I rarely use that word actually... many artists that people claim ''sold out'' i defend. Whether it's Prince, Stevie Wonder, Lenny Kravitz, Metallica (1991 Metallica, not Load and beyond ) etc.

But, man LL really did take some Ls in his career. There's no disputing that Radio is a hip-hop classic! and he did make a shift when he did I Need Love. He made some classic songs of Mama Said too... but for me. Radio & Mama Said are his only 2 great albums.

LL rode trends HARD! probably the first rapper to really do so. Y'all can say MC Hammer all you want but MC knew what he was and never really tried to hide it. LL was doing the poppy thing with I Need Love first. He started hard with Rock The Bells, Going Back To Cali and I'm Bad. Then went to Jinglin Baby, Big Ole butt, I'm That Type Of Guy, Around The Way Girl etc. Basically making song after song for chicks. That's cool and all... but every damn song?

Doin It is a guilty pleasure... but then in the 90's he chased everything. He jumped on New Jack Swing, then went on to jump on r&b with Boys II men on Hey Lover and Doin It. Then he jumped on the ''bling bling'' rap with the Puffy Producer ''Phenomenon'' horrible song and album Then he tried to be hard again with doing collabs ith Ruff Ryders. And the whole Cannibus beef... he was attempting to be more of a rough ryder in the late 00's. Then in the early 00's dude was doing pop songs with J-Lo, Ashanti, and Mya.

Lyrically i have to realize LL is not all there. he had some great and clever moments... but really i think people live off Radio & Mama said. Besides those two i find him to just be a trend jumper. With some very harsh results

[Edited 2/11/14 15:20pm]

LittleBLUECorvette said:

Pink cookies in a plastic bag being crushed by buildings is the greatest song title ever.

Funny title.. for a bad song. On a VERY bad album 14 shots to the dome is a mess.

Because he was from that "era" of DMC and Beastie he is gonna be viewed as SOFT. So i get that he did some stuff that you wouldnt expect, BUT tracks like "Ringtone Murder" which is about the likes of Lil Wayne and 50 Cent, is pure LL from coming up, but because RAP from that era no matter what is gonna be viewed as SOFT because they didnt gang bang, LL didnt do that shit, this is a guy who talked about his grandmother being his biggest influence, Rappers after that talked about how many times they got shot last month. So honestly if others can do things like disney movies and songs for penguins, and shit like that, LL can do what he wants, flow and lyrics he still is one of the best.

LL has taken some L's but he has enough songs that prove his genius as a rapper imho.

lastdecember said:

Because he was from that "era" of DMC and Beastie he is gonna be viewed as SOFT. So i get that he did some stuff that you wouldnt expect, BUT tracks like "Ringtone Murder" which is about the likes of Lil Wayne and 50 Cent, is pure LL from coming up, but because RAP from that era no matter what is gonna be viewed as SOFT because they didnt gang bang, LL didnt do that shit, this is a guy who talked about his grandmother being his biggest influence, Rappers after that talked about how many times they got shot last month. So honestly if others can do things like disney movies and songs for penguins, and shit like that, LL can do what he wants, flow and lyrics he still is one of the best.

Flow maybe... but lyrics? LL has not written a very deep that i can think of. Radio is mainly battle raps, dancing, good times, sucka MCS, and can't touch me on the mic rhymes. Mama Said is mainly love songs, Sucka MC battle raps, sex, killin people on the mic. And one song about the ''power of GOD'' jusy saying... i see him as average lyrically.

Gunsnhalen said:

lastdecember said:

Because he was from that "era" of DMC and Beastie he is gonna be viewed as SOFT. So i get that he did some stuff that you wouldnt expect, BUT tracks like "Ringtone Murder" which is about the likes of Lil Wayne and 50 Cent, is pure LL from coming up, but because RAP from that era no matter what is gonna be viewed as SOFT because they didnt gang bang, LL didnt do that shit, this is a guy who talked about his grandmother being his biggest influence, Rappers after that talked about how many times they got shot last month. So honestly if others can do things like disney movies and songs for penguins, and shit like that, LL can do what he wants, flow and lyrics he still is one of the best.

