DonRants said:

My bad I only saw two.

Free2BMe said:

When I went through these I was waiting for something to "jump" out that would confirm what Scorp was claiming. NOTHING that he claimed was found in these videos. What I saw and heard in the videos was all of the Jackson brothers saying that Joe was very strict with them and that at the time that he punished them they didn't understand why; however, NOW they understand it. Not one time did they say that Joe did NOT whip or discipline them. Of course, Scorp(with his AGENDA) will lie and claim that they refuted Michael. None of them have ever done that. I have seen interviews of the Jacksons when Michael was alive and Marlon and the rest have said that Joe was VERY strict with them and that they received whippings a lot. Their stance on Joe's whippings and discipline has changed a little since they are doing interviews since Michael's death. They are saying that they understand WHY Joe's discipline was so brutal or hard. The bottom line is that Scorp, as usual, is trying to make Michael seem as if he lied about Joe whipping and strict discipline, when what Michael said was true. NO JACKSON has refuted that claim. Finally, I have never heard Michael say any statement about being "oiled" and then whipped. Is their a recording of Michael's ACTUAL voice saying this OR is this the claim of that piece of scum Schumely Boteach. [Edited 8/1/15 8:19am]

as usual, free2bme panicked and jumped the gun

accusing me of having and agenda when u are the one w/the agenda trying to prove I have an agenda....

I have zero agenda......the Jacksons dont' know me from Adam

all I am is an individual who simply bought the records and watched the videos and witness this whole situation transpire and evolve over time.......

and you totally tried to warp what I posted......I guess I'll have to bold print to make things stand out more

If u reread what I said, I never said that Joe did not displine them or was tough on them, I said he did not abuse them,

let me repeat that just incase the power went out

I never said that Joe did not discipline them or was not tough on them, I said he did not abuse them.....

and just to be on teh safe side, I will say it for a third time since they say third time is the charm

I never said Joe did not discipline them or was tough on them, I said he did not abuse them

u did it again free2bme....u jumped the gun

why in the world would I say that when the brothers themselves said he was a disciplinarian and that he was strict and made sure they understood

allot of kids may not understand why certain things happened until they grow up themselves and have kids of their own.....this ain't nothin new

do we really think Joe Jackson was the only father on the planet earth who did not discipline their kids.....we never hear about the Osmonds father George was, and how he was even more strict than Joe Jackson was AND he was superreligious as he was a Mormon raising his family....

what most fans can't see his how the family dynamic has been exploited on all fronts, by the end of the 80s, the family dynamic was already destroyed and shredded, it was already toast as opportunists sought eagerly to draw Michael away from his family since he was the most successful member

does anyone really believe Latoya's claims that Joe sexually abused her and Rebbie when Rebbie responded the first chance she got and refuted all that......because it didn't happen and then tried to get Janet's name in it and Janet shut that down w/a purpose

can't people see Latoya did that for publicity to promote her career at teh end of the 80s

even Janet says just like the brothers that not only was Joseph strict but so was Katherine

and that's what people never seem to get, it wasn't just the father being strict, but the mother too

that stuff about sexual abuse was so outlandish, I didn't believe in that for one second and years later, she recanted all of that because she knew it wasn't true and she wasn't as concerned about fame at that point...

now if you are really sexually abused, you not gone flip flop like that...either you was violated or you was not.....

none of the other brothers, Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, Marlon or Randy NEVER said they were abused, they all said their father was strict and may have been to tough at times

but as Jackie said in that interview with Matt Lauer on the Today show, he said that if kids parents didn't discipline their kids, then other parents/adults in teh neighborhood would

but if we look at the total picture, none of them ever has been in trouble w/the law, we have not heard stories about them being hooked on drugs, or destroyed by teh vices of Hollywood...not saying they haven't made mistakes like we all have, but Joseph Jackson did something right because most teen acts wind up on the wasteside when they reach adulthood and his family did not. I'm not saying he was the perfect father or that he was not overbearing at times but he was not who he has been portrayed to be over the past quarter century when a following and a media base continue to look for scapegoats as to really happened to Michael Jackson

and by Michael being the most famous figure on earth, and being who he was, when he started making public claims about abuse in the late 80s, how in the world was his brothers going to convince people otherwise when we know good and well most of MJ's fans, such as yourself believe him, they were caught up in a catch 22

Michael is the most successful and influential entertainer of the modern era, and he deserves that mark of distinction....no doubt about it.....but he exaggerated and misled his fans about being abused...I know many don't like to hear that

I'll leave for the afternoon w/this shining moment

THIS is when it wa all good, THIS is when it was a beautiful thing, THIS represented the good times before everything went to crap

when Michael stood up on that podium to receive those Grammys in 1984, he was the most respected musical figure on wax, his family was given their props for their contribution to the musical arts and entertainment, it made you feel awesome to witness such achievement

now tell me how did it get from that to what people believe today?

