Comic relief. Will Madonna still be doing her MJ tribute now that she knows what MJ really thought of her?

They did apparently find gay porn at Neverland. When Wade Robson was being questioned that came out, according to Vanity Fair. In an attempt to get to the truth I asked MJ's defenders to produce that section of the transcripts but not a single one of them did (even though many of them have the transcripts on their hard drives).

midnightmover said:

You mean the Vanity Fair article that was published during the trial? I don't remember a mention of gay porn, just a bunch of straight and girl on girl stuff. I'm sure someone has the article and transcripts

bboy87 said:

Wade Robson, being questioned by the prosecution, as reported in Vanity Fair.....


"If you had known Michael Jackson, as a grown man, was reading Playboy, Hustler, Penthouse, magazines like that, showing naked women, would that have concerned you?" Robson said no, but it would depend on the kind of pornographic material. Zonen (a prosecutor) seized the opportunity. He strode over to the table where the evidence was kept and pulled out a large photo book called Boys Will Be Boys. Over and over he asked Robson to pick a page and describe what he saw—naked boys of 10, 11, or 12 with their genitalia prominently displayed. Then Zonen produced a second book, "of photographs of two men engaged in sex acts with one another." He asked, "And, in fact, the sex acts are all acts of either masturbation, oral sex, or sodomy; is that right?" Robson said yes. "Would you be concerned about a person who possesses that book crawling into bed with a 10-year-old boy?" Robson said, "Yes, I guess so." And so on. Every time Mesereau (Michael's lawyer) tried to blunt the previous testimony, Zonen would get up and grab another book — seven in all.
[Edited 10/10/09 19:39pm]

lavenderfields said:

If they found kiddie porn, they would have charged him with possession of child porn, it's practically the easiest crime to be charged with and get a conviction for, infact most men who get caught with kiddie-porn plead guilty before the case gets to court, because in most cases it such an open an shut case.

Sneddon wanted MJ convicted so badly, that if there was such evidence he would have nailed him right there and then, instead of charging him with something as stupid kidnapping.

midnightmover said:

i totally disproved your gay porn stance by looking up the so-called porn books. you've got amnesia
[Edited 10/10/09 19:52pm]

there was only straight porn in house
a few arty photo books

and even the straight porn didn't have mj's fingerprints on it, i donn't think

midnightmover said:

we don't know what he thought. he was talking about madonna of the late 80's early 90's when he was a crazy badass. and he said motherhood would change her... she's obviously different
[Edited 10/10/09 20:28pm]

midnightmover said:

If I remember correctly, the photographer sent that to Michael as a gift or something


here's the court transcripts
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4934ZTD9

bboy87 said:[quote]

midnightmover said:

After June 13th 2005, I put all of it behind me so I'm re-reading all of this

bboy87 said:

i know! damn how informatmtion can get twisted

they found pics/painting of kids that we've all seen most of. also fans give him lots of stuff too when they know he's interested in them

dearmother said:

Could your IQ possibly be any lower? There is only ONE BOOK named in there and it is NOT THE ONE that features the sex acts. I explained this to you before. Read the quotes and comprehend.

mimi07 said:

What the fuck are you talking about? He said "She's not a nice person" and listed her as someone who was jealous of him. He was hanging out with her in the early 90s but he was giving his opinion in the PRESENT TENSE!

But thanks for proving what Lavenderfields said about how blind MJ fans are. Even when something is right in front of you as plain as daylight you still choose not to see it.
[Edited 10/10/09 20:28pm]

bboy87 said:[quote]

midnightmover said:

This account confirms what Vanity Fair said! You guys who claim to know so much haven't even noticed this!

i bet madonna laughed when she heard about it, i would

dearmother said:

This post is an admission of intellectual defeat on your part.

midnightmover said:

yeah present tense was almost 10 years ago, right smart ass and u chose to ignore when he said she might have changed.
[Edited 10/10/09 20:27pm]

midnightmover said:

Yes he was talking in the present tense but before that he stated 'when I was with her' which would of been back in the 90's. Michaels way of phrasing things isnt the best. But he definitley was talking about the experience he had with her in the 90's. Have you red the whole transcripts? It doesnt sound like it. Because he did go on to say motherhood would change her, even though she had been a mother for the past 3 or 4 years when he stated that but he probably hadnt met her again after that, besides the Liz Taylor event.

lavenderfields said:

Well at least you concede that it is possible he had a sexual relationship with LMP, even though you believe he could still be gay. It's true there are lots of gay men that do and can have sexual relationships with women. That's the difference between someone like you and Midnightmover. Midnightmover believes and convince he is 100% right that MJ could not have a relationship with any woman because he was gay.

