databank said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

It would have changed the Purple Rain era: Ice Cream Castles era was nothing as a result. What Bside or long versions could have come out? What performances and music would have come as a result.

I don't think the record would have been much different and some b-sides were already there in the vault, that could have been released if Prince had wanted to. Best you would have gotten would have been The Time opening the PR Tour, and it would have ended with Prince and the Time members hating each other even more, spoiling the tour for everyone involved (and the tour was already a heavy strain on Prince as it was).

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People left for other reasons. Even Jimmy said they would have stayed there because of the guys and it was fun and exciting.

Yeah that's what they say, but their career as producers was taking off and that wasn't compatible with The Time, so they would have left anyway. They wanted to be producers above all.

.

Even if they just went a few more years. That would have been a great ride.

Like I said, the best you could have hoped for was an extra tour. Maybe an extra album could have been recorded in the Summer/Fall of 1984, before the tour started, at about the same time Prince recorded the Family stuff, but then we wouldn't have had the Family album and that would have been a real tragic loss.
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The Time band was reproducing Prince's sound and vision so it would have been the Time.

Yeah well for how long would they have wanted to just reproduce Prince's sound? That's the thing you know.

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Also the Time on the Graffiti Bridge album was the Time band/not Prince.

Absolutely not. The GB songs are all from Corporate World, it's just Prince and Morris. Pandemonium featured the band a little more (some songs are still 100% Prince and Morris), but then again how come they disbanded immediately after that record? They could have gone on, WB would have been happy.

Like when people still think Prince did Too Sexy, but that was Sheila E, Benny R, Steph B and Miko

True. It's not about whether they could but whether they would.

.

And to be fair the 'Prince' scene was changed in 1990, so even what Prince was doing didn't work nor did it last a year. But that had a lot to do with the FLOP of the movie Graffiti Bridge.
But from February- October the Time was doing videos, releasing singles and doing performance.
They broke because they didn't get along too well (they fired Jesse) and because they wanted to prioritize their own projects (Jimmy and Terry in particular). Pandemonium was The Time's biggest seller ever, so it was all but a flop: WB was happy and the band should have been happy, too. GB sold decently as well. The movie was just a casualty and was P's failure not the Time's, nothing much to worry about. Then when Morris reformed the band in 95 (and the only reason he did it was because he was out of a record deal and still had to pay the bills), only those also in need of a job showed up. And when everyone finally showed up in 2011, they again didn't get along and split.

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By Ice Cream Castles 3 songs 'all Prince/Morris' '3 songs by Prince with the Time' '3 song by the Time'

There isn't a single track with all bandmembers playing on ICC. Not even The Bird despite it being based on a live recording

.
Also Morris Day & Jesse Johnson were more involved

True

and songs like My Summertime Thang involved Jimmy & Terry

Not true as far as I know, or did I miss something?.

There is a possibility the full Time would have been more involved in the music and following albums.

.

What else would it have changed? Read some interviews by Jellybean.

Yeah Morris was pissed as hell, everyone was, but the relationship was already tense before that, and it would have kept going worse anyway.

.

What would it have changed? Prince started his own label... he would have had people who could help him build that and produce acts

Not in this world. Not with Prince being Prince and Morris being Morris and Jesse being Jesse and Jam & Lewis meeting the success they've met as producers outside of P's influence.

Jesse was asked to stay and replace Morris after PR and he chose to leave. When Prince offered him a song for Shockadelica, Jesse reportedly said "this was the last thing he needed". They all wanted to exist outside of Prince's influence. Not just them BTW: both André and Mark said they were pissed they had to ask Prince for songs after they left, and only did it because their respective labels pressured them to get some purple hits.

Jimmy suggested that they could have stayed if they hadn't taken P's word for firing them, as the paychecks were still coming for a while. It could have been like Alan Leeds said about JB: people being "fired every other week" but in the end being taken back every time once "punishment" was over. But they didn't stay.

Then Terry was asked to come back for PR and didn't because Jimmy wasn't invited, but then again maybe if he'd insisted for Jimmy to come back with him Prince would have said OK... But he didn't insist.

But there's even better, and that's the final nail on the coffin as far as I'm concerned: Before Terry and Jimmy were fired, Morris was already telling the other bandmembers to prepare themselves for whatever was coming next, because he already knew that The Time couldn't last for very much longer. Jimmy told that story many times.