[Edited 8/1/15 11:17am]

DonRants said:

Scorp..when you share an hour of videos please say where the important parts are. I want to see your points..I just don't have the time to watch it all.

One of the points that needs to be made is that yes, Joe did hit his kids. Even Katherine admited that in those days most people did. Yes he was strict. The question to me is did it go too far. For MJ, it apparently did. Who feels it knows it and MJ felt it. Does the fact that Joe hit his children make him a bad man...not necessarily. "Spare the rod and spoil the chiild" was repeated in churches for centuries and taken as the way tool to raise good kids.

Also, there seems to be some evidence that some of MJ's reports were exaggerated. MJ told that Shmuel Boteach in a recording that his Dad would "oil him up and hit him with a belt so it sticks". Most of the other Jacksons flat out deny such extremes. Could MJ have been exaggerating? Possibly.

Two years ago, I had a friend from Indianna. She was white and was bused into Gary, Indianna around the late 1960s, right around when the Jacksons were breaking out. She would visit with a black family who had a girl her age, the father was a policeman. She told me she was shocked how strict her father (the policeman) was. The girl could not do anything without her father knowing. She came to realise that was the way of most of the caring parents in the neighbourhood. They literally had to get their children to fear them, more than the other traps which were waiting for them in the streets.

[Edited 7/31/15 18:49pm]

loollll...Possibly.........

try absolutely.......

when I first heard that......you know what I did?....I started laughing....lolllll

because I knew it wasn't true......Michael knew it wasn't true

I think the issue is that the fans can't see, dont' see, unable to see how much they have been manipulated when they think other people who are trying to point stuff out are some kind of hater when it's the furthest thing from the truth

those "secret tapes" was pure P.R. stunt maneuvers......I'm just being real about it

and this is why when Joe Jackson has been asked those questions over the years, especially durign the late 80s and 90s, know what he did?...he had a smirk on his face

[Edited 8/1/15 11:24am]

Scorp said:

Free2BMe said:

Scorp, everyone with even a semblance of a brain KNOWS that LaToya was LYING when she said that Joe sexually abused her. Just like she was lying when she made those claims against Michael. Michael has never claimed that Joe "abused" him. I have only heard Michael say that he received whippings/beatings. All of Michael's brothers have said the same thing. Why are you CONVENIENTLY ignoring what they have said? Of course, your agenda is obvious in every post- lift up everyone in the Jackson family; but, do everything to tear Michael down. Blame everything on Michael and ignore what the other Jacksons have done. Don't deny this, it's in basically all of your posts. "You throw stones, and hide your hands." Btw, speaking of manipulation, I would say that YOU have been manipulated by the media and I truly feel sorry for you. [Edited 8/1/15 13:18pm]

Free2BMe

wait a minute, from 1988 to 2009, 21 years.......you never ever heard him say that he was a victim of abuse when the world has been talkin about it over all this time during this span, when the media took that and ran away with it?

that's been a topic of conversation for over 2 decades......

if Latoya was lying about what she said, which you just stated, what makes you think that Michael wasn't lying...they both accused the same person of different forms of abuse....

I know exactly what the brothers have said because I've seen all their interviews (the ones that count) over the years......

as far as me being manipulated by teh media. I think u got the wrong person because I never ever relied on the media to inform me about anything regarding this situation.....why would I want to rely on a source who concludes Michael Jackson started wearing the sparkled glove in 1983 during Motown 25 when the real fact is that he started sporting the single glove 4 years earlier in 1979......

and I dont' rely on all these books that's been written about Michael over the years eithers, especially the books written in the past 5 years where the majority of these people didn't start following Michael until the 90s and beyond

I'm not trying to lift anyone up, because when you pull back the layers from everything that has been said, the truth is staring right there in front of us

now, I'm a show you something then I'm a chill for the evening........and this is just an intro as to how fans have been manipulated.....

now I'm going to quote someone who posted the other day, this was the person's exact words verbatim

MJ has openly said in the past that his older brothers had it worse than he did, but Michael was the golden goose, the pressure on MJ to deliver would likely be greater than the other brothers, after all he was the frontman and lead singer.

this fan who posted this the other day believes in what MJ said about his older brothers getting the worst of whatever supposedly took place.........

but wait a minute

here's a clip of Michael having another conversation about his "abuse"

now fast forward to the end of the clip and what do you hear? starting specifically at 5:10 of the clip.......

