Timmy84 said:

DirtyChris said:

could you link me to some of your stuff?

I love new discoveries

it beats the crap on the radio right now

far as the dream, screw him

he never retweets me

and I give the mutha fucka props!

That Teddy Ruxpin lookin' mothafucka...

LMFAO @ you & Aisha's "d-cup" comment

Beyonce is soulful AND she can sing, she does make wack ass songs.

I think the dream is kinda right, but he also make that same wack ass pop songs.

Untill the 90s you still had listenable pop songs that had that soul and r&b influence.

Best example is MJ and Prince. Also other acts like SWV, TLC, Bobby Brown, Boyz 2 men and so on.

All black artist that were in the top of the charts, so you can say they were pop artist. But u could always hear the soul/r&b influence. But nowadays that Electro 90s Euro shit, im not feeling it.

Timmy84 said:

DirtyChris said:

could you link me to some of your stuff?

I love new discoveries

it beats the crap on the radio right now

far as the dream, screw him

he never retweets me

and I give the mutha fucka props!

That Teddy Ruxpin lookin' mothafucka...

smoothcriminal12 said:

I'm a musician. I make soul/R&B music. Bitch die.

you got some of your music online? very interested.

Terrib3Towel said:

^I agree except for Tina Turner. I think she has mad soul.

Agreed Tina has tons of soul a lot of her latest tours had soul classics and she

sang those songs with pure soul

shellyk84 said:

Terrib3Towel said:

^I agree except for Tina Turner. I think she has mad soul.

Agreed Tina has tons of soul a lot of her latest tours had soul classics and she

sang those songs with pure soul

Tina is definitely a soul legend.

DirtyChris said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

I'm a musician. I make soul/R&B music. Bitch die.

could you link me to some of your stuff?

I love new discoveries

I've got an album coming out soon. I'll tell you when.

SpookyElektrix said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

I'm a musician. I make soul/R&B music. Bitch die.

you got some of your music online? very interested.

See response to DirtyChris.

mjscarousal said:

musicjunky318 said:

But Love On Top IS Soul. (*Uber-stan argument*)

Technically not Soul.. its more r&b than soul and ONE song doesnt make an ENTIRE album soulful...

Soul is On and On, Getting Late, Butterflies... Love on Top still has a pop feel to the song but its R&B.

One song doesnt mean an artist IS soulful or makes an ENTIRE album soulful which Dream was implying...

[Edited 3/19/12 20:38pm]

I will say that one thing for certain is that Love On top is a direct rip off of the 1987 hit "LIES" by South African r&b/jazz singer-guitarist Jonathan Butler. I hope home boy got paid. But then, knowing how the Knowles' have been known to operate, that may be wishful thinking.

Can I hear it smooth?

Genius.

Ottensen said:

Duffy can't sing for shit, sounds like a chipmunk in heat.

D'Angelo is soulful, so is Chaka and a whole host of others.

Terrib3Towel said:

Ottensen said:

I will say that one thing for certain is that Love On top is a direct rip off of the 1987 hit "LIES" by South African r&b/jazz singer-guitarist Jonathan Butler. I hope home boy got paid. But then, knowing how the Knowles' have been known to operate, that may be wishful thinking.

bm Are you serious? I should have known she didn't come up with such a good song. Do you have a link?

Terrib3Towel said:

Ottensen said:

I will say that one thing for certain is that Love On top is a direct rip off of the 1987 hit "LIES" by South African r&b/jazz singer-guitarist Jonathan Butler. I hope home boy got paid. But then, knowing how the Knowles' have been known to operate, that may be wishful thinking.

bm Are you serious? I should have known she didn't come up with such a good song. Do you have a link?

Nope. It was a popular song back in my day and lord knows my mother wore that particular cd out, although these days I listen to Butler's jazz outings and religious music and have no idea where that cd is ( I eventually invested in my own copy ).

You can prolly find "Lies" on youtube though.

mjscarousal said:

This dude is DUMB AND IGNORANT

People got tired of all the bullshit.. THATS why Adele was successful and she makes good music. Beyonce has NEVER done soul music so I dont even know why he used her as an example... "4" was FAR from anything I would label as soulful.

And maybe if "black" artist would make more soulful records instead of pop hop club bullshit they might get more respect...

Oh there's plenty of black artists that sing r&b and soul, but they are not being promoted heavily in the industry. You have Ledisi, Leelah James, and more that can sing the kind of soul from back in the day, but the industry isn't interested in pushing their type of sound. Now what you have are artists like Beyonce, Rihanna, singing mainstream pop-sounding tracks that are soul-less and sometimes instrumentally overproduced.

scriptgirl said:

Duffy can't sing for shit, sounds like a chipmunk in heat.

D'Angelo is soulful, so is Chaka and a whole host of others.

I agree about D'Angelo. Yesterday I heard him on a radio station in the post office singing Smokey Robinson's 'Cruising' and his falsetto voice could have been mistaken for Prince, but yeah, D'Angelo is one of the few black male artists, that still has that soul thing going on..

The Dream, and our responses, shows four basic problems with this whole discussion.

1. If "soul" music doesn't get played on the radio, it does not exist. This whole line of discussion is based on a lazy premise. There are any number of artists out there making music in the "soul" or "rhythm and blues" traditions. They don't sell in the kinds of numbers that could get them on the radio, but they exist and are making music to fill that void. Saadiq, Ledisi, James, etc. We just don't look past the cable box or radio dial for them.

2. The definition of "soul music" needs expanding. Soul is "truth music." The more truthful and unfiltered the sound, the more soulful it is. This is why Adele is considered soulful and Beyonce, largely is not. And while a lot of artists are experimenting with new sounds, they're really expanding the soul tradition. Van Hunt, Bilal, Me'Shell, Aloe Blacc, Hawthorne, the list goes on.

3. The icons of modern soul are not nearly as prolific as their predecessors. There are a variety of reasons for this. True enough, an artist does not owe his/her audiences a certain amount of music. But some of the icons of the last 2 decades -- Maxwell, D'Angelo, Badu, Sade, Bilal, etc. -- take 3 years or more to between albums. Other stars in the making, like Lewis Taylor, dropped out altogether. Without bankable names making albums on a consistent basis, "soul" music is seen as endangered.

4. Older icons aren't being included much in the equation. Sharon Jones is making music. Chaka is making music. Al Green has made music. Others have. It's not being consumed.

[Edited 3/20/12 9:40am]

[Edited 3/20/12 13:31pm]

musicjunky318 said:

Soulful - Can Sing

Aretha Franklin

Gladys Knight

Amy Winehouse

Etta James

Duffy

Joss Stone

Non-Soulful - Can Sing

Barbra Streisand

Diana Ross

Beyonce

Carrie Underwood

Tina Turner

Celine Dion

...And that's the difference.

Tina Turner has plenty of soul.... one of the greatest singers to convey real emotion. While she didnt necessarily sing "soul' she was soulful...

namepeace said:

The Dream, and our responses, shows four basic problems with this whole discussion.

1. If "soul" music doesn't get played on the radio, it does not exist. This whole line of discussion is based on a lazy premise. There are any number of artists out there making music in the "soul" or "rhythm and blues" traditions. They don't sell in the kinds of numbers that could get them on the radio, but they exist and are making music to fill that void. Saadiq, Ledisi, James, etc. We just don't look past the cable box or radio dial for them.

2. The definition of "soul music" needs expanding. Soul is "truth music." The more truthful and unfiltered the sound, the more soulful it is. This is why Adele is considered soulful and Beyonce, largely is not. And while a lot of artists are experimenting with new sounds, they're really expanding the soul tradition. Van Hunt, Bilal, Me'Shell, Aloe Blacc, Hawthorne, the list goes on.

3. The icons of modern soul are not nearly as prolific as their predecessors. There are a variety of reasons for this. True enough, an artist does not owe his/her audiences a certain amount of music. But some of the icons of the last 2 decades -- Maxwell, D'Angelo, Badu, Sade, Bilal, etc. -- take 3 years or more to between albums. Other stars in the making, like Lewis Taylor, dropped out altogether. Without bankable names making albums on a consistent basis, "soul" music is seen as endangered.

4. Older icons aren't being included much in the equation. Sharon Jones is making music. Chaka is making music. Al Green has made music. Others have. It's not being consumed.

[Edited 3/20/12 9:40am]

[Edited 3/20/12 13:31pm]

There's really nothing else to say after this. Excellent commentary.

What I want to know is, why did artists such as Brandy and Usher and Kelly Rowland stop doing r&b and start doing pop/dance crap? Did Brandy suddenly stop loving r&b and start loving autotuned/synthy crap? I would be depressed if I was recording material in a genre that wasn't my true love.

The artists who truly love r&b are still doing it. Erykah, Jill, Maxwell, etc.

Terrib3Towel said:

Beyonce better pay up!.

for real, I knew when I didn't immediately switch the channel upon hearing her that something was up. I was listening to her, but hearing JB.

2elijah said:

mjscarousal said:

This dude is DUMB AND IGNORANT

People got tired of all the bullshit.. THATS why Adele was successful and she makes good music. Beyonce has NEVER done soul music so I dont even know why he used her as an example... "4" was FAR from anything I would label as soulful.

And maybe if "black" artist would make more soulful records instead of pop hop club bullshit they might get more respect...

Oh there's plenty of black artists that sing r&b and soul, but they are not being promoted heavily in the industry. You have Ledisi, Leelah James, and more that can sing the kind of soul from back in the day, but the industry isn't interested in pushing their type of sound. Now what you have are artists like Beyonce, Rihanna, singing mainstream pop-sounding tracks that are soul-less and sometimes instrumentally overproduced.

I KNOW

I was being sarcastic with that last statement.... Erykah, Ledsi etc make soul music...

jackson35 said:

the dream is not part of the the problem, the industry is the problem. this industry used to allow artist to put out what they think is soul music. now u have record exec walking into recording studios telling artist what is a hit or good music.

he's an exec at Def Jam now so he has a somewhat major role in this chaos lol

ABeautifulOne said:

jackson35 said:

the dream is not part of the the problem, the industry is the problem. this industry used to allow artist to put out what they think is soul music. now u have record exec walking into recording studios telling artist what is a hit or good music.

he's an exec at Def Jam now so he has a somewhat major role in this chaos lol

Somewhat?

Timmy84 said:

Well HE ain't contributing nothing to help out. Fuckers talk a good game but don't do shit. Fuck outta here with that bullshit.

And there's still soul music, just not on the radio. When are folks gonna learn that?

[img:$uid]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cf/How_you_sell_soul_cover.jpg[/img:$uid]

Think about it.

musicjunky318 said:

Soulful - Can Sing

Aretha Franklin

Gladys Knight

Amy Winehouse

Etta James

Duffy

Joss Stone

Non-Soulful - Can Sing

Barbra Streisand

Diana Ross

Beyonce

Carrie Underwood

Tina Turner

Celine Dion

...And that's the difference.

As a solo artist, except for some tracks on "Private Dancer", I would have to agree with you. But, go back and listen to a lot of the songs she recorded with Ike. Pure Soul!

Timmy84 said:

ABeautifulOne said:

he's an exec at Def Jam now so he has a somewhat major role in this chaos lol

Somewhat?

well I'm more than sure they won't leave him in charge of anything major so that's why I phrased it that way

Harlepolis said:

LOL @ "the blacks". I blame Donald Trump.

And the fuck he's talking about "They?" He contributed to the problem too, with his d cup having ass. Please.

For real! When did he EVER make a soul record?