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Reply #30 posted 11/01/11 1:07pm

Timmy84

HotGritz said:

I hear y'all about Marvyn but damn, might as well throw Teddy and Luther into the mix. All of those dudes could easity qualify and their musical legacy lives on even though their careers and lives were cut short.

Teddy didn't have a chance to really stake his claim though he was real close - no other R&B artist had five consecutive platinum albums like he did (but then again, Marvin's and Stevie's albums were never certified by Motown so that's not real fair), maybe if that accident hadn't occurred he would be a "king". Luther was definitely the king of '80s and early '90s R&B.

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Reply #31 posted 11/01/11 1:07pm

mjscarousal

Timmy84 said:

alphastreet said:

Exactly, I was going to name him, but he really does transcend genres. I put on Maybe Your Baby after such a long time today, and calling it just r&b IS limiting.

I may get flamed for this, but I categorize Stevie more as a pop/rock artist, then R&B. True R&B is in his blood and his voice was reared in gospel, but his 1970s, early 1980s output was more across the board. It wasn't just R&B or funk, it had strong pop and rock elements that was not missed. That's why he was refer to as a "top rock artist" then. When it came to R&B, Marvin and Smokey had him beat in that department...and I'm being for real. I'm not dissing Stevie's impact on R&B, just saying.

I agree

Which is why no one said he was the King of R&B wink

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Reply #32 posted 11/01/11 1:08pm

alphastreet

Timmy84 said:

alphastreet said:

Exactly, I was going to name him, but he really does transcend genres. I put on Maybe Your Baby after such a long time today, and calling it just r&b IS limiting.

I may get flamed for this, but I categorize Stevie more as a pop/rock artist, then R&B. True R&B is in his blood and his voice was reared in gospel, but his 1970s, early 1980s output was more across the board. It wasn't just R&B or funk, it had strong pop and rock elements that was not missed. That's why he was refer to as a "top rock artist" then. When it came to R&B, Marvin and Smokey had him beat in that department...and I'm being for real. I'm not dissing Stevie's impact on R&B, just saying.

I'm not flaming you in anyway lol I totally agree with you and that's how I heard him too since I was young.

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Reply #33 posted 11/01/11 1:08pm

Timmy84

mjscarousal said:

Timmy84 said:

I may get flamed for this, but I categorize Stevie more as a pop/rock artist, then R&B. True R&B is in his blood and his voice was reared in gospel, but his 1970s, early 1980s output was more across the board. It wasn't just R&B or funk, it had strong pop and rock elements that was not missed. That's why he was refer to as a "top rock artist" then. When it came to R&B, Marvin and Smokey had him beat in that department...and I'm being for real. I'm not dissing Stevie's impact on R&B, just saying.

I agree

Which is why no one said he was the King of R&B wink

He was called the king of pop in the '70s lol

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Reply #34 posted 11/01/11 1:08pm

alphastreet

Timmy84 said:

mjscarousal said:

I agree

Which is why no one said he was the King of R&B wink

He was called the king of pop in the '70s lol

HE WAS???!! or are you kidding?

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Reply #35 posted 11/01/11 1:13pm

HotGritz

avatar

Timmy84 said:

alphastreet said:

Exactly, I was going to name him, but he really does transcend genres. I put on Maybe Your Baby after such a long time today, and calling it just r&b IS limiting.

I may get flamed for this, but I categorize Stevie more as a pop/rock artist, then R&B. True R&B is in his blood and his voice was reared in gospel, but his 1970s, early 1980s output was more across the board. It wasn't just R&B or funk, it had strong pop and rock elements that was not missed. That's why he was refer to as a "top rock artist" then. When it came to R&B, Marvin and Smokey had him beat in that department...and I'm being for real. I'm not dissing Stevie's impact on R&B, just saying.

I started to say the same thing but didn't want to get hit with the Stevie fan which is the same weight as a ton of bricks. lol Stevie's most popular songs were more of a pop/rock feel than R&B.

Pop/Rock sounding (just to name a few)

Higher Ground

I Just Called To Say I love You

Isn't She Lovely

Part-Time Lover

For Your Love

All I Do

For Once In My Life

Fingertips

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
RIP Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Don Cornelius, Heavy D, and Donna Summer. rose
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Reply #36 posted 11/01/11 1:16pm

Timmy84

alphastreet said:

Timmy84 said:

He was called the king of pop in the '70s lol

HE WAS???!! or are you kidding?

Nah not kidding. I was watching something about the 1970s on TV and he was mentioned as a "king of pop".

