PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

interesting thing is, once he did have a horn section, the revolution only fell apart a little more, wendy called that an r and b review. The moves to more traditonal black music and even as matt fink said, prince wanted to "hang out with his black buddies" seemed a major component in the frictions in the band.

The horns, I thought, were great. The backup dancer thing...not so much.

the horns were great, some of the riffs they would never work with in my opinion, the simple riffs like 1999 didn't do it for me but his use of them on his newer stuff was fine. So, although the synths took the place of the horn section, they were still synths and used in Prince's idiosyncratic way, when doves cry wouldn't sound all that great on horns. However, one of my favorite versions of Little Red Corvette is a marching band version. depends on the tune.

databank said:

milesb said:

2:12

Could be a synth imitating a horn, but pretty good imitation if it is

The solo? It's a synth, a horn-sounding synth I'll give you that, but not at all a "good" imitation of a horn. I don't want to sound rude or anything, but it beats me how anyone could even consider the possibility of it being a real horn.

I'm pretty sure some people here can even tell you exactly which keyboard produced this sound. Sounds like an Oberheim to me but I'm not expert at all so I'll leave that to the musicians here

its Oberheim 4 voice.except polymoog and minimoog Prince used oberheim synths from 1979 up to 1985 with one exception When Doves Cry synth riff is yamaha dx7

I liked the pre-horns sound he had up until 1986 but I also enjoyed the occasional horn parts during the 1984-85 concerts with Eric Leeds or those Eddie M. parts on record and live and of course the Eric Leeds/Atlanta Bliss combination from Parade until the Lovesexy tour but I´m not really a fan of his later use of big horn sections. And the updated Minneapolis sound (see Mutiny on the Arsenio Hall show) with real horns instead of synths wasn´t really my cup of tea either.

PeteSilas said:

interesting thing is, once he did have a horn section, the revolution only fell apart a little more, wendy called that an r and b review. The moves to more traditonal black music and even as matt fink said, prince wanted to "hang out with his black buddies" seemed a major component in the frictions in the band.

There was nothing 'traditionally black' about anything on the Parade tour. There was nothing 'traditionally black about the music being made in the 1985 or 1986.
the RnB review was more about the focus on the dancing. It was talked about in brief on the Nude tour thread, that if Prince did not focus on the choerography would have have paid more attention to rendering songs, in a more crafted way and/or performed songs that many of us probably wished he did live but did not.

What Matt said was during his time in the NPG 1989-90. Miko Weaver though had similar problems with the new band members.

KoolEaze said:

I liked the pre-horns sound he had up until 1986 but I also enjoyed the occasional horn parts during the 1984-85 concerts with Eric Leeds or those Eddie M. parts on record and live and of course the Eric Leeds/Atlanta Bliss combination from Parade until the Lovesexy tour but I´m not really a fan of his later use of big horn sections. And the updated Minneapolis sound (see Mutiny on the Arsenio Hall show) with real horns instead of synths wasn´t really my cup of tea either.

Yeah I was watching a performance on Ellen and I noticed how the horns just sounded overbearing.

Eddie M, Eric Leeds, Atlanta Bliss, any of those singular or plural combinations brought me joy. The use of the larger horn sections did not always do it for me.

OldFriends4Sale said:

KoolEaze said:

I liked the pre-horns sound he had up until 1986 but I also enjoyed the occasional horn parts during the 1984-85 concerts with Eric Leeds or those Eddie M. parts on record and live and of course the Eric Leeds/Atlanta Bliss combination from Parade until the Lovesexy tour but I´m not really a fan of his later use of big horn sections. And the updated Minneapolis sound (see Mutiny on the Arsenio Hall show) with real horns instead of synths wasn´t really my cup of tea either.

Yeah I was watching a performance on Ellen and I noticed how the horns just sounded overbearing.

Eddie M, Eric Leeds, Atlanta Bliss, any of those singular or plural combinations brought me joy. The use of the larger horn sections did not always do it for me.

I´m especially partial to Eric Leeds and Eddie Mininfield. They had that trademark sound that added so much to Prince´s sound and complimented it.

