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Reply #90 posted 03/17/10 8:30pm

Timmy84

cborgman said:

daPrettyman said:


U know what the deal was. Angela didn't play Hollywood's game like Halle did. Halle played the game well. She got what she wanted (an Oscar and notoriety) and she has pretty much been done with Hollywood. I think all she has now are her endorsements.

I think it also had to do with mass appeal. Angela is a damn-good actress, but her appeal is limited. Halle, on the other hand, has a MASS appeal that crosses racial, social, and ethnic lines.


i also think halle was focused on being a star, which she is.

angela was focused on being a damn good actress, which she is.

it's like comparing cameron diaz to meryl streep.
[Edited 3/17/10 20:27pm]


Pretty much. lol
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Reply #91 posted 03/17/10 8:31pm

phunkdaddy

avatar

Timmy84 said:

sleepyq said:


confuse

Kate Winslet was butt naked in about 90% of the time she was onscreen, ridin a 16 YO dick for "The Reader." Kate had been nominated 5 TIMES prior. Wouldnt the logic work more for Kate Winslet? Halle hadn't even been nominated before, so WTF do u mean by "finally" as if it was a long time comin?

So did she Kate have to hump 16 yo dick to do that because she was black, too? Since its all about bein BLACK, right? lol


I never got the big deal about Halle. Angela Bassett surely had more talent lol


punany power
Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint
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Reply #92 posted 03/17/10 8:31pm

TonyVanDam

cborgman said:

TonyVanDam said:



1. Isn't it a damn shame that Halle has to bend over and take it (acting-wise) to FINALLY win an Oscar of Best Actress?

THIS^ was the exact message that was being sent to some viewers with some knowledge of symbolism.
disbelief

2. There nothing wrong in seeing a black female character on film getting save by a black male character. Hell, white female characters (Jane/Lois Lane) gets saved by white male characters (Tarzan/Superman) all the time within Hollywood history.


1. finally?

maybe i am forgetting something, but i don't remember halle being that great in anything prior to monster's ball. introducing dorthy dandrige, but that was made for tv.

i mean, i didn't like monster's ball, but she was good in it.


2. the damsel in distress thing is pathetic, no matter the skin tone of the people. that's part of the mass sexism of mainstream movies and a lot of their audience.
[Edited 3/17/10 19:34pm]


Halle was very good in a role as a crack user in Jungle Fever. Granted, that was also a negative character. But at least director Spike Lee never told Halle to bend over! lol
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Reply #93 posted 03/17/10 8:32pm

cborgman

avatar

Timmy84 said:

cborgman said:



she didnt win for taxi driver


Yeah she won for "Silence of the Lambs".


i just had someone saying in p&r the other day that she won for playing a "ho who gets raped"

"The fascist of the future will call themselves anti fascists."
- Ignazio Silone
"RESIST FASCISM. VOTE TRUMP." - Drumpf supporters
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Reply #94 posted 03/17/10 8:32pm

Timmy84

sleepyq said:

Timmy84 said:


I think Janet's fallout had to do with subpar material, poor promotion, record labels mishandling her, and failure to promote overseas, and also JD trying to make Janet hip-hop. All those factors messed her up far more than the Super Bowels. And yes I said that on purpose lol
[Edited 3/17/10 20:07pm]

Yes! U got it! She was mismanaged and got a lot of bad advice. Since when was Janet an R&B singer?

I'm just sad Janet never got to come back. Mariah had TEOM and Madonna had COADF. Those albums sold 9 million worldwide in 2005, making them the biggest albums released that year and marking a triumphant return to the top for those 2 divas after their flops in the early '00s.

With Mimi and Madonna coming back like that, we know the pressure must have been very heavy on Janet. Did her ppl really think she could come back to the top with an album like 20 YO? That album was awful, easily her worst work ever, and at a time when she really needed to come with fiyah. And Call On Me as a comeback single? A generic track with a rent-a-rapper? They ruined whatever prospects she had at a comeback with that. And we all know how the story went from there... sad


The "20 YO" era was one of the worst periods of Janet's career. "Damita Jo" was OK because the album did decent in the US and UK but afterwards, you'd think Janet and her management would've tried to map out a real game plan, but that was all they came up with? I haven't listened to that album since I bought it. I played it like five times and stopped. "Discipline" was decent but I don't remember the last time I played it and Def Jam didn't even promote it, which was bad enough because Janet was in the same label with Mariah at the time. confused
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Reply #95 posted 03/17/10 8:33pm

Timmy84

phunkdaddy said:

Timmy84 said:



I never got the big deal about Halle. Angela Bassett surely had more talent lol


punany power


Or she gives good head. lol
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Reply #96 posted 03/17/10 8:33pm

cborgman

avatar

TonyVanDam said:

cborgman said:



1. finally?

maybe i am forgetting something, but i don't remember halle being that great in anything prior to monster's ball. introducing dorthy dandrige, but that was made for tv.

i mean, i didn't like monster's ball, but she was good in it.


2. the damsel in distress thing is pathetic, no matter the skin tone of the people. that's part of the mass sexism of mainstream movies and a lot of their audience.
[Edited 3/17/10 19:34pm]


Halle was very good in a role as a crack user in Jungle Fever. Granted, that was also a negative character. But at least director Spike Lee never told Halle to bend over! lol

it's been a while since i saw that as it isn't one of my favorite spike movies, but wasnt that a really minor role in that movie?

"The fascist of the future will call themselves anti fascists."
- Ignazio Silone
"RESIST FASCISM. VOTE TRUMP." - Drumpf supporters
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Reply #97 posted 03/17/10 8:33pm

phunkdaddy

avatar

Timmy84 said:

TD3 said:

I'm not a fan of Ms. Jackson at all... I think she has as much talent as dry paint. I think she was scapegoat for those who had issues with Michael,
she was a Jackson, less kick her since we can't get him. What happened that night (Super Bowl) was mistake and much to do about nothing, plan and simple. What's even more horrible, very few people stood up for Ms. Jackson so say, I know her, that's not something she would do, and if she said this was an unfortunate accident than it was. No one came to her defense, shame.neutral



=====
[Edited 3/17/10 18:20pm]


Yep, even black folks dissed her and that was supposed to be the community to "have her back". So she was a scapegoat for EVERYBODY. I won't forget when Chris Rock went on a rant against her (not to mention MJ and "greasy ass Jermaine").


eek
Seriously what did they say and what did Chris have to say.
Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint
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Reply #98 posted 03/17/10 8:34pm

Timmy84

cborgman said:

Timmy84 said:



Yeah she won for "Silence of the Lambs".


i just had someone saying in p&r the other day that she won for playing a "ho who gets raped"


neutral Wow... well they should check Jodie's Oscar history and her films because I'm sure she didn't get raped in them or won an award for getting raped in a film. confused
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Reply #99 posted 03/17/10 8:35pm

midiscover

TD3 said:

midiscover said:



A few celebs came to her defense but overall the people that were a part of the incident didn't. Because they felt their careers were on the line.



lol You and I disagree about the stuff you put a line through, that's your girl and that's OK.

I didn't even watch any of the Super Bowel. But when Ms. Jackson told her side of the story it seem logical to me but the shit kept snow balling. I'm still convinced this was impart she was a scapegoat. Afterwards... when she was on Winfrey show and spoke of how her so called friends and long time associates turned away, wow. I still think folks didn't stand up for her..... How much did that fiasco affect her music sales I can't say for sure, since I'm not a listener of her music.