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Reply #37 posted 11/01/11 1:17pm

Timmy84

HotGritz said:

Timmy84 said:

I may get flamed for this, but I categorize Stevie more as a pop/rock artist, then R&B. True R&B is in his blood and his voice was reared in gospel, but his 1970s, early 1980s output was more across the board. It wasn't just R&B or funk, it had strong pop and rock elements that was not missed. That's why he was refer to as a "top rock artist" then. When it came to R&B, Marvin and Smokey had him beat in that department...and I'm being for real. I'm not dissing Stevie's impact on R&B, just saying.

I started to say the same thing but didn't want to get hit with the Stevie fan which is the same weight as a ton of bricks. lol Stevie's most popular songs were more of a pop/rock feel than R&B.

Pop/Rock sounding (just to name a few)

Higher Ground

I Just Called To Say I love You

Isn't She Lovely

Part-Time Lover

For Your Love

All I Do

For Once In My Life

Fingertips

nod

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Reply #38 posted 11/01/11 1:19pm

mjscarousal

Timmy84 said:

mjscarousal said:

I agree

Which is why no one said he was the King of R&B wink

He was called the king of pop in the '70s lol

I wouldnt categorize Stevie as the King of R&B because that was not where most of his forte lied. However, he did do r&b as well as a number of other genres. Just because he isnt the king of it doesnt mean he didnt experiment with it.

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Reply #39 posted 11/01/11 1:25pm

alphastreet

I think king of pop is a limiting title for stevie, I'm not saying this just cause it's a title given to michael. Titles aren't important anyways.

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Reply #40 posted 11/01/11 1:28pm

Timmy84

Anyways, I think Louis Jordan was the original king of R&B. It's tricky to speculate who followed him but James would definitely have followed Louis...

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Reply #41 posted 11/01/11 1:32pm

hendrikus

Tittypants said:

Marvin Gaye.

yeahthat

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Reply #42 posted 11/01/11 1:33pm

rialb

avatar

kitbradley said:

rialb said:

James Brown

He already has a title, "The Godfather Of Soul".

Sure but why limit him to a single title? He's also known as Mr. Please Please Please, Mr. Dynamite, Soul Brother Number One, The Hardest Working Man in Show Business and The Minister of the New New Super Heavy Funk. He earned those titles by working his ass off which is also why I think he is the real king of R & B.

James only briefly crossed over to the pop charts in a big way in 1965-1966 with "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag," "I Got You (I Feel Good)" and "It's a Man's Man's Man's World," otherwise he mostly stuck to R & B music. He did not chase the pop charts like most of his contemporaries did.

Some people are mentioning Ray Charles and Sam Cooke but much of their music was more pop oriented than R & B. True, Ray was doing R & B before James but by the '60s he had largely abandoned it. Sam was more gospel/pop until shortly before he was killed. I think a strong argument can be made that James music was more pure R & B than Ray and Sam. Also, as much as people loved Ray by the mid '60s his new music was largely ignored. James remained a vital recording artist for longer than Ray did.

James Brown is the one true king of R & B!

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Reply #43 posted 11/01/11 1:34pm

Timmy84

rialb said:

kitbradley said:

He already has a title, "The Godfather Of Soul".

Sure but why limit him to a single title? He's also known as Mr. Please Please Please, Mr. Dynamite, Soul Brother Number One, The Hardest Working Man in Show Business and The Minister of the New New Super Heavy Funk. He earned those titles by working his ass off which is also why I think he is the real king of R & B.

James only briefly crossed over to the pop charts in a big way in 1965-1966 with "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag," "I Got You (I Feel Good)" and "It's a Man's Man's Man's World," otherwise he mostly stuck to R & B music. He did not chase the pop charts like most of his contemporaries did.

Some people are mentioning Ray Charles and Sam Cooke but much of their music was more pop oriented than R & B. True, Ray was doing R & B before James but by the '60s he had largely abandoned it. Sam was more gospel/pop until shortly before he was killed. I think a strong argument can be made that James music was more pure R & B than Ray and Sam. Also, as much as people loved Ray by the mid '60s his new music was largely ignored. James remained a vital recording artist for longer than Ray did.

James Brown is the one true king of R & B!

Good points. biggrin

That's why I don't know if Sam and Ray really qualify as "kings of R&B" since they definitely did more crossover stuff especially Ray with his country and jazz records.

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Reply #44 posted 11/01/11 1:43pm

rialb

avatar

Timmy84 said:

rialb said:

Sure but why limit him to a single title? He's also known as Mr. Please Please Please, Mr. Dynamite, Soul Brother Number One, The Hardest Working Man in Show Business and The Minister of the New New Super Heavy Funk. He earned those titles by working his ass off which is also why I think he is the real king of R & B.

James only briefly crossed over to the pop charts in a big way in 1965-1966 with "Papa's Got a Brand New Bag," "I Got You (I Feel Good)" and "It's a Man's Man's Man's World," otherwise he mostly stuck to R & B music. He did not chase the pop charts like most of his contemporaries did.

Some people are mentioning Ray Charles and Sam Cooke but much of their music was more pop oriented than R & B. True, Ray was doing R & B before James but by the '60s he had largely abandoned it. Sam was more gospel/pop until shortly before he was killed. I think a strong argument can be made that James music was more pure R & B than Ray and Sam. Also, as much as people loved Ray by the mid '60s his new music was largely ignored. James remained a vital recording artist for longer than Ray did.

James Brown is the one true king of R & B!

Good points. biggrin

That's why I don't know if Sam and Ray really qualify as "kings of R&B" since they definitely did more crossover stuff especially Ray with his country and jazz records.

I'm slightly exaggerating as James did do stuff like "World" and recorded some attempts at rock in the late '60s, I guess he did try to have pop hits but he just wasn't very good at it! Plus he did do a couple of jazz flavoured albums. I just love him so much that I will fight anyone that disagrees that he is the king!

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Reply #45 posted 11/01/11 1:44pm

Timmy84

rialb said:

Timmy84 said:

Good points. biggrin

That's why I don't know if Sam and Ray really qualify as "kings of R&B" since they definitely did more crossover stuff especially Ray with his country and jazz records.

I'm slightly exaggerating as James did do stuff like "World" and recorded some attempts at rock in the late '60s, I guess he did try to have pop hits but he just wasn't very good at it! Plus he did do a couple of jazz flavoured albums. I just love him so much that I will fight anyone that disagrees that he is the king!

lol I feel ya. smile

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Reply #46 posted 11/01/11 2:32pm

NDRU

avatar

rialb said:

Some people are mentioning Ray Charles and Sam Cooke but much of their music was more pop oriented than R & B. True, Ray was doing R & B before James but by the '60s he had largely abandoned it. Sam was more gospel/pop until shortly before he was killed. I think a strong argument can be made that James music was more pure R & B than Ray and Sam. Also, as much as people loved Ray by the mid '60s his new music was largely ignored. James remained a vital recording artist for longer than Ray did.


I don't really think that stuff matters, it matters who pioneers it. That is why they [mistakenly] call Elvis the king, because of the [false] notion that he was the pioneer despite only doing a few years of actual rock and roll before moving onto bad movie showtunes. Ray was one of the great pioneers of R&B. James Brown was too, but he is more soul IMO, where Ray embodies Rhythm & Blues in the true sense of the origins of that genre.

[Edited 11/1/11 14:33pm]

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Reply #47 posted 11/01/11 2:42pm

silverchild

avatar

No one really. I personally dislike honorific titles and such, but there are so many true Kings of R&B that are both popular in some sense or constantly overlooked.

Marvin Gaye

Otis Redding

Solomon Burke

Gene Chandler

Jackie Wilson

Wilson Pickett

[Edited 11/1/11 14:43pm]

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Reply #48 posted 11/01/11 2:47pm

Timmy84

silverchild said:

No one really. I personally dislike honorific titles and such, but there are so many true Kings of R&B that are both popular in some sense or constantly overlooked.

Marvin Gaye

Otis Redding

Solomon Burke

Gene Chandler

Jackie Wilson

Wilson Pickett

[Edited 11/1/11 14:43pm]

Nice list. I agree. I forgot about Wilson Pickett. He definitely qualifies! nod

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Reply #49 posted 11/01/11 2:47pm

musicjunky318

avatar

Is R&B the same thing as Soul?

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Reply #50 posted 11/01/11 2:48pm

Timmy84

musicjunky318 said:

Is R&B the same thing as Soul?

Technically? No. It's considered a "sub-genre" actually...

[Edited 11/1/11 14:48pm]

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Reply #51 posted 11/01/11 2:50pm

Identity

This guy is the reigning King of R & B.

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Reply #52 posted 11/01/11 2:54pm

rialb

avatar

Timmy84 said:

silverchild said:

No one really. I personally dislike honorific titles and such, but there are so many true Kings of R&B that are both popular in some sense or constantly overlooked.