Now, I don't believe MJ was some playa, like some fans do, and he had women left, right and centre, he clearly wasn't a casanova. But if he was gay and had a double life, where are all the gay lovers? Why haven't they come out now and spoken up? There is more proof that he and Grace, the Nanny were lovers than him and any man.

Arnotts said:

thank you...like i was saying

dearmother said:

ur right

Arnotts said:

He was giving his opinion of her at the time of the interview. He said "SHE'S NOT A NICE PERSON". He described how jealous she was of him. Of course he gave examples of her rudeness from the the early 90s because that's when he was hanging out with her, but he was clearly giving his opinion in the PRESENT TENSE!

For those of you who believe he's a pedophile I just want to know, when it comes to Macauley Culkin, Brett Barnes, Emanual, and the like, do you believe he picked and chose who he would molest and they werent part of it, or do you think they're lying when they say that he didnt? I've always been curious about there opinion on that. I just think out of all the boys Macauley was the one he was most taken with, of course I don't mean that in a sexual way as I don't believe he was a pedophile but I look at it as the way your taken with a friend, like a best friend. But someone who views him as having more sinister thoughts I wonder what there view on that is.

midnightmover said:

Yes, I get that, but he hadnt met her in the present tense. He hadnt seen her since the 1991 event so all he had to base his thoughts on was that time. How can you not get that? Thats what we mean, even if he was talking in the present tense he was still talking about the way she was when he knew her.

whatsgoingon said:

Stop lying! I've said a million times that I think he had sex with Lisa Marie. The fact that you are misrepresenting me so brazenly shows why your posts can't be taken seriously. First you resort to wild speculations about my sexuality, then to complete lies about my arguments. Like most MJ defenders you have an appalling lack of integrity.

Arnotts said:

You've now completely changed your argument. You're now simply saying that his opinion was BASED around his past experiences with her. But whatever his opinion was BASED ON, there is no question that the opinion expressed in those tapes reflects the way he felt at the present time. What that opinion was BASED ON is another issue.

mimi07 said:[quote]

bboy87 said:

i know! damn how informatmtion can get twisted


I cannot say what evidence found at Neverland Ranch was officially presented at trial of the top of my head but apparently the following is an offical list of evidence that was found at the ranch. Whether it was or was not presented at trial I am not sure. However, whether it was presented or not to me does not matter as there are sometimes many legal loopholes which preclude evidence from being presented. What is important to me, is the list of items found at Neverland. This, in and of itself is enough for me to form an opinion. See below. This is from a website that listed the partial items seized:


This is only a partial list of what was found in the Neverland search.
I emphasize that: a partial list.
I’ve summarized the official descriptions of these pieces of evidence,
hence the numerous elipses.

A few points of interest to note:

1. Contrary to the f’loons claims, a number of nudie male materials were found. Remember, this is just part of the list, it doesn’t include, for instance, some of the nude guy materials we already know about.

2. MJ had Macauley’s photo in his _bathroom_. Where a lot of his porn was found (plus some bottles of booze not included in this particular list). This, f’loons, is the bathroom used by the boys who spent time in MJ’s bedroom.

3. The cops retrieved a couple of bags containing, among other things, bloody bedsheets and nine pairs of men’s underwear from the *library area of the upstairs video/arcade room*!

4. This partial list goes far to illustrate how Neverland was _loaded_ with porn. They found it everywhere. Note that most of it was freely available to kids. Very little was locked up.

5. Check out the drug stuff. It’s well known that MJ has a substance abuse problem, and that he’s hooked on Xanax. Look at all the prescriptions found in other people’s names. Note that his bestest, most favorite DERMATOLOGIST buddy doctor – Dr. Arnold Klein – wrote a prescription for Xanax for MJ’s dear friend Frank Tyson, which was found in MJ’s possession. What’s a dermatologist doing writing a scrip for mood-altering drug?
Also note that a Las Vegas physician wrote two other scrips for Xanax, *neither* of which were in MJ’s name, but both of which were found in his possession.
And Dr. Klein wrote another prescription for another person whose given address was actually that of a television production company!
Plus the syringe. Plus the ‘unidentified substance’ which was sent off to the state lab for testing.
Plus the letter from MJ’s physician about detox programs.
Put it all together and what do you get?

Here we go:
Item number 301…five DVD media covers…the covers indicated the contents were films from the Hustler ‘Barely Legal’ series…

…Item number 302 was described as a pornographic magazine located within the master bathroom at the Neverland Ranch residence. …I found it to be a periodical entitled, ‘The Best of Club’…

…Item number 303..three books that contained nude photographs, found in the master bedroom within the Neverland Ranch… …the first book was… titled Scenes D’Interieur…The book consisted of a compilation of photographs of nude and/or semi-nude women, in sexually explicit poses.
…The second book was…Camp Cove – Photos Sydney Men… the book was a compilation of naked and semi-naked men…
…The third book was…titled Dressup: Playacts and Fantasies of Childhood. …This book appeared to be a compilation of photographs that appeared to depict either pre-teen or early teen age individuals. Some of the pictured children were nude and/or semi-nude.

…Item Number 304. This item was described as being two pornographic magazines and two nude art books found in the master bathroom at the Neverland Ranch. …The Gynoids appeared to have a fetish (bondage, sadomasochism, piercings, etc.) related theme.

…Item number 305…a photograph of Macauley Culkin, which was located in the master bathroom…

…Item number 306…a pornographic magazine located within a metal brief case in the master bathroom…

…Item number 307…a book, which contained nude photographs of men…found in the master bathroom…titled Bidgood…a compilation of photographs of nude and semi-nude men.

…Item Number 309…a black leather bag, which contained pornographic magazines and pornographic DVDs.

…Within a separate compartment within this front portion of the briefcase…a 5cc syringe (no needle).

…On the reverse side of the briefcase was a compartment that contained miscellaneous loose papers and envelopes.
…There was a postcard depicting young boys (clothed) lined up at a urinal.

…The main compartment contained miscellaneous paperwork, pornographic periodicals…and two DVD cases that appeared to contain pornographic material…the first DVD was titled Michael Ryan’s Believe It Or Not…the second DVD was titled Sloppy Dogs Presents: Fuck Me, I’m A Bad Girl.

…a letter from a student Councilor/Teacher…wrote of a desire to bring a group of children to California for the purposes of meeting with Michael Jackson.

…a greeting card from Erma J. Lardydell…the writer indicated she sang with Michael Jackson and provided the name of her son, Prince Alba, who was thirteen years of age…

…The final items within this compartment were the May 2002 issue of Gallery and the September 2002 issue of Gallery.

Item Number 313…a book that contained nude photographs. This item was located in the master bathroom…This book was titled Naked As A Jaybird…some of the pictures depicted sexually explicit activities.

…Item Number 505. This item was described as being three books with photographs of nude and partially clothed children. This item was found in the downstairs cellar area of the video/arcade area.

Item number 508…a book depicting nude children…titled The Fourth Sex, Adolescent Extremes…some of the pictures depicted individuals wearing no clothing, or in a state of partial dress…

Item Number 509…a book…titled Cronos…the book appeared to be a compilation of numerous photographs depicting men, women, and children of both sexes…the majority of the photographs depicted the subjects completely unclothed, including the male and female children…

…Item Number 510…two bags of miscellaneous underclothes and bloodied bed linen…located in the upstairs library room of the video/arcade area. The Disneyland bag contained a red Prada brand, long-sleeve shirt…I also found the bag to contain a white cotton sheet with reddish brown stains on it, which I believed were consistent with blood staining. The Garden City Hotel bag had a white Harbor Bay long-sleeved cotton shirt; a folded cotton bed sheet…and numerous pairs of size 30 cotton briefs…in total, there were nine pair of men’s cotton brief underwear. Some of the briefs had discolorations and/or stains, but all pairs appeared to have been washed.

Item number 514…the glass vial…seemed to contain remnants of a substance…submitted to the California…Crime Laboratory…

Item Number 515…medicine bottles, found in the upstairs library room of the video arcade area…four prescription bottles…

…the first bottle indicated the prescription was prescribed to a subject named Michael Armstrong…the prescription was for Percocet…

…the second bottle…to Peter Midani…it should be noted this address was also associated with a Grace Rwarambu (the nanny) …the location is actually a television production company…prescribing physician was a Dr. Klein…contained Prednisone…

…third bottle prescribed to ‘M.M.’…contents were…’Erytab’…
…fourth bottle indicated the intended recipient of the prescription was Frank Tyson…Dr. Arnold Klein…Beverly Hills…prescribed this medication…The prescription was for Alprazolam …

Item Number 518…prescription paperwork…a prescription for Frank Tyson…for Alprazolam…prescribing physician was Dr. William VanValin…a prescription for a Manuel Rivera…for Xanax…the prescribing physician was a Dr. William VanValin.

Item Number 349…paperwork found within the master bathroom…letter is addressed to ‘Dearest MJ’…the letter indicated it was from Dr. Farshchian…The letter pertains to a ‘program’ for outpatient detoxification…

Item Number 1001…Barely Legal magazine…found in the museum/office area…

Item number 1002…a magazine, found in the museum/office area…the December 2002 issue of ‘Naughty Neighbors’…

Item #365…two hardbound books…’Robert Maxwell Photographs’…’The Christy Report Exploring The Outer Edges of the Sexual Experience’…

Item Number 366…several books and magazines…located within the master bedroom/den area…
…five copies of ‘The Nudist’…contained nude photographs of men, women, and children…

…19 copies of ‘The Nudist, Sunshine and Health’…contained photographs of nude men, women, and children…

…one magazine titled ‘Solair Universelle Day Nudisme’…contained photographs of nude men, women, and children…

…a magazine titled ‘American Sunbather’…contained photographs of nude men, women, and children…

…three issues of ‘Eden’…contained photographs of nude men, women, and children…

…a softcover book…titled Man, a Sexual Study of Man…depicted naked males engaged in sexually explicit activities including oral copulation and anal sex…

…a softcover book…titled Taormina Wilhelm Von Gloeden…a compilation of photographs, which depicted both adult and juvenile males, who were posed in the nude…

…a softcover book…titled The Golden Age Of Neglect…the sexual behavior depicted in this book contained photography which depicted both male and female subjects, in various stages of undress, including full nudity. Some of the photographs depicted sexually explicit activity, including oral sex, masturbation, and digital penetration…the subjects appear to be within the age range of late adolescence to early adults…

…hard cover book…titled Before the Hand of Man…a compilation of photographs which depict nude males… hard cover book…titled Bob and Rod…a compilation of photographs of two adult males, who for the most part, were pictured in full and partial nudity…

MJ once wrote a note to his late sister-in-law:
“Dee Dee Please read this article about child malestation [sic] and please read it to Taj, T.S. and Tarryl [her children]. It brings out how even your own reletives [sic] can be malesters [sic] of children, or even uncle or aunts malesting [sic] nephew or nieces. Please read.”

http://www.courttv.com/ne...y2/17.html
[Edited 10/10/09 20:48pm]

midnightmover said:

I havent changed my argument. I've been saying that from the start. Can you explain to me what exactly I've changed? I stated from the start he was always talking present tense. But he was still talking about past situations, because he has NO current situation to talk of her about. Maybe you cant see that, but I'm sure Madonna realises the way she was back then and why he thought of her like that.

Arnotts said:

If you agree with me that he was giving his opinion in the present tense then there was really no reason for you to respond to me at all. We agree. He didn't like her.