On his career?

On his sales?

On the way people view his career?

Mj did NOT blow up, until Thriller and the video era.

Thoughts?

Visuals are part of the legacy, sure. But lets not act they were the end all, be all. There was also substance and good listening experience to fall back on, otherwise his music wouldn't resonate with so many people. Otherwise, they would be treated with a "here today, gone tomorrow" attitude.

I don't even know why videos are still an issue after all these decades, they're only means to deliver "music" and if the music is "good", mission accomplished, and accomplished he sure as stone hell did.

[Edited 4/4/11 13:12pm]

Harlepolis said:

Visuals are part of the legacy, sure. But lets not act they were the end all, be all. There was also substance and good listening experience to fall back on, otherwise his music wouldn't resonate with so many people. Otherwise, they would be treated with a "here today, gone tomorrow" attitude.

I don't even know why videos are still an issue after all these decades, they're only means to deliver "music" and if the music is "good", mission accomplished, and accomplished he sure as stone hell did.

[Edited 4/4/11 13:12pm]

I'm curious 2 see what people think.

We were fans of Off the Wall as kids. Plus I was aware of him from the Wiz. I was only about 8 or so, and did not know The jacksons. But I knew Michael Jackson. So I imagine Thriller would have been a pretty big hit even without videos.

I remember hearing The Girl is Mine on the radio, and I was a Paul McCartney fan, (I thought he was singing with Barbra Streisand at first ) So the music was out there by itself.

Of course his performance of Billie Jean on the Motown 25 show plus the videos seemed to have us in awe, where the music was just something we liked.

[Edited 4/4/11 13:42pm]

What do you mean what impact Michael had musically?

Are you serious?

Take away the videos, he still have the talent. Isn't it curious why Mike never released a Human nature music video? Heck, half his stuff for Thriller became hits. He doesn't need to rely on music videos to sell albums. Also, have you forgotten the J5? He means a lot to my parents' generation. I grew up with his music as a child. Keep in mind that I never even knew what he looked like as a baby but I can still jam to his songs.

The music video did play a part in making him 'blow up' as you say. No one was doing something as amazing at the time so of course he would have gotten more exposure. But no mistake I can still jam to Billie Jean even without any visuals.

This type of question should be asked regarding Brtiney Spears and not Michael Jackson.

He was already a legend before MTV.

Who are we talking about?

Huh? Michael did blow up before Thriller. Off the Wall was huge.

Off the Wall sold 5 million copies by 1982. Prior to that, not a single album by a best-selling R&B artist sold that much, the biggest was Stevie's Songs in the Key of Life and when Thriller was released, the best-selling album of all time had sold 14 million (Saturday Night Fever). Think about it for a minute...

[Edited 4/5/11 7:59am]

Didn't "The Girl Is Mine" hit number 1 without a video?

HuMpThAnG said:

Didn't "The Girl Is Mine" hit number 1 without a video?

#2 pop and #1 R&B but yeah it was a hit without a video. Michael only did THREE videos from his SEVEN singles and all seven were top ten lol

Timmy84 said:

HuMpThAnG said:

Didn't "The Girl Is Mine" hit number 1 without a video?

#2 pop and #1 R&B but yeah it was a hit without a video. Michael only did THREE videos from his SEVEN singles and all seven were top ten lol

yeah, that was the first release right?

HuMpThAnG said:

Timmy84 said:

#2 pop and #1 R&B but yeah it was a hit without a video. Michael only did THREE videos from his SEVEN singles and all seven were top ten lol

yeah, that was the first release right?

Yep.

HuMpThAnG said:

Timmy84 said:

#2 pop and #1 R&B but yeah it was a hit without a video. Michael only did THREE videos from his SEVEN singles and all seven were top ten lol

yeah, that was the first release right?

Yes

It's interesting to note that 'Thriller' had a whopping seven (!) singles,but there were only three videos from that album.I wonder why he didn't make videos for "Wanna Be Startin Something","PYT" and the other singles.

Of course,the album was selling extremely well at that point...maybe he didn't need videos for those songs?

SoulAlive said:

It's interesting to note that 'Thriller' had a whopping seven (!) singles,but there were only three videos from that album.I wonder why he didn't make videos for "Wanna Be Startin Something","PYT" and the other singles.

Of course,the album was selling extremely well at that point...maybe he didn't need videos for those songs?

Bingo.

I'm not entirely sure why they didn't lead off with a video for The Girl Is Mine, but really PYT and Wanna Be didn't really need videos as the videos released for the album never lost their own momentum.

There's a video for Human Nature, Thriller, Beat It, and Billie Jean.

Graycap23 said:

Mj did NOT blow up, until Thriller and the video era.

Thoughts?

Neither did Prince, Until Purple Rain in the same era.

Same with a lot of acts at the time. Madonna, Springsteen. MTV worked back then. Now? nobody really cares about videos anymore. They just don't impact like they did.

as for MJ specifically, Off The Wall was outside the MTV era and was the biggest seling album by a black male at that point, so it's not like he hadn't 'blown up' by then. As he said himself in 'Moonwalk', back then The Jacksons were up against Earth Wind & Fire as the biggest black act going. So i wouldn't say he was exactly struggling for recognition.

in B4 the

Spinlight said:

There's a video for Human Nature

There actually isn't.

For years people wondered if that short animated part in "Moonwalker" was a clip from an unreleased full length video to the song. But it was confirmed at one stage, that that clip was just made for the montage and there is no longer version.

Marrk said:

Graycap23 said:

Mj did NOT blow up, until Thriller and the video era.

Thoughts?

Neither did Prince, Until Purple Rain in the same era.

Same with a lot of acts at the time. Madonna, Springsteen. MTV worked back then. Now? nobody really cares about videos anymore. They just don't impact like they did.

as for MJ specifically, Off The Wall was outside the MTV era and was the biggest seling album by a black male at that point, so it's not like he hadn't 'blown up' by then. As he said himself in 'Moonwalk', back then The Jacksons were up against Earth Wind & Fire as the biggest black act going. So i wouldn't say he was exactly struggling for recognition.

in B4 the

And besides MTV was in DANGER of being canceled until Michael.

Like anything else that Blows up, it simmers down and then just loses its relevance in the big picture. MTV now is relevant if you are a Snooki fan, but the music video age, really hasnt been since the later 80's to be honest i would even say when MTV was sold was pretty much the end of what its purpose was. They started as an art form to be played in clubs behind things, example Duran Duran making these mini movies and 12" dance mixes, or MJ making his own little films, there was a certain kind of art but also the performance in a video made it work. Alot of acts were already big when MTV started and those artists just started making videos, people like MJ or Prince and others like Hall and Oates, Pat Benatar etc...all these artists were huge but then also made videos.

Videos were just the "new" thing, they werent needed to have a hit, after mtv kicked into gear if you werent already established U HAD TO DO a video it was the new exposure, it was very very rare if you had never been seen before to just put something out without a video back then.

Timmy84 said:

Marrk said:

Neither did Prince, Until Purple Rain in the same era.

Same with a lot of acts at the time. Madonna, Springsteen. MTV worked back then. Now? nobody really cares about videos anymore. They just don't impact like they did.

as for MJ specifically, Off The Wall was outside the MTV era and was the biggest seling album by a black male at that point, so it's not like he hadn't 'blown up' by then. As he said himself in 'Moonwalk', back then The Jacksons were up against Earth Wind & Fire as the biggest black act going. So i wouldn't say he was exactly struggling for recognition.

in B4 the

And besides MTV was in DANGER of being canceled until Michael.

Until Motown25 and 'Thriller', so was the record industry.

Like others have already said, Michael was already huge before Thriller. Matter of fact, the industry didn't think he was going to top Off The Wall's success.

He along with Lionel and Prince had a huge influence on how black artists were presented and promoted. Whitney Houston, in a way, is a direct result of how Michael was presented and promoted with Thriller

In other ways...