Marvin Gaye

Otis Redding

Solomon Burke

Gene Chandler

Jackie Wilson

Wilson Pickett

[Edited 11/1/11 14:43pm]

Nice list. I agree. I forgot about Wilson Pickett. He definitely qualifies! nod

Yes, Wilson was a giant who is sadly forgotten today. It is too bad that his career kind of tanked when he left Atlantic in the early '70s. The recent box set of his Atlantic recordings is fantastic. For years all I had was the early '90s double disc set (A Man and a Half) and I thought that was all the Wilson that I needed. How wrong I was!

Jerry Butler is a name that springs to mind as fitting in on the above list.

Of the people listed Gene Chandler is the only one that I am mostly ignorant of. He has definitely not been well served by reissues of his music. I occasionally look for a decent entry point into his music but so far I have come up empty. Would anyone care to recommend a compilation of his music?

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Reply #53 posted 11/01/11 2:56pm

Timmy84

rialb said:

Timmy84 said:

Nice list. I agree. I forgot about Wilson Pickett. He definitely qualifies! nod

Yes, Wilson was a giant who is sadly forgotten today. It is too bad that his career kind of tanked when he left Atlantic in the early '70s. The recent box set of his Atlantic recordings is fantastic. For years all I had was the early '90s double disc set (A Man and a Half) and I thought that was all the Wilson that I needed. How wrong I was!

Jerry Butler is a name that springs to mind as fitting in on the above list.

Of the people listed Gene Chandler is the only one that I am mostly ignorant of. He has definitely not been well served by reissues of his music. I occasionally look for a decent entry point into his music but so far I have come up empty. Would anyone care to recommend a compilation of his music?

OrgNote LittleBLUECorvette if he logs on today, he's a big fan of Gene.

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Reply #54 posted 11/01/11 3:01pm

musicjunky318

avatar

Timmy84 said:

musicjunky318 said:

Is R&B the same thing as Soul?

Technically? No. It's considered a "sub-genre" actually...

[Edited 11/1/11 14:48pm]

Then I would give it to James Brown. Why can't his material cover the field? I think that's the reason there is no Queen of R&B accepted by the mass public either. Why bother when Aretha is out in front?

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Reply #55 posted 11/01/11 3:03pm

Timmy84

musicjunky318 said:

Timmy84 said:

Technically? No. It's considered a "sub-genre" actually...

[Edited 11/1/11 14:48pm]

Then I would give it to James Brown. Why can't his material cover the field? I think that's the reason there is no Queen of R&B accepted by the mass public either. Why bother when Aretha is out in front?

Actually there was: Dinah Washington, then Aretha got her title. They just changed it to "soul" because soul had its golden period around the time Aretha released "Respect".

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Reply #56 posted 11/01/11 3:06pm

musicjunky318

avatar

Timmy84 said:

musicjunky318 said:

Then I would give it to James Brown. Why can't his material cover the field? I think that's the reason there is no Queen of R&B accepted by the mass public either. Why bother when Aretha is out in front?

Actually there was: Dinah Washington, then Aretha got her title. They just changed it to "soul" because soul had its golden period around the time Aretha released "Respect".

I thought it was Queen of the Blues.

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Reply #57 posted 11/01/11 3:08pm

Timmy84

musicjunky318 said:

Timmy84 said:

Actually there was: Dinah Washington, then Aretha got her title. They just changed it to "soul" because soul had its golden period around the time Aretha released "Respect".

I thought it was Queen of the Blues.

It was. I actually meant to say Ruth Brown lol

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Reply #58 posted 11/01/11 3:21pm

Emancipation89

Meh I don't know and I don't care...All I know is JB is the NEW King of Pop biggrin

HotGritz said:

I'm curious.

If Aretha is the Queen of Soul and

MJ is the King of Pop and

James Brown is/was the Hardest Working Man in Show Business and

T.IP is the King of the South and

Prince is the Prince of Pop/Rock

Then who the hell is the King of R&B? confuse

Since when Prince was the "Prince" of pop and rock?!!! razz His Royal Badness or His Purple Majesty fits him a lot better. I mean, especially if you're gonna call Madonna the "queen of pop" mad , Prince certainly cannot be the Prince of pop if u know what I mean wink

LiLi1992 said:


80-90% of people in the world know that there is the King of Rock and Roll (Elvis), the King of Pop (Michael), the Queen of Pop (Madonna), the Queen of soul music (Aretha), the Princess of pop music (Britney).

of what, 7 billion ppl? Let's not be delusional here razz

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Reply #59 posted 11/01/11 3:36pm

Timmy84

Emancipation89 said:

Meh I don't know and I don't care...All I know is JB is the NEW King of Pop biggrin

lol

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