It was a bit like when Apples said "I wasn't gonna play the 'Apollonia in underwear' part beyond that one PR project": they were playing a part, and it so happened they were musicians, not actors.

.

As with the Revolution discussions we've had, I think you're over-idealizing those years, the relationships between all those people and projecting your own fantasies over reality. Just the other day I was listening to this Alan Leeds interview when he said as early as 1983 if the Revolution was having a good time and Prince got in the room everyone would go tense and silent, afraid that the first one to speak would say something "wrong" and get a lecture for it. This says a lot about the atmosphere in the purple world back then. Sure they also had good times with Prince and all, but people were kept on their toes (and underpaid!).

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Like I said, best we could have hoped for was a 3rd tour with Prince that would have ended badly, and a 4th album in 1985 that have taken the place of The Family, and I wouldn't trade that against The Family no matter how much I love The Time.

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We're buddies, so let's agree to disagree.

Well this isn't about the Revolution, that is a different post. And I usually call the 'Revolution' period that 1981/82-1986/87 period. I don't prefer the 1983-1986 period, I prefer the 1979-1989 period. And I've always stated that.
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But I've said before, and I'm not going to go further into this. But you're constantly minimizing that period 1. Because you didn't experience it, 2. you just assume people are going by 'emotions' -I'm not a very emotional person. And you yourself who came 2 Prince in the 90s can be accused of doing the same about the 90s.

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What you accuse, is like someone saying people who say music and the music scene were better in the 70s and 80s are just going by feelings, nostalgia or idealizing it. I can say from fact that the music of the 70s 80s and the scene was faaar better than the 90s and 2000s. The early 90s into maybe 95 still had the residual affects of good stuff, but it was becoming very weak by 95 overall.
And Prince's golden period and greatests eras(album/tour/videos/scene) was the 1980-1987 period.

You can take this back to the AA forum and we can go further. But others in round about ways have even expressed that the 1982-1986 period was his best. And even Prince said that was his competition.
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I explained pretty plainly in the other thread, my reasonings.
I don't know what Allan Leeds is talking about...Sounds more like Prince & the Time. I mean Prince lived with Revolution/Time members, some lived with him. Discussions and arguements have been regularly expressed as happening in the group... that isn't a bad atmosphere. AND remained friends with them over his lifetime. Prince talked about the band members being very vocal about likes and dislikes, 'hey put that away we've been there already' etc yet respect Prince as the visionary. But the one thing is they weren't two faced with Prince. Like Miko Jill and some others have said they saw with members in the earlier NPG.

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I think you have a sour tone to all of this by choice.
What I implied in my post was if Prince was had a different mindset about Jimmy & Terry, the firing would have never happened. After the extreme anxiety about Purple Rain success passed he would have been more relaxed.

Can you guys post any of that?
I've never read anything that said he took ecstasy with Ingrid.
Prince talked to Cat about ecstasy she expressed what it does, it was Prince Antony and Cat on a night on the town, they went to a club so Prince could slip the dj the Black album and play it to get a feel.

Ingrid happened into the same club and they met. I've never read from Cat or Ingrid about Prince & Ingrid doing ecstasy. If they did and you two have any interview sources I would welcome it.

purplefam99 said:

PennyPurple said:

I thought he took ecstasy with Ingrid that Cat brought to him.?

I believe that is what I understood as well Penny.

rdhull said:

RJOrion said:

OldFriends4Sale said: yep...there is no close second choice, either

Yeah it was so bad he went on to Purple Rain sucess, SOTT success, Lovesexy etc etc

It isn't about his direct album success. But that extended success

SOTT could have been bigger in the 1987 the protege extension of the kingdom fell off big time and never recovered. Lovesexy a success? the album or the tour? Let's be real. And etc etc-Graffiti Bridge the movie? Carmen Electra(the protege?) come on... Robin Power & the Uptown Dames(proteges?) come on...success?? come on. But maybe that stuff is what get's you two off lol

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You say he went on to PR success, yes but Prince wanted more than what he got. He even had a flier for December 1984 believing the Time would be on board

PeteSilas said:

RJOrion said:

when black people speak on the systematic killing of our celebrities who dared to go against the entertainment industry, and in some cases even win temporary battles, only to end up dead under mysterious and often ritualistic circumstances, they get called bitter, racist, crazy, or "conspiracy theorists"...so of course the black sheep and the non black in general will mock and ridicule, even when the evidence is right in their faces...but those who can see, see ...its cool

a number of people from his circle believe that, troy beyer seems to think that, if they really feel that strong they should do something about it.

the lunacy behind all the conspiracy stuff is wack. Most of the info people are putting out there doesn't even gell with the facts.

