The musical side is the least puzzling thing about him.

The geography is real, but he did try NYC and went to LA to record.

The bigger question is how he was able to do it while adopting extreme gender bender style. Also the fact that he was so damn short and not entirely comfortable with it, but nobody seemed to care, at a time when record labels would pass over talent for dumb crap all the time, shows what a force of nature he was. Also, just getting near a synthesizer or drum machine to learn the equipment was a big deal in that period, and he wasn't rolling in cash so connecting with Chris Moon was key. Not to mention Owen Husney didn't do a hell of a lot of star making after Prince, but that was the right guy for the period they were together. The stars were really aligned.

From very early on he was a kid witha mission. HIs level of self control & determination to succeed & stay in pole position was almost Zen-like!

Amazing example to anyone who wants to succeed in a career or life...BUT at what cost....

poppys said:

benni said:

You take a kid that's hungry, that starts with nothing, and hears music in everything, and you put him in front of a piano, put a guitar in his hands, a pair of drum sticks, and watch what he does. Prince once said in an interview that he heard music all the time. When you have someone that is that artistic, that in tune with their own art, they won't let anything stop them.

But Prince wasn't put in front of a random piano, he didn't start with nothing musically. The piano was there first. Music was in the family, in the bones. Reading music and taking it to another level are not mutually exclusive.

[Edited 3/9/19 19:28pm]

What I mean poppys, is that Prince wanted to succeed. He never wanted to stand outside of another McDonald's looking in. He had that drive to succeed, and the talent. Yes, the piano was there first, but he said he learned it, I believe, when he was locked up in his room for a couple of weeks. He had nothing else to do really, so he taught himself how to play the piano. And while music was in the family, he said once that his mom didn't want him getting into music, afraid he'd be like his dad, and his dad didn't really take the time to teach him.

When you have someone who starts their life with nothing (he said they were poor and couldn't afford a lot) and they have the access to instruments, the raw talent that Prince had, and they have that drive to succeed, a narrow focus, then they won't let anything stop them.

Prince said in an interview there was nothing else that he wanted to do with his life. He spent every moment in school, that he could, in the band room, learning. After schools were spent practicing. Even the friends he chose at that young age were musicians (Andre).

And I never said reading music and taking it to another level were mutually exclusive??

poppys said:

TheEnglishGent said:

benni said:

poppys said:

But Prince wasn't put in front of a random piano, he didn't start with nothing musically. The piano was there first. Music was in the family, in the bones. Reading music and taking it to another level are not mutually exclusive.

[Edited 3/9/19 19:28pm]

What I mean poppys, is that Prince wanted to succeed. He never wanted to stand outside of another McDonald's looking in. He had that drive to succeed, and the talent. Yes, the piano was there first, but he said he learned it, I believe, when he was locked up in his room for a couple of weeks. He had nothing else to do really, so he taught himself how to play the piano. And while music was in the family, he said once that his mom didn't want him getting into music, afraid he'd be like his dad, and his dad didn't really take the time to teach him.

When you have someone who starts their life with nothing (he said they were poor and couldn't afford a lot) and they have the access to instruments, the raw talent that Prince had, and they have that drive to succeed, a narrow focus, then they won't let anything stop them.

Prince said in an interview there was nothing else that he wanted to do with his life. He spent every moment in school, that he could, in the band room, learning. After schools were spent practicing. Even the friends he chose at that young age were musicians (Andre).

And I never said reading music and taking it to another level were mutually exclusive??

Okay. Do you thnk Prince could read music? That's the part of the OP I can't swallow.

poppys said:

benni said:

What I mean poppys, is that Prince wanted to succeed. He never wanted to stand outside of another McDonald's looking in. He had that drive to succeed, and the talent. Yes, the piano was there first, but he said he learned it, I believe, when he was locked up in his room for a couple of weeks. He had nothing else to do really, so he taught himself how to play the piano. And while music was in the family, he said once that his mom didn't want him getting into music, afraid he'd be like his dad, and his dad didn't really take the time to teach him.

When you have someone who starts their life with nothing (he said they were poor and couldn't afford a lot) and they have the access to instruments, the raw talent that Prince had, and they have that drive to succeed, a narrow focus, then they won't let anything stop them.

Prince said in an interview there was nothing else that he wanted to do with his life. He spent every moment in school, that he could, in the band room, learning. After schools were spent practicing. Even the friends he chose at that young age were musicians (Andre).

And I never said reading music and taking it to another level were mutually exclusive??

Okay. Do you thnk Prince could read music? That's the part of the OP I can't swallow.

[2003.10.22] Channel 9 Today

with the NPG, before the Melbourne performance.


At the 2'30" mark -

Interviewer: You don't read music?

Prince: No

Interviewer: Just instinctive?

Prince: Ah, yeah, I would say so - I have a good ...

Maceo Parker (interjecting): Genius, like I said.

Prince: ... I have a good ear

(laughing and turning to Maceo): The pay's the same Maceo.

(credit to langebleu)

http://prince.org/msg/7/446672

His music teacher from middle school said:

Hamilton says Prince was mostly “self-taught,” so the two focused on music theory and learning fun, contemporary songs.

“He was an easy student, he was so eager to learn and it came naturally to him. He could play any instrument, but the song we worked on the most was ‘Stairway to Heaven’ on the piano,” says Hamilton with a laugh. “He loved that one!”


https://people.com/celebr...a-student/

benni said:

His music teacher from middle school said:

Hamilton says Prince was mostly “self-taught,” so the two focused on music theory and learning fun, contemporary songs.

“He was an easy student, he was so eager to learn and it came naturally to him. He could play any instrument, but the song we worked on the most was ‘Stairway to Heaven’ on the piano,” says Hamilton with a laugh. “He loved that one!”


https://people.com/celebr...a-student/

So your answer is no? I think he could.

His father certainly could, being an accomplished musican and bandleader. Maybe his mother too. She was a singer. Again, probably a music/band teacher or family member would know or have known. Wide range of random comments that are not definitive. Reading music is not difficult, even I can do it. I'm not buying that mystique. Doesn't make him less of a phenom to me anyway.

I know a few people that have worked with Prince and even arranged music with him. He would use chord charts to convey the high-level arrangement and then work with people in the band that were more classically trained to notate all the notes in the arrangement (Wendy & Lisa are examples).

There is a huge difference between reading sheet music etc. and understanding chords and structure on a chord chart. So he knew all the chords and knew how to solo in just about any key but never really had to learn how to read sheet music.

So the answer to the question was always i nthe phrasing of the question - "do you read music" Prince equated to "Do you read sheet music" which he does not but he can communicate with musicians because he understands chords, structure, tempo, etc.

He had a lot of help and he wouldn't have been who he ended up without Owen Hussney and the others. Also, LOOKS, talent, and the willpower to work hard. The Beatles said it was easy. If you wanted to "make it" you just have to tirelessly work at it non-stop for years. No time off, no partying, little socializing.

I still say the distinction is being able to hear the music when you look at hte notes on sheet music the way you hear the words when you read them. It's impossible to believe that Prince couldn't look at sheet music and play the note or chord represented on the page. It's trivially easy to learn do that.

He possibly couldn't take sheet music and play the part perfectly the first time they way he likely could if he heard the part. But it's really impossible to think he couldn't look at notes on a page and figure out what to play in what order and after spending some time with it have it sound like it's supposed to.

[Edited 3/11/19 9:55am]

[Edited 3/11/19 9:56am]

Also, to add, to me it's far more impressive to be able to hear something then play it back than it is to read it on sheet music and play it back. How do you hear all of the notes and get them all right? Or to hear a song, then sit down and add a part that the writer didn't know was missing, like he did with Stand Back. Prince was able hear never before recorded muisc in his head, sit down in the studio and turn it into a new song track by track.

