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Gene Simmons: 'Radiohead's on Crack for Letting Fans Pay What They Want' Here another good article for good thought and/or laugh. Enjoy!
Tupac "Makaveli" Shakur (RIP 1971-1996) & Michael Jackson (RIP 1958-2009)
2 men that had their lives taken away the moment they were speaking out AND rebelling against the dark side of the music industry once too often. | |
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old people | |
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Good OLD Gene. Probably still working out what the ON button on a computer's for. There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently | |
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KISS was hardly much more than a business effort for him. Once in a while they tried something resembling artistry (uhm "The Elder"?), but seriously, it was a band whose career was funded by an audience that was even a decade or more younger than the freckled face age group he is referring to. | |
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Well Gene knows what he is talking about mainly because he always had the mind for business from day one of starting in music. He is merely saying that most of whats going on is not smart business. The RadioHead thing may have worked for RadioHead "somewhat" but it wouldnt work for about 90% of the artists out there, where if given a choice who would spend anything. Also Gene wasnt part of the Overpriced CD generation, hes a vinyl artist, and Vinyl was priced accordingly. The article points out about people being put out of work and claims that he isnt talking about music store employees, well of course the article would say that since, articles are done by corporations so u got to twist it to make Gene look "clueless", but case in point Last year you lost the Tower Records chain and 90% of the Musicland Chain, in 2008 you will lose 20% of the FYE chain and YES Best Buy and other BIG BOX stores are cutting there music departments 20%, because the music is what causes them to lose money daily, they take a 3 dollar hit at least on every CD they sale and now they are cutting stock back to accomodate those losses. a-ha "foot of the mountain TOUR 2009" a-ha "Ending on a High Note Final TOUR 2010" going everywhere! | |
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TonyVanDam said: There's no doubt that Simmons comes from the old school music biz where people had to trek down to the local music store and wait in line to buy an overpriced | |
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lastdecember said: Well Gene knows what he is talking about mainly because he always had the mind for business from day one of starting in music. He is merely saying that most of whats going on is not smart business. The RadioHead thing may have worked for RadioHead "somewhat" but it wouldnt work for about 90% of the artists out there, where if given a choice who would spend anything. Also Gene wasnt part of the Overpriced CD generation, hes a vinyl artist, and Vinyl was priced accordingly. The article points out about people being put out of work and claims that he isnt talking about music store employees, well of course the article would say that since, articles are done by corporations so u got to twist it to make Gene look "clueless", but case in point Last year you lost the Tower Records chain and 90% of the Musicland Chain, in 2008 you will lose 20% of the FYE chain and YES Best Buy and other BIG BOX stores are cutting there music departments 20%, because the music is what causes them to lose money daily, they take a 3 dollar hit at least on every CD they sale and now they are cutting stock back to accomodate those losses.
gene cares more about the business aspect of making music than the expression aspect, which is fine and completely valid, but it's not the only valid approach out there. if an artist has the money to offer initiatives to fans such as what radiohead and NIN have done, why not take a calculated risk and offer an album online at a "name your own price" charge? radiohead beat the unauthorized leaks in a way that makes the band and the fans happy...that in itself is a victory, i'd say. i think what NIN and radiohead are doing are exciting, and i hope it's a hint of what's to come with other artists, where it's more about developing a strong bond between artist and listener and creating more direct ways of getting music. gene needs to stick to licensing KISS's image to pinball machines and coffins. | |
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Anxiety said: old people
I resemble that remark sir... tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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theAudience said: Anxiety said: old people
I resemble that remark sir... tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 no you don't. there's experienced, there's refined and then there's just plain damn-kids-get-outta-my-yard OLD. | |
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Anxiety said: lastdecember said: Well Gene knows what he is talking about mainly because he always had the mind for business from day one of starting in music. He is merely saying that most of whats going on is not smart business. The RadioHead thing may have worked for RadioHead "somewhat" but it wouldnt work for about 90% of the artists out there, where if given a choice who would spend anything. Also Gene wasnt part of the Overpriced CD generation, hes a vinyl artist, and Vinyl was priced accordingly. The article points out about people being put out of work and claims that he isnt talking about music store employees, well of course the article would say that since, articles are done by corporations so u got to twist it to make Gene look "clueless", but case in point Last year you lost the Tower Records chain and 90% of the Musicland Chain, in 2008 you will lose 20% of the FYE chain and YES Best Buy and other BIG BOX stores are cutting there music departments 20%, because the music is what causes them to lose money daily, they take a 3 dollar hit at least on every CD they sale and now they are cutting stock back to accomodate those losses.
gene cares more about the business aspect of making music than the expression aspect, which is fine and completely valid, but it's not the only valid approach out there. if an artist has the money to offer initiatives to fans such as what radiohead and NIN have done, why not take a calculated risk and offer an album online at a "name your own price" charge? radiohead beat the unauthorized leaks in a way that makes the band and the fans happy...that in itself is a victory, i'd say. i think what NIN and radiohead are doing are exciting, and i hope it's a hint of what's to come with other artists, where it's more about developing a strong bond between artist and listener and creating more direct ways of getting music. gene needs to stick to licensing KISS's image to pinball machines and coffins. well true in some respects but that is a new business model is only going to work if you are established and have LOYAL fans, which Radiohead and NIN do and honestly KISS could do this tomorrow and make a quick million. But its funny Gene is spun as being anti-business and trying new things considering he fought for and got every piece of ownership of all their material, while other band members were boozing it up Gene made sure they had a financial future and now can do whatever he wants with that music, at the end of the day its all business and every artist is looking to make their money, but im sure Radiohead and NIN wished that they owned their back catalog, to my knowledge they dont. a-ha "foot of the mountain TOUR 2009" a-ha "Ending on a High Note Final TOUR 2010" going everywhere! | |
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TonyVanDam said: Gene: Are you on f*cking crack? Do you really believe that's a business model that works? love is a fate resigned memories mar my mind love it is a fate resigned Over futile odds and laughed at by the Gods and now the final frame Love is a losing game | |
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Anxiety said: and then there's just plain damn-kids-get-outta-my-yard OLD.
love is a fate resigned memories mar my mind love it is a fate resigned Over futile odds and laughed at by the Gods and now the final frame Love is a losing game | |
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Anxiety said: gene needs to stick to licensing KISS's image to pinball machines and coffins.
And then there's the infant-wear...
...Old Gene doesn't miss a trick with his cradle-to-grave merchandising. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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Maybe Gene would be happier if the Radiohead price was set? | |
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theAudience said: Anxiety said: gene needs to stick to licensing KISS's image to pinball machines and coffins.
And then there's the infant-wear...
...Old Gene doesn't miss a trick with his cradle-to-grave merchandising. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 But why shouldnt he? Didnt Prince jam that damn symbol down our throats for a decade, and put it on shirts, tattoos etc... a-ha "foot of the mountain TOUR 2009" a-ha "Ending on a High Note Final TOUR 2010" going everywhere! | |
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Anxiety said: theAudience said: no you don't. there's experienced, there's refined and then there's just plain damn-kids-get-outta-my-yard OLD. Again, I resemble that remark sir... tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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lastdecember said: But why shouldnt he? Never said he shouldn't. It's a capitalist society. Simply an observation. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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lastdecember said: Anxiety said: gene cares more about the business aspect of making music than the expression aspect, which is fine and completely valid, but it's not the only valid approach out there. if an artist has the money to offer initiatives to fans such as what radiohead and NIN have done, why not take a calculated risk and offer an album online at a "name your own price" charge? radiohead beat the unauthorized leaks in a way that makes the band and the fans happy...that in itself is a victory, i'd say. i think what NIN and radiohead are doing are exciting, and i hope it's a hint of what's to come with other artists, where it's more about developing a strong bond between artist and listener and creating more direct ways of getting music. gene needs to stick to licensing KISS's image to pinball machines and coffins. well true in some respects but that is a new business model is only going to work if you are established and have LOYAL fans, which Radiohead and NIN do and honestly KISS could do this tomorrow and make a quick million. But its funny Gene is spun as being anti-business and trying new things considering he fought for and got every piece of ownership of all their material, while other band members were boozing it up Gene made sure they had a financial future and now can do whatever he wants with that music, at the end of the day its all business and every artist is looking to make their money, but im sure Radiohead and NIN wished that they owned their back catalog, to my knowledge they dont. to the contrary, i think gene is thought of as being very very very PRO-business, sometimes to the detriment of the creative end. but i also think KISS is like the "Star Wars" of rock music. It's not just about the original source content - it's about the action figures, the comic books, the bed sheets, the sippee cups, etc. - there's no point in looking for artistic purity in the KISS franchise, because to judge them that way is missing the whole point of what makes them fun. That said, I really can't take what Gene Simmons has to say about Radiohead at all seriously. | |
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theAudience said: Anxiety said: no you don't. there's experienced, there's refined and then there's just plain damn-kids-get-outta-my-yard OLD. Again, I resemble that remark sir... tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 if that's the case, i'd hate to see what i resemble! | |
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Cinnie said: Maybe Gene would be happier if the Radiohead price was set?
He did say people taking the music FOR FREE were pirates, essentially, but maybe if Radiohead had offered a download with a price, Gene would be aight? | |
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Anxiety said: if that's the case, i'd hate to see what i resemble! Unfortunately...
...I think we all end up there at some point. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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Anxiety said: lastdecember said: well true in some respects but that is a new business model is only going to work if you are established and have LOYAL fans, which Radiohead and NIN do and honestly KISS could do this tomorrow and make a quick million. But its funny Gene is spun as being anti-business and trying new things considering he fought for and got every piece of ownership of all their material, while other band members were boozing it up Gene made sure they had a financial future and now can do whatever he wants with that music, at the end of the day its all business and every artist is looking to make their money, but im sure Radiohead and NIN wished that they owned their back catalog, to my knowledge they dont. to the contrary, i think gene is thought of as being very very very PRO-business, sometimes to the detriment of the creative end. but i also think KISS is like the "Star Wars" of rock music. It's not just about the original source content - it's about the action figures, the comic books, the bed sheets, the sippee cups, etc. - there's no point in looking for artistic purity in the KISS franchise, because to judge them that way is missing the whole point of what makes them fun. That said, I really can't take what Gene Simmons has to say about Radiohead at all seriously. Well its all business in the end, whether the music is "cheesey" or "creative" is for people to judge, but both are going for the same end result, to make money and have ownership of what you do, and i think Tom and Gene and Trent would all agree on that. I mean i respect Radioheads move, but it only was successful somewhat because they had a fan base to begin with. And its no different than pimping stuff off your own website. a-ha "foot of the mountain TOUR 2009" a-ha "Ending on a High Note Final TOUR 2010" going everywhere! | |
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lastdecember said: Anxiety said: to the contrary, i think gene is thought of as being very very very PRO-business, sometimes to the detriment of the creative end. but i also think KISS is like the "Star Wars" of rock music. It's not just about the original source content - it's about the action figures, the comic books, the bed sheets, the sippee cups, etc. - there's no point in looking for artistic purity in the KISS franchise, because to judge them that way is missing the whole point of what makes them fun. That said, I really can't take what Gene Simmons has to say about Radiohead at all seriously. Well its all business in the end, whether the music is "cheesey" or "creative" is for people to judge, but both are going for the same end result, to make money and have ownership of what you do, and i think Tom and Gene and Trent would all agree on that. I mean i respect Radioheads move, but it only was successful somewhat because they had a fan base to begin with. And its no different than pimping stuff off your own website. i'm not really arguing the merits or "cred" of the actual music, with regards to KISS vs. NIN vs. radiohead vs. anyone else. i guess i'm talking more about the image of the band as a product, which, yes, i understand that NIN and radiohead are as much PRODUCTS as they are BANDS...it's just a matter of how you want to create an identity for that product. i guess what i'm trying to say is, the product of "KISS" is very different from the product of "RADIOHEAD". it's like comparing a box of Hamburger Helper with an Amy's Kitchen frozen vegan burrito. They're both on the shelves so we will give them our money, but I'd venture that each of those two products target very different customer bases with maybe a little bit of overlap. I certainly wouldn't care what someone from Craft or Betty Crocker would have to say about vegan or organic grocery items, since they're the last companies on earth I'd equate with vegan or organic items! But whether you're shucking MSG or tofu or schlock rock or experimental prog rock, a product is a product and business is business. I think Radiohead made a smart move. They have a limited edition album for 80 bucks that they promoted with the "pay as you will" download. I'm sure they're making a pretty penny from that. They beat the filesharers with their album download, and they made a few bucks at that. Another victory. And then the "regular" CD release comes out in January, and I'm sure that's going to sell very well. I fail to see the crackhead logic here! I think it's very savvy marketing sense. I also don't think there's a thing wrong with pimping out music on one's own web site, whether you're Radiohead or some obscure garage band nobody's ever heard of. It's what the web is for, ideally speaking. A really kickass band in Utah can be heard by people in Australia. I'm always very happy when a favorite obscure artist of mine shares some free tracks on their web site. I can direct friends there and give them a no-risk intro to someone I really like. Pimp away! | |
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Anxiety said: lastdecember said: Well its all business in the end, whether the music is "cheesey" or "creative" is for people to judge, but both are going for the same end result, to make money and have ownership of what you do, and i think Tom and Gene and Trent would all agree on that. I mean i respect Radioheads move, but it only was successful somewhat because they had a fan base to begin with. And its no different than pimping stuff off your own website. i'm not really arguing the merits or "cred" of the actual music, with regards to KISS vs. NIN vs. radiohead vs. anyone else. i guess i'm talking more about the image of the band as a product, which, yes, i understand that NIN and radiohead are as much PRODUCTS as they are BANDS...it's just a matter of how you want to create an identity for that product. i guess what i'm trying to say is, the product of "KISS" is very different from the product of "RADIOHEAD". it's like comparing a box of Hamburger Helper with an Amy's Kitchen frozen vegan burrito. They're both on the shelves so we will give them our money, but I'd venture that each of those two products target very different customer bases with maybe a little bit of overlap. I certainly wouldn't care what someone from Craft or Betty Crocker would have to say about vegan or organic grocery items, since they're the last companies on earth I'd equate with vegan or organic items! But whether you're shucking MSG or tofu or schlock rock or experimental prog rock, a product is a product and business is business. I think Radiohead made a smart move. They have a limited edition album for 80 bucks that they promoted with the "pay as you will" download. I'm sure they're making a pretty penny from that. They beat the filesharers with their album download, and they made a few bucks at that. Another victory. And then the "regular" CD release comes out in January, and I'm sure that's going to sell very well. I fail to see the crackhead logic here! I think it's very savvy marketing sense. I also don't think there's a thing wrong with pimping out music on one's own web site, whether you're Radiohead or some obscure garage band nobody's ever heard of. It's what the web is for, ideally speaking. A really kickass band in Utah can be heard by people in Australia. I'm always very happy when a favorite obscure artist of mine shares some free tracks on their web site. I can direct friends there and give them a no-risk intro to someone I really like. Pimp away! Which is what im saying, there is no difference in what Gene has done than what Radiohead or Prince or anyone else does, they are all going for the end result, and if any say they arent, they are trying somehting "artistic" that is a lie, its about making money. I dont think theres anything wrong with selling music from an official site, i think those sales should get factored into the Bullshit charts that are now all bought and sold. This would benefit alot of indie acts and also alot of older acts who just dont wanna get lost at a label. A girl i know(candice pillay) out in LA sold her CD via her myspace site, and sold about 100,000 at 10 bucks a pop, now of course 100,000 would get you dropped from a label or called "over" but are we kidding here, that is pure profit and thats what in the end the artists want, which is what they deserve. a-ha "foot of the mountain TOUR 2009" a-ha "Ending on a High Note Final TOUR 2010" going everywhere! | |
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Co-Sign from a business point of view the give away is not going to work for all artist or groups and even if you hate KISS. Gene is a smart business man.
lastdecember said: Well Gene knows what he is talking about mainly because he always had the mind for business from day one of starting in music. He is merely saying that most of whats going on is not smart business. The RadioHead thing may have worked for RadioHead "somewhat" but it wouldnt work for about 90% of the artists out there, where if given a choice who would spend anything. Also Gene wasnt part of the Overpriced CD generation, hes a vinyl artist, and Vinyl was priced accordingly. The article points out about people being put out of work and claims that he isnt talking about music store employees, well of course the article would say that since, articles are done by corporations so u got to twist it to make Gene look "clueless", but case in point Last year you lost the Tower Records chain and 90% of the Musicland Chain, in 2008 you will lose 20% of the FYE chain and YES Best Buy and other BIG BOX stores are cutting there music departments 20%, because the music is what causes them to lose money daily, they take a 3 dollar hit at least on every CD they sale and now they are cutting stock back to accomodate those losses. | |
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lastdecember said: Which is what im saying, there is no difference in what Gene has done than what Radiohead or Prince or anyone else does, they are all going for the end result, and if any say they arent, they are trying somehting "artistic" that is a lie, its about making money. I dont think theres anything wrong with selling music from an official site, i think those sales should get factored into the Bullshit charts that are now all bought and sold. This would benefit alot of indie acts and also alot of older acts who just dont wanna get lost at a label. A girl i know(candice pillay) out in LA sold her CD via her myspace site, and sold about 100,000 at 10 bucks a pop, now of course 100,000 would get you dropped from a label or called "over" but are we kidding here, that is pure profit and thats what in the end the artists want, which is what they deserve. i think that's a little overly cynical, but i will also say there is a smidge of truth in there. of course bands want to make money, lots of it. they want the work they love to be something self-sustaining, and they want success and all the fabulous things that come with being a rock star (and any rock musician who says they don't want even just a TASTE of the trappings of fame is full of it). i do think when people who really love making music become hugely popular, they can decide to scale back and take risks for the sake of their art, and also because they can afford to try different models of marketing their music. if what radiohead and NIN did this year makes it easier and more affordable for artists and audiences to connect in the long run, then good for them. it's interesting about your friend - it's almost as if it's more lucrative to be an indie or "DIY" artist than it is to be signed with a label, as long as the product you're selling is hot enough for people to want. | |
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You can easily judge Gene as being a bit old school. And in a way, he is. But he does have validity. Basically, the only artists raking some money off of CD sales are artists with huge follwings like Madonna and The Eagles, or artists that are BIG and not just your average artist like JT and Kanye West. Everyone else makes very little off of their music. Based on the effort the artist puts on their CDs, that does suck because, in the end, you want your album to get proper recognition and make good profit.
| |
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Cinnie said: There's no doubt that Simmons comes from the old school music biz where people had to trek down to the local music store and wait in line to buy an overpriced
Cheat sheet music is way cooler....and cheaper! Tupac "Makaveli" Shakur (RIP 1971-1996) & Michael Jackson (RIP 1958-2009)
2 men that had their lives taken away the moment they were speaking out AND rebelling against the dark side of the music industry once too often. | |
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Anxiety said: lastdecember said: Well Gene knows what he is talking about mainly because he always had the mind for business from day one of starting in music. He is merely saying that most of whats going on is not smart business. The RadioHead thing may have worked for RadioHead "somewhat" but it wouldnt work for about 90% of the artists out there, where if given a choice who would spend anything. Also Gene wasnt part of the Overpriced CD generation, hes a vinyl artist, and Vinyl was priced accordingly. The article points out about people being put out of work and claims that he isnt talking about music store employees, well of course the article would say that since, articles are done by corporations so u got to twist it to make Gene look "clueless", but case in point Last year you lost the Tower Records chain and 90% of the Musicland Chain, in 2008 you will lose 20% of the FYE chain and YES Best Buy and other BIG BOX stores are cutting there music departments 20%, because the music is what causes them to lose money daily, they take a 3 dollar hit at least on every CD they sale and now they are cutting stock back to accomodate those losses.
gene cares more about the business aspect of making music than the expression aspect, which is fine and completely valid, but it's not the only valid approach out there. if an artist has the money to offer initiatives to fans such as what radiohead and NIN have done, why not take a calculated risk and offer an album online at a "name your own price" charge? radiohead beat the unauthorized leaks in a way that makes the band and the fans happy...that in itself is a victory, i'd say. i think what NIN and radiohead are doing are exciting, and i hope it's a hint of what's to come with other artists, where it's more about developing a strong bond between artist and listener and creating more direct ways of getting music. gene needs to stick to licensing KISS's image to pinball machines and coffins. Every artist needs to ask them: Are you into music as a art form? OR Are you into music as a business? Tupac "Makaveli" Shakur (RIP 1971-1996) & Michael Jackson (RIP 1958-2009)
2 men that had their lives taken away the moment they were speaking out AND rebelling against the dark side of the music industry once too often. | |
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lastdecember said: Anxiety said: gene cares more about the business aspect of making music than the expression aspect, which is fine and completely valid, but it's not the only valid approach out there. if an artist has the money to offer initiatives to fans such as what radiohead and NIN have done, why not take a calculated risk and offer an album online at a "name your own price" charge? radiohead beat the unauthorized leaks in a way that makes the band and the fans happy...that in itself is a victory, i'd say. i think what NIN and radiohead are doing are exciting, and i hope it's a hint of what's to come with other artists, where it's more about developing a strong bond between artist and listener and creating more direct ways of getting music. gene needs to stick to licensing KISS's image to pinball machines and coffins. well true in some respects but that is a new business model is only going to work if you are established and have LOYAL fans, which Radiohead and NIN do and honestly KISS could do this tomorrow and make a quick million. But its funny Gene is spun as being anti-business and trying new things considering he fought for and got every piece of ownership of all their material, while other band members were boozing it up Gene made sure they had a financial future and now can do whatever he wants with that music, at the end of the day its all business and every artist is looking to make their money, but im sure Radiohead and NIN wished that they owned their back catalog, to my knowledge they dont. And don't forget about Paul Stanley. [Edited 11/24/07 16:39pm] Tupac "Makaveli" Shakur (RIP 1971-1996) & Michael Jackson (RIP 1958-2009)
2 men that had their lives taken away the moment they were speaking out AND rebelling against the dark side of the music industry once too often. | |
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