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Reply #90 posted 02/20/05 2:11am

Janfriend

GrayKing said:

Janfriend said:

No one said anything about singing soul songs soulfully


um... you did.


um...no I didn't. Where? No one that was mentioned on this thread is automatically a soul singer because they sang a song soulfully. I did not say anybody sang a soul song soulfully. Singing soulfully and soul music are two different things. I'm sorry, but you don't know what soul music is. It's a part of, but different from r&b and blues. It's type of music with a certain distinction. You can't just pull any song out your ass, put a soulful sounding voice on it, and call it soul

a song is a song. if it's sung as a soul song, and sung soulfully, then that's what it is: soul. which is what George Michael has done repeatedly throughout his career.


No, it's not. He would have to be consistant with it

define "soul" music. because "singing a soul song, soulfully" is the best i can come up with, and George Michael has done that.


What exactly are you calling a soul song? I hope you don't think r&b and soul are the same. They're similiar, not the same. Some of George's songs are closer to contemporary r&b, not soul. Soul music is like the middleman between blues and r&b, plus there are different types of r&b and different types of soul. Just like there are different types of rock: hard, pop, metal, heavy metal, punk. If you called N.E.R.D. rock singers because of "She wants to move" due to it's obvious rock influence people would be like confuse Webster's 6th definition of soul is the deep spiritual and emotional quality of black American culture; also, the espression of this, as in music -- adj. of, for, or like American blacks. I didn't make that shit up. Now soulful means full of deep feeling it has nothing to do with soul music. Singing any song soulfully does not it make soul music or the person singing it a soul singer

3. Soul singers are people like Otis Redding, Sam Cooke, Curtis Mayfield, Marvin Gaye, Aretha Franklin, and Anthony Hamilton. Justin, Joss, and George are not soul singers


oh, i see. only black people. thesexofit was right. Joss is a soul singer whether i like her or not, or whether you like IT or not. and George Michael is quite adept at being a soul singer. just because that isn't the ONLY THING he's done in his career doesn't mean he isn't that too.


It does have to be the only thing you do

i mean, Prince put out Kamasutra and a lot of rock songs, but i'm not going to tell you that he's not an r&b artist because of those things. likewise, i'm not going to tell you he's not a rock artist just because he's done r&b numbers.

soul songs sung soulfully (a la some of George Michael's work) = soul.


Prince isn't an r&b artist. He isn't a pop or rock artist either. You can't put him into a category, therefore you cannot say he is any of those. George does pop with r&b influences some of the time. He is not a soul singer

I'm getting the feeling that you think r&b and soul are the same and it's not
[Edited 2/20/05 2:21am]
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Reply #91 posted 02/20/05 8:15am

leecaldon

Janfriend said:

thesexofit said:



Whoa.....soul is not exclusive to blacks u know!


Then, why did you say but "faith" was a soul album right?.....the backing vox, the rhythm of the tracks.....all black influence!

hmmm not exclusive to blacks, huh?


White people and white radio certainly thought it was exclusive to blacks until they wanted to cash in on it. I say fuck the bullshit

I can't wait for the day a wave a white people want to do Tropical music. I can't wait till Hilary Duff comes out with her Salsa album. Can't wait until I hear Whoa.....Salsa is not exclusive to hispanics u know!

lol can't wait!



Damn that Eric Clapton for pretending to have the blues. And Miles Davis' white band members - they really had Miles fooled. And that Hendrix guy for having white band members so he could pretend to rock (why do I feel like I'm in a scene from White Men Can't Jump?).

So presumably, white people can't appreciate soul music either? Or maybe they can listen as long as they don't get involved with making it?

I can't believe this is happening on a Prince forum. I mean, Prince, of all people, who has covered so many styles of music.

ehuffnsd was right, this is what is wrong with America.

Joss Stone won Best Urban Act (not convinced this is the best title for the award) at the BRITs this year. Maybe she wasn't the most deserving winner but the only people who questioned her inclusion in the category were those who argued against her having what you would call a 'blues' background. (Nobody would question Mike Skinner of The Streets being in that category). Why was she there? Because she made a soul album. Race has nothing to do with it.

