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Thread started 05/03/19 7:50am

lurker316

posthumous releases from cassette tapes

Why have all the posthumas releases so far been from cassette tapes? Why have they not used the master tapes?
.
Could it be they can't find the masters? Or maybe the masters are in serious need of restoration and they didn't want to wait?

.

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Reply #1 posted 05/03/19 8:03am

savagedreams

lurker316 said:

Why have all the posthumas releases so far been from cassette tapes? Why have they not used the master tapes?
.
Could it be they can't find the masters? Or maybe the masters are in serious need of restoration and they didn't want to wait?

.

.

if youre refering to piano and a microphone, its because thats how it was recorded. what other releases are you refering too?

[Edited 5/3/19 8:03am]

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Reply #2 posted 05/03/19 8:04am

leadline

avatar

lurker316 said:

Why have all the posthumas releases so far been from cassette tapes? Why have they not used the master tapes?
.
Could it be they can't find the masters? Or maybe the masters are in serious need of restoration and they didn't want to wait?

.


The source for piano and mic 83 I believe was a cassette player that he had on the piano. There are probably hundreds if not thousands of cassette sessions just like what was released to us as he was reported to sit down and play like this on a daily basis. And we all know Prince literally recorded everything he did, regardless of intent to ever release or not.

Originals will surely be from the master tapes. I can't speak for PR Deluxe vault stuff, cause that all sounds great to me, except for Wonderful Ass, where the highs are in the stratosphere. But I would think those are from master tapes as well, and just mixed poorly in a few cases after the fact.

"You always get the dream that you deserve, from what you value the most" -Prince 2013
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Reply #3 posted 05/03/19 8:24am

lurker316

.

In several of the other threads Kares and a couple other posters insist that the disc of vault songs on PR Delux and Moonbeam levels were from cassettes, not the masters.

.

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Reply #4 posted 05/03/19 8:29am

leadline

avatar

lurker316 said:

.

In several of the other threads Kares and a couple other posters insist that the disc of vault songs on PR Delux and Moonbeam levels were from cassettes, not the masters.

.


Interesting, do you recall what the evidence was that they presented that led them to this conclusion? No big deal if you don't know, I will try to find the posts.

[Edited 5/3/19 8:29am]

"You always get the dream that you deserve, from what you value the most" -Prince 2013
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Reply #5 posted 05/03/19 8:42am

OperatingTheta
n

avatar

lurker316 said:

.


In several of the other threads Kares and a couple other posters insist that the disc of vault songs on PR Delux and Moonbeam levels were from cassettes, not the masters.


.



Potentially those songs were culled from the Warner Bros vault, not Prince's. At least that is the kind of conjecture I've heard and it appears to be of some merit.
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Reply #6 posted 05/03/19 9:33am

Romeoblu

Whatever, the music has been great and sounds pretty damn good to me.
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Reply #7 posted 05/03/19 11:44am

jjam

I would have said that it indicates there being an Estate related issue with regards to anything from the actual Prince vault being released, but then Nothing Compares 2 U was a proper mixdown from the multitracks, wasn't it?

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Reply #8 posted 05/03/19 12:13pm

jfenster

how come some releases r not from the vault and some r......why arent they all from the vault ...isnt NCTU + video footage from vault??? so does it mean this new cd WILL have THAT (NCTU)

sound ?????

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Reply #9 posted 05/03/19 12:21pm

Kares

avatar

All posthumus releases (Moonbeam Levels, PR Deluxe outtakes, P&AM83 and partially NC2U) were sourced from cassettes, for various reasons:
.

– Moonbeam Levels and the PR Deluxe outtakes were produced when Warner didn't yet have access to Paisley's vault tapes, they had to use the cassettes they had.
.

– P&AM was taped on cassette originally, so it is what it is.
.

– PC2U was in part sourced from a cassette copy of the mixdown tape that had Prince's vocals, and that was mixed with parts of the multitrack. Why they didn't use the 1/4" mixdown tape with Prince's vocals I don't know. Perhaps they couldn't find it yet, but it must be there.
.

– The Versace Experience tape was apparently not only sourced from a cassette, but most probably it was sourced from the mass-produced cassette, which was manufactured using high-speed dubbing. I don't have this RSD-release so I'm not 100% on this one, but judging from the several reports of poor audio quality, that is what must've happened. This is a new low: producing a release from a high-speed dubbed cassette... instead of finding the actual master tape in the vault... But I guess as it was only a limited, RSD-release, they really didn't care...

.

[Edited 5/4/19 0:38am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
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Reply #10 posted 05/03/19 12:34pm

jfenster

Kares said:

All posthumus releases (Moonbeam Levels, PR Deluxe outtakes, P&AM83 and partially NC2U) were sourced from cassettes, for various reasons:
– Moonbeam Levels and the PR Deluxe outtakes were produced when Warner didn't yet have access to Paisley's vault tapes, they had to use the cassettes they had.
– P&AM was taped on cassette originally, so it is what it is.
– PC2U was in part sourced from a cassette copy of the mixdown tape that had Prince's vocals, and that was mixed with parts of the multitrack. Why they didn't use the 1/4" mixdown tape with Prince's vocals I don't know. Perhaps they couldn't find it yet, but it must be there.

but they got that rehearsal footage from the vault.....why not the music

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Reply #11 posted 05/03/19 12:42pm

Kares

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jfenster said:

Kares said:

All posthumus releases (Moonbeam Levels, PR Deluxe outtakes, P&AM83 and partially NC2U) were sourced from cassettes, for various reasons:
– Moonbeam Levels and the PR Deluxe outtakes were produced when Warner didn't yet have access to Paisley's vault tapes, they had to use the cassettes they had.
– P&AM was taped on cassette originally, so it is what it is.
– PC2U was in part sourced from a cassette copy of the mixdown tape that had Prince's vocals, and that was mixed with parts of the multitrack. Why they didn't use the 1/4" mixdown tape with Prince's vocals I don't know. Perhaps they couldn't find it yet, but it must be there.

but they got that rehearsal footage from the vault.....why not the music

.
NC2U did come from the vault, but the original multitrack tape doesn't have Prince's vocals anymore, he taped over it. The NC2U release was therefore mixed from the multitracks and from a cassette copy of a mixdown tape that still had Prince's vocals.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
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Reply #12 posted 05/03/19 6:07pm

PurpleMusic768
9

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Only thing released (as of May 3rd) from multitracks has been NC2U... And they even managed to fuck that up by messing with the original mix he did. To the others, the song did come from his original 2-inch tape in the vault...
Purple Rain Deluxe was riddled with collector tagged/watermarked tracks from cassettes (save for 1 or 2 on there)...
usually known as "Leaped7689"
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Reply #13 posted 05/04/19 12:22am

Kares

avatar

PurpleMusic7689 said:

Only thing released (as of May 3rd) from multitracks has been NC2U... And they even managed to fuck that up by messing with the original mix he did. To the others, the song did come from his original 2-inch tape in the vault...

.
Only partially. His vocal version didn't come from the multitrack. See my post above.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
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Reply #14 posted 05/04/19 4:42am

KoolEaze

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PurpleMusic7689 said:

Only thing released (as of May 3rd) from multitracks has been NC2U... And they even managed to fuck that up by messing with the original mix he did. To the others, the song did come from his original 2-inch tape in the vault... Purple Rain Deluxe was riddled with collector tagged/watermarked tracks from cassettes (save for 1 or 2 on there)...

eek

Really?

Does this mean that WB used material from collectors?

I didn´t even notice the tags or watermarks, but then again I haven´t listened to that release on headphones yet.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"




http://kooleasehvac.com/
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Reply #15 posted 05/04/19 4:54am

fabriziovenera
ndi

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PurpleMusic7689 said:

Purple Rain Deluxe was riddled with collector tagged/watermarked tracks from cassettes (save for 1 or 2 on there)...

.

Have you some documentation about this statement?

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Reply #16 posted 05/05/19 12:49pm

PurpleMusic768
9

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fabriziovenerandi said:



PurpleMusic7689 said:


Purple Rain Deluxe was riddled with collector tagged/watermarked tracks from cassettes (save for 1 or 2 on there)...

.


Have you some documentation about this statement?


Don't need documentation, "Velvet Kitty Cat" and others are right there as proof...
usually known as "Leaped7689"
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Reply #17 posted 05/05/19 12:49pm

PurpleMusic768
9

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KoolEaze said:



PurpleMusic7689 said:


Only thing released (as of May 3rd) from multitracks has been NC2U... And they even managed to fuck that up by messing with the original mix he did. To the others, the song did come from his original 2-inch tape in the vault... Purple Rain Deluxe was riddled with collector tagged/watermarked tracks from cassettes (save for 1 or 2 on there)...

eek


Really?


Does this mean that WB used material from collectors?


I didn´t even notice the tags or watermarks, but then again I haven´t listened to that release on headphones yet.


Some certain tracks were watermarked in ways you're not supposed to know about...
usually known as "Leaped7689"
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Reply #18 posted 05/05/19 1:44pm

lurker316

PurpleMusic7689 said:

KoolEaze said:

eek

Really?

Does this mean that WB used material from collectors?

I didn´t even notice the tags or watermarks, but then again I haven´t listened to that release on headphones yet.

Some certain tracks were watermarked in ways you're not supposed to know about...

.

What does it mean to "watermark" a track?

.

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Reply #19 posted 05/05/19 1:53pm

PurpleMusic768
9

avatar

lurker316 said:



PurpleMusic7689 said:


KoolEaze said:


eek


Really?


Does this mean that WB used material from collectors?


I didn´t even notice the tags or watermarks, but then again I haven´t listened to that release on headphones yet.



Some certain tracks were watermarked in ways you're not supposed to know about...

.


What does it mean to "watermark" a track?


.



Degrading sound quality or adding defects to it to identify it as a certain version, usually done in trading...
usually known as "Leaped7689"
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Reply #20 posted 05/06/19 9:07am

databank

avatar

PurpleMusic7689 said:

KoolEaze said:

eek

Really?

Does this mean that WB used material from collectors?

I didn´t even notice the tags or watermarks, but then again I haven´t listened to that release on headphones yet.

Some certain tracks were watermarked in ways you're not supposed to know about...

I guess now it's OK to tell us exactly which tracks and how?

Supposedly those tapes came from WB not collectors. Now I don't know, that's a first for me, but if you know something for a fact you can give us details wink

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #21 posted 05/06/19 9:21am

fabriziovenera
ndi

avatar

PurpleMusic7689 said:

KoolEaze said:

eek

Really?

Does this mean that WB used material from collectors?

I didn´t even notice the tags or watermarks, but then again I haven´t listened to that release on headphones yet.

Some certain tracks were watermarked in ways you're not supposed to know about...

.

We are here to learn: can you provide some reliable example?

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Reply #22 posted 05/06/19 10:29am

KoolEaze

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fabriziovenerandi said:

PurpleMusic7689 said:

KoolEaze said: Some certain tracks were watermarked in ways you're not supposed to know about...

.

We are here to learn: can you provide some reliable example?

Well, he mentioned Velvet Kitty Cat as an example in his post above when I asked him.

I doubt that WB would rely on collectors/bootleggers but I don´t know enough about these things and after seeing what they did with Moonbeam Levels I would not really be surprised.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"




http://kooleasehvac.com/
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Reply #23 posted 05/06/19 10:33am

Se7en

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Personally, I don't much mind if they're sourced from cassette tapes IF they sound good.

Examples of what I consider to be fully acceptable in the recent releases are the vault disc from PR: Deluxe and NC2U (if that was in fact partially from a cassette).

I really, really don't like the hiss that's on Piano & A Microphone 1983. I get trying to maintain the integrity of the original recording, but I can't believe fixing a hiss would deter anyone.

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Reply #24 posted 05/06/19 10:43am

leadline

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Se7en said:

Personally, I don't much mind if they're sourced from cassette tapes IF they sound good.

Examples of what I consider to be fully acceptable in the recent releases are the vault disc from PR: Deluxe and NC2U (if that was in fact partially from a cassette).

I really, really don't like the hiss that's on Piano & A Microphone 1983. I get trying to maintain the integrity of the original recording, but I can't believe fixing a hiss would deter anyone.


I fixed the hiss the first day I got it, maybe most aren't aware, but even with the cheapest programs out there, hiss can be removed without sacrifing any of the fidelity of the recording, or, causing the hiss reduction sound dropouts and muddyness inherent of DBX.




[Edited 5/6/19 10:56am]

"You always get the dream that you deserve, from what you value the most" -Prince 2013
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Reply #25 posted 05/06/19 11:00am

fabriziovenera
ndi

avatar

KoolEaze said:

fabriziovenerandi said:

.

We are here to learn: can you provide some reliable example?

Well, he mentioned Velvet Kitty Cat as an example in his post above when I asked him.

.

Yes, but what watermark from what collector?

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Reply #26 posted 05/06/19 11:19am

databank

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fabriziovenerandi said:

KoolEaze said:

Well, he mentioned Velvet Kitty Cat as an example in his post above when I asked him.

.

Yes, but what watermark from what collector?

I don't think we'll go as far as naming collectors wink

But, like you, I would like to have more details about the watermarks and tags that may have been identified. WB supposedly has a decent a vault of unreleased Prince cassettes, so I'm not sure why they'd use anything from collectors or bootlegs.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #27 posted 05/06/19 11:56am

lurker316

Se7en said:

Personally, I don't much mind if they're sourced from cassette tapes IF they sound good.

Examples of what I consider to be fully acceptable in the recent releases are the vault disc from PR: Deluxe and NC2U (if that was in fact partially from a cassette).

I really, really don't like the hiss that's on Piano & A Microphone 1983. I get trying to maintain the integrity of the original recording, but I can't believe fixing a hiss would deter anyone.

.

I am no audiophile and have a very unsophisticated ear, but even to me PR Deluxe didn't sound good. My bootleg version of Dance Electric is much better. My bootleg version of CB Hallway Speech is slightly better.

.

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Reply #28 posted 05/06/19 12:29pm

fabriziovenera
ndi

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databank said:

But, like you, I would like to have more details about the watermarks and tags that may have been identified. WB supposedly has a decent a vault of unreleased Prince cassettes, so I'm not sure why they'd use anything from collectors or bootlegs.

.

+1

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Reply #29 posted 05/06/19 3:00pm

PurpleMusic768
9

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databank said:



fabriziovenerandi said:




KoolEaze said:



Well, he mentioned Velvet Kitty Cat as an example in his post above when I asked him.




.


Yes, but what watermark from what collector?



I don't think we'll go as far as naming collectors wink


But, like you, I would like to have more details about the watermarks and tags that may have been identified. WB supposedly has a decent a vault of unreleased Prince cassettes, so I'm not sure why they'd use anything from collectors or bootlegs.


It's lossy sourced and I believe that specific track originally had fake noise and a sort of "high speed dub" effect on it.
usually known as "Leaped7689"
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