Sweetie, Janet was the media's scapegoat not anyone else's. The media found someone to bully and beat so they did just that by playing the clip over and over AND attacking Janet. America is stupid and hypnotized by the media so of course they fall for the bait. Her "fans" departed. Janet's career has suffered since. Yes, her commercial success was so-so since The Velvet Rope but it really took a dive after the Superbowl. People in her camp were also shady so she had to boot some of those mothafuckas cool
[Edited 3/17/10 20:36pm]
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Reply #100 posted 03/17/10 8:35pm

phunkdaddy

avatar

Timmy84 said:

phunkdaddy said:



punany power


Or she gives good head. lol


That's why Dave Justice strayed because she
didn't give head. He took to the streets of Atlanta.
Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint
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Reply #101 posted 03/17/10 8:36pm

TonyVanDam

cborgman said:

TonyVanDam said:



Halle was very good in a role as a crack user in Jungle Fever. Granted, that was also a negative character. But at least director Spike Lee never told Halle to bend over! lol

it's been a while since i saw that as it isn't one of my favorite spike movies, but wasnt that a really minor role in that movie?


nod
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Reply #102 posted 03/17/10 8:37pm

cborgman

avatar

Timmy84 said:

cborgman said:



i just had someone saying in p&r the other day that she won for playing a "ho who gets raped"


neutral Wow... well they should check Jodie's Oscar history and her films because I'm sure she didn't get raped in them or won an award for getting raped in a film. confused


well, i went into some polite detailed corrections, but... i think people tend to see what they want to see when it comes to oscars. the thread that statement was in was a thread talking about how black people only win for negative roles.

i pointed out that almost no one ever wins an oscar for playing a good person who makes good choices and lives a good life, as those characters are almost always one dimensional and boring.

"The fascist of the future will call themselves anti fascists."
- Ignazio Silone
"RESIST FASCISM. VOTE TRUMP." - Drumpf supporters
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Reply #103 posted 03/17/10 8:37pm

Timmy84

phunkdaddy said:

Timmy84 said:



Yep, even black folks dissed her and that was supposed to be the community to "have her back". So she was a scapegoat for EVERYBODY. I won't forget when Chris Rock went on a rant against her (not to mention MJ and "greasy ass Jermaine").


eek
Seriously what did they say and what did Chris have to say.


Black folks, some of them, maybe a lot of them idk said that Janet got a "wake-up call", they thought her usage of sexual lyrics in the album were overdone and therefore thought she was a hypocrite after her "Super Bowel apology". And Chris was all like "a 40-year-old woman whipping out his man's titty, this ain't Magic City, church people coming home turning on the TV, 'oh Lord', the titty didn't even believe it was outside! A 40-year-old titty is your man's titty, a 20-year-old titty is a community titty!" I found it odd a man himself approaching 40 was calling someone else who whipped it out "old". It seemed that way to me. I think she was also dissed because she "was too old for that" and "she should've known better because she's black, a woman and a Jackson."

So they didn't really feel the need to support her anymore. confused Which was real dumb.
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Reply #104 posted 03/17/10 8:38pm

cborgman

avatar

TonyVanDam said:

cborgman said:


it's been a while since i saw that as it isn't one of my favorite spike movies, but wasnt that a really minor role in that movie?


nod


not exatly oscar worthy then

"The fascist of the future will call themselves anti fascists."
- Ignazio Silone
"RESIST FASCISM. VOTE TRUMP." - Drumpf supporters
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Reply #105 posted 03/17/10 8:39pm

Timmy84

cborgman said:

Timmy84 said:



neutral Wow... well they should check Jodie's Oscar history and her films because I'm sure she didn't get raped in them or won an award for getting raped in a film. confused


well, i went into some polite detailed corrections, but... i think people tend to see what they want to see when it comes to oscars. the thread that statement was in was a thread talking about how black people only win for negative roles.

i pointed out that almost no one ever wins an oscar for playing a good person who makes good choices and lives a good life, as those characters are almost always one dimensional and boring.


Yeah most actors and actresses who win Oscars for their roles, some of the roles require you to be a drug kingpin, a Mafia boss, an asshole, etc. Marlon Brando surely didn't do any noble act of good in "The Godfather" did he? lol
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Reply #106 posted 03/17/10 8:40pm

TD3

avatar

midiscover said:

TD3 said:




lol You and I disagree about the stuff you put a line through, that's your girl and that's OK.

I didn't even watch any of the Super Bowel. But when Ms. Jackson told her side of the story it seem logical to me but the shit kept snow balling. I'm still convinced this was impart she was a scapegoat. Afterwards... when she was on Winfrey show and spoke of how her so called friends and long time associates turned away, wow. I still think folks didn't stand up for her..... How much did that fiasco affect her music sales I can't say for sure, since I'm not a listener of her music.



Sweetie, Janet was the media's scapegoat not anyone else's. The media found someone to bully and beat so they did just that by playing the clip over and over AND attacking Janet. America is stupid and hypnotized by the media so of course they fall for the bait. Her "fans" departed. Janet's career has suffered since. Yes, her commercial success was so-so since The Velvet Rope but it really took a dive after the Superbowl. People in her camp were also shady so she had to boot some of those mothafuckas cool



That's your take, but it's not mine.
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Reply #107 posted 03/17/10 8:40pm

Timmy84

cborgman said:

TonyVanDam said:



nod


not exatly oscar worthy then


Her minutes were about 15-20 in that film. I think Samuel L. Jackson put in a way better performance than her. In fact HE became a star after "Jungle Fever", NOT Halle.
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Reply #108 posted 03/17/10 8:41pm

midiscover

TD3 said:

midiscover said:




Sweetie, Janet was the media's scapegoat not anyone else's. The media found someone to bully and beat so they did just that by playing the clip over and over AND attacking Janet. America is stupid and hypnotized by the media so of course they fall for the bait. Her "fans" departed. Janet's career has suffered since. Yes, her commercial success was so-so since The Velvet Rope but it really took a dive after the Superbowl. People in her camp were also shady so she had to boot some of those mothafuckas cool



That's your take, but it's not mine.



What do you mean that's my take? It's clear as the day.
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Reply #109 posted 03/17/10 8:42pm

cborgman

avatar

Timmy84 said:

cborgman said:



well, i went into some polite detailed corrections, but... i think people tend to see what they want to see when it comes to oscars. the thread that statement was in was a thread talking about how black people only win for negative roles.

i pointed out that almost no one ever wins an oscar for playing a good person who makes good choices and lives a good life, as those characters are almost always one dimensional and boring.


Yeah most actors and actresses who win Oscars for their roles, some of the roles require you to be a drug kingpin, a Mafia boss, an asshole, etc. Marlon Brando surely didn't do any noble act of good in "The Godfather" did he? lol


what really blows my mind is people are complaining about monique winning but have no issue with christoph waltz winning the same night for playing a sadistic nazi who mercilessly hunts and kills jews.

"The fascist of the future will call themselves anti fascists."
- Ignazio Silone
"RESIST FASCISM. VOTE TRUMP." - Drumpf supporters
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Reply #110 posted 03/17/10 8:42pm

Timmy84

This is staying off-topic but "Jungle Fever" was one of the worst Spike Lee films of all time. Stevie's soundtrack was 10 times better. lol
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Reply #111 posted 03/17/10 8:43pm

sleepyq

trueiopian said:

sleepyq said:

Ummm... I hate to break it to some ppl, but Janet's commercial plummet had little to do with the Superbowl.

If it was about the Superbowl, how do u explain her flopping in the UK? Frace? Germany? Japan? They all thought it was much ado about nothin! Yet she flopped in thsoe places too. lol

America is Janet's BEST market. Discipline hit #1 in The US and reached gold status. Compare that to reaching #63 in the UK and not even shifting 10,000 copies. Was that because of the superbowl too?

Sometimes, ppl just fall off. Why did Paula Abdul start flopping in the mid 90s? Why did Cyndi start flopping? Why did Cher flop at various stages in her career? Tina? Why do ppl flop? Ppl always try to pin it on somethin, but the real thing is A HIT IS NEVER GUARANTEED. Janet was gettin older and ppl were over it... that's all it was. SB just sped up somethin that was already comin. American radio doesn't play old ladies, anyway.


I understand what you're saying but I disagree.

Janet's main market has always been America. It has NEVER been overseas leave that for her brother, who was the total opposite. The same can be said for Madonna and a few others. Her career hurt gratefully because of the Superbowl. Yes, she's an aging pop star and of course, ageism is a focus in America. But to say the Superbowl hurt her career a little is pure bullshit.
[Edited 3/17/10 20:22pm]

SB didn't destroy her career. Its the bad decisions made after the fact that did her in.

Anybody can bounce back from anything, and its very true, believe me. Ppl can forgive ANYTHIN, u just have to give them what they want and say the right things.

... as for overseas... no she has never been on MJ/Madonna level, but how do u ratinalize Janet's inability to even reach silver status in most countries? Thats like selling 200k in the US. Do u know how low that is? SB has little to do with it... had she focused overseas, she wouldnt have flopped so badly at all. It was mismanagement.
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Reply #112 posted 03/17/10 8:43pm

Timmy84

cborgman said:

Timmy84 said:



Yeah most actors and actresses who win Oscars for their roles, some of the roles require you to be a drug kingpin, a Mafia boss, an asshole, etc. Marlon Brando surely didn't do any noble act of good in "The Godfather" did he? lol


what really blows my mind is people are complaining about monique winning but have no issue with christoph waltz winning the same night for playing a sadistic nazi who mercilessly hunts and kills jews.


Yeah I don't even make it such a big deal anymore... the Oscars are just another popularity contest, just like the Grammys (and the Billboard charts)...
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Reply #113 posted 03/17/10 8:43pm

cborgman

avatar

Timmy84 said:

cborgman said:



not exatly oscar worthy then


Her minutes were about 15-20 in that film. I think Samuel L. Jackson put in a way better performance than her. In fact HE became a star after "Jungle Fever", NOT Halle.


i should watch it again. i don't think i have seen it since the early 90s. it was never my favorite spike.

but just thinking about spike makes me want to put on my passing strange dvd again.

mushy

"The fascist of the future will call themselves anti fascists."
- Ignazio Silone
"RESIST FASCISM. VOTE TRUMP." - Drumpf supporters
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Reply #114 posted 03/17/10 8:43pm

midiscover

trueiopian said:

sleepyq said:

Ummm... I hate to break it to some ppl, but Janet's commercial plummet had little to do with the Superbowl.

If it was about the Superbowl, how do u explain her flopping in the UK? Frace? Germany? Japan? They all thought it was much ado about nothin! Yet she flopped in thsoe places too. lol

America is Janet's BEST market. Discipline hit #1 in The US and reached gold status. Compare that to reaching #63 in the UK and not even shifting 10,000 copies. Was that because of the superbowl too?

Sometimes, ppl just fall off. Why did Paula Abdul start flopping in the mid 90s? Why did Cyndi start flopping? Why did Cher flop at various stages in her career? Tina? Why do ppl flop? Ppl always try to pin it on somethin, but the real thing is A HIT IS NEVER GUARANTEED. Janet was gettin older and ppl were over it... that's all it was. SB just sped up somethin that was already comin. American radio doesn't play old ladies, anyway.


I understand what you're saying but I disagree.

Janet's main market has always been America. It has NEVER been overseas leave that for her brother, who was the total opposite. The same can be said for Madonna and a few others. Her career hurt gratefully because of the Superbowl. Yes, she's an aging pop star and of course, ageism is a focus in America. But to say the Superbowl hurt her career a little is pure bullshit.
[Edited 3/17/10 20:22pm]



BINGO!!

I always get a cackle when folks say the superbowl didn't hurt Janet's career. Her career suffered big time and so did her image. Most of her "fans" didn't come to her defense and her stupid, wack-job family didn't either. Bitches. neutral
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Reply #115 posted 03/17/10 8:45pm

Timmy84

cborgman said:

Timmy84 said:



Her minutes were about 15-20 in that film. I think Samuel L. Jackson put in a way better performance than her. In fact HE became a star after "Jungle Fever", NOT Halle.


i should watch it again. i don't think i have seen it since the early 90s. it was never my favorite spike.

but just thinking about spike makes me want to put on my passing strange dvd again.

mushy


lol I'd only watch Samuel's parts. He was brilliant.
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Reply #116 posted 03/17/10 8:48pm

phunkdaddy

avatar

Timmy84 said:

cborgman said:



i should watch it again. i don't think i have seen it since the early 90s. it was never my favorite spike.

but just thinking about spike makes me want to put on my passing strange dvd again.

mushy


lol I'd only watch Samuel's parts. He was brilliant.


I thought Halle was good as well. Remember she really put herself into
character to play the part. She went to a crackhouse and talked to
real crack addicts and didn't bathe for a few days leading Chris
Rock to say i'll take a funky Halle Berry.
lol
Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint
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Reply #117 posted 03/17/10 8:49pm

Timmy84

phunkdaddy said:

Timmy84 said:



lol I'd only watch Samuel's parts. He was brilliant.


I thought Halle was good as well. Remember she really put herself into
character to play the part. She went to a crackhouse and talked to
real crack addicts and didn't bathe for a few days leading Chris
Rock to say i'll take a funky Halle Berry.
lol


Good at being stank lol
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Reply #118 posted 03/17/10 8:51pm

TD3

avatar

midiscover said:

TD3 said:




That's your take, but it's not mine.



What do you mean that's my take? It's clear as the day.



OK.
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Reply #119 posted 03/17/10 8:51pm

trueiopian

sleepyq said:

trueiopian said:



I understand what you're saying but I disagree.

Janet's main market has always been America. It has NEVER been overseas leave that for her brother, who was the total opposite. The same can be said for Madonna and a few others. Her career hurt gratefully because of the Superbowl. Yes, she's an aging pop star and of course, ageism is a focus in America. But to say the Superbowl hurt her career a little is pure bullshit.
[Edited 3/17/10 20:22pm]

SB didn't destroy her career. Its the bad decisions made after the fact that did her in.

Anybody can bounce back from anything, and its very true, believe me. Ppl can forgive ANYTHIN, u just have to give them what they want and say the right things.

... as for overseas... no she has never been on MJ/Madonna level, but how do u ratinalize Janet's inability to even reach silver status in most countries? Thats like selling 200k in the US. Do u know how low that is? SB has little to do with it... had she focused overseas, she wouldnt have flopped so badly at all. It was mismanagement.


No. Sorry, but HELL NO. This is all bullshit.

The Superbowl DID destroy her career whether you'd like to believe it or not. The moment the media started dissecting the whole incident and attacking her over and over. It was OVA. The media is powerful. They can easily sway people into believing certain ideals and such. You remember 9/11? How the media played the clip over and over until we couldn't get enough. Not everyone can bounce back. Janet's image has always been important with her music.

I never said the Superbowl hurt her overseas sales. Honestly, she's hardly thought of overseas (besides Japan) and Janet knows this. Reason why she hardly ever goes overseas and promotes. If she had a smart management of way of thinking business wise - she would strengthen her market overseas because they could hardly give a fuck about image. That's why MJ and Madonna sold well overall because they had a strong market internationally. They flopped in America. It's not some kind of a revelation that aging pop stars don't do well here.
[Edited 3/17/10 20:53pm]
[Edited 3/17/10 20:57pm]
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