Flow maybe... but lyrics? LL has not written a very deep that i can think of. Radio is mainly battle raps, dancing, good times, sucka MCS, and can't touch me on the mic rhymes. Mama Said is mainly love songs, Sucka MC battle raps, sex, killin people on the mic. And one song about the ''power of GOD'' jusy saying... i see him as average lyrically.

Im talking more recent stuff which was dismissed because he is old now, Stuff like "Ringtone Murder" "old School New School" "dear Hip hop" which to me is his finest moment, and also "Take it" from his latest album plus "Whaddup" not saying he is Rakim, but he isnt a poor lyricist like a Flo-rida or Tpain or Lil Wayne.

Scorp said:

Sorry but....

''Cause I'm so bad, I can suck my own motherfuckin dick''

Sorry LL but that line is respect as hell.

The last time I paid LL any attention was the GOAT album(and the followup) which was lewd but good and very underrated. He won't go down as one of the greats but he's done

alright. I think Kool Moe Dee assing him out in the late 80's made LL a better person and better rapper.

LL a sellout???!!! Them is fightin' words!!!!

He's one of the few rappers who hasn't made a complete ass of himself and one of the few I have maintained respect for over the years. LL can do absolutely no wrong in my book.

Gunsnhalen said:

lastdecember said:

Because he was from that "era" of DMC and Beastie he is gonna be viewed as SOFT. So i get that he did some stuff that you wouldnt expect, BUT tracks like "Ringtone Murder" which is about the likes of Lil Wayne and 50 Cent, is pure LL from coming up, but because RAP from that era no matter what is gonna be viewed as SOFT because they didnt gang bang, LL didnt do that shit, this is a guy who talked about his grandmother being his biggest influence, Rappers after that talked about how many times they got shot last month. So honestly if others can do things like disney movies and songs for penguins, and shit like that, LL can do what he wants, flow and lyrics he still is one of the best.

Flow maybe... but lyrics? LL has not written a very deep that i can think of. Radio is mainly battle raps, dancing, good times, sucka MCS, and can't touch me on the mic rhymes. Mama Said is mainly love songs, Sucka MC battle raps, sex, killin people on the mic. And one song about the ''power of GOD'' jusy saying... i see him as average lyrically.

Yes, no deep lyrics about killing people and selling drugs. What a shame LL did not get all deep on us.

laurarichardson said:

Gunsnhalen said:

Flow maybe... but lyrics? LL has not written a very deep that i can think of. Radio is mainly battle raps, dancing, good times, sucka MCS, and can't touch me on the mic rhymes. Mama Said is mainly love songs, Sucka MC battle raps, sex, killin people on the mic. And one song about the ''power of GOD'' jusy saying... i see him as average lyrically.

Yes, no deep lyrics about killing people and selling drugs. What a shame LL did not get all deep on us.

You a fool

Good rappers have talked about social climates, heartbreak, home issues, surviving in life (That doesn't require guns or killings) Political bullshit, problems in the street, problems in the rap game, stories about their life, stories about school, their kids, their wives, mother and fathers and daughters lost.

Your putting some imaginary words in my mouth about the ''gangsta rap shit'' You seem to think the only other thing rappers talk about is drugs and killing people. I think you need to open up your mind chica.

LL WHOLE CATOLOG IS STRAIGHT BUTTER.

Gunsnhalen said:

Scorp said:

Sorry but....

yup.... the battle was over

I give LL props for even taking on a legendary lyricst like Moe Dee, alot of MCs wouldn't have IMO.

Yep. LL Cool J was a sellout. I saw him in concert recently and it was sold out!

Ladies Loves is the truff.

Don't be coming for Uncle L like that.

Gunsnhalen said:

I rarely use that word actually... many artists that people claim ''sold out'' i defend. Whether it's Prince, Stevie Wonder, Lenny Kravitz, Metallica (1991 Metallica, not Load and beyond ) etc.

But, man LL really did take some Ls in his career. There's no disputing that Radio is a hip-hop classic! and he did make a shift when he did I Need Love. He made some classic songs of Mama Said too... but for me. Radio & Mama Said are his only 2 great albums.

LL rode trends HARD! probably the first rapper to really do so. Y'all can say MC Hammer all you want but MC knew what he was and never really tried to hide it. LL was doing the poppy thing with I Need Love first. He started hard with Rock The Bells, Going Back To Cali and I'm Bad. Then went to Jinglin Baby, Big Ole butt, I'm That Type Of Guy, Around The Way Girl etc. Basically making song after song for chicks. That's cool and all... but every damn song?

