TrivialPursuit said:

rogifan said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said: Good question. 🤔

This is literally the only thread they've ever participated in on the Org.

And hopefully the last.

djThunderfunk said:

TrivialPursuit said:

This is literally the only thread they've ever participated in on the Org.

And hopefully the last.

So, I guess we all took "the bait"?? Well, good discussion, nonetheless....

djThunderfunk said:

TrivialPursuit said:

This is literally the only thread they've ever participated in on the Org.

And hopefully the last.

Getting checked and dragged will do that

ya, but there have been a myriad of posts and threads by people with this sentiment, i don't think they're wrong. I only can say that after having studied Malcolm X, Muhammad Ali, Elvis Presley, Bruce Lee, Bruce Springsteen.., they are just people, they lie, they decieve, they cheat, all the things the rest of us do. Exceptional men but still men. So, Prince being a drug addict either during the last part of his life or throughout his career wouldn't ruin his image for me.

[Edited 10/9/18 13:20pm]

violetcrush said:

djThunderfunk said:

And hopefully the last.

So, I guess we all took "the bait"?? Well, good discussion, nonetheless....

Damn yeah, it's the OP's only post here.

Someone who comes here for the first time and immediately posts some batshit crazy stuff, it can't be good.

We need to be careful with those, there was also this dude trolling about P&AM83 being "nothing but hiss" and calling other orgers names the other day, and it was his first posts as well.

That is exactly how I feel.... Hurt and Betrayed.

funksterr said:

That is exactly how I feel.... Hurt and Betrayed.

.

Sure.

But I can feel the same about the ways of the Estate, the way some things went before he died, etc.

I do not have much time for that.

Prince was an entertainer. If he entertained you, he gave you the ONLY thing you should expect from him.

VelvetKittyKat said:

Prince was an entertainer. If he entertained you, he gave you the ONLY thing you should expect from him.

yes but he was also very enlightening with his biblical themes ...

luvsexy4all said:

VelvetKittyKat said:

Prince was an entertainer. If he entertained you, he gave you the ONLY thing you should expect from him.

yes but he was also very enlightening with his biblical themes ...

Prince had many "themes" throughout his career - many of which can be summarized by his album titles - Dirty Mind, Controversy, Purple Rain, ATWIAD, Parade, SOTT, LoveSexy, GB...and on and on. His albums typically expressed where he was with his life and thoughts at that time.

*

VelvetKittyKat is right though - regardless of what he was singing about or what his opinions were at any given time, to his fans he was an entertainer, period. Nothing more.

VelvetKittyKat said:

Prince was an entertainer. If he entertained you, he gave you the ONLY thing you should expect from him.

part of what they "sell" is who they are suppossed to be and what they embody, Elvis embodied Freedom from democracy's limits, Springsteen expressed the woes of the working man, Billy Joel was the sensitive piano man, parts of those were real part fake, it's up to us to decide but.., you cannot fake what they put out people see right through a phoney and prince was no phoney but things have a way of going wrong and as Muhammad Ali once said about his fighting to long "anybody can get lost, I just git lost".

VelvetKittyKat said:

Prince was an entertainer. If he entertained you, he gave you the ONLY thing you should expect from him.

That's the truth. People are feeling betrayed (so melodramatic!) because Prince didn't live up to their expectations, of which he had zero obligation. The biggest thing we've learned about Prince after his death is that he was incredibly vulnerable and human. How someone is hurt by that reeks of the betrayed being incredibly short-sighted and self-serving.

TrivialPursuit said:

VelvetKittyKat said:

Prince was an entertainer. If he entertained you, he gave you the ONLY thing you should expect from him.

That's the truth. People are feeling betrayed (so melodramatic!) because Prince didn't live up to their expectations, of which he had zero obligation. The biggest thing we've learned about Prince after his death is that he was incredibly vulnerable and human. How someone is hurt by that reeks of the betrayed being incredibly short-sighted and self-serving.