Michael helped popularized bboyin/breakdancing in the mainstream. People like The Electric Boogaloos, Rock Steady Crew, and The Lockers introduced many to the different styles, but Michael incorporating popping and locking into his dancing brought a bigger introduction

His vocal style (which was influenced by people like James Brown, Grace Jones, and Stevie) the production he, Quincy, and Rod brought influenced singers here in the states, the UK and Japan. Artists and producers like Craig David, Ne-Yo, The Neptunes, Teddy Riley, Bryan Loren, New Edition, Usher, Robin Thicke, Nathan and others

Marrk said:

Timmy84 said:

And besides MTV was in DANGER of being canceled until Michael.

Until Motown25 and 'Thriller', so was the record industry.

True too.

Spinlight said:

Huh? Michael did blow up before Thriller. Off the Wall was huge.

Off The Wall was the best selling album of all time by a black artist until Thriller outsold it

Off The Wall had 4 Top 10 singles, 2 going to #1. The album itself debuted at #48 and peaked at #3 25 weeks later on the Billboard 200 but it spent 16 weeks at #1 on the R&B chart

Another thing is Off The Wall got better reviews than Thriller initially did

That anti-MJ mod Luv4u must be asleep.

"Hee-Hee!"

It certainly helped in a big way. But MJ was already huge. Imo, Thriller would've been an entirely different album if the main focus was on how the music would come across through music videos/short films. The goal from the jump was to make the best album they could possibly make, and everything else was priority #2. It was genius of him, during and after that huge explosion to put a cap on the videos, interviews, and public appearances at a certain point, to avoid over-exposure and still keep people interested in him, and most importantly, his MUSIC.

Harlepolis said:

Visuals are part of the legacy, sure. But lets not act they were the end all, be all. There was also substance and good listening experience to fall back on, otherwise his music wouldn't resonate with so many people. Otherwise, they would be treated with a "here today, gone tomorrow" attitude.

I don't even know why videos are still an issue after all these decades, they're only means to deliver "music" and if the music is "good", mission accomplished, and accomplished he sure as stone hell did.

[Edited 4/4/11 13:12pm]

I agree. What Michael accomplished with music videos and MTV is surely part of his legacy but I don't think the main reason why he's adored and admired by millions is because of his thrilling music videos...That's just part of his legacy. I don't care how 'commercially' successful he was before Thriller...I'm sure everyone knows how successful Jackson 5 was and Off the Wall album was.

I love his videos and dancing and those are the first things I knew about when it came to MJ when I was a toddler in the 80's. And though those were always there during the times I was aware of certain works, I could not call myself a michael jackson fan until I heard his MUSICAL catalogue more and more from the mid 90's and onwards, and that's when I really really fell in love with him. I love the emotions in the voice and how much fire, spark and passion it had and versatility. I love how it could get me to dance or cry or feel or think, or even write or pray. It gave me natural energy. I didn't realize he did different styles of music until I was listening to the albums and adapting himself to each one and not everyone I listened to at the time to my knowledge did that.

[Edited 4/4/11 16:25pm]

Graycap23 said:

On his career?

On his sales?

On the way people view his career?

Mj did NOT blow up, until Thriller and the video era.

Thoughts?

Gray, you KNOW I luv ya like a play-cousin but you gotta stop the PWI, (posting while intoxicated),

J/K

Anyhoo, MJ has been a superstar since he was a child, but if you are referring to his solo career, he enjoyed plenty of success pre mtv...Off The Wall being the most notable example, (truth be told, many of us prefer it to Thriller).

I get that Mike ain't exactly your cup of tea but his voice is actually beautiful and he was one hell of an entertainer. So to answer your question, take away the videos and I think he still would have been hugely popular sales/careerwise. Before and after mtv, his music still has nearly universal appeal.

As someone already suggested, the mtv era was just another marketing tool that many, many established artists took advantage of at the time and true to form, Mike did the music video thing to max effect. In fact, I could argue that MJ actually did more for the mtv model than it did for him because many of his videos took the craft to another level.

I was a huge J5 fan back in the day and a casual fan of his solo career but still, I must give credit where it is due.

are you serious? - He gave MTV legs to stand on by and validating the music video platform!

NEXT!