I'm sorry, but to be a soul singer, soul music doesn't have to be the only thing that you do. That's crap. If Jill Scott decided to do a punk song, does that disqualify her from being a soul singer?
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Reply #92 posted 02/20/05 1:21pm

BlaqueKnight

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The problem is that when white people do soul & r&b, other white people treat them as if they are the 2nd coming of Christ. They usually declare them the "best ever" and its not because they really are. Eminem was declared "best rapper" by the "majority" in the same vein. If you don't understand black peoples' problem with this, then you never will.
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Reply #93 posted 02/20/05 1:29pm

purplecam

avatar

Harlepolis said:

thedoorkeeper said:

I don't remember that happening - most have missed that one.
I do remember when he won the Soul Train award
& Dionne Warwick threw a hissy fit.


Speaking of Soul Train.

Remember when Whitney got booed th fuck out? OMG that dog disbelief lol

I remember watching that! I was shocked but I was laughing through.
I'm not a fan of "old Prince". I'm not a fan of "new Prince". I'm just a fan of Prince. Simple as that
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Reply #94 posted 02/21/05 6:11am

BRO915

I rememeber this back in 1989. It caused" a little controversy". George 's r&b side to me(like Average White Band) is authentic which is why I along with many other brothers and sistas in MY community didn't sweat it too much. Now if Rick Ashley's album would have been nominated and won biggrin ..... ,

Faith it not a r&b album. On my block..we viewed it as a masterful pop record with some r&b flavoring.....

I can't even front though..... that white boy was putting in some work on that bass on "Hard Day"... biggrin


Brother 9/15
[Edited 2/21/05 6:14am]
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Reply #95 posted 02/21/05 6:20am

DavidEye

Axchi696 said:

All I know is that Janet Jackson, Usher, and Beyonce have nothing in their roots but love of money. Beyonce would sell her mother for $10, and Janet put out a duet with Cliff Richard. Soul music, here we come!



lol
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Reply #96 posted 02/21/05 6:47am

GrayKing

avatar

Janfriend said:

GrayKing said:

Janfriend said:

No one said anything about singing soul songs soulfully




It does have to be the only thing you do

i mean, Prince put out Kamasutra and a lot of rock songs, but i'm not going to tell you that he's not an r&b artist because of those things. likewise, i'm not going to tell you he's not a rock artist just because he's done r&b numbers.

soul songs sung soulfully (a la some of George Michael's work) = soul.


Prince isn't an r&b artist. He isn't a pop or rock artist either. You can't put him into a category, therefore you cannot say he is any of those. George does pop with r&b influences some of the time. He is not a soul singer

I'm getting the feeling that you think r&b and soul are the same and it's not
[Edited 2/20/05 2:21am]



i pity the ignorant, narrow world in which you live where people can only be defined by one thing and can be nothing more. and where only certain types of people are allowed to do certain types of music.









not to mention where they adore "artists" like Creed, limp bizkit, Ricky Martin, Maroon 5, Gavin DeGraw, and JoJo lol
"Awards are like hemorrhoids. Sooner or later, every asshole gets one."
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Reply #97 posted 02/22/05 2:10am

DavidEye

Axchi696 said:

Janet Jackson once gave Oprah an interview where she was bawling because "the teacher didn't call on her in class because her family was wealthy/famous".



I remember that interview.It was when she was going through her "Poor pitiful me" phase in the late 90s lol

Michael is constantly in that phase as well.
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Reply #98 posted 02/22/05 2:14am

thesexofit

avatar

DavidEye said:

Axchi696 said:

Janet Jackson once gave Oprah an interview where she was bawling because "the teacher didn't call on her in class because her family was wealthy/famous".



I remember that interview.It was when she was going through her "Poor pitiful me" phase in the late 90s lol

Michael is constantly in that phase as well.


Yeah I hate that side of Mike too.
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Reply #99 posted 02/22/05 2:24am

Janfriend

GrayKing said:

Janfriend said:



Prince isn't an r&b artist. He isn't a pop or rock artist either. You can't put him into a category, therefore you cannot say he is any of those. George does pop with r&b influences some of the time. He is not a soul singer

I'm getting the feeling that you think r&b and soul are the same and it's not
[Edited 2/20/05 2:21am]



i pity the ignorant, narrow world in which you live where people can only be defined by one thing and can be nothing more. and where only certain types of people are allowed to do certain types of music.


Oh wow. How easy it is for you to throw out insults over something you don't understand. I never once said people can ony be defined by one thing and nothing more, but then it's obvious you didn't understand any of my posts.The point is:

1. There is some validity in the anger some people felt about this artist's album being included in a soul music category, especially when it wasn't a soul album. Most of it stems from the racial history of the music business

2. The definition of soul music is clearly not understood by some people here

3. Anyone, who wants to, can sing a soul song here or there. It doesn't then make them a soul singer. George is not one. Plain and simple

Sorry if that wasn't clear
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Reply #100 posted 02/22/05 7:07am

GrayKing

avatar

Janfriend said:

GrayKing said:




i pity the ignorant, narrow world in which you live where people can only be defined by one thing and can be nothing more. and where only certain types of people are allowed to do certain types of music.


Oh wow. How easy it is for you to throw out insults over something you don't understand.



[flame snipped -Tom]
"Awards are like hemorrhoids. Sooner or later, every asshole gets one."
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Reply #101 posted 02/22/05 9:29pm

Supernova

avatar

Janfriend said:

Chico319 said:




Good comeback! nod















giggle



No, really,it's not. Soul music is about love and relationships. Blues music is about hardship.


It encompasses more than that. R&B is usually about love and relationships, Soul is a different animal.
This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes.
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Reply #102 posted 02/22/05 9:53pm

Supernova

avatar

BRO915 said:

[b]I rememeber this back in 1989. It caused" a little controversy". George 's r&b side to me(like Average White Band) is authentic which is why I along with many other brothers and sistas in MY community didn't sweat it too much. Now if Rick Ashley's album would have been nominated and won biggrin ..... ,

I feel ya. nod
This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes.
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Reply #103 posted 02/23/05 12:36am

Janfriend

Supernova said:

Janfriend said:




No, really,it's not. Soul music is about love and relationships. Blues music is about hardship.


It encompasses more than that. R&B is usually about love and relationships, Soul is a different animal.


Oh,I know. I was just mentioning the simple difference between blues and soul
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Reply #104 posted 02/23/05 12:42am

ehuffnsd

avatar

GrayKing said:

Janfriend said:



Oh wow. How easy it is for you to throw out insults over something you don't understand.



[flame snipped -Tom]



ditto
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #105 posted 02/23/05 12:51am

Janfriend

GrayKing said:

Janfriend said:



Oh wow. How easy it is for you to throw out insults over something you don't understand.



What's to misunderstand? You're ignorant and narrow-minded. I caught on to that [flame snipped - Tom]



You know what? You're going too far. Not once did I insult you or call you "stupid" or "ignorant" or "narrow-minded" simply because you did not understand my point of view. I'm sorry if you can't be an adult and have a disagreement with dignity. You have nothing else to come up with so it makes you better to discount someone else's opinions neutral If you are incapable of posting without insulting someone personally, then you shouldn't be posting at all
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Reply #106 posted 02/23/05 12:56am

Janfriend

ehuffnsd said:

GrayKing said:




[flame snipped - Tom]



ditto


ditto? ditto? What did I discuss with YOU on this thread?!
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Reply #107 posted 02/23/05 4:30am

GrayKing

avatar

Janfriend said:

GrayKing said:




[Flame snipped -Tom]



You know what? You're going too far. Not once did I insult you or call you "stupid" or "ignorant" or "narrow-minded" simply because you did not understand my point of view. I'm sorry if you can't be an adult and have a disagreement with dignity. You have nothing else to come up with so it makes you better to discount someone else's opinions neutral If you are incapable of posting without insulting someone personally, then you shouldn't be posting at all



[flame snipped - Tom]
"Awards are like hemorrhoids. Sooner or later, every asshole gets one."
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Reply #108 posted 02/23/05 4:41am

Cloudbuster

avatar

Janfriend said:

See the whole "moan and wail" comment has nothing to do with having soul. You have a different perception of what having soul is. Usher, Janet, Jody, and Beyonce have soul



confuse Janet has one of the weakest voices in the pop mainstream that I've ever heard along with Maddy & Kylie and co. I'm not dissing her because I think she's a good pop star. But a soulful singer? Not a chance.
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Reply #109 posted 02/23/05 4:52am

VoicesCarry

Cloudbuster said:

Janfriend said:

See the whole "moan and wail" comment has nothing to do with having soul. You have a different perception of what having soul is. Usher, Janet, Jody, and Beyonce have soul



confuse Janet has one of the weakest voices in the pop mainstream that I've ever heard along with Maddy & Kylie and co. I'm not dissing her because I think she's a good pop star. But a soulful singer? Not a chance.


Agreed. The only one who remotely has soul from that list is Jody Watley. Beyonce sounds like she could develop it judging from "Me Myself And I" but that's the only indication I've gotten from her.
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Reply #110 posted 02/23/05 4:53am

Cloudbuster

avatar

Janfriend said:

2. The definition of soul music is clearly not understood by some people here


You included, it seems. lol

3. Anyone, who wants to, can sing a soul song here or there. It doesn't then make them a soul singer. George is not one. Plain and simple


Sorry, but George is far more soulful than Janet could ever dream of being.

Soul is about connecting with the spirit of the song and portraying the emotion of what the lyrics are saying and getting the listener to believe it. Janet does not have that ability as her voice is flat, not to mention twee. George Michael does have that ability.


.
[Edited 2/23/05 4:54am]
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Reply #111 posted 02/23/05 5:16am

Cloudbuster

avatar

VoicesCarry said:

Agreed. The only one who remotely has soul from that list is Jody Watley. Beyonce sounds like she could develop it judging from "Me Myself And I" but that's the only indication I've gotten from her.


nod
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Reply #112 posted 02/23/05 5:17am

DavidEye

Cloudbuster said:

Janfriend said:

2. The definition of soul music is clearly not understood by some people here


You included, it seems. lol

3. Anyone, who wants to, can sing a soul song here or there. It doesn't then make them a soul singer. George is not one. Plain and simple


Sorry, but George is far more soulful than Janet could ever dream of being.

Soul is about connecting with the spirit of the song and portraying the emotion of what the lyrics are saying and getting the listener to believe it. Janet does not have that ability as her voice is flat, not to mention twee. George Michael does have that ability.



No suprises there.We already know that Janet can't sing.And of course,we all know that George Michael can.But are you basically saying that soul is really just about having a strong voice?


lol just trying to see if I understand what this argument is really about
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Reply #113 posted 02/23/05 5:21am

Cloudbuster

avatar

DavidEye said:

Cloudbuster said:



Sorry, but George is far more soulful than Janet could ever dream of being.

Soul is about connecting with the spirit of the song and portraying the emotion of what the lyrics are saying and getting the listener to believe it*. Janet does not have that ability as her voice is flat, not to mention twee. George Michael does have that ability.



No suprises there.We already know that Janet can't sing.And of course,we all know that George Michael can.But are you basically saying that soul is really just about having a strong voice?


lol just trying to see if I understand what this argument is really about


lol Did you even read what I said? Take another look.* wink
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Reply #114 posted 02/23/05 5:25am

DavidEye

I read what you wrote,but I think Janfriend and others have a different definition of what "soul music" really is.Just trying to sort out the different opinions,lol.
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Reply #115 posted 02/23/05 5:29am

Cloudbuster

avatar

DavidEye said:

I read what you wrote,but I think Janfriend and others have a different definition of what "soul music" really is.Just trying to sort out the different opinions,lol.


Well, no disrespect to Janfriend and co, but I think their definition of what makes one a soul singer is way off the mark. Just my opinion, of course. smile
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Reply #116 posted 02/23/05 5:29am

VoicesCarry

DavidEye said:

I read what you wrote,but I think Janfriend and others have a different definition of what "soul music" really is.Just trying to sort out the different opinions,lol.


I'll make it simple for you.

Janfriend's definition: Black people have soul. White people do not.

Is that clear?
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Reply #117 posted 02/23/05 5:32am

DavidEye

Y'all better watch it! Janfriend's gonna come back her and kick yo asses lol


This thread will probably be locked soon anyway,huh?
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Reply #118 posted 02/23/05 5:33am

VoicesCarry

DavidEye said:

Y'all better watch it! Janfriend's gonna come back her and kick yo asses lol


This thread will probably be locked soon anyway,huh?


Probably. That condensed Janfriend definition has already been stated in this thread, anyway.
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Reply #119 posted 02/23/05 8:13am

LightOfArt

This thread is hilarius lol lol I was wondering why it is still on first page
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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > american music awards......blacks boycott George Michael