lowkey said:

greatest and biggest are 2 completely different things, is she the biggest female pop star of all time? absolutely. madonna's music had no impact on me,i liked a few of her songs but she wasnt my cup of tea, so no way would i consider her the greatest anything.

Michael Jackson's music did nothing for me but I can let that 'King Of Pop' title ride because he worked for it and all of his accolades pertaining to it. Madonna has worked equally hard and her music doesn't have to impact you personally for us to admit she is the closest thing to a "Michael Jackson" that the female pop music genre has/had/or is ever likely to get. Don't discredit what she has accomplished because you have issues with her or think her music sucks. She has impacted pop culture, fashion, music, film and countless fans lives. You can't take that from her. No pop female artist before her could've ever concieved of accomplishing the things Madonna has done because it's a mans world in the music industry.

Saying she's not the greatest pop star of all time is now "discrediting" Madonna? Some stans just go too far. Who gives a shit if she worked hard or not? She's not a talented singer or dancer and that's where it ends. Sure she got some awards and sold many records, I'm not denying that. There's a difference between "the greatest" and "the biggest", and that's really the main point.

HonestMan13 said:

Michael Jackson's music did nothing for me but I can let that 'King Of Pop' title ride because he worked for it and all of his accolades pertaining to it. Madonna has worked equally hard and her music doesn't have to impact you personally for us to admit she is the closest thing to a "Michael Jackson" that the female pop music genre has/had/or is ever likely to get. Don't discredit what she has accomplished because you have issues with her or think her music sucks. She has impacted pop culture, fashion, music, film and countless fans lives. You can't take that from her. No pop female artist before her could've ever concieved of accomplishing the things Madonna has done because it's a mans world in the music industry.

why would i call somebody the greatest if i dont even think they are great? i never discredited her, i said she is by far the biggest female pop star of all time, if you wanna call her the queen of pop thats fine, it still dont make her the greatest.she did not impact my community or culture, matter fact she uh 'borrowed' from it at different points of her career. i dont have any personal issues with madonna and i dont listen to her music to say it sucks, i liked her 1st album and a few of her other older songs. eminim is by far the biggest rapper of all time and mainstream will probably call him the greatest rapper of all time, but i know thats not true and imo madonna is not the greatest anything either.

lowkey said:

HonestMan13 said:

Michael Jackson's music did nothing for me but I can let that 'King Of Pop' title ride because he worked for it and all of his accolades pertaining to it. Madonna has worked equally hard and her music doesn't have to impact you personally for us to admit she is the closest thing to a "Michael Jackson" that the female pop music genre has/had/or is ever likely to get. Don't discredit what she has accomplished because you have issues with her or think her music sucks. She has impacted pop culture, fashion, music, film and countless fans lives. You can't take that from her. No pop female artist before her could've ever concieved of accomplishing the things Madonna has done because it's a mans world in the music industry.

why would i call somebody the greatest if i dont even think they are great? i never discredited her, i said she is by far the biggest female pop star of all time, if you wanna call her the queen of pop thats fine, it still dont make her the greatest.she did not impact my community or culture, matter fact she uh 'borrowed' from it at different points of her career. i dont have any personal issues with madonna and i dont listen to her music to say it sucks, i liked her 1st album and a few of her other older songs. eminim is by far the biggest rapper of all time and mainstream will probably call him the greatest rapper of all time, but i know thats not true and imo madonna is not the greatest anything either.

Actually Eminem is the greatest rapper when it comes to lyrical content. LL Cool J gets it for longevity. Eminem never had to dumb down his lyrics to the 'money, hoes & clothes' level to sell units like Jay Z did. LL Cool J has had a longer career in rap than anyone and kept racking up hits until he decided to stop. Madonna simply deserves respect for what she has done. Not saying you have to respect her but history does and most likely will.

Emancipation89 said:

Saying she's not the greatest pop star of all time is now "discrediting" Madonna? Some stans just go too far. Who gives a shit if she worked hard or not? She's not a talented singer or dancer and that's where it ends. Sure she got some awards and sold many records, I'm not denying that. There's a difference between "the greatest" and "the biggest", and that's really the main point.

I'm far from a stan but if she's not the greatest then who do you believe is?

lowkey said:

madonna being the greatest female is like elvis being the king of rock n roll, black people opinions dont really count so it is what it is.

No,let's not make it a racial thing Everyone pretty much agrees that Michael Jackson (a black man) is the King Of Pop.In terms of success,impact,and longevity,I'd say that Madonna is the closest we have seen to a female Michael Jackson.

HonestMan13 said:

Emancipation89 said:

Saying she's not the greatest pop star of all time is now "discrediting" Madonna? Some stans just go too far. Who gives a shit if she worked hard or not? She's not a talented singer or dancer and that's where it ends. Sure she got some awards and sold many records, I'm not denying that. There's a difference between "the greatest" and "the biggest", and that's really the main point.

I'm far from a stan but if she's not the greatest then who do you believe is?

that's the same question I asked earlier If not Madonna,then who?

Some have said Janet and Whitney,but I'd like to see them make a case for those ladies

HonestMan13 said:

Michael Jackson's music did nothing for me but I can let that 'King Of Pop' title ride because he worked for it and all of his accolades pertaining to it. Madonna has worked equally hard and her music doesn't have to impact you personally for us to admit she is the closest thing to a "Michael Jackson" that the female pop music genre has/had/or is ever likely to get. Don't discredit what she has accomplished because you have issues with her or think her music sucks. She has impacted pop culture, fashion, music, film and countless fans lives. You can't take that from her. No pop female artist before her could've ever concieved of accomplishing the things Madonna has done because it's a mans world in the music industry.

Michaels TALENT is unmatched and was never before ever seen and will never ever been seen again thats why HE is the King of Pop....... Madonna is NOT in that category Michaels impact and his King of Pop title is not JUST because of HIS MUSIC and it expands FAR greater in other areas even beyond what Madonna impacted although she has made a big impact herself which I am not knocking.

The issue alot of people have with Madonna is that we get that she has made a big impact on fashion, music, etc but her TALENT is very limited and it took alot of help from others to get her to where she is and that determination that she has.

Im not particularly a huge Madonna fan although I enjoy some songs but I can give props where its dued. HOWEVER, I am not going to sit here and say she can sing.... when she cant.... she can dance... we she cant... she can act... when she cant. Her being the greatest female pop star really has nothing to do with her talent and more so to do with marketing, fashion, creativity etc which has been iconic but not in the same way as her peers.

And thats okay but I have an issue when people try to categorize her with Michael, Prince and Whitney and no she doesnt have their special unmatched talents.

A

[Edited 8/14/12 11:00am]

[Edited 8/14/12 11:01am]

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[Edited 8/14/12 11:01am]

As much as I don't like her music. I don't think that there should be that much debate that Madonna is the G.O.A.T. female pop star. We aint talking about musician we're talking about pop star.

That kinda hurt me to type that up, but still.

HonestMan13 said:

Don't discredit what she has accomplished because you have issues with her or think her music sucks. She has impacted pop culture, fashion, music, film and countless fans lives. You can't take that from her. No pop female artist before her could've ever concieved of accomplishing the things Madonna has done because it's a mans world in the music industry.

Diana Ross.

Just saying. She could claim all the above. Time is a key factor in this. No way a young black woman in the 60's was running a record label. The best she could hope for was to manipulate the boss round her finger instead. Job done.

Still going reasonably strong too.

[Edited 8/14/12 12:26pm]

AsherFierce said:

As much as I don't like her music. I don't think that there should be that much debate that Madonna is the G.O.A.T. female pop star. We aint talking about musician we're talking about pop star.

That kinda hurt me to type that up, but still.

I think that's what people are getting up in arms about. Not many huge pop stars were great musicians or even that great at singing. Pop music wasn't meant to be deep or even long lasting it was/is a quick fix, if you will.

