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Thread started 01/23/13 1:14pm

neoretro7

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Does R&B/Soul music need to divorce itself from hip hop to still be relevant

R&B/Soul music is fractured and not like what it used to be. I long for the days in the 90's when there was Boyz II Men, Brian McKnight, R Kelly, Toni Braxton, Babyface, Mariah Carey etc. That was R&B in it's purest form and all these artists became very popular and released unforgetable music that immortalizes their artistry.

Today's R&B is very fractured where it has lost it's identity. I think that there is tendency that since all R&B and Hip Hop is predominately encompassed of all black artists then therefore they have to combine it.I think today's R&B arists feel compelled to always have hip hop elements in the music and it does not make it sound like soul.

The neo-soul movement was sucessful even though it contained a little bit of hip hop elements it still maintained it's identity.

In order for r&B to still have relevance should R&B music divorce itself from hip hop music and focus on going back to doing real music with real instruments.

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Reply #1 posted 01/23/13 1:30pm

gdiminished

neoretro7 said:

R&B/Soul music is fractured and not like what it used to be. I long for the days in the 90's when there was Boyz II Men, Brian McKnight, R Kelly, Toni Braxton, Babyface, Mariah Carey etc. That was R&B in it's purest form and all these artists became very popular and released unforgetable music that immortalizes their artistry.

Today's R&B is very fractured where it has lost it's identity. I think that there is tendency that since all R&B and Hip Hop is predominately encompassed of all black artists then therefore they have to combine it.I think today's R&B arists feel compelled to always have hip hop elements in the music and it does not make it sound like soul.

The neo-soul movement was sucessful even though it contained a little bit of hip hop elements it still maintained it's identity.

In order for r&B to still have relevance should R&B music divorce itself from hip hop music and focus on going back to doing real music with real instruments.

I agree with you, but I think that ship is sailed for the time being. Unless Hip Hoppers and Rappers all go bankrupt and no one buys their music, unfortunately R+B/Rap will be around for the forseeable future.

When R+B/Rap Ballads crossed-over to the mainstream in the mid-nineties, that is when classic R+B formatting took a dive and a solid R+B artist needed a whole bunch of guest appearences of rappers to add ignorant lyrics to otherwise beautiful songs to appeal to a larger audience. Studios took that formula to the bank and have been cashing in big bucks since then.

I mean we have grammy-winning John Legend, gifted pianist and writer, would have done pretty well in a different time period, working with Ludacris ? Throw Them Bo's, What's Your Fantasy, Area Codes Ludacris? Both genres are hurting and collabs like that are stunts to draw in more listeners and ultimately pathetic.

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Reply #2 posted 01/23/13 1:41pm

neoretro7

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gdiminished said:

neoretro7 said:

R&B/Soul music is fractured and not like what it used to be. I long for the days in the 90's when there was Boyz II Men, Brian McKnight, R Kelly, Toni Braxton, Babyface, Mariah Carey etc. That was R&B in it's purest form and all these artists became very popular and released unforgetable music that immortalizes their artistry.

Today's R&B is very fractured where it has lost it's identity. I think that there is tendency that since all R&B and Hip Hop is predominately encompassed of all black artists then therefore they have to combine it.I think today's R&B arists feel compelled to always have hip hop elements in the music and it does not make it sound like soul.

The neo-soul movement was sucessful even though it contained a little bit of hip hop elements it still maintained it's identity.

In order for r&B to still have relevance should R&B music divorce itself from hip hop music and focus on going back to doing real music with real instruments.

I agree with you, but I think that ship is sailed for the time being. Unless Hip Hoppers and Rappers all go bankrupt and no one buys their music, unfortunately R+B/Rap will be around for the forseeable future.

When R+B/Rap Ballads crossed-over to the mainstream in the mid-nineties, that is when classic R+B formatting took a dive and a solid R+B artist needed a whole bunch of guest appearences of rappers to add ignorant lyrics to otherwise beautiful songs to appeal to a larger audience. Studios took that formula to the bank and have been cashing in big bucks since then.

I mean we have grammy-winning John Legend, gifted pianist and writer, would have done pretty well in a different time period, working with Ludacris ? Throw Them Bo's, What's Your Fantasy, Area Codes Ludacris? Both genres are hurting and collabs like that are stunts to draw in more listeners and ultimately pathetic.

