what are you talkin about, fair enough, agree with you. There's nothing in Dylan's legacy so beautiful as "As", wonderful and moving masterpiece opf a song.

.

Ever heard "Ring Them Bells" (1989)?

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Reply #95 posted 01/12/17 6:18am

MotownSubdivis
ion

avatar

heathilly said:



214 said:


Bob Dylan's impact is way beyond Stevie's impact, wider and greater and lyrically is superior as well,not musicallyand vocally, though.


No idea about Joni, the only song i have listened from her, is A Case Of U and i didn't like it a bit.



I would argue stevies impact on the world of rnb is as great as dylans in the rock world. Not to make this a race thing but there is a huge over analyzation and lauding for rock artist/white artist music as more worthy of intellectual study and more important more impactful. When in actuality there just written about more. (Theres more books on elvis than there is count bassie, michael jackson, prince, miles davis, duke ellington, chuck berry, stevie wonder, marvin gaye , ray charles combined that is alarming and a problem bigger than music its a reflection of society.) There was whole scene before and after elvis, there was alot going on before and after the beatles arrived the world did not change when dylan plugged in. (perhaps the most ridiclous one) Im not saying these artist arn't important because they are but alot the strides in black music tends to be put on back burner as less than when compared to their white counterpart. With that being said I agree bobs better lyrically he's very influential not much of a singer or genius musically as stevie though.

Thank you. Same reason why the average rock album receives a remaster yet many R&B albums of the past go out of print.
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Reply #96 posted 01/12/17 7:37am

heathilly

MotownSubdivision said:

heathilly said:

I would argue stevies impact on the world of rnb is as great as dylans in the rock world. Not to make this a race thing but there is a huge over analyzation and lauding for rock artist/white artist music as more worthy of intellectual study and more important more impactful. When in actuality there just written about more. (Theres more books on elvis than there is count bassie, michael jackson, prince, miles davis, duke ellington, chuck berry, stevie wonder, marvin gaye , ray charles combined that is alarming and a problem bigger than music its a reflection of society.) There was whole scene before and after elvis, there was alot going on before and after the beatles arrived the world did not change when dylan plugged in. (perhaps the most ridiclous one) Im not saying these artist arn't important because they are but alot the strides in black music tends to be put on back burner as less than when compared to their white counterpart. With that being said I agree bobs better lyrically he's very influential not much of a singer or genius musically as stevie though.

Thank you. Same reason why the average rock album receives a remaster yet many R&B albums of the past go out of print.

True its the cause of alot of things from remasters to how much publicity they recieve in the "rock press" Brittany spears been on rollingstones more times than prince and mj combined. Yes I know shes selling sex appeal but really? Geez But once again this is just a microcosm of society and it permeates everything tv magazines movies literature everything.

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Reply #97 posted 01/12/17 8:10am

MD431Madcat

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Stevie 70-80

Prince 78-89

MJ 79-88

"holding grudges and anger is a waste of energy, We are all going to die. We are all evolving, trying to become better people, so let it go.”
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Reply #98 posted 01/12/17 9:00am

BombSquad

avatar

214 said:

Having said that, music wise, Bob Dylan can't hold a candle to Stevie.

co-sign. Dylan has "written" tons of of songs, which have 500 verses and no melody at all.
not my cup of tea

I live in constant fear that Trump will deport my latina mother-in-law who lives at 1837 3rd street, LA 90023, blue house. she gets off work at 6
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Reply #99 posted 01/12/17 10:01am

heathilly

I think joni mitchell may be musics most sophisticated lyricist.

Then lenoard cohen than Bob Dylan.

[Edited 1/12/17 10:02am]

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Reply #100 posted 01/12/17 11:00am

gandorb

heathilly said:

I think joni mitchell may be musics most sophisticated lyricist.


Then lenoard cohen than Bob Dylan.

[Edited 1/12/17 10:02am]


I great group of writers, with one great voice among them.
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Reply #101 posted 01/12/17 11:14am

namepeace

214 said:

heathilly said:

I would argue stevies impact on the world of rnb is as great as dylans in the rock world. Not to make this a race thing but there is a huge over analyzation and lauding for rock artist/white artist music as more worthy of intellectual study and more important more impactful. When in actuality there just written about more. (Theres more books on elvis than there is count bassie, michael jackson, prince, miles davis, duke ellington, chuck berry, stevie wonder, marvin gaye , ray charles combined that is alarming and a problem bigger than music its a reflection of society.) There was whole scene before and after elvis, there was alot going on before and after the beatles arrived the world did not change when dylan plugged in. (perhaps the most ridiclous one) Im not saying these artist arn't important because they are but alot the strides in black music tends to be put on back burner as less than when compared to their white counterpart. With that being said I agree bobs better lyrically he's very influential not much of a singer or genius musically as stevie though.

I see what are you talkin about, fair enough, agree with you. There's nothing in Dylan's legacy so beautiful as "As", wonderful and moving masterpiece opf a song.


As mentioned (sadly), there are few books out there chronicling Stevie's impact on music as a whole, but as I said earlier, and as both of you indicated, Stevie's impact on music was broader than Dylan's. But not by a whole lot.

Several R&B artists - and if you want to call him a rock artist, Jimi -- covered Dylan's songs. Culturally, Dylan was an icon of the 60's, and really was admired by a lot of white and black Americans during that time. Still is. But sonically and commercially, Stevie's run seems to have made the bigger impact on audiences across racial lines.

That said, you're a bad man when artists from Brooke Benton to Patti Labelle to the O'Jays and Isleys are covering your songs. And though I agree with the OP, Dylan is that bad man.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #102 posted 01/12/17 11:16am

NorthC

BombSquad said:



214 said:


Having said that, music wise, Bob Dylan can't hold a candle to Stevie.




co-sign. Dylan has "written" tons of of songs, which have 500 verses and no melody at all.
not my cup of tea


Another man who has written tons of songs with no melody at all is James Brown. Yet I love them both. Whether you write lyrics that win the Nobel Prize or you're just screaming and hollering and begging and moaning, at the end of the day, music is about "how does it feeeel": "I feel good!"
Don't ever lose your dreams.
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Reply #103 posted 01/12/17 11:35am

namepeace

NorthC said:

BombSquad said:

co-sign. Dylan has "written" tons of of songs, which have 500 verses and no melody at all.
not my cup of tea

Another man who has written tons of songs with no melody at all is James Brown. Yet I love them both. Whether you write lyrics that win the Nobel Prize or you're just screaming and hollering and begging and moaning, at the end of the day, music is about "how does it feeeel": "I feel good!"


James had a little more going for him than that, with songs like "Say It Loud," "I Don't Want Nobody . . ." and "Man's World" (famously performed in later years with Pavarotti).

That said, I see your point.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #104 posted 01/12/17 11:46am

MD431Madcat

avatar

James Brown's Melodies were in the instruments! wink

NorthC said:

BombSquad said:

co-sign. Dylan has "written" tons of of songs, which have 500 verses and no melody at all.
not my cup of tea

Another man who has written tons of songs with no melody at all is James Brown. Yet I love them both. Whether you write lyrics that win the Nobel Prize or you're just screaming and hollering and begging and moaning, at the end of the day, music is about "how does it feeeel": "I feel good!"

"holding grudges and anger is a waste of energy, We are all going to die. We are all evolving, trying to become better people, so let it go.”
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Reply #105 posted 01/12/17 12:31pm

214

ThePanther said:

214 said:

I see what are you talkin about, fair enough, agree with you. There's nothing in Dylan's legacy so beautiful as "As", wonderful and moving masterpiece opf a song.

.

Ever heard "Ring Them Bells" (1989)?

Of course, is great but to my taste is not at the same level.

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Reply #106 posted 01/12/17 12:34pm

214

BombSquad said:

214 said:

Having said that, music wise, Bob Dylan can't hold a candle to Stevie.

co-sign. Dylan has "written" tons of of songs, which have 500 verses and no melody at all.
not my cup of tea

I do not agree, is true he is not a master melody maker as Stevie Wonder, but lots of his melodies are good and go very well with the lyrics.

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Reply #107 posted 01/12/17 1:18pm

Musicslave

namepeace said:

NorthC said:

BombSquad said: Another man who has written tons of songs with no melody at all is James Brown. Yet I love them both. Whether you write lyrics that win the Nobel Prize or you're just screaming and hollering and begging and moaning, at the end of the day, music is about "how does it feeeel": "I feel good!"


James had a little more going for him than that, with songs like "Say It Loud," "I Don't Want Nobody . . ." and "Man's World" (famously performed in later years with Pavarotti).

That said, I see your point.

-

-

Never heard/saw this before....Thanks for the lead namepeace.

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Reply #108 posted 01/12/17 1:19pm

heathilly

Bob is an acquired taste if you get past his voice you can find enjoyment in his music

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Reply #109 posted 01/12/17 1:19pm

heathilly

Bob is an acquired taste if you get past his voice you can find enjoyment in his music

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Reply #110 posted 01/12/17 4:13pm

214

heathilly said:

Bob is an acquired taste if you get past his voice you can find enjoyment in his music

Fortunately, some 9 years ago i got past his voice and now i love that voice, his lyrics and his music.

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Reply #111 posted 01/13/17 3:33pm

ThePanther

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For me, Stevie Wonder was more the 'acquired taste', since I didn't get into his music until I was in my mid-20s. On the other hand, I'd been listening to Dylan since I was (literally) in the womb, and from when I was a toddler I always thought he had a great voice.

.

Then again, I grew up in a very white household...

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Reply #112 posted 01/13/17 6:40pm

heathilly

ThePanther said:

For me, Stevie Wonder was more the 'acquired taste', since I didn't get into his music until I was in my mid-20s. On the other hand, I'd been listening to Dylan since I was (literally) in the womb, and from when I was a toddler I always thought he had a great voice.

.

Then again, I grew up in a very white household...

Well culture has alot to do with it. I had to grow to like bob dylans voice john lennon voice jimi hendrix voice. I have more rnb roots where singers really can saaang by you know the typical belting from the chest stay in tune soul church voices with some jazzy arragements syncopated rhythms. Coming from that to bob dylan was like going to planet where people breathed ammonia. I just didnt get it. But now Ive come to appreciate that style of music its good to broaden your horizions. Still trying to get into bruce springsteen and Im failing.

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Reply #113 posted 01/13/17 6:40pm

Graycap23

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The Isley Brothers should be all over this list.

Facts don't give a funk about your opinion.
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Reply #114 posted 01/13/17 7:53pm

RJOrion

Graycap23 said:

The Isley Brothers should be all over this list.

i started to put "Go All The Way", but theres only 6 songs on that album ...and half of those are ballads or mid-tempo soul ("Here We Go Again" & "Dont Say Goodnight" & "Say You Will")... but the rest is good funk... no argument from me, i BEEN an Isley's fan..

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Reply #115 posted 01/15/17 2:30pm

214

Musicslave said:

namepeace said:


James had a little more going for him than that, with songs like "Say It Loud," "I Don't Want Nobody . . ." and "Man's World" (famously performed in later years with Pavarotti).

That said, I see your point.

-

-

Never heard/saw this before....Thanks for the lead namepeace.

To me one of the greatest live performances ever, by anyone.

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Reply #116 posted 01/16/17 9:06am

DaveT

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I think we need to be clear about what a 'creative run' is. To me that's a span of music that the individual created themselves, ie. wrote, played and recorded.

That being the case, do we have to discount individuals like MJ and Madonna because not all of the hits that made up their run were created by them? They had a hand in them, for sure, but created? That's where someone like Prince or Stevie has a much better shout.

www.filmsfilmsfilms.co.uk - The internet's best movie site!
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Reply #117 posted 01/16/17 9:30am

namepeace

DaveT said:

I think we need to be clear about what a 'creative run' is. To me that's a span of music that the individual created themselves, ie. wrote, played and recorded.

That being the case, do we have to discount individuals like MJ and Madonna because not all of the hits that made up their run were created by them? They had a hand in them, for sure, but created? That's where someone like Prince or Stevie has a much better shout.


That's fair. I tend to agree with you, but some will say that the Madonnas and MJs of the world brought others' songs to their most fully realized state.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #118 posted 01/16/17 9:56am

heathilly

namepeace said:

DaveT said:

I think we need to be clear about what a 'creative run' is. To me that's a span of music that the individual created themselves, ie. wrote, played and recorded.

That being the case, do we have to discount individuals like MJ and Madonna because not all of the hits that made up their run were created by them? They had a hand in them, for sure, but created? That's where someone like Prince or Stevie has a much better shout.


That's fair. I tend to agree with you, but some will say that the Madonnas and MJs of the world brought others' songs to their most fully realized state.

Well I think by those standards people do not include mj and madonna. I cant speak for madonna but Mj had a good creative period from destiny with his brothers to bad. No he didnt write everything or play everything and no he did not release as frequently as others but the productuin of material of that period is beyond legendary, But did he have a creative run of releasing album yearly writing playing everything doing artistic things and changes no. He wasnt that type of artist.

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Reply #119 posted 01/16/17 2:09pm

RJOrion

RJOrion said:

Graycap23 said:

The Isley Brothers should be all over this list.

i started to put "Go All The Way", but theres only 6 songs on that album ...and half of those are ballads or mid-tempo soul ("Here We Go Again" & "Dont Say Goodnight" & "Say You Will")... but the rest is good funk... no argument from me, i BEEN an Isley's fan..

my mistake...i thought i was in "the greatest funk albums of all time" thread...smh... sad

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