Right on TrivialPursuit. Also, to me, he accomplished more than most could ever dream of doing, especially based on where he started in life. Regardless of his inability to show his vulnerable and/or emotional side in public, what he was able to do with his time here was amazing, and the fact that people here will be listening to him and studying his life and music for years and years to come is a testament to that fact. Quite frankly, I feel like a slug with my life compared to his, and I think most could admit the same.

PeteSilas said:

VelvetKittyKat said:

Prince was an entertainer. If he entertained you, he gave you the ONLY thing you should expect from him.

part of what they "sell" is who they are suppossed to be and what they embody, Elvis embodied Freedom from democracy's limits, Springsteen expressed the woes of the working man, Billy Joel was the sensitive piano man, parts of those were real part fake, it's up to us to decide but.., you cannot fake what they put out people see right through a phoney and prince was no phoney but things have a way of going wrong and as Muhammad Ali once said about his fighting to long "anybody can get lost, I just git lost".

Right - what you have just described here is the understanding that, regardless of celebrity status and popularity, every person here on this Earth is human. Elvis, Billy Joel, Ali, etc...all human. Prince was human. Despite their talent and success they all experience many of the same siutations that plague the rest of us.

*

At the end of the day Prince did not owe us anything at all. He didn't even owe us music really. If we liked it and wanted to listen to it, well then great - but he did not "owe" us music that we would like.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

part of what they "sell" is who they are suppossed to be and what they embody, Elvis embodied Freedom from democracy's limits, Springsteen expressed the woes of the working man, Billy Joel was the sensitive piano man, parts of those were real part fake, it's up to us to decide but.., you cannot fake what they put out people see right through a phoney and prince was no phoney but things have a way of going wrong and as Muhammad Ali once said about his fighting to long "anybody can get lost, I just git lost".

Right - what you have just described here is the understanding that, regardless of celebrity status and popularity, every person here on this Earth is human. Elvis, Billy Joel, Ali, etc...all human. Prince was human. Despite their talent and success they all experience many of the same siutations that plague the rest of us.

*

At the end of the day Prince did not owe us anything at all. He didn't even owe us music really. If we liked it and wanted to listen to it, well then great - but he did not "owe" us music that we would like.

And we as fans didn't owe him anything either, but he would not have made it in the business without fans.

one thing i've learned about people is that whether you're famous or not, if someone claims you in some kind of way, either as family or friend or fan, one thing I've learned, they think they own you, that they have the power to define you. It's a bit more accentuated as a musician, i've been a musician for a long time and from the time you start someone is trying to shape you, either into their image of a good musician or into not being a musician at all. There's always beens someone hovering over me, even on my small scale, telling me what to wear, play, sing. I can't take responsibilty for that can i? You'll go crazy listening to every idiot with an opinion because everyone has them and they are everywhere. I'm sure prince tried, i have no ill feelings against him, I used to really hold how he treated people against him but even that has changed, most people are pretty nasty only difference is prince never pretended to those around him that he wasn't, if anything, his nastiness hid his decency. In my exp. most of the time people can hide their nastiness for a time but it always comes out so why hold against him something everyone is; vile.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

part of what they "sell" is who they are suppossed to be and what they embody, Elvis embodied Freedom from democracy's limits, Springsteen expressed the woes of the working man, Billy Joel was the sensitive piano man, parts of those were real part fake, it's up to us to decide but.., you cannot fake what they put out people see right through a phoney and prince was no phoney but things have a way of going wrong and as Muhammad Ali once said about his fighting to long "anybody can get lost, I just git lost".

Right - what you have just described here is the understanding that, regardless of celebrity status and popularity, every person here on this Earth is human. Elvis, Billy Joel, Ali, etc...all human. Prince was human. Despite their talent and success they all experience many of the same siutations that plague the rest of us.

*

At the end of the day Prince did not owe us anything at all. He didn't even owe us music really. If we liked it and wanted to listen to it, well then great - but he did not "owe" us music that we would like.

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

Right - what you have just described here is the understanding that, regardless of celebrity status and popularity, every person here on this Earth is human. Elvis, Billy Joel, Ali, etc...all human. Prince was human. Despite their talent and success they all experience many of the same siutations that plague the rest of us.

*

At the end of the day Prince did not owe us anything at all. He didn't even owe us music really. If we liked it and wanted to listen to it, well then great - but he did not "owe" us music that we would like.

And we as fans didn't owe him anything either, but he would not have made it in the business without fans.

that^^^, he gave, we gave, it was some kind of relationship. hence the org, hence the feelings

on this thread (both hurt and those who aren't) hence the "am i alone in feeling completely numb" thread on and on.

[Edited 10/12/18 18:03pm]

Prince struck me as an intimate artist who wanted closeness with fans. He was teaching, preaching, always communicating. He was deeper than an entertainer.

peggyon said:

peggyon said:

Prince struck me as an intimate artist who wanted closeness with fans. He was teaching, preaching, always communicating. He was deeper than an entertainer.

Yes, it seemed in his music he was stretching, always morphing, changing. To me, his music was a parallel to his own life. When you continued to listen all your life, it seemed like at times he was feeling what you were feeling; trying to communicate that to you. (Especially meaningful to me, as he was in my generation...)

Times when you felt more thoughtful, or more down on the world, or more sexual, or more spiritual, or just high on life, it was all in there.

Seahorsie said:

peggyon said:

Prince struck me as an intimate artist who wanted closeness with fans. He was teaching, preaching, always communicating. He was deeper than an entertainer.

Yes, it seemed in his music he was stretching, always morphing, changing. To me, his music was a parallel to his own life. When you continued to listen all your life, it seemed like at times he was feeling what you were feeling; trying to communicate that to you. (Especially meaningful to me, as he was in my generation...)

Times when you felt more thoughtful, or more down on the world, or more sexual, or more spiritual, or just high on life, it was all in there.

Thank you Seahorsie. Yes, I think he wanted to share his journey and it seemed easier to sing about his thoughts/emotions.I noticed a couple of times, he was singing so soulfully and openly and when the song ended, he almost seemed embarrassed. He was so open with his lyrics and songs, but rather opaque at other times. Probably needed to protect his creativity/soul.

PennyPurple said:

violetcrush said:

Right - what you have just described here is the understanding that, regardless of celebrity status and popularity, every person here on this Earth is human. Elvis, Billy Joel, Ali, etc...all human. Prince was human. Despite their talent and success they all experience many of the same siutations that plague the rest of us.

*

At the end of the day Prince did not owe us anything at all. He didn't even owe us music really. If we liked it and wanted to listen to it, well then great - but he did not "owe" us music that we would like.

And we as fans didn't owe him anything either, but he would not have made it in the business without fans.

Of course, you need fans to like and buy your music. However, this is a commercial interaction, not a personal one. You buy and listen to the music, because you like the style of it, the way it sounds, and/or you relate to the lyrics within your own life experiences - not because of any kind of personal relationship or connection with the artist. The fact that you like and relate to his music or even his message does not mean there is any kind of personal relationhip or that he owes you anything. The majority of Prince's songs are his expressions of his own life experiences and relationships with specific people who he actually did know personally. He was just telling stories - a musical autobiography of sorts. Doesn't mean he owed us anything on a personal level. Feeling "hurt and betrayed" by someone comes from knowing them on a personal level - usually a deep personal level. Not a musician-to-fan level.

violetcrush said:

purplefam99 said:

violetcrush said:

Of course, you need fans to like and buy your music. However, this is a commercial interaction, not a personal one. You buy and listen to the music, because you like the style of it, the way it sounds, and/or you relate to the lyrics within your own life experiences - not because of any kind of personal relationship or connection with the artist. The fact that you like and relate to his music or even his message does not mean there is any kind of personal relationhip or that he owes you anything. The majority of Prince's songs are his expressions of his own life experiences and relationships with specific people who he actually did know personally. He was just telling stories - a musical autobiography of sorts. Doesn't mean he owed us anything on a personal level. Feeling "hurt and betrayed" by someone comes from knowing them on a personal level - usually a deep personal level. Not a musician-to-fan level.