It is possible for real R&B to be brought back. There are R&B fans saying how hungry they are to hear real music once again.Unfortunately the popular R&B acts have not been doing that for a long time.

You are right that R&B ballads are ruined with rappers collaberation. Rapahel Saadiq's song Oh Girl remix with Jay-Z. I rolled my eyes.

John Legend was at his best with he debut album that was real R&B but his other albums never appealed to me after that.

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Reply #3 posted 01/23/13 1:42pm

SoulAlive

Yes! I have been saying this for years!! R&B needs to separate itself from the hip-hop movement.The two genres do not need to be combined.I am sick of R&B albums where every other song is a collaboration with a rapper.Mariah Carey acts like she can't make an album without a bunch of rappers all over it.
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Reply #4 posted 01/23/13 1:45pm

neoretro7

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SoulAlive said:

Yes! I have been saying this for years!! R&B needs to separate itself from the hip-hop movement.The two genres do not need to be combined.I am sick of R&B albums where every other song is a collaboration with a rapper.Mariah Carey acts like she can't make an album without a bunch of rappers all over it.

I think we have to blame the New Jack Swing movement which contribued in giving R&B music an identity crisis.

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Reply #5 posted 01/23/13 1:50pm

rialb

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neoretro7 said:

R&B/Soul music is fractured and not like what it used to be. I long for the days in the 90's when there was Boyz II Men, Brian McKnight, R Kelly, Toni Braxton, Babyface, Mariah Carey etc. That was R&B in it's purest form and all these artists became very popular and released unforgetable music that immortalizes their artistry.

Today's R&B is very fractured where it has lost it's identity. I think that there is tendency that since all R&B and Hip Hop is predominately encompassed of all black artists then therefore they have to combine it.I think today's R&B arists feel compelled to always have hip hop elements in the music and it does not make it sound like soul.

The neo-soul movement was sucessful even though it contained a little bit of hip hop elements it still maintained it's identity.

In order for r&B to still have relevance should R&B music divorce itself from hip hop music and focus on going back to doing real music with real instruments.

Some people, like me, would argue that nineties R & B was watered down and that "real" R & B in its purest form died out in the late seventies/early eighties. wink

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Reply #6 posted 01/23/13 1:51pm

SoulAlive

neoretro7 said:



SoulAlive said:


Yes! I have been saying this for years!! R&B needs to separate itself from the hip-hop movement.The two genres do not need to be combined.I am sick of R&B albums where every other song is a collaboration with a rapper.Mariah Carey acts like she can't make an album without a bunch of rappers all over it.



I think we have to blame the New Jack Swing movement which contribued in giving R&B music an identity crisis.



I agree.It was all downhill after 1987.That is when real R&B began to lose its identity.
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Reply #7 posted 01/23/13 2:04pm

MickyDolenz

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It doesn't matter whether they are separate or together. Most Top 40 radio is controlled by Clear Channel, and they make the playlists. Clear Channel is like McDonald's and Starbucks, everything is the same everywhere.

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #8 posted 01/23/13 2:05pm

neoretro7

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rialb said:

neoretro7 said:

R&B/Soul music is fractured and not like what it used to be. I long for the days in the 90's when there was Boyz II Men, Brian McKnight, R Kelly, Toni Braxton, Babyface, Mariah Carey etc. That was R&B in it's purest form and all these artists became very popular and released unforgetable music that immortalizes their artistry.

Today's R&B is very fractured where it has lost it's identity. I think that there is tendency that since all R&B and Hip Hop is predominately encompassed of all black artists then therefore they have to combine it.I think today's R&B arists feel compelled to always have hip hop elements in the music and it does not make it sound like soul.

The neo-soul movement was sucessful even though it contained a little bit of hip hop elements it still maintained it's identity.

In order for r&B to still have relevance should R&B music divorce itself from hip hop music and focus on going back to doing real music with real instruments.

Some people, like me, would argue that nineties R & B was watered down and that "real" R & B in its purest form died out in the late seventies/early eighties. wink

The nineties music was still good though because artists were actually singing.

Who can ever forget Luther Vandross who also dominated the 90's and raise the standards back to days of the 70's era R&B.

I think 90's the real and last solid era of real R&B acts it started to change with gansta rap reach full popularity in the late 90s'

These were the artists that were still keeping ir real and 9 times out of 10 everbody on this forum knows one song by them.

Brian McKnight, Jodeci, Boyz II Men, Shanice, Toni Braxton, Brandy, Whitney Houston, Tamia, Kelly Price, Des'ree, Dionne Faris, Lucy Pearl, Mariah Carey, R Kelly, Tyrese, Deborah Cox, Kci & Jojo, Vanessa Williams, Tony!Toni!Tone!

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Reply #9 posted 01/23/13 2:06pm

neoretro7

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SoulAlive said:

neoretro7 said:

I think we have to blame the New Jack Swing movement which contribued in giving R&B music an identity crisis.

I agree.It was all downhill after 1987.That is when real R&B began to lose its identity.

True and the artists who saved R&B in the late 80's was Luther Vandross and Whitney Houston despite her cross-over appeal. It kept people wanting to sing.

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Reply #10 posted 01/23/13 2:11pm

namepeace

neoretro7 said:

SoulAlive said:

neoretro7 said: I agree.It was all downhill after 1987.That is when real R&B began to lose its identity.

True and the artists who saved R&B in the late 80's was Luther Vandross and Whitney Houston despite her cross-over appeal. It kept people wanting to sing.

cue vainandy . . . in 5, 4, 3 . . .

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #11 posted 01/23/13 2:16pm

SoulAlive

lol
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Reply #12 posted 01/23/13 2:16pm

paisleypark4

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Saw what happened to Mariah with that Triumphant MESS

Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
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Reply #13 posted 01/23/13 2:19pm

rialb

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neoretro7 said:

rialb said:

Some people, like me, would argue that nineties R & B was watered down and that "real" R & B in its purest form died out in the late seventies/early eighties. wink

The nineties music was still good though because artists were actually singing.

Who can ever forget Luther Vandross who also dominated the 90's and raise the standards back to days of the 70's era R&B.

I think 90's the real and last solid era of real R&B acts it started to change with gansta rap reach full popularity in the late 90s'

These were the artists that were still keeping ir real and 9 times out of 10 everbody on this forum knows one song by them.

Brian McKnight, Jodeci, Boyz II Men, Shanice, Toni Braxton, Brandy, Whitney Houston, Tamia, Kelly Price, Des'ree, Dionne Faris, Lucy Pearl, Mariah Carey, R Kelly, Tyrese, Deborah Cox, Kci & Jojo, Vanessa Williams, Tony!Toni!Tone!

While I generally prefer "classic" R & B I do see your point. There was a time when singers just sang and they didn't need to feature a rapper. Then we got the "guest rapper" where they would get maybe thirty seconds to a minute of a song. Today rappers dominate and if you hear any singing it is probably the thirty second hook in a rap song.

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Reply #14 posted 01/23/13 2:21pm

namepeace

There's a difference between the genre as it exists, and the subgenre consumed by mass audiences. The subgenre is the tail that wags the dog.

But the genre itself is hanging on, artistically. There are at least a handful of artists who are not only keeping it alive and relevant but moving it in different directions. Bilal, Aloe Blacc, Van Hunt, Raphael Saadiq, Georgia Ann Muldrow . . . these are but a few examples. Adele dominates the industry with that sound.

They just aren't played on the radio because of consolidation and acculturation. The bulk of the young audiences were born in the eras of Straight Outta Compton, The Chronic, Ready to Die, All Eyez On Me, and Reasonable Doubt.

They can't remember an era when an MC didn't guest on a song or a singer didn't croon over a beat. Kanye West is their Stevie Wonder. To these generations, THIS IS R&B/SOUL MUSIC.

It may not be R&B/Soul that regains that ground, but the next "wave" of music.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #15 posted 01/23/13 2:24pm

neoretro7

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rialb said:

neoretro7 said:

The nineties music was still good though because artists were actually singing.

Who can ever forget Luther Vandross who also dominated the 90's and raise the standards back to days of the 70's era R&B.

I think 90's the real and last solid era of real R&B acts it started to change with gansta rap reach full popularity in the late 90s'

These were the artists that were still keeping ir real and 9 times out of 10 everbody on this forum knows one song by them.

Brian McKnight, Jodeci, Boyz II Men, Shanice, Toni Braxton, Brandy, Whitney Houston, Tamia, Kelly Price, Des'ree, Dionne Faris, Lucy Pearl, Mariah Carey, R Kelly, Tyrese, Deborah Cox, Kci & Jojo, Vanessa Williams, Tony!Toni!Tone!

While I generally prefer "classic" R & B I do see your point. There was a time when singers just sang and they didn't need to feature a rapper. Then we got the "guest rapper" where they would get maybe thirty seconds to a minute of a song. Today rappers dominate and if you hear any singing it is probably the thirty second hook in a rap song.

I think a lot of has to with the fact is that is easier to rap the song then deoing 20 edits or cuts while singing one song.

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Reply #16 posted 01/23/13 2:27pm

neoretro7

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namepeace said:

There's a difference between the genre as it exists, and the subgenre consumed by mass audiences. The subgenre is the tail that wags the dog.

But the genre itself is hanging on, artistically. There are at least a handful of artists who are not only keeping it alive and relevant but moving it in different directions. Bilal, Aloe Blacc, Van Hunt, Raphael Saadiq, Georgia Ann Muldrow . . . these are but a few examples. Adele dominates the industry with that sound.

They just aren't played on the radio because of consolidation and acculturation. The bulk of the young audiences were born in the eras of Straight Outta Compton, The Chronic, Ready to Die, All Eyez On Me, and Reasonable Doubt.

They can't remember an era when an MC didn't guest on a song or a singer didn't croon over a beat. Kanye West is their Stevie Wonder. To these generations, THIS IS R&B/SOUL MUSIC.

It may not be R&B/Soul that regains that ground, but the next "wave" of music.

Adele is playing the role of Whitney Houston they make that genre easy for people who don't listen to much R&B.

There has never been mutiple R&B artists who are popular in the mainstream with the exception of Motown.

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Reply #17 posted 01/23/13 2:38pm

namepeace

neoretro7 said:

namepeace said:

There's a difference between the genre as it exists, and the subgenre consumed by mass audiences. The subgenre is the tail that wags the dog.

But the genre itself is hanging on, artistically. There are at least a handful of artists who are not only keeping it alive and relevant but moving it in different directions. Bilal, Aloe Blacc, Van Hunt, Raphael Saadiq, Georgia Ann Muldrow . . . these are but a few examples. Adele dominates the industry with that sound.

They just aren't played on the radio because of consolidation and acculturation. The bulk of the young audiences were born in the eras of Straight Outta Compton, The Chronic, Ready to Die, All Eyez On Me, and Reasonable Doubt.

They can't remember an era when an MC didn't guest on a song or a singer didn't croon over a beat. Kanye West is their Stevie Wonder. To these generations, THIS IS R&B/SOUL MUSIC.

It may not be R&B/Soul that regains that ground, but the next "wave" of music.

Adele is playing the role of Whitney Houston they make that genre easy for people who don't listen to much R&B.

There has never been mutiple R&B artists who are popular in the mainstream with the exception of Motown.

I'm not so sure.

In the 70s, several R&B artists garnered multiple hits on the pop charts.

IIRC . . . EWF hit the top album/singles charts several times in the mid-to-late 70s. Stevie, well, he owned the first half of the 70s. The Isleys topped the pop charts during that time as well. So did Marvin.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #18 posted 01/23/13 2:42pm

neoretro7

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namepeace said:

neoretro7 said:

Adele is playing the role of Whitney Houston they make that genre easy for people who don't listen to much R&B.

There has never been mutiple R&B artists who are popular in the mainstream with the exception of Motown.

I'm not so sure.

In the 70s, several R&B artists garnered multiple hits on the pop charts.

IIRC . . . EWF hit the top album/singles charts several times in the mid-to-late 70s. Stevie, well, he owned the first half of the 70s. The Isleys topped the pop charts during that time as well. So did Marvin.

EWF were mainstream but weren't The Isleys popular within R&B audience ?

I would not count Marvin and Stevie because they were already established in the 60's by Motown.

I gues you can also count the Jackson 5.

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Reply #19 posted 01/23/13 2:48pm

vainandy

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neoretro7 said:

R&B/Soul music is fractured and not like what it used to be. I long for the days in the 90's when there was Boyz II Men, Brian McKnight, R Kelly, Toni Braxton, Babyface, Mariah Carey etc. That was R&B in it's purest form and all these artists became very popular and released unforgetable music that immortalizes their artistry.

Today's R&B is very fractured where it has lost it's identity. I think that there is tendency that since all R&B and Hip Hop is predominately encompassed of all black artists then therefore they have to combine it.I think today's R&B arists feel compelled to always have hip hop elements in the music and it does not make it sound like soul.

The neo-soul movement was sucessful even though it contained a little bit of hip hop elements it still maintained it's identity.

In order for r&B to still have relevance should R&B music divorce itself from hip hop music and focus on going back to doing real music with real instruments.

Oh Lord, you're longing for the days of adult contemporary. R&B needs to divorce itself from that too. lol

Andy is a four letter word.
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Reply #20 posted 01/23/13 2:53pm

SoulAlive

paisleypark4 said:

Saw what happened to Mariah with that Triumphant MESS




Mariah really annoys me.She is obsessed with blending R&B with hip-hop.
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Reply #21 posted 01/23/13 2:54pm

vainandy

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namepeace said:

neoretro7 said:

True and the artists who saved R&B in the late 80's was Luther Vandross and Whitney Houston despite her cross-over appeal. It kept people wanting to sing.

cue vainandy . . . in 5, 4, 3 . . .

...2....1

You got that right. lol

Saved R&B? Oh, hell naw! It killed off the rebellious side of R&B with all that dull ass family friendly shit and left the doors wide open for shit hop to come in and fill the void.

.

.

.

[Edited 1/23/13 14:56pm]

Andy is a four letter word.
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Reply #22 posted 01/23/13 3:12pm

uPtoWnNY

For me, the late 60s to the late 70s was the era of 'true' R&B.

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Reply #23 posted 01/23/13 3:12pm

namepeace

neoretro7 said:

namepeace said:

I'm not so sure.

In the 70s, several R&B artists garnered multiple hits on the pop charts.

IIRC . . . EWF hit the top album/singles charts several times in the mid-to-late 70s. Stevie, well, he owned the first half of the 70s. The Isleys topped the pop charts during that time as well. So did Marvin.

EWF were mainstream but weren't The Isleys popular within R&B audience ?

I would not count Marvin and Stevie because they were already established in the 60's by Motown.

I gues you can also count the Jackson 5.

I think the Isleys had several top 10 songs and albums on the primary US charts.

The reason I do count Marvin and Stevie is because their sounds changed radically in the 70's. They were different artists by that time.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #24 posted 01/23/13 3:14pm

MickyDolenz

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vainandy said:

You got that right. lol

Save R&B? Oh, hell naw. It killed off the rebellious side of R&B with all that dull ass family friendly shit and left the doors wide open for shit hop to come in and fill the void.

In a way that's true. The audience back then who bought the Adult Contemporary & slow jams like Freddie Jackson/Rene & Angela were usually older, and the ones who listened to rap, Latin Freestyle, New Jack Swing, and dance like Janet Jackson/Jody Watley/Lisa Lisa, were usually younger. So the R&B audience started to split. Since mainstream Top 40 R&B radio tends to focus on the younger audience, the younger music slowly took over. Then the older R&B was made into a separate format called "Urban Contemporary", a sub-category. The youth focused R&B became the main genre. The Urban Contemporary focused on the buppie audience and mostly played mid-tempo oldies like Maze and newer "neo-soul" acts. Because of this, some people think the Isley Brothers are only a "slow jam" group. lol Even Isley compilations tend to focus on the ballads.

For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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Reply #25 posted 01/23/13 6:32pm

TD3

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All ya'll here have serious R&B/Soul/Funk collections. I'd advise all to have a moment of silence get a "drank" and enjoy your collection of classic Soul. music

Cheers! martini

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Reply #26 posted 01/23/13 7:27pm

SoulAlive

TD3 said:

All ya'll here have serious R&B/Soul/Funk collections. I'd advise all to have a moment of silence get a "drank" and enjoy your collection of classic Soul. music



Cheers! martini






:lol:
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Reply #27 posted 01/24/13 2:50am

vainandy

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neoretro7 said:

namepeace said:

There's a difference between the genre as it exists, and the subgenre consumed by mass audiences. The subgenre is the tail that wags the dog.

But the genre itself is hanging on, artistically. There are at least a handful of artists who are not only keeping it alive and relevant but moving it in different directions. Bilal, Aloe Blacc, Van Hunt, Raphael Saadiq, Georgia Ann Muldrow . . . these are but a few examples. Adele dominates the industry with that sound.

They just aren't played on the radio because of consolidation and acculturation. The bulk of the young audiences were born in the eras of Straight Outta Compton, The Chronic, Ready to Die, All Eyez On Me, and Reasonable Doubt.

They can't remember an era when an MC didn't guest on a song or a singer didn't croon over a beat. Kanye West is their Stevie Wonder. To these generations, THIS IS R&B/SOUL MUSIC.

It may not be R&B/Soul that regains that ground, but the next "wave" of music.

Adele is playing the role of Whitney Houston they make that genre easy for people who don't listen to much R&B.

There has never been mutiple R&B artists who are popular in the mainstream with the exception of Motown.

You must be very young because the disco era of the 1970s had so many R&B artists on pop radio that they were practically taking over pop radio. And white people back then were much less "politically correct" back then and would say what was really on their mind back then rather than hide behind other reasons like they do these days in order to not appear racist. Back then, they were racist and proud of it.

When it came to disco, comments were made very openly that it was "jungle bunny music" and that's just some of the nicer comments. The others were much more brutal and much more racist with all the racial slurs included. And this extremely rhythmic music was the "blackest" thing they had ever heard on white pop radio unless they flipped over to black R&B radio and listened to some of the stuff that didn't cross over and it was infuriating them that it was quickly taking over the white pop stations. There had been the Motown era previously but it was a more tame era. Disco with it's pounding drums and rhythmic basslines was like straight up Africa in their eyes and all the "jungle" comments were thrown around. And here their white kids were listening to it in droves and it absolutely infuriated them. Then when they found out that the music had strong gay roots also, well, that was just the end of it then. It had to be killed off by any means necessary and the backlash began. Loads of white people were very hostile about the music and very vocal about it and they didn't bite their tongues either. They got plain out racist about it and didn't try to hide it either until years later when it became fashionable to be "politically correct".

After the backlash that began in 1979, if you listen to the funk of 1980 when black music became practically extinct on pop radio except for some of the tamer adult contemporary type black artists that still remained on pop radio, the funk of that year that had been recorded in mid to late 1979 during the backlash and in 1980 after the backlash, the funk of that year still had a very disco feel to it. Stuff like Mass Production "Firecracker", Lakeside "Rough Rider", The Isley Brothers "It's A Disco Night", The SOS Band "Take Your Time (Do It Right)", Lipps, Inc. "Power", etc. This stuff would have made it onto pop radio had the backlash not occurred but still remained on R&B after the backlash and even more similar type stuff was recorded years afterwards and became big hits on R&B radio. Pop radio distanced itself the furthest they could from all things "black" during that time. And if you notice decades later in the 1990s and 2000s, when a white person in their 40s starts talking about disco songs, many of them will name things that came out several years after disco's "death" such as The Dazz Band "Let It Whip", The Gap Band "Party Train", Midnight Star "Electricity", etc. Somehow they became exposed to these songs maybe at a party, or through a sample in a rap song, or other various reasons but these songs were not disco songs because disco's "death" was 1979. But the fact that these songs were uptempo, of a party nature, and by black artists, they just assume they were disco songs because they had no exposure to them on pop radio and they just assume that it must have been a disco song that they overlooked during the disco era when black music was all over the pop airwaves. And if you notice that most white people, even on threads on the org, had never even heard of Prince before "Little Red Corvette" in 1982, that just goes to show how segregated the radio was after disco's "death" because Prince had already been a huge star for years on R&B radio.

As for the little miss goodie two shoes that you think "saved" R&B, no, what she did was "whiten" it back and take out all those so called "jungle" elements that the white crowd considered so "black". She made nice little "safe" music that white people could listen to and not get the "nigger lover" label placed on them if they listened to it. Sorry to use such harsh words but that's just reality and Lord knows I had that label thrown on me for years and didn't give a damn if they liked me or not. Ironically, the shit hop era was the next era where black music took over white pop radio much moreso than disco could have ever dreamed to. But this time, it was completely different. It was much cheaper to make since it consisted of mainly song samples over a slow weak sounding beat. The images were a white racist's dream come true. A black man acting like a stupid, uneducated, ignorant criminal. Black on black crime and killing of each other. And while white kids were listening to it in droves, they still listened to it in the safety of their nice suburban homes away from the violent images that were glorified in the music. And unlike disco, which brought whites and blacks together, with shit hop, there's no threat of the white kids ever seeing the black people making this music as equals because the images they have show them are beneath white people. I mean, with disco, you simply had whites and blacks partying side by side on a dance floor. Eventually, some of the white people would suddenly take a look and say "Hey, these folks aren't the monsters that society has portrayed them to be for ages. They're just like I am except they're another color". But with shit hop, you have a black person not only acting as a criminal but being proud to be a criminal and flaunting it. No white person, black person, or any other person with good sense, is going to see someone like this as their equal. It just helps the racists to feel superior with these images...."See there, what did I tell you. They're all savages. Just look at them fighting and killing each other and then boasting about it.". Oh, and the homophobia in shit hop, well, that just kills two birds with one stone. "Keep them black folks in their place as criminals and bash those damn fags too". I'm telling ya, it's a Klansman's dream come true.

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[Edited 1/24/13 3:20am]

Andy is a four letter word.
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Reply #28 posted 01/24/13 3:26am

vainandy

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MickyDolenz said:

vainandy said:

You got that right. lol

Save R&B? Oh, hell naw. It killed off the rebellious side of R&B with all that dull ass family friendly shit and left the doors wide open for shit hop to come in and fill the void.

In a way that's true. The audience back then who bought the Adult Contemporary & slow jams like Freddie Jackson/Rene & Angela were usually older, and the ones who listened to rap, Latin Freestyle, New Jack Swing, and dance like Janet Jackson/Jody Watley/Lisa Lisa, were usually younger. So the R&B audience started to split. Since mainstream Top 40 R&B radio tends to focus on the younger audience, the younger music slowly took over. Then the older R&B was made into a separate format called "Urban Contemporary", a sub-category. The youth focused R&B became the main genre. The Urban Contemporary focused on the buppie audience and mostly played mid-tempo oldies like Maze and newer "neo-soul" acts. Because of this, some people think the Isley Brothers are only a "slow jam" group. lol Even Isley compilations tend to focus on the ballads.

Well call me Chicken Little because the sky is falling up in here. You finally said something right without going back to ancient times that haven't existed in any of our lifetimes or using obscure forms of music that none of us can relate to, to try to prove me wrong. lol

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[Edited 1/24/13 3:29am]

Andy is a four letter word.
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Reply #29 posted 01/24/13 3:34am

vainandy

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TD3 said:

All ya'll here have serious R&B/Soul/Funk collections. I'd advise all to have a moment of silence get a "drank" and enjoy your collection of classic Soul. music

Cheers! martini

Oh honey, I haven't listened to new music since the 1990s and even in the 1990s, it wasn't stuff that was on the radio. And I have no plans of listening to anything new, mainstream or obscure, for anytime soon unless a drastic change is made in the sound of music for the better. And for the better, I don't mean by more positive lyrics or lyrical content, or some saddity form of music that makes you look "elite" if you listen to it. I want downright, hardcore jams that sound nothing like the music of the last 20 years in terms of the instruments used to make the music. If they don't want to spend money to make music, then we shouldn't spend money to buy it. The best way to protest it is to not spend one dime on it and encourage others to do the same. And if you have friends or relatives that do like the new stuff, encourage them to download it for free. Break these motherfucking so-called "artists" these days and their record labels in the pocketbook. Download on people, download on! lol

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[Edited 1/24/13 3:43am]

Andy is a four letter word.
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