laytonian said:

laytonian said:

im not so sure it has been sold yet, they just agreed upon the number of houses to be built, they even talked about finding another developer if the council could not agree with Lennar. One step closer to getting the estate closed.

Where is Margi?

I need answers.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

2004Fan said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Where is Margi?

I need answers.

No disrespect to Margi but if you're thinking of the LLC, just search LLC in the Google Search (upper right corner). You should find something in one of the Estate threads. Remember Rodney Dixon? There were some docs annexed to his filing.

Thanks! I know that ...but Margi is making statements that indicate a whole new set of circumstances.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Where is Margi?

I need answers.

muchtoofast said:

As the thread was locked can we continue the discussion here.

Prince's future estate releases under Troy Carter ? - do we trust his judgement?

I haven't been following this particular case closely; though I work in estates and trusts, so this topic is interesting. Prince passed on April 21, 2016. That means his estate tax returns were due on January 21, 2017. In an estate of this complexity, his estate tax return was almost certainly put on extension - making it due on July 21, 2017. An estate tax return simply conveys the estate's belief of the value of the estate and the attendant estate taxes due. The IRS will review and determine if they agree with the amounts as reported or they will audit the return. In my experience, it takes the IRS 9 months to a year to respond to the return and let you know if they agree or if they are auditing. So that would put an IRS response to the return out to July 21, 2018-ish. That response was likely - welcome to an audit.

In an estate of this complexity with assets that aren't easily valued (for example - intellectual property; as opposed to stocks that trade on a public open market), I almost guarantee that his estate tax return is in the midst of audit and that there will be some disagreement between the estate and the IRS as to the value of the estate and the amount of estate taxes due. The Michael Jackson estate is a prime example of how that disagreement can reach astomonomical proportions. Given that the IRS is not known to act at the speed of light, my guess is this is still in the audit process. No responsible fiduciary would make distributions in this case until the amount of estate taxes due has been finalized with the IRS. The heirs are entitled to what is left AFTER Uncle Sam gets his share. Until you know Uncle Sam's share, you can't know how much is left to distribute. In my business, once you make a distribution to an heir, you should kiss it goodbye. You should never plan on getting funds back if you later find out the tax bill was larger than you estimated. So the bank would personally be on the hook for any shortage. A bank is never going to put itself at risk in that way.

Also very difficult to believe the claims that the estate is going bankrupt. Banks are notoriously conservative fiduciaries. I'm also guessing this a supervised estate. It would be shocking if between a conservative bank and a judge supervising it, that they would let this estate anywhere near insolvency. Sounds like there are serious communication issues.

Lynnie53 said:

I haven't been following this particular case closely; though I work in estates and trusts, so this topic is interesting. Prince passed on April 21, 2016. That means his estate tax returns were due on January 21, 2017. In an estate of this complexity, his estate tax return was almost certainly put on extension - making it due on July 21, 2017. An estate tax return simply conveys the estate's belief of the value of the estate and the attendant estate taxes due. The IRS will review and determine if they agree with the amounts as reported or they will audit the return. In my experience, it takes the IRS 9 months to a year to respond to the return and let you know if they agree or if they are auditing. So that would put an IRS response to the return out to July 21, 2018-ish. That response was likely - welcome to an audit.

In an estate of this complexity with assets that aren't easily valued (for example - intellectual property; as opposed to stocks that trade on a public open market), I almost guarantee that his estate tax return is in the midst of audit and that there will be some disagreement between the estate and the IRS as to the value of the estate and the amount of estate taxes due. The Michael Jackson estate is a prime example of how that disagreement can reach astomonomical proportions. Given that the IRS is not known to act at the speed of light, my guess is this is still in the audit process. No responsible fiduciary would make distributions in this case until the amount of estate taxes due has been finalized with the IRS. The heirs are entitled to what is left AFTER Uncle Sam gets his share. Until you know Uncle Sam's share, you can't know how much is left to distribute. In my business, once you make a distribution to an heir, you should kiss it goodbye. You should never plan on getting funds back if you later find out the tax bill was larger than you estimated. So the bank would personally be on the hook for any shortage. A bank is never going to put itself at risk in that way.