[Edited 3/11/19 10:01am]

poppys said:

benni said:

His music teacher from middle school said:

Hamilton says Prince was mostly “self-taught,” so the two focused on music theory and learning fun, contemporary songs.

“He was an easy student, he was so eager to learn and it came naturally to him. He could play any instrument, but the song we worked on the most was ‘Stairway to Heaven’ on the piano,” says Hamilton with a laugh. “He loved that one!”


https://people.com/celebr...a-student/

So your answer is no? I think he could.

His father certainly could, being an accomplished musican and bandleader. Maybe his mother too. She was a singer. Again, probably a music/band teacher or family member would know or have known. Wide range of random comments that are not definitive. Reading music is not difficult, even I can do it. I'm not buying that mystique. Doesn't make him less of a phenom to me anyway.

I don't think he could. He'd have no reason to lie about it, nor would anyone in his camp. His music teacher didn't mention reading music. And his father ccould, but remember his father was gone working all day, then at night he was out at the clubs. He wouldn't have taken the time to teach Prince, and by the time Prince was 12, he was out of that home and living with Andre and his mom. They would not have taught reading music (except for the basics) in elementary school.

In middle school, the teacher doesn't specify that he was actually in band, just that he was his music teacher, and said that Prince was self-taught, so they mostly focused on music theory and learning contemporary music.

There are a lot of music teachers that don't teach students anything but the basics in middle school, unless they are in one of the major band classes learning an instrument. Prince would spend all his time in the music/band room, but that doesn't mean he was necessarily enrolled to learn an instrument.

Even upon his passing, all the pictures that were released of Paisley Park, what was inside, I don't remember once seeing a music sheet anywhere. There was little comments "C Major" or whatever, but no music sheets. You would think if he could read music, and wanted to learn how to cover a song, there'd be some kind of music books around, written music, and there just weren't.

Also, just want to add, there are a lot of rock stars that do not know how to read music. They play by ear, by feel.

benni said:

purplefam99 said:

onlyforaminute said:

think this has been covered ... he couldnt sit in front of a piece of music and play it, something totally new to him .. like a session musician ...all that matters was he was proficent enough to realise his imagination . that was the result of innumerable amount of practice of the process of expression.

if he started hearing music in his head early it is pretty likely he would have done everything to protect this gift .. formalising it would have lessened the unique feeling it gave him ... he had no interest in being taught, he knew the stuff already. look i dunno but that is common in highly creative minds

his creative process was his core, that was him , he may well have started it as a way to ease pain , gain validation or as a long term plan to protect his core , that usually happens in the teen years . after the success of purple rain , which he played a role in (rock god) he had the material means to isolate himself further.

he worked at this daily 24 7 and was self aware enough to know what was happening and the potential of external threat of that level of stardom.....the beast still needs feeding though so you end up staying up late to sate it.

pretty much unique in being able to protect and share ...for a prolonged period

his ability to actualise what his imagination told him ... rare, he had access to many colours, and became confident to the point of colloboration .....to a point

i am hypothesising but i have a similar process/illness/calling .. but without the expressive gift and skill he had ..

dunno

reading music was largely irrelevant to him , his dad could read ,

SirPussalot said:

No, he wasn't Quincy Jones, which I guess is what people really are referring to, as far as level is concerned.

onlyforaminute said:

purplefam99 said:

onlyforaminute said:

No, he wasn't Quincy Jones, which I guess is what people really are referring to, as far as level is concerned.

To me one method isn’t superior to the other. I think the thinking is or has been established by the “establishment” That one is superior. Like when classical is put in front of something All of a sudden it has more credit than something primitive.

I prefer the word organic. And I think the jury is still out on Prince's classical ability, whether or not it was something he practiced just for himself. Granted practice has to be involved.

purplefam99 said:

littlerockjams said:

littlerockjams said: