Diana Ross is a bit like Joan Crawford at their respective companies....they made the money so others could make the art. Can you guys honestly see the great art coming from the likes of Stevie and Marvin w/o Diana helping blow Motown up into a huge money/press scene in the 60s and early 70s?

Diana is the biggest factor in Motown's commercial success during it's biggest years. Berry chose her because he knew that w/ her Motown could become what it did. No other artist of the early years could this be said of. Berry knew what he was doing.

[Edited 3/6/12 7:09am]

She's a bitch and a slut. I like her.

brooksie said:

Diana Ross is a bit like Joan Crawford at their respective companies....they made the money so others could make the art. Can you guys honestly see the great art coming from the likes of Stevie and Marvin w/o Diana helping blow Motown up into a huge money/press scene in the 60s and early 70s?

Diana is the biggest factor in Motown's commercial success during it's biggest years. Berry chose her because he knew that w/ her Motown could become what it did. No other artist of the early years could this be said of. Berry knew what he was doing.

[Edited 3/6/12 7:09am]

Nah I couldn't. Diana definitely spearheaded the direction Motown took. Sure Berry deserves credit but Diana worked hard to make sure that happened. She doesn't get her respect in that regard.

nursev said:

I was talking to a friend last night and we started talking about Diana and the Supremes-don't ask me why but that's were the conversation went. Anyway, I was telling her as a kid in Detroit folks would talk about how nasty Diana was to Florence and how Florence basically died broke which was a damn shame! I was telling my friend that I've noticed over the years that folks really don't talk about Diana or give her props like they do other aging musical stars and my friend said it's cuz she's been a bitch to so many people over her career What's ur opinion? Do you think Diana has burned alot of bridges?

It was all Berry Gordy's fault anyway. He wanted to put his girlfriend front and center. Diana may have been a bitch but she learned it from boss bitch berry.

I got caught up in Supremes' vs Diana Ross & the Supremes', basically forming an opinion because the common sentiment then was and still is, Ms. Ross did Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard wrong. From the very day Diana Ross & The Supremes came to be, "call me Ms. Ross" has been seen as a bitch and a lot of folks can't let it go.

I now know things aren't usually that cut and dry.

Everyone at Motown knew Ross didn't want to be a star but THE STAR. Sister girl wasn't about to share the limelight, the adulation, or profits with anyone. The Supremes' were a stepping stone, on towards better and much bigger things. She was ambitious and sometimes ambition or the pursuit of it isn't all that pretty; I'm certain she stepped on some toes, feelings, and egos. Funny thing, everyone in the Temptations wanted to be "THE STAR" too, but I don't recall anyone tripping when David Ruffin wanted the same thing and wasn't to polite in demanding it.

Ms. Ross has never bothered to tell her side of the story --the only person we've heard from is Ms. Wilson-- boy have we heard from this chick. In a nutshell is about a singer that broke away from the goup and did well while the other two floundered. If the Supremes could've survived post Ross or if those ladies could have had a career like Ms. Ross, most of this would be a known issue. It didn't turn out that way....

Besides being a "bitch" or a narcissus, wow that's sooo rare in showbiz.

-----------------------------------------------

[Edited 3/6/12 16:10pm]

TD3 said:

I got caught up in Supremes' vs Diana Ross & the Supremes', basically forming an opinion because the common sentiment then was and still is, Ms. Ross did Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard wrong. From the very day Diana Ross & The Supremes came to be, "call me Ms. Ross" has been seen as a bitch and a lot of folks can't let it go.

I now know things aren't usually that cut and dry.

Everyone at Motown knew Ross didn't want to be a star but THE STAR. Sister girl wasn't about to share the limelight, the adulation, or profits with anyone. The Supremes' were a stepping stone, on towards better and much bigger things. She was ambitious and sometimes ambition or the pursuit of it isn't all that pretty; I'm certain she stepped on some toes, feelings, and egos. Funny thing, everyone in the Temtations wanting to be "THE STAR" too, but I don't recall anyone tripping when David Ruffin wanted the same thing and wasn't to polite in demanding it.