As much as I like Maceo and Candy, their sound was not exactly my favorite sax sound when it comes to Prince´s music. Don´t get me wrong, they are both great players and of course Maceo is a living legend but that´s exactly the problem I had with him and Larry. On the one hand they are great musicians and innovators on their instruments but on the other hand I found them way too dominant and too famous in their own right to be playing in Prince´s band.

But it was nice to see Maceo finally be a part of the band after all those fake "Maceo!" shout outs in the early 80s.

However, Mr. Leeds and Mr. Mininfield had that quintessential Purple sound.

PeteSilas said:

interesting thing is, once he did have a horn section, the revolution only fell apart a little more, wendy called that an r and b review. The moves to more traditonal black music and even as matt fink said, prince wanted to "hang out with his black buddies" seemed a major component in the frictions in the band.

I remember reading that quote from A Pop Life. That always irked me. And it is quite telling...if he actully said that.

KoolEaze said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yeah I was watching a performance on Ellen and I noticed how the horns just sounded overbearing.

Eddie M, Eric Leeds, Atlanta Bliss, any of those singular or plural combinations brought me joy. The use of the larger horn sections did not always do it for me.

I´m especially partial to Eric Leeds and Eddie Mininfield. They had that trademark sound that added so much to Prince´s sound and complimented it.

As much as I like Maceo and Candy, their sound was not exactly my favorite sax sound when it comes to Prince´s music. Don´t get me wrong, they are both great players and of course Maceo is a living legend but that´s exactly the problem I had with him and Larry. On the one hand they are great musicians and innovators on their instruments but on the other hand I found them way too dominant and too famous in their own right to be playing in Prince´s band.

But it was nice to see Maceo finally be a part of the band after all those fake "Maceo!" shout outs in the early 80s.

However, Mr. Leeds and Mr. Mininfield had that quintessential Purple sound.

yes, the foundational years of purple music. There is something about if the person was 'established' already it seemed to take away, or not enhance the music.

Eric & Eddie M delivered two different energies of the same sound. And it was perfection.

rdhull said:

PeteSilas said:

interesting thing is, once he did have a horn section, the revolution only fell apart a little more, wendy called that an r and b review. The moves to more traditonal black music and even as matt fink said, prince wanted to "hang out with his black buddies" seemed a major component in the frictions in the band.

I remember reading that quote from A Pop Life. That always irked me. And it is quite telling...if he actully said that.

ya, that split in his fanbase that we still see today was in his own band. Prince was a black man, some of it's his own fault. He wanted the brass ring and he mixed his band and his music for those reasons but even today people have a hard time with him being what he was, and he was black, an idea he got more and more comfortable with all the way up to his death.

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

interesting thing is, once he did have a horn section, the revolution only fell apart a little more, wendy called that an r and b review. The moves to more traditonal black music and even as matt fink said, prince wanted to "hang out with his black buddies" seemed a major component in the frictions in the band.

There was nothing 'traditionally black' about anything on the Parade tour. There was nothing 'traditionally black about the music being made in the 1985 or 1986.
the RnB review was more about the focus on the dancing. It was talked about in brief on the Nude tour thread, that if Prince did not focus on the choerography would have have paid more attention to rendering songs, in a more crafted way and/or performed songs that many of us probably wished he did live but did not.

What Matt said was during his time in the NPG 1989-90. Miko Weaver though had similar problems with the new band members.

The album version of parade was pure Prince and as eclectic as ever but it was funky as hell, so was ATWIAD as he said himself "ATWIAD is a funky album" but he was putting a lot of stuff on top of the funk. At any rate, his first use of horn sections live during the parade era always seemed a step in the direction of the old soul bands, one which became more fleshed out by the SOTT/Lovesexy eras. Some fans like our own vainandy called it "retro" and it was in a lot of ways. Of course later on his horn sections would be no different than any great soul group but that was many years later. I still go back to what Chick said, that he "hated" horns, I still wonder if that was true of if Chick made it up. It just seems logical for a guy to use an easily controlled keyboard and fingers instead of several guys who you have to get together and pay and cajole to do things. Also, I think Leeds has said he's done much of the horn type charts. I doubt if prince arranged the horns on slow love. Those are pure r and b.

rdhull said:

luvsexy4all said:

Why did Prince not include horns on any previous tours?