Even though you can say that it helped mold MJ into a career-driven superstar who ended up eventually becoming the biggest pop star of all time, that isn't enough to justify Joe's actions. Joe was wrong for that. However, I forget where exactly Michael said it, but didn't he say that he forgave and understood where Joe had come from? That he had had a horrible upbringing himself and was determined to keep his children from a crappy future. EITHER WAY, Michael forgave his father in the final decade of his life, was supported by him during his trial, and wanted his help at the end of his life to escape. That, and Janet's own devotion to him, the siblings who seem to respect him, and even Latoya who claims everything she stated in the late-80s/early-90s were lies forced on her by her abusive ex-husband, causes me to think he deserves a break. If his own family has moved on, why should the general public hold a grudge? He didn't hurt us.

Also, people aren't all the same. Some people have unusual ways of dealing with grief. When my friend's grandmother died, his grandfather (who loved her deeply) immediately continued to go on business meetings and such because he didn't want to face the truth. Joe's act at the BET Awards was weird, but it didn't necessarily mean he didn't care about Michael. I mean, this was his first child to die, since Brandon in 1957. The way he dealt with it is his own business.

Free2BMe said:

Finally, I have never heard Michael say any statement about being "oiled" and then whipped. Is their a recording of Michael's ACTUAL voice saying this OR is this the claim of that piece of scum Schumely Boteach. [Edited 8/1/15 8:19am]

Yes there is a recording.

Also I think you guys are spliting hairs. Abuse or whippings mean the same thing. To say MJ was whipped but not abused is a bit ludicrous. The other thing is, if my memory serves me well hitting children only started being discouraged by psychologist in the 1970 to 80s. Before that, it depends on the parent's or adults discreation about when was too much. I remember schools in Britain and the British common wealth where teachers would beat kids right up to that time. Remember Pink Floyd's The Wall...it shows such a scene. Even mild forms of corporal punishment today are called abuse.

To judge Joe Jackson or anyone else for what they did in the 1960s and 1970s by today's standards is unfair.

Marlon's comments about the lack of discipline of today's kids is right on. Many parents only knew corporal punishment as the way to shape behavior and get discipline. No one told them about the book "Don't Shoot the Dog" by Karen Pryor which shows how to get disired behavior without hitting.

Moving on to something different than Joe, how about the album Triumph, easily one of the best by the Jacksons. The songs "Heartbreak Hotel" and "Walk right now" are just amazing, I can't get enough of them and of course Michael's vocal ability.

.

Who else loves Triumph?

CharismaDove said:

Even though you can say that it helped mold MJ into a career-driven superstar who ended up eventually becoming the biggest pop star of all time, that isn't enough to justify Joe's actions. Joe was wrong for that. However, I forget where exactly Michael said it, but didn't he say that he forgave and understood where Joe had come from? That he had had a horrible upbringing himself and was determined to keep his children from a crappy future. EITHER WAY, Michael forgave his father in the final decade of his life, was supported by him during his trial, and wanted his help at the end of his life to escape. That, and Janet's own devotion to him, the siblings who seem to respect him, and even Latoya who claims everything she stated in the late-80s/early-90s were lies forced on her by her abusive ex-husband, causes me to think he deserves a break. If his own family has moved on, why should the general public hold a grudge? He didn't hurt us.

Also, people aren't all the same. Some people have unusual ways of dealing with grief. When my friend's grandmother died, his grandfather (who loved her deeply) immediately continued to go on business meetings and such because he didn't want to face the truth. Joe's act at the BET Awards was weird, but it didn't necessarily mean he didn't care about Michael. I mean, this was his first child to die, since Brandon in 1957. The way he dealt with it is his own business.

he definitely deserves a break, for the past 25 plus years, the entire globe from USA to Austrailia think this man was a tyrant when he really wasn't......

I like Latoya and knew during that whole period, she was being coerced to say all those things she accused about her father and family because the day her then husband actually beat her to an inch of her life, her brother Randy flew to New York to fly her back home and she never made those accusations ever again......

this illustrates how the family dynamic was totally exploited and severed by the end of the 80s

if people really stop to look at the entire picture, what was being said about Joe supposedly occurred when they were being raised as children, but we NEVER EVER heard any reports about Joe acting vile towards them in real time

the way this family has been attacked over time for absolutely NO legit reason, the entire public, commercial media and fans who believed in the fables, and upheld them owe them a great apology.....

Jermaine Jackson gave this interview in 1991 talking about how opportunists were trying to exploit the family to draw out its most successful members.....he begins talking about it at 6:57 of this clip

Jermaine was talking about the family being susceptable to opportunists as early as 1984

[Edited 8/2/15 5:37am]

Free2BMe said:

Scorp said:

as usual, free2bme panicked and jumped the gun

accusing me of having and agenda when u are the one w/the agenda trying to prove I have an agenda....

I have zero agenda......the Jacksons dont' know me from Adam

all I am is an individual who simply bought the records and watched the videos and witness this whole situation transpire and evolve over time.......

and you totally tried to warp what I posted......I guess I'll have to bold print to make things stand out more

If u reread what I said, I never said that Joe did not displine them or was tough on them, I said he did not abuse them,

let me repeat that just incase the power went out

I never said that Joe did not discipline them or was not tough on them, I said he did not abuse them.....

and just to be on teh safe side, I will say it for a third time since they say third time is the charm

I never said Joe did not discipline them or was tough on them, I said he did not abuse them

u did it again free2bme....u jumped the gun

why in the world would I say that when the brothers themselves said he was a disciplinarian and that he was strict and made sure they understood

allot of kids may not understand why certain things happened until they grow up themselves and have kids of their own.....this ain't nothin new

do we really think Joe Jackson was the only father on the planet earth who did not discipline their kids.....we never hear about the Osmonds father George was, and how he was even more strict than Joe Jackson was AND he was superreligious as he was a Mormon raising his family....

what most fans can't see his how the family dynamic has been exploited on all fronts, by the end of the 80s, the family dynamic was already destroyed and shredded, it was already toast as opportunists sought eagerly to draw Michael away from his family since he was the most successful member

does anyone really believe Latoya's claims that Joe sexually abused her and Rebbie when Rebbie responded the first chance she got and refuted all that......because it didn't happen and then tried to get Janet's name in it and Janet shut that down w/a purpose

can't people see Latoya did that for publicity to promote her career at teh end of the 80s

even Janet says just like the brothers that not only was Joseph strict but so was Katherine

and that's what people never seem to get, it wasn't just the father being strict, but the mother too

that stuff about sexual abuse was so outlandish, I didn't believe in that for one second and years later, she recanted all of that because she knew it wasn't true and she wasn't as concerned about fame at that point...

now if you are really sexually abused, you not gone flip flop like that...either you was violated or you was not.....

none of the other brothers, Jackie, Tito, Jermaine, Marlon or Randy NEVER said they were abused, they all said their father was strict and may have been to tough at times

but as Jackie said in that interview with Matt Lauer on the Today show, he said that if kids parents didn't discipline their kids, then other parents/adults in teh neighborhood would

but if we look at the total picture, none of them ever has been in trouble w/the law, we have not heard stories about them being hooked on drugs, or destroyed by teh vices of Hollywood...not saying they haven't made mistakes like we all have, but Joseph Jackson did something right because most teen acts wind up on the wasteside when they reach adulthood and his family did not. I'm not saying he was the perfect father or that he was not overbearing at times but he was not who he has been portrayed to be over the past quarter century when a following and a media base continue to look for scapegoats as to really happened to Michael Jackson

and by Michael being the most famous figure on earth, and being who he was, when he started making public claims about abuse in the late 80s, how in the world was his brothers going to convince people otherwise when we know good and well most of MJ's fans, such as yourself believe him, they were caught up in a catch 22

Michael is the most successful and influential entertainer of the modern era, and he deserves that mark of distinction....no doubt about it.....but he exaggerated and misled his fans about being abused...I know many don't like to hear that

I'll leave for the afternoon w/this shining moment

THIS is when it wa all good, THIS is when it was a beautiful thing, THIS represented the good times before everything went to crap

when Michael stood up on that podium to receive those Grammys in 1984, he was the most respected musical figure on wax, his family was given their props for their contribution to the musical arts and entertainment, it made you feel awesome to witness such achievement

now tell me how did it get from that to what people believe today?