Ms. Ross has never bothered to tell her side of the story --the only person we've heard from is Ms. Wilson-- boy have we heard from this chick. In a nutshell is about a singer that broke away from the goup and did well while the other two floundered. If the Supremes could've survived post Ross or if those ladies could have had a career like Ms. Ross, most of this would be a known issue. It didn't turn out that way....

Besides being a "bitch" or a narcissus, wow that's sooo rare in showbiz.

Sounds just like Destiny's Child.

Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard squandered their own careers by still staying naive. Diana was just as naive until she began to get right about her business after leaving Motown. Everything the Supremes thought they had earned was actually leased by Berry Gordy. Meaning the homes were bought by Berry but Flo and Mary didn't quite pay taxes so Mary put hers for sale once she moved to Los Angeles and Las Vegas. She did "Dreamgirl: My Life as a Supreme" for money. Flo at the time of her death was getting over her alcohol and prescription pill addictions and getting back at her career and was also writing her own memoirs at the time of her death.

vainandy said:

She's a bitch and a slut. I like her.

!!!!

When I was growing up, everybody just loooooved Diana! It was always "Diana Ross this" and "Diana Ross that". But, after "Eaten Alive", the emergence of Nippy and Mary's book, which I believe all surfaced the same year, the public just wasn't interested in her any more. She did a couple of incredible albums in the mid to late nineties, but, by then, the massess had turned their backs on her. But, she had a great run. Not many people can say they were as popular as she was for 2.5 decades!

Timmy84 said:

Diana ain't burned no bridges. People don't respect someone who was just out there making that money. Flo's failure was not due to Diana. Flo had some shady ass motherfuckers that took her money and didn't help her to get out of her addiction or at least helped her LIFE.

I'm looking at you MARY WILSON.

Berry Gordy didn't help matters any by having Diana being THE only lead vocals of The Surpremes.

TonyVanDam said:

Timmy84 said:

Diana ain't burned no bridges. People don't respect someone who was just out there making that money. Flo's failure was not due to Diana. Flo had some shady ass motherfuckers that took her money and didn't help her to get out of her addiction or at least helped her LIFE.

I'm looking at you MARY WILSON.

Berry Gordy didn't help matters any by having Diana being THE only lead vocals of The Surpremes.

Yeah Berry screwed up the formula there lol I guess he didn't want another "Marvelettes" since they were basically having each member do a lead vocal...

SoulAlive said:

alphastreet said:

If that's the case, I wonder what that kid from Indiana saw in her then

A second mother figure OR something else?!?

whitesockedfunk said:

RnBAmbassador said:

She slept her way to the top, first with Berry Gordy and then with lots of Caucasian men.

I beg to differ... Diana did not become romantically involved with Berry Gordy until after the Supremes had already had several number one hits. The "caucasian men" that Diana was married to and/or had affairs with (Gene Simmons, Ryan O'Neil...) did not help her get to the top.

And the Ms Ross thing- I don't see why wanting to be treated with respect by your employees or strangers is such a bad thing.

I'm more convince Berry & Diana were secretly involved a lot sooner than that.

[Edited 3/6/12 18:40pm]

vainandy said:

She's a bitch and a slut. I like her.

I don't know about the "slut" part. But Diana Ross was definitely F***ing For Tracks when it comes to Berry Gordy.

I dare anyone to convince me otherwise!

TonyVanDam said:

SoulAlive said:

A second mother figure OR something else?!?

Probably som'n else

MJ knew his mother

TonyVanDam said:

SoulAlive said:

A second mother figure OR something else?!?

Michael wanted that pussy...

missfee said:

Diana is definitely driven and ambitious, knew what she wanted and went after it without letting anyone get in her way. I can respect that. But I also think that she's just an "ok" singer and overrated. At the same time, I can't sit up here and say that she hasn't earn her right to be respected as a legend. Sure I like a few of her songs, but she's not one of my favorite artists. As far as her being a "bitch" goes, well can't say for sure if she is or isn't because I haven't met her personally, however, anytime a woman goes after what she wants to get ahead, she's ALWAYS going to be labeled as being a "bitch" regardless.

[Edited 3/6/12 5:17am]

Exactly, and people will say she slept her way to the top.

Men are respected when they are succesfull, women are bitches when they are. Double standard.

robertlove said:

missfee said:

Diana is definitely driven and ambitious, knew what she wanted and went after it without letting anyone get in her way. I can respect that. But I also think that she's just an "ok" singer and overrated. At the same time, I can't sit up here and say that she hasn't earn her right to be respected as a legend. Sure I like a few of her songs, but she's not one of my favorite artists. As far as her being a "bitch" goes, well can't say for sure if she is or isn't because I haven't met her personally, however, anytime a woman goes after what she wants to get ahead, she's ALWAYS going to be labeled as being a "bitch" regardless.

[Edited 3/6/12 5:17am]

Exactly, and people will say she slept her way to the top.

Men are respected when they are succesfull, women are bitches when they are. Double standard.

I'll give you an example: if Marvin Gaye or James Brown or anyone like that did what Diana did, they'd be looked on as shrewd businessmen. Diana Ross or Aretha Franklin does it, they're Beezlebubs.

brooksie said:

Diana Ross is a bit like Joan Crawford at their respective companies....

That's a really good comparison.

missfee said:

Diana is definitely driven and ambitious, knew what she wanted and went after it without letting anyone get in her way. I can respect that. But I also think that she's just an "ok" singer and overrated. At the same time, I can't sit up here and say that she hasn't earn her right to be respected as a legend. Sure I like a few of her songs, but she's not one of my favorite artists. As far as her being a "bitch" goes, well can't say for sure if she is or isn't because I haven't met her personally, however, anytime a woman goes after what she wants to get ahead, she's ALWAYS going to be labeled as being a "bitch" regardless.

Reminds me of a quote from Madonna in the mid-80s...

I'm tough,I'm ambitious,and I know exactly what I want.If that makes me a bitch,okay

I adore her every move.

I also agree that I think her image of a diva has been greatly exaggerated. Either that, or she must've changed over the years because I find her personality to be rather charming, thoughtful, and even humorous at times. I cannot say the same of another Detroit diva, Aretha, whose ego is just as enormous as it always seems to have been. I heard a recent interview of the singer Brandy recalling her experience of working with Diana on that TV movie, "Double Platinum" in the 90s. She said that Ross was very warm & motherly and she even initially insisted to be called Diana. The other Supremes that joined her for that failed "Return to Love" tour said she was nothing but gracious & supportive of them. At least those ones liked her.

[Edited 3/7/12 7:01am]

Timmy84 said:

TonyVanDam said:

A second mother figure OR something else?!?

Michael wanted that pussy...

He definitely did, he was always determined to make her the mother of kids. Even in death.

Timmy84 said:

robertlove said:

Exactly, and people will say she slept her way to the top.

Men are respected when they are succesfull, women are bitches when they are. Double standard.

I'll give you an example: if Marvin Gaye or James Brown or anyone like that did what Diana did, they'd be looked on as shrewd businessmen. Diana Ross or Aretha Franklin does it, they're Beezlebubs.

Madonna: she's a cold bitch

Diana Ross: oh, she slept with caucasian men to have a carreer.

Beyonce: that cold bitch dumped all of her groupmembers just for the fame

Prince: look at all the hot women he dated, he's amazing!

TD3 said:

I got caught up in Supremes' vs Diana Ross & the Supremes', basically forming an opinion because the common sentiment then was and still is, Ms. Ross did Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard wrong. From the very day Diana Ross & The Supremes came to be, "call me Ms. Ross" has been seen as a bitch and a lot of folks can't let it go.

I now know things aren't usually that cut and dry.

Everyone at Motown knew Ross didn't want to be a star but THE STAR. Sister girl wasn't about to share the limelight, the adulation, or profits with anyone. The Supremes' were a stepping stone, on towards better and much bigger things. She was ambitious and sometimes ambition or the pursuit of it isn't all that pretty; I'm certain she stepped on some toes, feelings, and egos. Funny thing, everyone in the Temptations wanted to be "THE STAR" too, but I don't recall anyone tripping when David Ruffin wanted the same thing and wasn't to polite in demanding it.

Ms. Ross has never bothered to tell her side of the story --the only person we've heard from is Ms. Wilson-- boy have we heard from this chick. In a nutshell is about a singer that broke away from the goup and did well while the other two floundered. If the Supremes could've survived post Ross or if those ladies could have had a career like Ms. Ross, most of this would be a known issue. It didn't turn out that way....

Besides being a "bitch" or a narcissus, wow that's sooo rare in showbiz.

-----------------------------------------------

[Edited 3/6/12 16:10pm]

in a nutshell, this post in general and specifically what i bolded is on point.

i may be biased, but i met diana as a child at the airport on our way to michigan and she could not have been more gracious.

TonyVanDam said:

vainandy said:

She's a bitch and a slut. I like her.

I don't know about the "slut" part. But Diana Ross was definitely F***ing For Tracks when it comes to Berry Gordy.

I dare anyone to convince me otherwise!

Fucking for Tracks or Fucking for Orgasms? I doesn't really matter, cuz if Mary or Flo had fucked for them same tracks they woulda gone no Fucking-where.

According to some Berry was putting his girlfriend front and center because of the relationship alone. According to some of those same people, and many others, he was a shrewd bastard who knew how to make some big money in the record business. Talk about having your cake and eating it too people. Berry was stacking some cash, and he knew that Diana's lovely, distinctive, voice would produce hits on them tracks she may or may not have been fucking for.

robertlove said:

Timmy84 said:

I'll give you an example: if Marvin Gaye or James Brown or anyone like that did what Diana did, they'd be looked on as shrewd businessmen. Diana Ross or Aretha Franklin does it, they're Beezlebubs.

Madonna: she's a cold bitch

Diana Ross: oh, she slept with caucasian men to have a carreer.

Beyonce: that cold bitch dumped all of her groupmembers just for the fame

Prince: look at all the hot women he dated, he's amazing!

There you go.

robertlove said:

Timmy84 said:

I'll give you an example: if Marvin Gaye or James Brown or anyone like that did what Diana did, they'd be looked on as shrewd businessmen. Diana Ross or Aretha Franklin does it, they're Beezlebubs.

Madonna: she's a cold bitch

Diana Ross: oh, she slept with caucasian men to have a carreer.

Beyonce: that cold bitch dumped all of her groupmembers just for the fame

Prince: look at all the hot women he dated, he's amazing!

Don't let Prince off the hook that easily. Some of them negros are bitches too! Ice-T & Bushwick Bill said so.

vainandy said:

She's a bitch and a slut. I like her.

The greatest black entertainer and popular icon of all time.

Obviously it's impossible to know since the majority of us don't know her, but did any of you read the Guardian's recent excerpt of Gil Scott-Heron's memoir? The excerpt is about him and Stevie Wonder working to get the MLK holiday passed, and at one point he talks about a boy who won an essay contest on the holiday and had trouble reading the essay to the crowd at a rally because it was mimeographed really poorly:

After I introduced him, I walked backstage again. He started to read again, and I heard him coming to the point where he had faltered, the part on the page that was damn near invisible. He started to falter again, and I listened for some wiseass to say something. But then it started to go smoothly, and I looked over and there was Diana Ross standing next to him with her arm around his shoulder. Without being in the way, without making it her essay, she helped him over those rough spots. My man's confidence got a lift and the crowd started to appreciate what he had written. I stood there thinking: there must be 30 or 40 adults up here on this stage, and she's the only one of us who thought to go up there and help the brother!

I think she probably treated people according to how they could handle being treated. It seems like she was probably extremely kind and gentle with kids, but could be more ruthless with people in the music industry because A) They could handle it and B) that's the only way you get ahead in that industry, anyhow. I do think Flo was screwed over, but that wasn't Diana's doing.