How can you even say youre fan asking this question.? Are you trolling?

what am I "trolling" for??

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

interesting thing is, once he did have a horn section, the revolution only fell apart a little more, wendy called that an r and b review. The moves to more traditonal black music and even as matt fink said, prince wanted to "hang out with his black buddies" seemed a major component in the frictions in the band.

There was nothing 'traditionally black' about anything on the Parade tour.

IDK what "traditional black" means but certainly the Parade Tour marked a return to R&B that hadn't been seen since the Rick James Tour, if ever. From DM to PR, tours had a more post-punk/new wave sound, more rock guitars, more synthesizers, more electronic drum kits and a post-punk then neo-romantic esthetics when it came to clothes and hairstyles. Now the Parade Tour was certainly not a mere imitation of JB or 70's funk as has sometimes been implied, but it was more in line with classic funk both musically and visually. No debate from me about it being cool, it's one of my favorite tours, and it was smart from Prince to revert back to an organic sound when the whole world was emulating his synthetic sound.

[Edited 2/13/19 14:02pm]

luvsexy4all said:

rdhull said:

How can you even say youre fan asking this question.? Are you trolling?

what am I "trolling" for??

attention..asking questions with obvious answers

databank said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

There was nothing 'traditionally black' about anything on the Parade tour.

IDK what "traditional black" means but certainly the Parade Tour marked a return to R&B that hadn't been seen since the Rick James Tour, if ever. From DM to PR, tours had a more post-punk/new wave sound, more rock guitars, more synthesizers, more electronic drum kits and a post-punk then neo-romantic esthetics when it came to clothes and hairstyles. Now the Parade Tour was certainly not a mere imitation of JB or 70's funk as has sometimes been implied, but it was more in line with classic funk both musically and visually. No debate from me about it being cool, it's one of my favorite tours, and it was smart from Prince to revert back to an organic sound when the whole world was emulating his synthetic sound.

[Edited 2/13/19 14:02pm]

Yeah he had a wider mix of his music on that tour vs the 1999 tour or Purple Rain(even though they did reacher further back) but I've never heard Prince's music as 'traditionally' anything. Prince's live shows since the beginning were always pushing a higher rock in roll energy. To this day, I never mixed purple music with other music lol it's always with music by Prince, maybe some of the associates after they left the camp. Sometimes it continues telling a story.

The Parade tour consisted of ATWIAD Christopher Tracy's Parade New Position(which Wendy & Lisa pulled up from the vault) Life Can Be So Nice etc piano medlies Purple Rain When Doves Cry I mean that album and ATWIAD was mainly featured on the Parade tour. I love when they did Soft & Wet and I Wanna Be Your Lover on this tour. I just see it more of the 'stage review' which was borrowed from the Family set, than the actual music. Very eclectic presentation of music for sure.

I think were I wish he didn't try to turn it into a 'jam' was Computer Blue(PR tour) and I Wonder U(Parade tour). Computer Blue they went deep and then he turned into a JB type jam, which I wish it would have gone darker and more electric. I Wonder U, with the song being so sultery and steamy I always wished they went further into extended what was happening musically and letting it build.

Yes he incorporated more of the organic sounds from the 1978-1981 period along with flourishes of the new wave/electronic sound -Automatic etc and I agree, him going to that organic sound was right on time. Parade was very earthy while being ethereal.

PeteSilas said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

There was nothing 'traditionally black' about anything on the Parade tour. There was nothing 'traditionally black about the music being made in the 1985 or 1986.
the RnB review was more about the focus on the dancing. It was talked about in brief on the Nude tour thread, that if Prince did not focus on the choerography would have have paid more attention to rendering songs, in a more crafted way and/or performed songs that many of us probably wished he did live but did not.

What Matt said was during his time in the NPG 1989-90. Miko Weaver though had similar problems with the new band members.

The album version of parade was pure Prince and as eclectic as ever but it was funky as hell, so was ATWIAD as he said himself "ATWIAD is a funky album" but he was putting a lot of stuff on top of the funk. At any rate, his first use of horn sections live during the parade era always seemed a step in the direction of the old soul bands, one which became more fleshed out by the SOTT/Lovesexy eras. Some fans like our own vainandy called it "retro" and it was in a lot of ways. Of course later on his horn sections would be no different than any great soul group but that was many years later. I still go back to what Chick said, that he "hated" horns, I still wonder if that was true of if Chick made it up. It just seems logical for a guy to use an easily controlled keyboard and fingers instead of several guys who you have to get together and pay and cajole to do things. Also, I think Leeds has said he's done much of the horn type charts. I doubt if prince arranged the horns on slow love. Those are pure r and b.

Yes it was, I totally agree. It was pure purple music... a style of his own.

I know he had to use them as much as possible, but I didn't think the horns were good on all the songs. Horn use on the Purple Rain tour and the Nice France show were very 'deviant' I came across as 'new'. Not like any traditional horn use for some reason. lol

Like the horns on Little Red Corvette on the SOTT show for example made the song sound a little sappy. It didn't have the 'punch' that song would usually have.

Yeah Leeds said Prince would give him songs to work out arrangments. Like with Clare Fischer.

Eric Leeds was def not writing NPG parts tho, correct?

[Edited 2/13/19 16:04pm]

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

The album version of parade was pure Prince and as eclectic as ever but it was funky as hell, so was ATWIAD as he said himself "ATWIAD is a funky album" but he was putting a lot of stuff on top of the funk. At any rate, his first use of horn sections live during the parade era always seemed a step in the direction of the old soul bands, one which became more fleshed out by the SOTT/Lovesexy eras. Some fans like our own vainandy called it "retro" and it was in a lot of ways. Of course later on his horn sections would be no different than any great soul group but that was many years later. I still go back to what Chick said, that he "hated" horns, I still wonder if that was true of if Chick made it up. It just seems logical for a guy to use an easily controlled keyboard and fingers instead of several guys who you have to get together and pay and cajole to do things. Also, I think Leeds has said he's done much of the horn type charts. I doubt if prince arranged the horns on slow love. Those are pure r and b.

Yes it was, I totally agree. It was pure purple music... a style of his own.

I know he had to use them as much as possible, but I didn't think the horns were good on all the songs. Horn use on the Purple Rain tour and the Nice France show were very 'deviant' I came across as 'new'. Not like any traditional horn use for some reason. lol

Like the horns on Little Red Corvette on the SOTT show for example made the song sound a little sappy. It didn't have the 'punch' that song would usually have.

Yeah Leeds said Prince would give him songs to work out arrangments. Like with Clare Fischer.

I can't remember who (Eric maybe?) but I'm pretty sure someone from the band once said that Prince just wouldn't let any bandmember being inactive on any song, because he was paying them to play. I totally agree that some songs such as LRC, LGC or WDC suffered from that on the 87-88 tours: certain rock or new wave tracks sound corny if you just stick horns to them for the sake of sticking horns to them.

.

As for the horns charts, I know that by the late 90's at least, Prince would give some specific instructions and let the horns arranger do the rest as they felt it. I was once told what was P and what was MBN on "Y Should Eye Do That When Eye Can Do" and once told, it was totally obvious. IDK for sure if it was already the case with Eric but it's quite likely Prince gave him some directions, or at least "edited" what Eric offered. Didn't Eric address it in his lenghty Prince podcast interview? I can't remember.

OldFriends4Sale said:

KoolEaze said:

I´m especially partial to Eric Leeds and Eddie Mininfield. They had that trademark sound that added so much to Prince´s sound and complimented it.

As much as I like Maceo and Candy, their sound was not exactly my favorite sax sound when it comes to Prince´s music. Don´t get me wrong, they are both great players and of course Maceo is a living legend but that´s exactly the problem I had with him and Larry. On the one hand they are great musicians and innovators on their instruments but on the other hand I found them way too dominant and too famous in their own right to be playing in Prince´s band.

But it was nice to see Maceo finally be a part of the band after all those fake "Maceo!" shout outs in the early 80s.

However, Mr. Leeds and Mr. Mininfield had that quintessential Purple sound.

yes, the foundational years of purple music. There is something about if the person was 'established' already it seemed to take away, or not enhance the music.

Eric & Eddie M delivered two different energies of the same sound. And it was perfection.

This makes me think of another legend. How about when Miles Davis appeared with the band? How did people find that?

Of course, Miles was making a guest appearance. Very different from being a band member.

I like Eric Leeds playing, but he is soloist. Not a horn section by any means.

rednblue said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

yes, the foundational years of purple music. There is something about if the person was 'established' already it seemed to take away, or not enhance the music.

Eric & Eddie M delivered two different energies of the same sound. And it was perfection.

This makes me think of another legend. How about when Miles Davis appeared with the band? How did people find that?

Of course, Miles was making a guest appearance. Very different from being a band member.

Personally, I worship at the alter of Miles Davis on a regular basis. Prince actually looked starstruck being onstage with him. I loved that.

poppys said:

rednblue said:

This makes me think of another legend. How about when Miles Davis appeared with the band? How did people find that?

Of course, Miles was making a guest appearance. Very different from being a band member.

Personally, I worship at the alter of Miles Davis on a regular basis. Prince actually looked starstruck being onstage with him. I loved that.

Me too, on both counts.

soladeo1 said:

poppys said:

I like Eric Leeds playing, but he is soloist. Not a horn section by any means.

Yeah. Completely different from when most or all the Hornheadz played at once

rednblue said:

poppys said:

Personally, I worship at the alter of Miles Davis on a regular basis. Prince actually looked starstruck being onstage with him. I loved that.

Me too, on both counts.

jdcxc said:

soladeo1 said:

Fink's synths were Prince's "horns".

More like P’s synths

But it Fink playing live, so why the rebuttle?

And Fink played studio on synth too on some of the hottest pieces like Get It Up, Dirty Mind, Head etc

rednblue said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

yes, the foundational years of purple music. There is something about if the person was 'established' already it seemed to take away, or not enhance the music.

Eric & Eddie M delivered two different energies of the same sound. And it was perfection.

This makes me think of another legend. How about when Miles Davis appeared with the band? How did people find that?

Of course, Miles was making a guest appearance. Very different from being a band member.

Yeah it was different. He was just free styling.

it was Miles soloing on a groove for about 5 min inbetween IGBABN and Chain of Fools

16.It's Gonna Be A Beautiful Night/Six
17.Miles Davis solo
18.Chain Of Fools/Cold Sweat

Now Atlanta Bliss, was pure purple bliss on many Prince tracks

TLM: On New Year’s Eve 1987, you finally got to play on the same stage as Miles, during a Prince benefit event at Paisley Park studios.

Eric Leeds: I always regret one moment. There was just one moment when I wanted to nudge the trumpet player Matt [Blistan, aka Atlanta Bliss] to go into a melody line in "Agharta" and the moment came and went by so quickly that I wasn’t able to grab it. I always regretted that because I really wanted to see the look on Miles’s face! The whole affair lasted for all of five minutes but it was cool.

Eric Leeds: The anticipation was a lot stronger than the actual event. It was a very fast funk groove that we were doing and it wasn’t anything that Miles was going to do anything other than just basically do his stick.

PeteSilas said:

rdhull said:

I remember reading that quote from A Pop Life. That always irked me. And it is quite telling...if he actully said that.

ya, that split in his fanbase that we still see today was in his own band. Prince was a black man, some of it's his own fault. He wanted the brass ring and he mixed his band and his music for those reasons but even today people have a hard time with him being what he was, and he was black, an idea he got more and more comfortable with all the way up to his death.

And it was Tony M that told people in the band Prince wasn't 'black enough' and that he was going to shove black down that ni&&as throat'

rdhull said:

PeteSilas said:

interesting thing is, once he did have a horn section, the revolution only fell apart a little more, wendy called that an r and b review. The moves to more traditonal black music and even as matt fink said, prince wanted to "hang out with his black buddies" seemed a major component in the frictions in the band.

I remember reading that quote from A Pop Life. That always irked me. And it is quite telling...if he actully said that.

Quite telling in what way? you might be irked about the wrong thing.

poppys said:

I like Eric Leeds playing, but he is soloist. Not a horn section by any means.

I think that is going to deep. A horn section is basically a section of horn players whether it is 2-20

When Eric was in the band it was always 2. Eric & Eddie M / Eric and Atlanta Bliss.

He also didn't just play solos, he played in the songs melodies and rhythms without soloing.