Doin It is a guilty pleasure... but then in the 90's he chased everything. He jumped on New Jack Swing, then went on to jump on r&b with Boys II men on Hey Lover and Doin It. Then he jumped on the ''bling bling'' rap with the Puffy Producer ''Phenomenon'' horrible song and album Then he tried to be hard again with doing collabs ith Ruff Ryders. And the whole Cannibus beef... he was attempting to be more of a rough ryder in the late 00's. Then in the early 00's dude was doing pop songs with J-Lo, Ashanti, and Mya.

Lyrically i have to realize LL is not all there. he had some great and clever moments... but really i think people live off Radio & Mama said. Besides those two i find him to just be a trend jumper. With some very harsh results

[Edited 2/11/14 15:20pm]

What?!? You have no love for LL Cool J's Bigger And Deffer album? Shame on you.

How could you overlook THESE classics?:

[Edited 2/11/14 22:57pm]

TonyVanDam said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I rarely use that word actually... many artists that people claim ''sold out'' i defend. Whether it's Prince, Stevie Wonder, Lenny Kravitz, Metallica (1991 Metallica, not Load and beyond ) etc.

But, man LL really did take some Ls in his career. There's no disputing that Radio is a hip-hop classic! and he did make a shift when he did I Need Love. He made some classic songs of Mama Said too... but for me. Radio & Mama Said are his only 2 great albums.

LL rode trends HARD! probably the first rapper to really do so. Y'all can say MC Hammer all you want but MC knew what he was and never really tried to hide it. LL was doing the poppy thing with I Need Love first. He started hard with Rock The Bells, Going Back To Cali and I'm Bad. Then went to Jinglin Baby, Big Ole butt, I'm That Type Of Guy, Around The Way Girl etc. Basically making song after song for chicks. That's cool and all... but every damn song?

Doin It is a guilty pleasure... but then in the 90's he chased everything. He jumped on New Jack Swing, then went on to jump on r&b with Boys II men on Hey Lover and Doin It. Then he jumped on the ''bling bling'' rap with the Puffy Producer ''Phenomenon'' horrible song and album Then he tried to be hard again with doing collabs ith Ruff Ryders. And the whole Cannibus beef... he was attempting to be more of a rough ryder in the late 00's. Then in the early 00's dude was doing pop songs with J-Lo, Ashanti, and Mya.

Lyrically i have to realize LL is not all there. he had some great and clever moments... but really i think people live off Radio & Mama said. Besides those two i find him to just be a trend jumper. With some very harsh results

[Edited 2/11/14 15:20pm]

What?!? You have no love for LL Cool J's Bigger And Deffer album? Shame on you.

How could you overlook THESE classics?:

[Edited 2/11/14 22:57pm]

If you read the thing i mentioned i'm Bad in the good songs

LL was not as great as Beasties or DMC but he was one of the originals that introduced rap music to a generation. He was there.

You have to keep a perspective on how rap was in the 80s. There was no precedence for a rapper to do love songs like that, so he actually pioneered a risky style. "I Need Love" was probably the least welcomed single at the time. Even those 1989 singles you mentioned didn't help him.. Walking With A Panther flopped at the time! But that was his style.

Don't make him out to be a gimmicky cupid candyass when he had tracks like this:

I watched the Grammys and the Grammy Beatles salute with a 22 year old friend. I said "Hey they are really pushing LL on folks these days." He said "Yeah I mean he's on that show and all but what does he have to do with the Grammys?"

.

Dude couldn't even name an LL song. He's a crap "host" btw.

Gunsnhalen said:

Scorp said:

Sorry but....

. . . and LL lived happily ever after, comfortably placed as the prototype of the superstar MC.

His first 4 albums are classic. After that he did ride trends. But most artists have to change to keep up with changes in music. And that's a shame. If more artists stay true to form maybe some crap would fade out.

I love LL as a rapper and as a personality. He did eventually start following trends but he has a pretty good catalogue. His earlier records especially his first two are classics and very important to hip hop in my opinion. His hip hop was the same as Heavy D's. They had good dance/hip hop records. I always liked how he didn't pretend to be "hard" even when he started following trends.