[Edited 8/1/15 11:17am]

So are you denying that Joe "whipped"( some people call that a "beating")Jermaine, Jackie, Marlon, Tito AND Michael have admitted that they were Whipped. So are you saying that ALL of them lied. None of them used the word "abuse". [Edited 8/1/15 12:49pm]

I'm not denying anything free2bme....

Joe Jackson said himself, he tagged his children whenever they got outta line

I got tagged coming up as a kid when I got outta line but I wasn't abused

I realize none of them used the word abuse because they wasn't abused.....that's the main point

just think about it,

you have parents in the 70s and 80s who have been forced to justify how they raised their kids 40 years ago, and the children who have now raised children are forced to talk about it constantly

nobody else associated w/the public realm has to address stuff like this well into their adult life

Scorp said:

DonRants said:

Adorecream said:

Free2BMe said:

Scorp said:

I'm not denying anything free2bme....

Joe Jackson said himself, he tagged his children whenever they got outta line

I got tagged coming up as a kid when I got outta line but I wasn't abused

I realize none of them used the word abuse because they wasn't abused.....that's the main point

just think about it,

you have parents in the 70s and 80s who have been forced to justify how they raised their kids 40 years ago, and the children who have now raised children are forced to talk about it constantly

nobody else associated w/the public realm has to address stuff like this well into their adult life

Again, you LIE and say that Michael used the word "abuse". I have looked at all the clips that you posted and not one did I hear Michael use the word ABUSE. Can you find where Michael used word abuse. The only person who used the word abuse was LaToya when she claimed that Joe sexually abused her. Of course, you simply ignore that it was LaToya who used the word abuse and never Michael. Michael has said that he was whipped. In the black community, sometimes a whipping was called a beating. I heard people say the word beating all the time when I was growing up. ""Boy or girl, you're going to get a beating.." Parents didn't mean they were going to take a stick and beat a child up side their heads, it would mean the child was whipped with a belt,switch, etc. This is exactly what Michael said. It is what the other brothers have said. It is what the movie "American Dream" portrayed. The movie in which Jermaine was Executive Producer. Jermaine approved that movie that portrayed Joe as ALL of the siblings portrayed him. As usual, you come to this forum and manipulate the truth. Maybe, if you were young and naive, I would have more respect for you. However, you are not young, you are "old" and the things that you say about Michael are deliberate and calculated. Where in your so-called proof did Michael use the word "abuse"? I've seen your use of the word. I've seen some fans use that word and I have certainly seen the media use it, because they are the ones who started it. Not a single clip that you posted showed Michael saying that Michael abused him. Joe knows that he whipped Michael and his brothers A LOT!! He didn't just tap or spank them. I don't take use of the word abuse lightly and you are manipulating and accusing Michael of using that word, when you have yet to show proof of your accusation. Of course, that's nothing new with you. [Edited 8/2/15 6:14am]

that's the thing, we ain't the ones who started it......

this was not even a subject of conversation from 1969-1987

not until Michael saw that the follow up to the biggest selling album of all time was not going to outsell the biggest selling album of all time

when he saw Bad wasn't going to outsell Thriller, this is when we started seeing one person after the other being chosen to be scapegoats.......beginning in 1988, that's when we started hearing about Joe Jackson being abusive, also when Bad didn't meet his expectations, he changed producers and fired his manager

it wasn't fans of his who put this out there to the public....Michael started it, then Latoya went 2.0 with it

as far as that Jackson Movie, it was very exciting to watch, and even though Jermaine Jackson was executive producer, that doesn't mean he had the "final se" as to everything that was what was going to be depicted

and just to apply your differentiation between the technical use of the words beating vs abuse...

well, Jackie had something to say about that in this interview w/his brother Jermaine in 2004 before that 2005 trial occured

what did Jackie say at 2:46 of the clip? he said his exact words "Michael never got spankings, they could never catch him"

JACKIE JACKSON said that..not me......and he would know what went down more than any fan of MJ.......

we ain't even talkin about abuse, we are just talking about spankings...Jackie said in that interview that MJ never got spankings.......AND Jackie mentions how his family has been vilified over the years and JErmaine says if they had known this was the price they would have to pay for success, they would have stayed in Gary, Indiana......

see, this is how warped it is....whereas rather than seeing them talk about all the good years, the memorable performances, the achievements of each group member, family member, they are forced to have to talk about stuff that has been greatly exaggerated over the years....that causes extremes points of view...

what I'm saying is, Jackie's way of objecting to the notion his Joe abused Michael is by saying he never got spankings when I'm sure Joe displined him to when the situation called for it, as Michael was just like any other kid needing to know right from wrong...Jackie has to exaggerate to defend the way his parents raised him

when no other public figure his age is forced to do 40 years after the fact

do you think this scene was real

Free2BMe said:

Sorry Don, abuse and whippings do not mean the same thing, IMO. Abuse is when a child is burned, beaten over the head, not given food for days, etc. A whipping is not the same, unless a person goes overboard and does some of the things I mentioned. I am one of those people who think that the word abuse is used too much now days. It's sickening. I believe in the word abuse, but not unless it warrants use. [Edited 8/2/15 7:38am]

The thing is who decides when you have gone too far. In my book, whipping anyone or any animal is abusive. I think there are much better ways to accomplish the desired result with none of the downside. I witnessed spankings, hitting and canning of other children at school. There were better ways. I remember the teacher who kept her class the most disciplined in school was a lady from Scotland. If someone was talking when they shouldn't or doing any other behavior she would just say "Stand you to the back." The kid would have to get out of their seat and stand at the back of the room until she saw fit to let them return to their seat. She would not lay a finger on anyone...yet her class was the most disciplined because no one wanted to be standing at the back of the class room and have your classmates sneaking glances and giggling and laughing after you. The teachers who hit were almost always reviled by the students. The following video when viewed from the point of view of hitting children is very good in the way it captures the alienation. It also shows that sometimes the worse abuse is verbal..."by pouring derision on anything we did"....brilliant.

[Edited 8/2/15 10:59am]

Scorp said:

Free2BMe said:

Scorp said:

Adorecream said:

Free2BMe said:

Scorp said:

U just said in your previous post that some fans and the media started it did,u not

No, I said that the media started the use of the word "abuse", and SOME fans and other people (YOU) started using that word when Michael described Joe's use of corporal punishment on him and his siblings. Your claim or your lie is that Michael said Joe abused him. Michael never said Joe abused him. That's the problem I have with you. You MANIPULATE words to fit your AGENDA. In case some are wondering what Scorp's agenda is: to make Jacksons look like saints,to excuse every action that they have done against a loved one, Michael, since his murder AND portray Michael in the worst light possible. Damn,I'm waiting for Scorp to blame Michael for floods, wars, etc.; he has blamed him for everything else.

I'm not trying to make the Jacksons look like saints.....

I didn't say they were saints before all this started........

I don't even use the word abuse because I dont' believe it ever took place

Latoya Jackson didn't start talking about her "ordeal" until a year after MJ started claiming abuse in 1988 when record sales were not meeting expectations

u said you didn't believe Michael said Joe spread oil on a whip and used it on him when another person mention he did say that on those "secret tapes"...........

let's take the word abuse out the convo, and we can still question if he was ever "beaten".....

when his own brother Jackie said that Michael was never beaten

what I don't understand is how you can say and know Latoya made all that up when she is related to a person who made similar claims publically.....

Free2BMe said:

Adorecream said:

Moving on to something different than Joe, how about the album Triumph, easily one of the best by the Jacksons. The songs "Heartbreak Hotel" and "Walk right now" are just amazing, I can't get enough of them and of course Michael's vocal ability.

.

Who else loves Triumph?

I love the album Triumph. What are your favorite tracks?

Walk right now and This place hotel (Heartbreak hotel)

Watching that video posted above ^^^^

Latoya and Janet in the mid 80s

MJ had hot ass sisters

But we all know Latoya got that nosejob.. and then the one after.. and the one after that. No need to deny it

Adorecream said:

Free2BMe said:

http://abcnews.go.com/Ent...d=12096746 This is an interesting article/interview where Katherine admits that Joe whipped Michael and his brothers. It also mentions that Oprah admits that she was whipped as a child. I can't wait to see how Scorp MaNIPULATES this article to put the Blame on Michael for what Katherine ADMITS. Of course, Scorp has ranted and raved that Michael was lying when he said that Joe whipped him and his brothers.

still not answering the core question

both Joe and katherine have stated they whipped their children

do you really believe those were the only two people who ever existed to whip their kdis

I got whippings when I did something bad, but I didn't get abused

as I mentioned earlier as early as 1988, Michael Jackson started teh whole subject about being abused, then Latoya followed that and added an entire different layer to it beginning in 1989 by accusing Joe of sexual abuse

now if you don't believe her, if you conclude that she fabricated all of that, then how can you believe Michael 100% when he was the first person who introduced the subject to the media and public?......

Free2BMe said: