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Reply #30 posted 08/25/15 9:20am

Cinny

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Tontoman22 said:

Cinny said:

I don't think they are credited with many "firsts" but simply acknowledged for their impact in the medium of video. Rick James was very vocal about MTV not playing his shit, and record companies said they would pull all of their videos if MTV did not add black artists such as Michael Jackson. I don't think the record companies of Donna Summer or Diana Ross broke down those doors.

Rick James video was not played because the station programmer who was a Afro-American female didn't like the video (too sleazy for the times) and she didn't want black people respresented that way - that was back in 1981/82. MTV was not really racist (they were a rock based station) as there were not alot of record companies making videos for there artist, at that time especially black artist. Donna was played in heavy rotation, she was the black female superstar at the time. The playlist appeared in billboard back in the day. Like I said Houston was even close to being the first. Do you know how many black artist got played in heavy rotation before her ? Stevie Wonder, Lionel Ritchie, Rockwell, Eddy Grant, Diana Ross, Sade, Deniece Williams, Shannon, The Pointer Sisters, Tina Turner, Kool and the Gang, Ray Parker Jr, Chaka Khan, Billy Ocean - along with Prince, MJ & DS. I don't know where you get that BS about pulling all there vidoes' either.

You listed a lot of big names in black music for 1983 and 1984, but the fight to get Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean" on the air (circa late 1982) was what changed the rules. It's well documented with quotes from the people who ran MTV and VJ'd, as well as the record executives of the time, in a book called I Want My MTV.

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Reply #31 posted 08/25/15 9:36am

Tontoman22

Cinny said:

Tontoman22 said:

Rick James video was not played because the station programmer who was a Afro-American female didn't like the video (too sleazy for the times) and she didn't want black people respresented that way - that was back in 1981/82. MTV was not really racist (they were a rock based station) as there were not alot of record companies making videos for there artist, at that time especially black artist. Donna was played in heavy rotation, she was the black female superstar at the time. The playlist appeared in billboard back in the day. Like I said Houston was even close to being the first. Do you know how many black artist got played in heavy rotation before her ? Stevie Wonder, Lionel Ritchie, Rockwell, Eddy Grant, Diana Ross, Sade, Deniece Williams, Shannon, The Pointer Sisters, Tina Turner, Kool and the Gang, Ray Parker Jr, Chaka Khan, Billy Ocean - along with Prince, MJ & DS. I don't know where you get that BS about pulling all there vidoes' either.

You listed a lot of big names in black music for 1983 and 1984, but the fight to get Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean" on the air (circa late 1982) was what changed the rules. It's well documented with quotes from the people who ran MTV and VJ'd, as well as the record executives of the time, in a book called I Want My MTV.

Billie Jean was played in heavy rotation in 1983, and Jackson was no the first black artist played on MTV. He is credited as the first to be played in heavy rotation. I listed artist's that were all played in heavy rotation following Jackson, Summer and Prince; and before WH & JJ, I am sure I didn't get them all. That is what we are talking about. I was around to witness what was played on MTV and other stations; VH1 first music video ever played was 'Missing You" by Diana Ross. The point is 1983 is when the colour barrier came down...not 1986 and How will I know - WH. The so called rules changed was in November of 1984, the expantion to 7 playlists categories and the dedication of medium and heavy rotation going to aritst that had hits on the charts. 1984 was the year that vidoes started to become more common place for all music artists.

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Reply #32 posted 08/25/15 9:53am

Cinny

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Tontoman22 said:

Cinny said:

You listed a lot of big names in black music for 1983 and 1984, but the fight to get Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean" on the air (circa late 1982) was what changed the rules. It's well documented with quotes from the people who ran MTV and VJ'd, as well as the record executives of the time, in a book called I Want My MTV.

Billie Jean was played in heavy rotation in 1983

Right JANUARY 1983... after MTV said in 1982 they would pass on it and wait for Michael's next clip, the rock-based "Beat It" and the record company said they would be pulling all of their video clips if they didn't play "Billie Jean".

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Reply #33 posted 08/25/15 10:02am

Tontoman22

Cinny said:

Tontoman22 said:

Billie Jean was played in heavy rotation in 1983

Right JANUARY 1983... after MTV said in 1982 they would pass on it and wait for Michael's next clip, the rock-based "Beat It" and the record company said they would be pulling all of their video clips if they didn't play "Billie Jean".

Thanks - and thanks for the reference to the book I will be sure to give it a read. Anyway the point is, that the colour barrier was broken down in 1983.. So how could JJ and WH today end up getting the credit for things they had absoutely nothing to do with.

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Reply #34 posted 08/25/15 10:12am

Cinny

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Tontoman22 said:

Cinny said:

Right JANUARY 1983... after MTV said in 1982 they would pass on it and wait for Michael's next clip, the rock-based "Beat It" and the record company said they would be pulling all of their video clips if they didn't play "Billie Jean".

Thanks - and thanks for the reference to the book I will be sure to give it a read. Anyway the point is, that the colour barrier was broken down in 1983.. So how could JJ and WH today end up getting the credit for things they had absoutely nothing to do with.

Because the clips were better and the hits were bigger.

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Reply #35 posted 08/25/15 10:28am

Tontoman22

Cinny said:

Tontoman22 said:

Thanks - and thanks for the reference to the book I will be sure to give it a read. Anyway the point is, that the colour barrier was broken down in 1983.. So how could JJ and WH today end up getting the credit for things they had absoutely nothing to do with.

Because the clips were better and the hits were bigger.

W.H. vidoes from the 80's better than Tina Turner's... sorry I beg to differ. And you said nothing that makes either of them trailblazer's.

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Reply #36 posted 08/25/15 10:49am

Tontoman22

SoulAlive said:

I always thought that this was a really lame excuse.There were many 'rock videos' in the 80s where the women were scantily dressed and used as sex objects.Those videos got heavy rotation.

Tontoman22 said:

Rick James' "SuperFreak" video was not played because the station programmer who was a Afro-American female didn't like the video (too sleazy for the times) and she didn't want black people respresented that way - that was back in 1981/82.

Yep, but you have to remember that after the end of 1984. If you had a hit record and a video clip - you were going to get played. Before then it was up to the v-jays and the station.

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Reply #37 posted 08/25/15 12:02pm

Tontoman22

kitbradley said:

Donna was definately a trailblazer for women who were primarily dance music singers. But, I don't think she knocked down any doors for singers like Nippy Houston. Diana Ross was more responsible for opening doors for those types of black female Pop singers.

Donna was the first huge crossover black female solo artist. Diana Ross had number one singles, but she never had a gold album until Diana in 1980 and never won a Grammy. Roberta Flack had a big album that went plantium or double platinum in the early 1970's. Many forget about her. She won record of the year twice in 1973 and 1974. Donna had triple platinum, 2 double platinum, a platinum, 9 gold albums. Donna won the first Female Rock Grammy. She didn't just open doors for black women, she opened door for all women. She was strong and fearless. She was part of the feminist movement in the 70's, with Ann Wilson of Heart, The Runnaways and Joan Jett, Stevie Nicks the gains of the movement throughout the decade enabled women working in all area's of the music industry to assume more control over their careers. When she was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame they named the her "the Diva De Tutte Dive"... the first true Diva of the modern pop era.

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Reply #38 posted 08/25/15 1:09pm

kitbradley

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Tontoman22 said:

kitbradley said:

Donna was definately a trailblazer for women who were primarily dance music singers. But, I don't think she knocked down any doors for singers like Nippy Houston. Diana Ross was more responsible for opening doors for those types of black female Pop singers.

Donna was the first huge crossover black female solo artist. Diana Ross had number one singles, but she never had a gold album until Diana in 1980 and never won a Grammy. Roberta Flack had a big album that went plantium or double platinum in the early 1970's. Many forget about her. She won record of the year twice in 1973 and 1974. Donna had triple platinum, 2 double platinum, a platinum, 9 gold albums. Donna won the first Female Rock Grammy. She didn't just open doors for black women, she opened door for all women. She was strong and fearless. She was part of the feminist movement in the 70's, with Ann Wilson of Heart, The Runnaways and Joan Jett, Stevie Nicks the gains of the movement throughout the decade enabled women working in all area's of the music industry to assume more control over their careers. When she was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame they named the her "the Diva De Tutte Dive"... the first true Diva of the modern pop era.

Right on! fro

"It's not nice to fuck with K.B.! All you haters will see!" - Kitbradley
"The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing." - Socrates
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Reply #39 posted 08/25/15 2:20pm

Cinny

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Tontoman22 said:

Cinny said:

Because the clips were better and the hits were bigger.

W.H. vidoes from the 80's better than Tina Turner's... sorry I beg to differ. And you said nothing that makes either of them trailblazer's.

In the field of pop, I would say they had a greater impact. Is that not being a "trailbalzer"?

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Reply #40 posted 08/25/15 2:41pm

Tontoman22

Cinny said:

Tontoman22 said:

W.H. vidoes from the 80's better than Tina Turner's... sorry I beg to differ. And you said nothing that makes either of them trailblazer's.

In the field of pop, I would say they had a greater impact. Is that not being a "trailbalzer"?

NO... a trailblazer is the the one who opened doors and cleared a path. That is what a trailblazer is. The path had been cleared they were suppose to happen. Donna was first to be nominated for an MTV Award, Tina was the first to win an MTV Award. Having a bigger impact over the course of time, doesn't make you a trailblazer. When the 80's were over the musical landscape would have looked much different than when they began. As when the 90's were over..etc...MTV started in 1981 and took off in 1984 they had a year-end countdown of top 20 videos..but 1985 it was the top 100 videos, because of the increase in the medium. The popluarity and exposure artist would gain from the meduim grew as did their fame..as the decade moved on. But they didn't face what the artists before 1984 did, before one could count on having a hit record and getting your video clip played, went hand in hand.

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Reply #41 posted 08/25/15 2:45pm

MotownSubdivis
ion

SoulAlive said:

I always thought that this was a really lame excuse.There were many 'rock videos' in the 80s where the women were scantily dressed and used as sex objects.Those videos got heavy rotation.





Tontoman22 said:


Rick James' "SuperFreak" video was not played because the station programmer who was a Afro-American female didn't like the video (too sleazy for the times) and she didn't want black people respresented that way - that was back in 1981/82.


This is the very first time I've heard this story. I don't buy it. Who's to say that the station programmer regardless of being black didn't have the execs and higher ups breathing down her necks when it came to the decisions she made? There's that and that MTV was called MTV (Music Television) yet played very near nothing but rock videos and featured a lineup composed almost if not entirely of rock artists until the advent of "Billie Jean".
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Reply #42 posted 08/25/15 2:51pm

SoulAlive

^^I think the "SuperFreak" video is actually rather tame,compared to many other videos that MTV aired.

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Reply #43 posted 08/25/15 3:05pm

Cinny

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Tontoman22 said:

Cinny said:

In the field of pop, I would say they had a greater impact. Is that not being a "trailbalzer"?

NO... a trailblazer is the the one who opened doors and cleared a path. That is what a trailblazer is. The path had been cleared they were suppose to happen. Donna was first to be nominated for an MTV Award, Tina was the first to win an MTV Award. Having a bigger impact over the course of time, doesn't make you a trailblazer. When the 80's were over the musical landscape would have looked much different than when they began. As when the 90's were over..etc...MTV started in 1981 and took off in 1984 they had a year-end countdown of top 20 videos..but 1985 it was the top 100 videos, because of the increase in the medium. The popluarity and exposure artist would gain from the meduim grew as did their fame..as the decade moved on. But they didn't face what the artists before 1984 did, before one could count on having a hit record and getting your video clip played, went hand in hand.

Who said Whitney Houston was a trailblazer anyway? LOL The misspelling in the thread title is bugging me now.

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Reply #44 posted 08/25/15 3:09pm

Tontoman22

MotownSubdivision said:

SoulAlive said:

I always thought that this was a really lame excuse.There were many 'rock videos' in the 80s where the women were scantily dressed and used as sex objects.Those videos got heavy rotation.

This is the very first time I've heard this story. I don't buy it. Who's to say that the station programmer regardless of being black didn't have the execs and higher ups breathing down her necks when it came to the decisions she made? There's that and that MTV was called MTV (Music Television) yet played very near nothing but rock videos and featured a lineup composed almost if not entirely of rock artists until the advent of "Billie Jean".

Her name was Carolyn B. Baker and she personally rejected the video, she said it was a piece of crap. There were a select few black artist that got played before Billie Jean breaking into heavy rotation. MJ, Prince, Eddy Grant, Donna Summer, Herbie Hancock, The Specials.

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Reply #45 posted 08/25/15 3:14pm

Tontoman22

Cinny said:

Tontoman22 said:

NO... a trailblazer is the the one who opened doors and cleared a path. That is what a trailblazer is. The path had been cleared they were suppose to happen. Donna was first to be nominated for an MTV Award, Tina was the first to win an MTV Award. Having a bigger impact over the course of time, doesn't make you a trailblazer. When the 80's were over the musical landscape would have looked much different than when they began. As when the 90's were over..etc...MTV started in 1981 and took off in 1984 they had a year-end countdown of top 20 videos..but 1985 it was the top 100 videos, because of the increase in the medium. The popluarity and exposure artist would gain from the meduim grew as did their fame..as the decade moved on. But they didn't face what the artists before 1984 did, before one could count on having a hit record and getting your video clip played, went hand in hand.

Who said Whitney Houston was a trailblazer anyway? LOL The misspelling in the thread title is bugging me now.

I have read it in more than a few articles on the net, I have also read some from back in the day that said she was no trailblazer. Her wiki bio is a hoot - really. Not only is she a trailblazer for the blacks but other minority's including Hispanics. I guess they have never heard of Linda Ronstadt, Julio Igleasis or Shelia E all before Houston...Shelia was nominated for 3 MTV awards, before Houston.

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Reply #46 posted 08/25/15 3:17pm

Tontoman22

SoulAlive said:

^^I think the "SuperFreak" video is actually rather tame,compared to many other videos that MTV aired.

I completely agree, although can you think of another video at the time - that had women half dressed.

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Reply #47 posted 08/25/15 7:48pm

SoulAlive

Tontoman22 said:

SoulAlive said:

During her 1983 concerts,Donna would perform the song "Woman" and start by saying "This is for all the women out there".Some of the gay guys would cheer too,and Donna said "God made Adam and Eve,not Adam and Steve".A gay writer,Jim Feldman,criticized her for this remark in his review of the show.

Any other 'anti-gay' comments atttributed to Donna are just rumors and no one can ever provide a real source.But she did make the Adam and Eve comment.It was tasteless perhaps but not nearly as terrible as the other comments that she has been (falsely) accused of saying.

I read an article about people that were in the audience at that concert in Atlantic City, and they said the crowd laughed - it was meant as a joke - and was taken as a joke. But the Feldman had an agenda - there had been a story about her getting into it in Florida in November 1983. This is were everthing had started. She tell people she was coming back - if anyone was interesting in hearing about how God had changed her life - to stick around she would be back in 5. She got into a heated argument with some gay fans that called her a hypocrite for praying with a fan who was sick with AIDS. They were the one's who first reported the story of her homophobia. Again had they stuck around they would have seen her hugging and praying with this guy (most people wouldn't have went near him in those days), they left angry. They even burnt her records in San Francisco's gay villiage (ala Dixie Chicks) in 1984.

That whole situation is so sad confused There was a backlash against her for something that she didn't even say! It was so unfair.I heard that gays were even going into record stores and placing stickers on her albums...the stickers said "This is an anti-gay recording.Do not buy this record" disbelief

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Reply #48 posted 08/25/15 8:45pm

SoulAlive

Some other things that make Donna a trailblazer....

***Her 1977 hit single "I Feel Love" is the first real techno song,and it has influenced numerous DJs,producers,and artists.There is a story about John Lennon hearing this song and proclaiming that it's "the sound of the future".Looks like he was right.

***In the disco era,there were a ton of disco divas putting out disco singles.But Donna's style of disco was so much more eclectic and diverse.She was mixing rock with disco ("Hot Stuff"),R&B with disco ("Bad Girls"),and even duetting with megastar Barbra Streisand on "Enough Is Enough".Donna's music was taking disco to many new and exciting places.....taking it to another whole level! And while most disco artists were simply making disco albums,Donna was making 'concept albums',in which stories were being told in the music (Four Seasons Of Love,I Remember Yesterday,Once Upon A Time).She and her producers deserve alot of credit for that.

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Reply #49 posted 08/26/15 8:32am

Tontoman22

SoulAlive said:

Some other things that make Donna a trailblazer....

***Her 1977 hit single "I Feel Love" is the first real techno song,and it has influenced numerous DJs,producers,and artists.There is a story about John Lennon hearing this song and proclaiming that it's "the sound of the future".Looks like he was right.

***In the disco era,there were a ton of disco divas putting out disco singles.But Donna's style of disco was so much more eclectic and diverse.She was mixing rock with disco ("Hot Stuff"),R&B with disco ("Bad Girls"),and even duetting with megastar Barbra Streisand on "Enough Is Enough".Donna's music was taking disco to many new and exciting places.....taking it to another whole level! And while most disco artists were simply making disco albums,Donna was making 'concept albums',in which stories were being told in the music (Four Seasons Of Love,I Remember Yesterday,Once Upon A Time).She and her producers deserve alot of credit for that.

The team of Moroder/Belotte/Summer blazed a pioneering trail in music. They were also the first to have songs seuging into one anther so the album's music was continuous. The first to do what is called a suite which is one side on continuous music of diffferent songs, seamelssly as one. The first to do a greatest hits album with different mixes than the original hits. They are responsible for the extended/maxi single...they were the first to offer it commerically to the consumer and not just for the DJ's. Also Donna starting as song as a ballad and then going into uptempo (Last Dance), which became a bit of a trade mark for her (Mac Arthur Park, On the Radio). But it was used by other artists - noteablely by Irene Cara - Flashdance.

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Reply #50 posted 08/26/15 9:48am

Cinny

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Unfortunately, I think it is a misunderstanding regarding her faith, which is personal anyway and certainly did not reflect in her secular recordings.

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Reply #51 posted 08/26/15 1:25pm

Tontoman22

Cinny said:

Unfortunately, I think it is a misunderstanding regarding her faith, which is personal anyway and certainly did not reflect in her secular recordings.

I do agree with that. I also feel the gay community has never took responsibility for the prejuduice that she receive because of her faith; they were certain she was homophobic becasue she was born again. It was easy to believe. It was a different world back then, the churches were highly critical of homosexuality; and it wasn't unitl the 90's until some churchs were accepting of gays. Donna's music was the back beat to the gay rights movement in the 70's, and now the gay community was facing HIV/AIDS and she was born again. The press made a huge deal of it back in 1983, before she starting touring again - almost implying that she would be singing Gospel songs - that didn't happen. Unfortunately for her - her decision to share her life changing with her fans after her concerts, ended up being a bad one.

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Reply #52 posted 08/26/15 6:23pm

hifidelity67

I miss her .. she was the best

http://www.dailymotion.co...rt-1_music
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Reply #53 posted 08/27/15 1:02pm

lowkey

ive never heard anyone credit whitney and janet for being trailblazers on mtv. by the time they came along there were several black artists being played.matter fact i dont even know what op is talking about with this thread. if somebody feels Donna doesnt get her just due or whatever i can understand that but i dont see how whitney and janet has anything to do with it,they are not even from the same era.those ladies have alot of firsts on their resume as well.

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Reply #54 posted 09/10/15 4:13pm

Cinny

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UNEARTHED: DONNA SUMMER REJECTED "HALLELUJAH, IT'S RAINING MEN, AMEN"


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Reply #55 posted 09/11/15 4:52pm

badujunkie

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What female black/r&B or dance artist HAS been given their due?

I'll leave it alone babe...just be me
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Reply #56 posted 09/11/15 8:31pm

SoulAlive

The other night,I was listening to Donna's 1976 Four Seasons Of Love album and I can't believe how weak her vocals are on this album! It's obvious that her producers (and Casablanca Records) wanted her to keep on portraying the "sex goddess" role.On this album,she doesn't really use the full power of her voice.The two albums that came before it are the same way.These albums have some good moments,but it's frustrating to hear her holding back,vocally.

but when "Last Dance" became a smash hit,that was a pivotal moment.Listeners finally got to hear the full power of her voice and there was no turning back.

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Reply #57 posted 09/16/15 4:21am

thedance

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^ I just love all of her Casablanca records.. very deeply. heart boogie music

Starting with "Love To Love You Baby", ending with the "On The Radio (Compilation)"

+ 2 from Gaffen/ WB (being The Wanderer + her 1982 no title ablbum).

The rest of her albums aren't my cup of tea at all.. to be honest. That Stock Aitken Waterman music.. oh no... yuck.. terrible.. feeling ill

("I'm a Rainbow", I own this as well.. but I have been listening 1-2 times only, can't get into this album, it needs more "work" from me I guess?)

Conclussion, nobody made it better in the 70's when talking about this genre "DISCO"... Donna Summer was so really hot,

the Queen of Disco, she owned that title... love worship

Prince 4Ever. heart
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Reply #58 posted 09/16/15 4:26am

thedance

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trailblazer - is a new word for me.. (I had to look it up lol)..

Donna Summer sure was a pioneer in her own rights. cool

Prince 4Ever. heart
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Reply #59 posted 09/16/15 6:10am

kitbradley

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Tontoman22 said:

Cinny said:

Unfortunately, I think it is a misunderstanding regarding her faith, which is personal anyway and certainly did not reflect in her secular recordings.

I do agree with that. I also feel the gay community has never took responsibility for the prejuduice that she receive because of her faith; they were certain she was homophobic becasue she was born again. It was easy to believe. It was a different world back then, the churches were highly critical of homosexuality; and it wasn't unitl the 90's until some churchs were accepting of gays. Donna's music was the back beat to the gay rights movement in the 70's, and now the gay community was facing HIV/AIDS and she was born again. The press made a huge deal of it back in 1983, before she starting touring again - almost implying that she would be singing Gospel songs - that didn't happen. Unfortunately for her - her decision to share her life changing with her fans after her concerts, ended up being a bad one.

Some but very few. The world may be starting to evolve and become more accepting of gay men but the black church has not changed on their stance. But, that's a whole different topic. biggrin

"It's not nice to fuck with K.B.! All you haters will see!" - Kitbradley
"The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing." - Socrates
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