And they believe Quincy Jones does ritualist homosexual rape rituals to initiat new artists

databank said:

Guitarhero said:

With fans like these who needs enemies.

Little people with little lives despising and judging the rich, the powerful and the gifted up above. It's a pathetic fantasy as old as civilization.

awwwwww

OldFriends4Sale said:

Can you guys post any of that?
I've never read anything that said he took ecstasy with Ingrid.
Prince talked to Cat about ecstasy she expressed what it does, it was Prince Antony and Cat on a night on the town, they went to a club so Prince could slip the dj the Black album and play it to get a feel.

Ingrid happened into the same club and they met. I've never read from Cat or Ingrid about Prince & Ingrid doing ecstasy. If they did and you two have any interview sources I would welcome it.

purplefam99 said:

PennyPurple said: I believe that is what I understood as well Penny.

I'll go back and try to find it.

Prince asked Cat to get him Ecstasy and she knew or someone was her family from the Red Hot Chili Peppers and she obtained it, and I believe Prince flew her in to MN to give it to him. Yes, they went out to the club, he brought Ingrid home with him and had his visions about the Black Album.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Can you guys post any of that?
I've never read anything that said he took ecstasy with Ingrid.
Prince talked to Cat about ecstasy she expressed what it does, it was Prince Antony and Cat on a night on the town, they went to a club so Prince could slip the dj the Black album and play it to get a feel.

Ingrid happened into the same club and they met. I've never read from Cat or Ingrid about Prince & Ingrid doing ecstasy. If they did and you two have any interview sources I would welcome it.

purplefam99 said:

PennyPurple said: I believe that is what I understood as well Penny.

They say memory is the first to go.

http://prince.org/msg/7/433074

PennyPurple said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Can you guys post any of that?
I've never read anything that said he took ecstasy with Ingrid.
Prince talked to Cat about ecstasy she expressed what it does, it was Prince Antony and Cat on a night on the town, they went to a club so Prince could slip the dj the Black album and play it to get a feel.

Ingrid happened into the same club and they met. I've never read from Cat or Ingrid about Prince & Ingrid doing ecstasy. If they did and you two have any interview sources I would welcome it.

I'll go back and try to find it.

Prince asked Cat to get him Ecstasy and she knew or someone was her family from the Red Hot Chili Peppers and she obtained it, and I believe Prince flew her in to MN to give it to him. Yes, they went out to the club, he brought Ingrid home with him and had his visions about the Black Album.

I think the fact that Ingrid stayed with him while he was tripping leads people to the conclusion that they took the stuff together.

24 years ago today the BLACK ALBUM was released, by the way. And on this day in 1968 the WHITE ALBUM by the Beatles was released.

databank said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

It would have changed the Purple Rain era: Ice Cream Castles era was nothing as a result. What Bside or long versions could have come out? What performances and music would have come as a result.

I don't think the record would have been much different and some b-sides were already there in the vault, that could have been released if Prince had wanted to. Best you would have gotten would have been The Time opening the PR Tour, and it would have ended with Prince and the Time members hating each other even more, spoiling the tour for everyone involved (and the tour was already a heavy strain on Prince as it was).

.

* The record would have been as different as the Vanity 6 vs Apollonia 6 album would have been.

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People left for other reasons. Even Jimmy said they would have stayed there because of the guys and it was fun and exciting.

Yeah that's what they say, but their career as producers was taking off and that wasn't compatible with The Time, so they would have left anyway. They wanted to be producers above all.

.

Not true, listen to some Jimmy Terry & Jellybean interviews

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Even if they just went a few more years. That would have been a great ride.

Like I said, the best you could have hoped for was an extra tour. Maybe an extra album could have been recorded in the Summer/Fall of 1984, before the tour started, at about the same time Prince recorded the Family stuff, but then we wouldn't have had the Family album and that would have been a real tragic loss.

.

We don't know how that could have worked. Prince was eyeing St Paul before the Time split, Eric was coming in the camp by way of Allan anyways, Susannah was in the camp already, and the rest of the people who were in the band like Miko, Jonathan Melvoin Gregory and Wally were there. So the Family protege group could have still happened.

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The Time band was reproducing Prince's sound and vision so it would have been the Time.

Yeah well for how long would they have wanted to just reproduce Prince's sound? That's the thing you know.

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The artistic evolution... hey he took on Tony M and some other peoples sound. I would have prefered the former

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Also the Time on the Graffiti Bridge album was the Time band/not Prince.

Absolutely not. The GB songs are all from Corporate World, it's just Prince and Morris. Pandemonium featured the band a little more (some songs are still 100% Prince and Morris), but then again how come they disbanded immediately after that record? They could have gone on, WB would have been happy.
.

The scene changed. Even Prince struggled. Why didn't they continue? GB film embarassment?

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Like when people still think Prince did Too Sexy, but that was Sheila E, Benny R, Steph B and Miko

True. It's not about whether they could but whether they would.

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And to be fair the 'Prince' scene was changed in 1990, so even what Prince was doing didn't work nor did it last a year. But that had a lot to do with the FLOP of the movie Graffiti Bridge.
But from February- October the Time was doing videos, releasing singles and doing performance.
They broke because they didn't get along too well (they fired Jesse) and because they wanted to prioritize their own projects (Jimmy and Terry in particular). Pandemonium was The Time's biggest seller ever, so it was all but a flop: WB was happy and the band should have been happy, too. GB sold decently as well. The movie was just a casualty and was P's failure not the Time's, nothing much to worry about. Then when Morris reformed the band in 95 (and the only reason he did it was because he was out of a record deal and still had to pay the bills), only those also in need of a job showed up. And when everyone finally showed up in 2011, they again didn't get along and split.

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Who fired Jesse? are you talking about 1991 or 2013?

No the movie Graffiti Bridge was a HUGE Flop, you know I'm talking about the movie.

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By Ice Cream Castles 3 songs 'all Prince/Morris' '3 songs by Prince with the Time' '3 song by the Time'

There isn't a single track with all bandmembers playing on ICC. Not even The Bird despite it being based on a live recording

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You misunderstood clearly. That was my idea on how Prince should have started dealing with his proteges. By Sheila E's 3rd album it was like that. The 2nd featured 1 song that was all Sheila E and band. But the point is they could have done this easily

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Also Morris Day & Jesse Johnson were more involved

True

and songs like My Summertime Thang involved Jimmy & Terry

Not true as far as I know, or did I miss something?.

There is a possibility the full Time would have been more involved in the music and following albums.

immy Jam discusses The Time, Prince, and working with Janet and Michael Jackson.

April 19, 2012

By Chaz Lipp, Contributor

Let’s look back to 1990 and the Graffiti Bridge movie. How did the original seven members of The Time come to be involved with that project?

Let me try to clarify a little bit. There might be a misconception that we got back together to do the Graffiti Bridge movie. That’s absolutely not the case. What happened, Morris [Day] was working on a project with Prince. It was basically going to be more of a solo project. Prince was going to do the bulk of the writing and playing. I think it was going to be calledCorporate World, but there were a few different names floating around at that point. Around that same time period, we had also been working with Morris on different projects and things. We thought, let’s get The Time back together and just make a record. So we got back together and started making an album. This was with Prince’s blessing, by the way. And we had our own idea for a film.

How did the same basic track from “My Summertime Thang” onPandemonium end up being reused for “The Latest Fashion,” which was part ofGraffiti Bridge?

The origin of “My Summertime Thang” came about around Ice Cream Castle [1984], right around when me and Terry got fired from The Time. We always loved the song, so that was one of the ones we asked Prince for. We said, “Hey Prince, ‘My Summertime Thang,’ can we have that? That was our song from back in the day.” And he said, “Yeah, you can have it. But you know what, I changed the words. It’s called ‘The Latest Fashion’ now.” And we’re like,“No, no, no, no.” So that was sort of a compromise. He wanted it as “The Latest Fashion” because it worked in the movie for the scene. But we wanted it as “My Summertime Thang” because that’s what it was back when we had it. There was a lot of that kind of thing going on, which is why I make the distinction that we didn’t get back together specifically for Graffiti Bridge. We were already on our own path, doing our own thing. We kind of reached a compromise to do it.

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What else would it have changed? Read some interviews by Jellybean.

Yeah Morris was pissed as hell, everyone was, but the relationship was already tense before that, and it would have kept going worse anyway.

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What would it have changed? Prince started his own label... he would have had people who could help him build that and produce acts

Not in this world. Not with Prince being Prince and Morris being Morris and Jesse being Jesse and Jam & Lewis meeting the success they've met as producers outside of P's influence.

* possibly by I'm going by the I believe the anxiety of being on the cusp of success lead Prince to doing behave in the way he did: Firing Jimmy & Terry on the eve of Purple Rain wasn't a logical move, and not offering Vanity a bit more $ was definately not a good move. I believe like as with many people, Prince would have relaxed more with the Time. He obviously loved the guys. But unresolved emotional/family issues can get in the way of that.

Jesse was asked to stay and replace Morris after PR and he chose to leave.

*not true, Prince talked about it and Jesse talked about it. Prince said in a 1985 interview that he did not think Jesse was frontman material. Jesse wanted to front the Time or another band.

When Prince offered him a song for Shockadelica, Jesse reportedly said "this was the last thing he needed". They all wanted to exist outside of Prince's influence.

This is only the result of Prince's games. It wasn't always like that. I mean for 3yrs those guys gave Prince their all for very little $. If Prince would have just treated them normally they would have been happy to exist with his influence. Jesse lived with the man, and helped Susan Rogers learn how to set and prepare things for Prince. Obviously because he chose to want to exist and being with him.

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Not just them BTW: both André and Mark said they were pissed they had to ask Prince for songs after they left, and only did it because their respective labels pressured them to get some purple hits.

* I thought that was Andre's mom who went to Prince as Andre was preparing his first album

* Well yeah, people do go through a period of the need to break away in situations like that. It was intense in insular. Many individuals go through a period when they leave their nuclear family home of discarding family influence to 'find themselves' or see what fits and doesn't fit.

Jimmy suggested that they could have stayed if they hadn't taken P's word for firing them, as the paychecks were still coming for a while. It could have been like Alan Leeds said about JB: people being "fired every other week" but in the end being taken back every time once "punishment" was over. But they didn't stay.

Then Terry was asked to come back for PR and didn't because Jimmy wasn't invited, but then again maybe if he'd insisted for Jimmy to come back with him Prince would have said OK... But he didn't insist.
*I thought it was Jimmy that was asked to come back? And Jerome talked to Terry, and Terry told him to go ahead not let their relationship stop him from benefitting from it.
after the firing of Jimmy & Terry, Monte left, Jellybean was on the fence, Morris was heading out. Jesse had a different relationship with the Time, he was more under Prince's wing.
.

But there's even better, and that's the final nail on the coffin as far as I'm concerned: Before Terry and Jimmy were fired, Morris was already telling the other bandmembers to prepare themselves for whatever was coming next, because he already knew that The Time couldn't last for very much longer. Jimmy told that story many times.

.

Is that was Morris meant? Or is that what you're inserting?

.

It was a bit like when Apples said "I wasn't gonna play the 'Apollonia in underwear' part beyond that one PR project": they were playing a part, and it so happened they were musicians, not actors.

* Well Apollonia was a different case. She never signed on to front a group like Vanity did. That is why the Apollonia 6 period was blah and why Prince removed better songs from that album when he realized Apollonia wasn't committed.

CatB said:

PennyPurple said:

I'll go back and try to find it.

Prince asked Cat to get him Ecstasy and she knew or someone was her family from the Red Hot Chili Peppers and she obtained it, and I believe Prince flew her in to MN to give it to him. Yes, they went out to the club, he brought Ingrid home with him and had his visions about the Black Album.

I think the fact that Ingrid stayed with him while he was tripping leads people to the conclusion that they took the stuff together.

24 years ago today the BLACK ALBUM was released, by the way. And on this day in 1968 the WHITE ALBUM by the Beatles was released.

Yeah, it was Ingrid that allegedly 'sobered' him

I'll have to scoure through my pieces to see if there is more to it

PennyPurple said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Can you guys post any of that?
I've never read anything that said he took ecstasy with Ingrid.
Prince talked to Cat about ecstasy she expressed what it does, it was Prince Antony and Cat on a night on the town, they went to a club so Prince could slip the dj the Black album and play it to get a feel.

Ingrid happened into the same club and they met. I've never read from Cat or Ingrid about Prince & Ingrid doing ecstasy. If they did and you two have any interview sources I would welcome it.

They say memory is the first to go.

http://prince.org/msg/7/433074

Yours? lol I know I had my Prince & Ingrid thread and was already going through it

did you see anything that suggested that Ingrid and Prince did a hit?

Oh, God, knock it off witht the conspiracy bullshit, please thread.

Surprised no one's mentioned it yet but that whole Oprah/Amir/Mayte situation was quite odd.

I respect Prince's right to privacy and to handle it however he wanted, but he seemed to put his wife in a really awkward situation from what I can gather. Probably for the best if he'd cancelled the appearance and grieved privately, citing "no comment" and "the family is asking for your understanding and patience as we deal with a personal family matter at this time. Thank you and god bless." or something like that.

Instead, it just caused more confusion, media scrutiny, speculation, second guessing and made a sad situation even more somber and strange, during times that were ALREADY odd to begin with.

I GET what he was doing. When I suffer a loss like that, I prefer to keep up appearances and continue working - doing stuff - but I'm not famous and under a media spotlight either so I dunno. Plus, it wasn't exclusively HIS loss either, it was THEIRS, and I felt bad Mayte being trotted out like that and made to put on a face, especially after reading her account of the matter.

herb4 said:

Oh, God, knock it off witht the conspiracy bullshit, please thread.

Surprised no one's mentioned it yet but that whole Oprah/Amir/Mayte situation was quite odd.

I respect Prince's right to privacy and to handle it however he wanted, but he seemed to put his wife in a really awkward situation from what I can gather. Probably for the best if he'd cancelled the appearance and grieved privately, citing "no comment" and "the family is asking for your understanding and patience as we deal with a personal family matter at this time. Thank you and god bless." or something like that.

Instead, it just caused more confusion, media scrutiny, speculation, second guessing and made a sad situation even more somber and strange, during times that were ALREADY odd to begin with.

I GET what he was doing. When I suffer a loss like that, I prefer to keep up appearances and continue working - doing stuff - but I'm not famous and under a media spotlight either so I dunno. Plus, it wasn't exclusively HIS loss either, it was THEIRS, and I felt bad Mayte being trotted out like that and made to put on a face, especially after reading her account of the matter.

EnDoRpHn said:

eugenius said:

google lists nothing for a William Rector except a bunch of old white guys who died decades ago. you'll have to be less cryptic if if you're trying to make a point.

If you don’t know by now, you never will. He’s even been wiped from Google.

EnDoRpHn: Google some figment of my imagination named William Rector -- I'm not going to give you any indication of what he pertains to regarding Prince though.

Me: There's literally no one named William Rector on Google that has anything to do with Prince.

EnDoRpHn: He's been wiped from Google.

Me: *Eyeroll*

You've brought nothing to this thread.

MehatmecoatMehanky said:

herb4 said:

Oh, God, knock it off witht the conspiracy bullshit, please thread.

Surprised no one's mentioned it yet but that whole Oprah/Amir/Mayte situation was quite odd.

I respect Prince's right to privacy and to handle it however he wanted, but he seemed to put his wife in a really awkward situation from what I can gather. Probably for the best if he'd cancelled the appearance and grieved privately, citing "no comment" and "the family is asking for your understanding and patience as we deal with a personal family matter at this time. Thank you and god bless." or something like that.

Instead, it just caused more confusion, media scrutiny, speculation, second guessing and made a sad situation even more somber and strange, during times that were ALREADY odd to begin with.

I GET what he was doing. When I suffer a loss like that, I prefer to keep up appearances and continue working - doing stuff - but I'm not famous and under a media spotlight either so I dunno. Plus, it wasn't exclusively HIS loss either, it was THEIRS, and I felt bad Mayte being trotted out like that and made to put on a face, especially after reading her account of the matter.

that was odd of course, I don't know if it hurt his career or not, he was so far off the radar by that time already I don't think anyone but his fans really cared. It had to be a tough decision for him to stop or keep pushing with so much work and hope put into the independent project. Right or wrong, Prince always forged ahead, he did that to the point of death himself.

PennyPurple said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Can you guys post any of that?
I've never read anything that said he took ecstasy with Ingrid.
Prince talked to Cat about ecstasy she expressed what it does, it was Prince Antony and Cat on a night on the town, they went to a club so Prince could slip the dj the Black album and play it to get a feel.

Ingrid happened into the same club and they met. I've never read from Cat or Ingrid about Prince & Ingrid doing ecstasy. If they did and you two have any interview sources I would welcome it.

I'll go back and try to find it.

Prince asked Cat to get him Ecstasy and she knew or someone was her family from the Red Hot Chili Peppers and she obtained it, and I believe Prince flew her in to MN to give it to him. Yes, they went out to the club, he brought Ingrid home with him and had his visions about the Black Album.

This is correct. Chavez didn't take the drug with him, she was just a hanger-on that hung around for far too long. To me, his biggest mistake -- not being able to handle his high.

.
Imagine making an album as risky and cool as The Black Album, then pulling it because you allowed a party drug to trick you into thinking it was evil, then putting out a soft, spirtual album instead. He never released a dangerous, unpredictable LP again.

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

a number of people from his circle believe that, troy beyer seems to think that, if they really feel that strong they should do something about it.

the lunacy behind all the conspiracy stuff is wack. Most of the info people are putting out there doesn't even gell with the facts.

And they believe Quincy Jones does ritualist homosexual rape rituals to initiat new artists

i'm not saying you're wrong but it's interesting that some of the people from the inside think things are fishy. Like I said, if they know something they should do something. As for me, I vascillate between addiction/od to suicide with the underlying rumours of poor health probably having some truth to it. The old "white man out to get us" doesn't apply 100 percent of the time although it does a lot of the time, so I try to be patient, I'm indian, we are every bit as loony as anyone when it comes to paranoia.

PeteSilas said:

MehatmecoatMehanky said:

that was odd of course, I don't know if it hurt his career or not, he was so far off the radar by that time already I don't think anyone but his fans really cared. It had to be a tough decision for him to stop or keep pushing with so much work and hope put into the independent project. Right or wrong, Prince always forged ahead, he did that to the point of death himself.

I don't think it hurt his career at all.

By that point he'd carved it this weird "world's most popular underground artist" thing and, in spite of being the butt of a lot of jokes, music listeners knew what was up and he had a strong "base" group of followers who loved him and who were interested in his stuff. All things considered, I think he mastered his career beautifully; always skating just outside the mainstream, building on his mystique and poking his head out when it was time to ask for a spotlight (Musicology, Super Bowl, etc.)

All his "weirdness", overall, I think actually aided his longevity and never put him in a spot to become a complete joke or overexposed, like being on a cheesy reality show or appearing in a commercial or something like that would have. He managed to remain "popular ENOUGH" and stayed largely focused on the music and trying to think outside the box. He was a true artist, with everything weird that goes with that, and seemed to have enough sense to know that, for the most part, he could make money and stay true to who he was.

The thread wasn't framed as "miscalculation that hurt his CAREER" so when the Amir incident popped in my head I just threw it out there because, whatever he was "calculating" there, it was some strange mental math he chose and, of all things he's done, that one stood out for me as a genuine "WTF?" moment, especially in retrospect.

MoBettaBliss said:

rave unto blue suit

it did to a lot of people, but what would have been the "right" way to handle that? to cancel everything and ask for privacy? To say what happened and milk it for sympathy? Prince did what he usually did, marched forward, kept his pain to himself and misdirected the questions with obtuse answers.

herb4 said:

PeteSilas said:

that was odd of course, I don't know if it hurt his career or not, he was so far off the radar by that time already I don't think anyone but his fans really cared. It had to be a tough decision for him to stop or keep pushing with so much work and hope put into the independent project. Right or wrong, Prince always forged ahead, he did that to the point of death himself.

I don't think it hurt his career at all.

By that point he'd carved it this weird "world's most popular underground artist" thing and, in spite of being the butt of a lot of jokes, music listeners knew what was up and he had a strong "base" group of followers who loved him and who were interested in his stuff. All things considered, I think he mastered his career beautifully; always skating just outside the mainstream, building on his mystique and poking his head out when it was time to ask for a spotlight (Musicology, Super Bowl, etc.)

All his "weirdness", overall, I think actually aided his longevity and never put him in a spot to become a complete joke or overexposed, like being on a cheesy reality show or appearing in a commercial or something like that would have. He managed to remain "popular ENOUGH" and stayed largely focused on the music and trying to think outside the box. He was a true artist, with everything weird that goes with that, and seemed to have enough sense to know that, for the most part, he could make money and stay true to who he was.

The thread wasn't framed as "miscalculation that hurt his CAREER" so when the Amir incident popped in my head I just threw it out there because, whatever he was "calculating" there, it was some strange mental math he chose and, of all things he's done, that one stood out for me as a genuine "WTF?" moment, especially in retrospect.

RJOrion said:

"....why?..because you wouldnt pass the initiation..."~P "what initiation?"~ Appolonia "well for starters, you have to purify yourself in the waters of Lake Minnetonka"~ P initiations? purification? that aint even the half of it

huh, you're losing me brother.

OldFriends4Sale said:

PeteSilas said:

Lol. One E. Y'all still going on about that one E?? Lmao.
News flash, the rave scene was big, tons of people did E's, some even shock horror were able to try it once or twice without being drug addicts.
Black & white. No grey is there.
Get out & live.

herb4 said:

Oh, God, knock it off witht the conspiracy bullshit, please thread.

Surprised no one's mentioned it yet but that whole Oprah/Amir/Mayte situation was quite odd.

I respect Prince's right to privacy and to handle it however he wanted, but he seemed to put his wife in a really awkward situation from what I can gather. Probably for the best if he'd cancelled the appearance and grieved privately, citing "no comment" and "the family is asking for your understanding and patience as we deal with a personal family matter at this time. Thank you and god bless." or something like that.

Instead, it just caused more confusion, media scrutiny, speculation, second guessing and made a sad situation even more somber and strange, during times that were ALREADY odd to begin with.

I GET what he was doing. When I suffer a loss like that, I prefer to keep up appearances and continue working - doing stuff - but I'm not famous and under a media spotlight either so I dunno. Plus, it wasn't exclusively HIS loss either, it was THEIRS, and I felt bad Mayte being trotted out like that and made to put on a face, especially after reading her account of the matter.

Her account.
Never his.
No witnesses to the most damaging stories in that book.
Oh yeah, there is a witness, but she waited till he was dead.

[Edited 11/22/18 19:11pm]

purplefam99 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

that was Cat not Ingrid

I don’t ever recall hearing that he took X with Cat. Are you saying he took it with cat? I thought she just provided/sourced it.

Usually if someone is going to sample, like in this situation, they do it with someone who they know/trust etc in this case it was Cat

1987: Prince had never tried Ecstasy, and was curious about it after Cat told him what it felt like. He asked Cat to get him some (it came from her, where the common misconception is that it came from Ingrid). Cat was in LA when Prince made his request. She got some and flew in to MN and was staying at a hotel when Prince's limo showed up. While they were both in her room, Cat suggested Prince take half a dose "because he was so small". He took the full dose and told Cat to wait for him. He rode off in his limo and Cat didn't hear from him until much later.

Prince decided to go to a club while he was tripping. It was here that he met Ingrid Chavez, which eventually led them to Paisley Park. Cat said she didn't think Ingrid knew Prince was tripping on E. Prince called Cat later from the limo and told her about Ingrid. She was riding with him at that point, and the three of them went out to Paisley, making for a historical night in Prince's career.

Even more interesting is her source for where she got the Ecstasy in the first place: Anthony Kiedis from the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

http://prince.org/msg/7/433074 Prince & Ingrid Chavez ~ 1987-1992

eugenius said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

cat has said different things, i've read interviews where she denied giving prince anything. She probably did though.

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplefam99 said:

OldFriends4Sale said: I don’t ever recall hearing that he took X with Cat. Are you saying he took it with cat? I thought she just provided/sourced it.

Usually if someone is going to sample, like in this situation, they do it with someone who they know/trust etc in this case it was Cat

1987: Prince had never tried Ecstasy, and was curious about it after Cat told him what it felt like. He asked Cat to get him some (it came from her, where the common misconception is that it came from Ingrid). Cat was in LA when Prince made his request. She got some and flew in to MN and was staying at a hotel when Prince's limo showed up. While they were both in her room, Cat suggested Prince take half a dose "because he was so small". He took the full dose and told Cat to wait for him. He rode off in his limo and Cat didn't hear from him until much later.

Prince decided to go to a club while he was tripping. It was here that he met Ingrid Chavez, which eventually led them to Paisley Park. Cat said she didn't think Ingrid knew Prince was tripping on E. Prince called Cat later from the limo and told her about Ingrid. She was riding with him at that point, and the three of them went out to Paisley, making for a historical night in Prince's career.

Even more interesting is her source for where she got the Ecstasy in the first place: Anthony Kiedis from the Red Hot Chili Peppers.

http://prince.org/msg/7/433074 Prince & Ingrid Chavez ~ 1987-1992