Also very difficult to believe the claims that the estate is going bankrupt. Banks are notoriously conservative fiduciaries. I'm also guessing this a supervised estate. It would be shocking if between a conservative bank and a judge supervising it, that they would let this estate anywhere near insolvency. Sounds like there are serious communication issues.

All the above is a true statement.

I think the court documents show they have been making payments and $30+ mil left to pay on the Estate taxes.

Lynnie53 said:

I haven't been following this particular case closely; though I work in estates and trusts, so this topic is interesting. Prince passed on April 21, 2016. That means his estate tax returns were due on January 21, 2017. In an estate of this complexity, his estate tax return was almost certainly put on extension - making it due on July 21, 2017. An estate tax return simply conveys the estate's belief of the value of the estate and the attendant estate taxes due. The IRS will review and determine if they agree with the amounts as reported or they will audit the return. In my experience, it takes the IRS 9 months to a year to respond to the return and let you know if they agree or if they are auditing. So that would put an IRS response to the return out to July 21, 2018-ish. That response was likely - welcome to an audit.

In an estate of this complexity with assets that aren't easily valued (for example - intellectual property; as opposed to stocks that trade on a public open market), I almost guarantee that his estate tax return is in the midst of audit and that there will be some disagreement between the estate and the IRS as to the value of the estate and the amount of estate taxes due. The Michael Jackson estate is a prime example of how that disagreement can reach astomonomical proportions. Given that the IRS is not known to act at the speed of light, my guess is this is still in the audit process. No responsible fiduciary would make distributions in this case until the amount of estate taxes due has been finalized with the IRS. The heirs are entitled to what is left AFTER Uncle Sam gets his share. Until you know Uncle Sam's share, you can't know how much is left to distribute. In my business, once you make a distribution to an heir, you should kiss it goodbye. You should never plan on getting funds back if you later find out the tax bill was larger than you estimated. So the bank would personally be on the hook for any shortage. A bank is never going to put itself at risk in that way.

Also very difficult to believe the claims that the estate is going bankrupt. Banks are notoriously conservative fiduciaries. I'm also guessing this a supervised estate. It would be shocking if between a conservative bank and a judge supervising it, that they would let this estate anywhere near insolvency. Sounds like there are serious communication issues.

Thank goodness someone who actually works in and has knowledge of the field has spoken. Please go to all the FB Prince groups and let them know this info. They are panicking due to Sharon's misinformation about these things. She needs to have a seat.

rogifan said:

Sharon needs to STFU already. EXCLUSIVE: Prince Heir Sharon Nelson Vows To Protect Her Brother’s Legacy

.
Behave. She's his sister and she does have several very valid points.

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

As the thread was locked can we continue the discussion here.

Prince's future estate releases under Troy Carter ? - do we trust his judgement?

Hmmm, apprecaite he has been on the scene for a couple of years now. However reading about his more recent history ie lawsuits, GAGA & him falling out etc I wonder again whether the estate has miscalulated with this guy? I am sure I read somewhere today that he has never actually been to a prince gig!

Strikes me another corporate record bod out to make some quick $?..i'd love to know what his fees are!

Anyways, do we trust his judgement?..i damn sure don't!

id like to know the thought process of these releases

jfenster said:

jfenster said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

As the thread was locked can we continue the discussion here.

Prince's future estate releases under Troy Carter ? - do we trust his judgement?

Hmmm, apprecaite he has been on the scene for a couple of years now. However reading about his more recent history ie lawsuits, GAGA & him falling out etc I wonder again whether the estate has miscalulated with this guy? I am sure I read somewhere today that he has never actually been to a prince gig!

Strikes me another corporate record bod out to make some quick $?..i'd love to know what his fees are!

Anyways, do we trust his judgement?..i damn sure don't!

id like to know the thought process of these releases

I'd do it for $50,000 a year. However, I am sure that a lot of people on here would be really really upset in 10 years, because I would have released multiple 10 disc box sets with each one having a 2cd sampler set for the less interested. And I'm also sure that having over 100 concerts on Blu Ray and DVD instead of the DVD only releases we have been getting would upset a bunch of fans. Also, I am certain that me putting 70-79 minutes on each disc would TREMENDOUSLY upset those happy with 34 minute discs.

I know my vast knowledge of Prince's career, and having grown up with every bootleg I can get my hand on would upset the powers that be. Better put something so important in the hands

of someone who had never been to a Prince concert. Or maybe get Londell McMuffin to be in

charge with it all...not me, NEVER A DIE HARD FAN...none of us would have any clue

what a die hard fan would want, right?

Here is an example of the HORRIBLE releases I would suggest

Studio Material (1976-1980) 10 Discs for $85, or the 2 disc set for $13

(1981-1984), (1985-1987), (1988-1992), etc...

Live CD/ Blu Ray Box Sets, and a few individual ones.

But, I know a TREMENDOUS amount of fans want to wait 2-3 years to get a lot less music. But, no matter what happens, the profit potential is probably mostly melted away. Prince himself sat on a lot of this too long, and now, those in control of what happens (and I mean everyone: Estate,

Sony, Warners, Lawyers, etc...) Want so much money they are going to fight until nothing is left,

and us fans become the big losers.

Kares said:

rogifan said:

Sharon needs to STFU already. EXCLUSIVE: Prince Heir Sharon Nelson Vows To Protect Her Brother’s Legacy

.
Behave. She's his sister and she does have several very valid points.

All due respect Kares, but no she does not. She's ticked off because the judge called her and the others out for what they did in defiance of the court and he denied her motion to get Comerica booted because she doesn't have a good reason. Sharon is doing nothing but whining because she didn't get her way and is out there stirring up the fans and getting them angry and pissed off by feeding them misleading info via the media. What she isn't doing is letting everyone know that she, Norrine, and John are responsible for a goodly portion of all those bills and charges that she is complaining about what with the constant delays, motions, bickering, and attorney changes. Every bit of what I've said is there in the court docs, anyone can access and see almost all of it. I'm with Rogi, she needs to stop talking.

Mumio said:

Kares said:

.
Behave. She's his sister and she does have several very valid points.

All due respect Kares, but no she does not. She's ticked off because the judge called her and the others out for what they did in defiance of the court and he denied her motion to get Comerica booted because she doesn't have a good reason. Sharon is doing nothing but whining because she didn't get her way and is out there stirring up the fans and getting them angry and pissed off by feeding them misleading info via the media. What she isn't doing is letting everyone know that she, Norrine, and John are responsible for a goodly portion of all those bills and charges that she is complaining about what with the constant delays, motions, bickering, and attorney changes. Every bit of what I've said is there in the court docs, anyone can access and see almost all of it. I'm with Rogi, she needs to stop talking.

Mumio said:

Kares said:

.
Behave. She's his sister and she does have several very valid points.

All due respect Kares, but no she does not. She's ticked off because the judge called her and the others out for what they did in defiance of the court and he denied her motion to get Comerica booted because she doesn't have a good reason. Sharon is doing nothing but whining because she didn't get her way and is out there stirring up the fans and getting them angry and pissed off by feeding them misleading info via the media. What she isn't doing is letting everyone know that she, Norrine, and John are responsible for a goodly portion of all those bills and charges that she is complaining about what with the constant delays, motions, bickering, and attorney changes. Every bit of what I've said is there in the court docs, anyone can access and see almost all of it. I'm with Rogi, she needs to stop talking.

.
First of all: no need to cuss at her.

Second: she does have several valid points indeed, including her statement that Prince would not have anything to do with this gang of lawyers and bankers.
.
And to attack her for wasting the Estate's money by filing motions etc – well, that's a really low blow, especially when it's coming from Comerica with their huge team of attorneys who don't even pick up their phones without starting the clock first. Like it or not, it is partially her money, it is coming out of the inheritence of the six heirs, while no matter how long the settling of the estate will drag on, Comerica continues to be handsomely rewarded.
There ARE several issues with how they are running the Estate, I disagree with many of their decisions, I have grave concerns about their handling of Prince's legacy (especially "The Vault", which I can only hope means the same to them as it means to me: EVERY SINGLE data-format that could be found at Paisley and any of Prince's other properties; all the tapes, films, cassettes, hard drives, pendrives, optical disks etc... literally everything that can hold even just a fraction of his legacy), I disagree with their choices in human resources, I disagree with how Paisley Park Museum is being run – and I could go on and on: I disagree with almost all of their business decisions.
.

stillwaiting said:

jfenster said:

id like to know the thought process of these releases

I'd do it for $50,000 a year. However, I am sure that a lot of people on here would be really really upset in 10 years, because I would have released multiple 10 disc box sets with each one having a 2cd sampler set for the less interested. And I'm also sure that having over 100 concerts on Blu Ray and DVD instead of the DVD only releases we have been getting would upset a bunch of fans. Also, I am certain that me putting 70-79 minutes on each disc would TREMENDOUSLY upset those happy with 34 minute discs.

I know my vast knowledge of Prince's career, and having grown up with every bootleg I can get my hand on would upset the powers that be. Better put something so important in the hands

of someone who had never been to a Prince concert. Or maybe get Londell McMuffin to be in

charge with it all...not me, NEVER A DIE HARD FAN...none of us would have any clue

what a die hard fan would want, right?

Here is an example of the HORRIBLE releases I would suggest

Studio Material (1976-1980) 10 Discs for $85, or the 2 disc set for $13

(1981-1984), (1985-1987), (1988-1992), etc...

Live CD/ Blu Ray Box Sets, and a few individual ones.

But, I know a TREMENDOUS amount of fans want to wait 2-3 years to get a lot less music. But, no matter what happens, the profit potential is probably mostly melted away. Prince himself sat on a lot of this too long, and now, those in control of what happens (and I mean everyone: Estate,

Sony, Warners, Lawyers, etc...) Want so much money they are going to fight until nothing is left,

and us fans become the big losers.

.

.

Dude. We'd all LOVE to get 10-disc box sets with each disc filled to the rim with pristine quality vault material.
.

Just because I've explained to you that there could be several other explanations and considerations behind a release being relatively short (first of all: an artistic consideration) other than your extremely ignorant and silly remark that the entire music industry is clueless about the capacity of the red book CD, that does not mean that I'd actually prefer to get less material from the vault. I would love to get as much as possible. But I'm also aware that producing releases involves a lot of considerations regarding different matters (eg. costs), and no record company on earth will make you an all-you-can-eat offer just because their vaults are full of unreleased tapes.

.

Your sarcastic remarks above only make yourself look silly and they show very poor communication skills. And you're not the only one here with a vast knowledge of Prince's career.

.

[Edited 5/1/19 6:00am]

Kares said:

rogifan said:

Kares said:

.
Behave. She's his sister and she does have several very valid points.

All she is is stirring the pot. And getting fans needlessly worried with all this bankruptcy talk. Especially when it’s partially because of her the estate is bleeding money.

.

The Estate is bleeding money left and right because it's being mismanaged, because of the series of bad business decisions and because of the lack of a proper release plan that would bring in a healthy revenue stream – not because the heirs filed a few motions at the court.

Kares said:

stillwaiting said:

I'd do it for $50,000 a year. However, I am sure that a lot of people on here would be really really upset in 10 years, because I would have released multiple 10 disc box sets with each one having a 2cd sampler set for the less interested. And I'm also sure that having over 100 concerts on Blu Ray and DVD instead of the DVD only releases we have been getting would upset a bunch of fans. Also, I am certain that me putting 70-79 minutes on each disc would TREMENDOUSLY upset those happy with 34 minute discs.

I know my vast knowledge of Prince's career, and having grown up with every bootleg I can get my hand on would upset the powers that be. Better put something so important in the hands

of someone who had never been to a Prince concert. Or maybe get Londell McMuffin to be in

charge with it all...not me, NEVER A DIE HARD FAN...none of us would have any clue

what a die hard fan would want, right?

Here is an example of the HORRIBLE releases I would suggest

Studio Material (1976-1980) 10 Discs for $85, or the 2 disc set for $13

(1981-1984), (1985-1987), (1988-1992), etc...

Live CD/ Blu Ray Box Sets, and a few individual ones.

But, I know a TREMENDOUS amount of fans want to wait 2-3 years to get a lot less music. But, no matter what happens, the profit potential is probably mostly melted away. Prince himself sat on a lot of this too long, and now, those in control of what happens (and I mean everyone: Estate,

Sony, Warners, Lawyers, etc...) Want so much money they are going to fight until nothing is left,

and us fans become the big losers.

.

.

Dude. Chill. We'd all LOVE to get 10-disc box sets with each disc filled to the rim with pristine quality vault material.
.

Just because I've explained to you that there could be several other explanations and considerations behind a release being relatively short (first of all: an artistic consideration) other than your extremely ignorant and silly remark that the entire music industry is clueless about the capacity of the red book CD, that does not mean that I'd actually prefer to get less material from the vault. I would love to get as much as possible. But I'm also aware that producing releases involves a lot of considerations regarding different matters (eg. costs), and no record company on earth will make you an all-you-can-eat offer just because their vaults are full of unreleased tapes.

.

Your sarcastic remarks above only make yourself look silly and they show very poor communication skills. And you're not the only one here with a vast knowledge of Prince's career.

.

Your opinion is I have poor communication skills. The marketing people have no idea about the redbook standard. They still think a CD single is a viable marketing tool if anyone would buy it. And yes, there are tons on here with rose colored glasses on who think every single thing the estate does is great, and that Warners is perfect, and all is well. I am not that person.

And yes, there are those that would say a 10 disc set would ruin his legacy, and that short releases

are what they want. I simply tell the truth, and yes, my opinions. Those who are willing to open their pockets are getting older, and will die off. Milk us for what we have when we care.

The legal process is almost comical. Everybody thinks this is a cash cow, and can make tons

of money. By the time they sort it out, perhaps the lawyers will be the only ones to profit, and

we become the losers.

[Edited 5/1/19 6:27am]

Kares said:

Your sarcastic remarks above only make yourself look silly and they show very poor communication skills. And you're not the only one here with a vast knowledge of Prince's career.

.

Do not be too harsh on stillwaiting.

The recordcompanies will sell you 25 minute CD's of His Royal Purleness Toilet noises if that was all they could sell you.

And if they wanted, they could dump the digitized masters straight to CD and later do a proper 'remaster' release.

But they do not because they do not like 10-disc sets and think they will nuke the markets, as they thought pre 1995.

The recordpeople are slow, clueless and not capable of maximizing profit for the Estate (or LLC orm whatever) in this. Over time people will forget Prince if there's no 'new' material to hype.

We will not hear most of the Vault in our lifetimes because of this slowness.

.

This will remain my position until their strategy becomes clear. (may take a few years)

Kares said:

Mumio said:

All due respect Kares, but no she does not. She's ticked off because the judge called her and the others out for what they did in defiance of the court and he denied her motion to get Comerica booted because she doesn't have a good reason. Sharon is doing nothing but whining because she didn't get her way and is out there stirring up the fans and getting them angry and pissed off by feeding them misleading info via the media. What she isn't doing is letting everyone know that she, Norrine, and John are responsible for a goodly portion of all those bills and charges that she is complaining about what with the constant delays, motions, bickering, and attorney changes. Every bit of what I've said is there in the court docs, anyone can access and see almost all of it. I'm with Rogi, she needs to stop talking.

.
First of all: no need to cuss at her.

Second: she does have several valid points indeed, including her statement that Prince would not have anything to do with this gang of lawyers and bankers.
.
And to attack her for wasting the Estate's money by filing motions etc – well, that's a really low blow, especially when it's coming from Comerica with their huge team of attorneys who don't even pick up their phones without starting the clock first. Like it or not, it is partially her money, it is coming out of the inheritence of the six heirs, while no matter how long the settling of the estate will drag on, Comerica continues to be handsomely rewarded.
There ARE several issues with how they are running the Estate, I disagree with many of their decisions, I have grave concerns about their handling of Prince's legacy (especially "The Vault", which I can only hope means the same to them as it means to me: EVERY SINGLE data-format that could be found at Paisley and any of Prince's other properties; all the tapes, films, cassettes, hard drives, pendrives, optical disks etc... literally everything that can hold even just a fraction of his legacy), I disagree with their choices in human resources, I disagree with how Paisley Park Museum is being run – and I could go on and on: I disagree with almost all of their business decisions.
.

How much of the court documents have you read? Because your commentary indicates you've read very little about what's going on, especially her particular part in it. And I'm pretty sure that the judge's decisions regarding their numerous motions have been spot on and that is why she gets slapped down. There's no "low blow" happening here, but what IS happening is the truth, even if you don't like it.

Oh, and let me be perfectly clear: I don't care that they inherit the money, they are his relatives and that is the way it should work...I have no issue with that whatsoever. I also don't care if another single thing is ever released from the vault because I believe if Prince really wanted us to have something from it, we'd have it. What I DO care about is that if they are hell-bent on taking their private business to the public/fans "court", that they are honest about what they are saying and not putting just enough info out there to cause more confusion and turmoil, and create division, anger, and unneeded anxiety for the fans. She is not being upfront and people who stay up on the court documents know it. The best part to me though is her acknowledgment that Prince is making them work for it He sure is, he knew how this would go I am not gonna shit-talk the judge's handling of this case because I am not a judge, not a legal eagle in any way, and so not qualified to do so. I'm also not convinced that Comerica isn't handling things well on their part too.

Agree to disagree because this won't go any other way on my part

rogifan said:

All she is is stirring the pot. And getting fans needlessly worried with all this bankruptcy talk. Especially when it’s partially because of her the estate is bleeding money.

Some people get it. It's surprising how many do not

I understand some of Kares' points. Neither the bank, nor the attorneys are involved out of the kindness of their hearts. They are being compensated and their fees given this estate probably are significant and do reduce what each of the heirs ultimately receives. The saving grace is that they have to prove to the Judge the reasonableness of their fees. I'm picturing a Judge in a small mid-western city is not going to let them bill through the roof for this. This isn't New York City or LA. No one is ever going to feel sorry for lawyers and bankers - they are traditionally very unsympathetic characters in a drama. The heirs are probably actually very clever in taking this to the media if they are trying to run them out of town. The board of that bank probably isn't really loving being in the headlines associated with a bankrupt estate. Not a great look for a bank, who also generally don't want to be in the press. Actually surprised the bank signed up for this mess. Looks ridden with risk and liability from the outset. Their fees must be worth it. Judge presiding over this probably also isn't thrilled to be associated with a supposedly bankrupt high profile estate. Some of the statements in that article were non-sensical and betray a significant lack of understanding, so not sure if the heirs are cacluating enough to use the media click bait type stuff on purpose. But it may unintentionally work.

She mentions 40 attorneys, which doesn't make sense to me. Maybe she means all the heirs attorneys, plus those for the estate. The estate will need separate attorneys for the different types of issues. People ask me about all sorts of legal matters just because I'm an attorney. They seem to think an attorney can handle any legal question whatsoever. Not true. We all have our areas of expertise. Someone mentioned land in this case. So right off you know that the estate needs an attorney to handle real estate, the IRS/estate stuff, intellectual property and litigation. No clue what other areas of speciality may be involved. I've also handled many (actually the great majority) of estates where the heirs did not have their own attorneys. The personal representative has a fiduciary responsibility to do what is best for the estate overall and that is no joke. A bank is not going to play around with corporate fiduciary liability. Not sure what happened here to warrant the heirs having so many attorneys. When an heir mentions getting their own counsel, my first thought is - that will be great - if they get someone qualified and an expert in estates. Attorneys can be very helpful in sorting through issues! Too often, though, it would be some "friend of the family" with no relevant expertise. That's when attorneys can make a situation worse and much more costly.

Love to be a fly on the wall in all of this. My practice is traditionally not that interesting to people. But nothing brings out family drama like a death in the family. You take an outsider attorney/bank and put them between the IRS and heirs and its never going to pretty. You are standing in the way of the heirs getting money on the one hand and the IRS on the other. Add in multiple different heirs who didn't know each other and the real fireworks begin. I've been between 3 siblings who grew up together and were ready to physically fight over the contents of a curio cabinet. Then also a family of 5 inheriting millions of dollars each who were the most reasonable and courteous people ever. My sense is that the death only puts a spotlight on issues that existed before. Most people who were reasonable and smart through the estate process, were reasonable, smart and successful before. They don't suddently change their stripes and become idiots on the death of a loved one. The ones who were nasty idiots, financially irresponsible and couldn't get along with others during the estate process had similar issues before the death. And don't get me started on all the "armchair experts". You knew all hell was going to break loose as soon as someone's uncle or friend got involved to share their supposed expertise and insight.