SoulAlive said:

lowkey said:

madonna being the greatest female is like elvis being the king of rock n roll, black people opinions dont really count so it is what it is.

No,let's not make it a racial thing Everyone pretty much agrees that Michael Jackson (a black man) is the King Of Pop.In terms of success,impact,and longevity,I'd say that Madonna is the closest we have seen to a female Michael Jackson.

the only thing madonna and mj had in common is their commercial success. mj has crossed racial,cultural and generational barriers like no other.there is no way you can avoid the race aspect, the fact that an artist who had basically no impact in the black community is considered the greatest of all time sounds absurd to someone like me. i can make the argument that whitney was the greatest female pop star, i can argue that janet had a much bigger impact culturally in my community then madonna.

lowkey said:

SoulAlive said:

No,let's not make it a racial thing Everyone pretty much agrees that Michael Jackson (a black man) is the King Of Pop.In terms of success,impact,and longevity,I'd say that Madonna is the closest we have seen to a female Michael Jackson.

the only thing madonna and mj had in common is their commercial success. mj has crossed racial,cultural and generational barriers like no other.there is no way you can avoid the race aspect, the fact that an artist who had basically no impact in the black community is considered the greatest of all time sounds absurd to someone like me. i can make the argument that whitney was the greatest female pop star, i can argue that janet had a much bigger impact culturally in my community then madonna.

Interesting and good point

HonestMan13 said:

AsherFierce said:

As much as I don't like her music. I don't think that there should be that much debate that Madonna is the G.O.A.T. female pop star. We aint talking about musician we're talking about pop star.

That kinda hurt me to type that up, but still.

I think that's what people are getting up in arms about. Not many huge pop stars were great musicians or even that great at singing. Pop music wasn't meant to be deep or even long lasting it was/is a quick fix, if you will.

But I think artists like Michael and even Prince made POP into an artform. I think currently POP has morphed into its original term but there are alot of great pop songs that are deep/classics and are not generic.

mjscarousal said:

HonestMan13 said:

I think that's what people are getting up in arms about. Not many huge pop stars were great musicians or even that great at singing. Pop music wasn't meant to be deep or even long lasting it was/is a quick fix, if you will.

But I think artists like Michael and even Prince made POP into an artform. I think currently POP has morphed into its original term but there are alot of great pop songs that are deep/classics and are not generic.

Some artists can make pop music into something special but you can count them on one hand. Also some of those who did accomplish that would hardly consider themselves a simple pop star. MJ embraced that title wholeheartedly and Prince did everything he could to get away from it.

AsherFierce said:

As much as I don't like her music. I don't think that there should be that much debate that Madonna is the G.O.A.T. female pop star. We aint talking about musician we're talking about pop star.

Very good point.

lowkey said:

SoulAlive said:

No,let's not make it a racial thing Everyone pretty much agrees that Michael Jackson (a black man) is the King Of Pop.In terms of success,impact,and longevity,I'd say that Madonna is the closest we have seen to a female Michael Jackson.

the only thing madonna and mj had in common is their commercial success. mj has crossed racial,cultural and generational barriers like no other.there is no way you can avoid the race aspect, the fact that an artist who had basically no impact in the black community is considered the greatest of all time sounds absurd to someone like me. i can make the argument that whitney was the greatest female pop star, i can argue that janet had a much bigger impact culturally in my community then madonna.

so in order to be the greatest female pop star of all time,you gotta have major impact in the black community? Remember,we're talking about pop music here...not R&B or hip-hop.Are you saying that only black artists can be considered the biggest and greatest of all time?

I agree that Michael has definitely crossed racial and cultural barriers like no other.He's the King of Pop,with no question.But I would argue that neither Janet or Whitney are the female equivalent of what Michael achieved (despite their many accomplishments).

Marrk said:

HonestMan13 said:

Don't discredit what she has accomplished because you have issues with her or think her music sucks. She has impacted pop culture, fashion, music, film and countless fans lives. You can't take that from her. No pop female artist before her could've ever concieved of accomplishing the things Madonna has done because it's a mans world in the music industry.

Diana Ross.

Just saying. She could claim all the above. Time is a key factor in this. No way a young black woman in the 60's was running a record label. The best she could hope for was to manipulate the boss round her finger instead. Job done.

Still going reasonably strong too.

an argument could definitely be made for Diana Ross

HonestMan13 said:

I'm far from a stan but if she's not the greatest then who do you believe is?

With these types of discussions,it's important that people separate their own personal thoughts/opinions from the bigger picture.For example,I don't own a single record by Elvis Presley but I would never discredit him or deny the impact that he made.He is truly the King of rock and roll.

SoulAlive said:

lowkey said:

the only thing madonna and mj had in common is their commercial success. mj has crossed racial,cultural and generational barriers like no other.there is no way you can avoid the race aspect, the fact that an artist who had basically no impact in the black community is considered the greatest of all time sounds absurd to someone like me. i can make the argument that whitney was the greatest female pop star, i can argue that janet had a much bigger impact culturally in my community then madonna.

so in order to be the greatest female pop star of all time,you gotta have major impact in the black community? Remember,we're talking about pop music here...not R&B or hip-hop.Are you saying that only black artists can be considered the biggest and greatest of all time?

I agree that Michael has definitely crossed racial and cultural barriers like no other.He's the King of Pop,with no question.But I would argue that neither Janet or Whitney are the female equivalent of what Michael achieved (despite their many accomplishments).

There not....

HonestMan13 said:

mjscarousal said:

But I think artists like Michael and even Prince made POP into an artform. I think currently POP has morphed into its original term but there are alot of great pop songs that are deep/classics and are not generic.

Some artists can make pop music into something special but you can count them on one hand. Also some of those who did accomplish that would hardly consider themselves a simple pop star. MJ embraced that title wholeheartedly and Prince did everything he could to get away from it.

But clearly after Michaels passing we see that for a mass majority he wasnt just a pop star... and technically he wasnt.. he was much more. I get the point your making though...

HonestMan13 said:

Actually Eminem is the greatest rapper when it comes to lyrical content. LL Cool J gets it for longevity. Eminem never had to dumb down his lyrics to the 'money, hoes & clothes' level to sell units like Jay Z did.

Are you being sarcastic or have you never listened to any Eminem albums?

HonestMan13 said:

Emancipation89 said:

Saying she's not the greatest pop star of all time is now "discrediting" Madonna? Some stans just go too far. Who gives a shit if she worked hard or not? She's not a talented singer or dancer and that's where it ends. Sure she got some awards and sold many records, I'm not denying that. There's a difference between "the greatest" and "the biggest", and that's really the main point.

I'm far from a stan but if she's not the greatest then who do you believe is?

I just don't think there's any. I just don't understand why certain people are so obsessed with naming someone "the greatest", when Madonna is not that greater than Janet, Mariah, Diana Ross, Cyndi Lauper, Whitney, etc. None of them are extraordinarily talented in many different ways to be called the greatest pop star imo. One sings better than the other, but the other one dances better than the rest, etc. etc. Madonna sold more records than those but that doesn't make her "greater" than them in any way, while I already accepted she is probably the biggest female artist among those.

Of course, the real problem is claiming the moniker of "the Greatest."

Most successful? Yes. Greatest? No.

Madonna is the Greatest Female Pop Star of All Time... not Janet, not Cher, not Lady Goosh Goosh!

Hands down Madonna slays all those BITCHES!!! Whitney has the greatest Voice, Mariah may have scored more #1 hit singles but overall as a POP MUSIC BRAND AND CULTURAL FIGURE "MADONNA" takes the cake and I'm Black... so My opinion does count.

This shouldn't be about RACE!

Blacks aren't that big of POP MUSIC FANS anyways, just ask Chris Brown and Rihanna... ain't nobody in the ghetto bumpin their music out the window on crenshaw! LMAO!