Then what about all the feelings of sadness people feel when he died. Are some feelings allowed and others not? Hurt and sadness 2plus years out from a person most didn’t know on a personal level. Why can’t one “feel” whatever they want. I believe the OP if we are Still on topic said they “felt”. Not that they were actually hurt Or betrayed. But I know that people feel sad and actually are And they didn’t know him on a personal level. What makes the latter More rash. It has been said in a similar thread that people “Felt” like they lost a limb or that their family had actually been Stomped on. Why are those “feelings” accepted more Often when they are in the same “feelings” bucket? I know what your saying and see what your trying to communicate. Can you see what I am? Thx V.

I hear what you are saying, and of course it is understandable to feel sadness about his death, and also the way he died, and sadness about learning of how long he was suffering with pain. Of course there is a sense of loss for someone who was a world wide figure, and created music that we love. There is the sadness that we will no longer have new music from him. This is still not the same as "feeling hurt and betrayed" by Prince's actions, secrets or lifestyle. Again, someone cannot directly hurt or betray you unless you know them on some personal level.

*

Of anyone, it's the people who had past or present relationships with him - Sheila E, Wendy & Lisa, Michael Bland, Sonny T, Jill Jones, Susannah, etc - who would be more justified with feeling "hurt and betrayed", because he didn't reach out to them or let them in, but none of them are even stating this.

djchitown said:

I feel hurt and betrayed that he lied to us about his addiction and intimate relationships with women I went to PP on Sunday. I understand that he had to lie about so much of what he was doing because he would have been disassociated from the Jehovah Witnesses organization. But does anyone know when was the last time he visited a Kingdom Hall? Also is there a transcript of the interview that the police had with Larry Graham?

As a former JW (don't ask) I think your feelings are completely reasonable. But let's be real. Prince was someone who didn't stick to anything long and I don't mean just his marriages and sexual partners lol. I'm vegan and he claimed to be vegan and before you know it he's talking about making egg omeletes on a talk show. I learned to take his claims, beliefs, etc...with a grain of salt. As long as he didn't come out as a racist, Nazi, etc... I stopped cariing. I was a mega fan until about 1996 and I love a lot of his music still.

It's a pity he lied to all his brothers and sisters by fornicating like he always did pre-JW and after. That's Prince tho'. The guy had a massive ego and did whatever he wanted. Like it or not. There were times I kinda admired the man Prince (when he went vegan for example) but I was let down too many times to count and I learned to not invest emotionally in the artist but rather only the art.

To all you arseholes bashing djchitown it's YOU who need to grow the eff up. Just because youre hiding behind a computer doesn't mean you can treat others poorly...

homesquid said:

As a former JW (don't ask) I think your feelings are completely reasonable. But let's be real. Prince was someone who didn't stick to anything long and I don't mean just his marriages and sexual partners lol. I'm vegan and he claimed to be vegan and before you know it he's talking about making egg omeletes on a talk show. I learned to take his claims, beliefs, etc...with a grain of salt. As long as he didn't come out as a racist, Nazi, etc... I stopped cariing. I was a mega fan until about 1996 and I love a lot of his music still.

It's a pity he lied to all his brothers and sisters by fornicating like he always did pre-JW and after. That's Prince tho'. The guy had a massive ego and did whatever he wanted. Like it or not. There were times I kinda admired the man Prince (when he went vegan for example) but I was let down too many times to count and I learned to not invest emotionally in the artist but rather only the art.

Great post. So much truth and a healthy attitude - to see him for what he was. Great humor too. "That's Prince tho" reminds me of a running gag with friends. Talking about him, sooner or later we'll always get to the point to discuss why he got away with so much. Things we would not tolerate in any other man. Or why he could preach the one thing but do the other. And why we loved him anyway. And then one will always say, "Because Prince, bitches" That's the only way you can really look back on things without feeling "hurt" or "betrayed". You can't change people anyway, so take them for what they are or walk away.

homesquid said:

djchitown said:

I feel hurt and betrayed that he lied to us about his addiction and intimate relationships with women I went to PP on Sunday. I understand that he had to lie about so much of what he was doing because he would have been disassociated from the Jehovah Witnesses organization. But does anyone know when was the last time he visited a Kingdom Hall? Also is there a transcript of the interview that the police had with Larry Graham?

As a former JW (don't ask) I think your feelings are completely reasonable. But let's be real. Prince was someone who didn't stick to anything long and I don't mean just his marriages and sexual partners lol. I'm vegan and he claimed to be vegan and before you know it he's talking about making egg omeletes on a talk show. I learned to take his claims, beliefs, etc...with a grain of salt. As long as he didn't come out as a racist, Nazi, etc... I stopped cariing. I was a mega fan until about 1996 and I love a lot of his music still.

It's a pity he lied to all his brothers and sisters by fornicating like he always did pre-JW and after. That's Prince tho'. The guy had a massive ego and did whatever he wanted. Like it or not. There were times I kinda admired the man Prince (when he went vegan for example) but I was let down too many times to count and I learned to not invest emotionally in the artist but rather only the art.

To all you arseholes bashing djchitown it's YOU who need to grow the eff up. Just because youre hiding behind a computer doesn't mean you can treat others poorly...

I disagree iwith much of what you say here. Prince was, in fact, a Vegetarian from c. 1990 until his death. There was a point where he went Vegan, but as many others have admitted, the Vegan diet is limiting and can be difficult to adhere to. However, he never strayed from the Vegetarian diet, and always supported the animal rights movement. Many people in this world, as they go through life, look for and find various pathways, and they venture in and out of different phases. This is very normal, and is how people change and grow. There are also many "regular" folks who have had multiple marriages, and/or a long string of sexual partners. None of this should matter with regard to Prince and his music.

*

Prince spoke about these things in public usually because he was asked direct questions in interviews about anything and everything involving his personal life. Or, his viewpoints were often found in his songs.

*

Again, to quote Prince during his interview with Larry King when asked if he thinks people should have a right to know about his personal life: "my music is what you come to the party for. If I give you something more, then that's me giving you something. If you seek something more then it seems that there is something lacking within yourself".

violetcrush said:

homesquid said:

As a former JW (don't ask) I think your feelings are completely reasonable. But let's be real. Prince was someone who didn't stick to anything long and I don't mean just his marriages and sexual partners lol. I'm vegan and he claimed to be vegan and before you know it he's talking about making egg omeletes on a talk show. I learned to take his claims, beliefs, etc...with a grain of salt. As long as he didn't come out as a racist, Nazi, etc... I stopped cariing. I was a mega fan until about 1996 and I love a lot of his music still.

It's a pity he lied to all his brothers and sisters by fornicating like he always did pre-JW and after. That's Prince tho'. The guy had a massive ego and did whatever he wanted. Like it or not. There were times I kinda admired the man Prince (when he went vegan for example) but I was let down too many times to count and I learned to not invest emotionally in the artist but rather only the art.

To all you arseholes bashing djchitown it's YOU who need to grow the eff up. Just because youre hiding behind a computer doesn't mean you can treat others poorly...

I disagree iwith much of what you say here. Prince was, in fact, a Vegetarian from c. 1990 until his death. There was a point where he went Vegan, but as many others have admitted, the Vegan diet is limiting and can be difficult to adhere to. However, he never strayed from the Vegetarian diet, and always supported the animal rights movement. Many people in this world, as they go through life, look for and find various pathways, and they venture in and out of different phases. This is very normal, and is how people change and grow. There are also many "regular" folks who have had multiple marriages, and/or a long string of sexual partners. None of this should matter with regard to Prince and his music.

*

Prince spoke about these things in public usually because he was asked direct questions in interviews about anything and everything involving his personal life. Or, his viewpoints were often found in his songs.

*

Again, to quote Prince during his interview with Larry King when asked if he thinks people should have a right to know about his personal life: "my music is what you come to the party for. If I give you something more, then that's me giving you something. If you seek something more then it seems that there is something lacking within yourself".

peggyon said:

violetcrush said:

I disagree iwith much of what you say here. Prince was, in fact, a Vegetarian from c. 1990 until his death. There was a point where he went Vegan, but as many others have admitted, the Vegan diet is limiting and can be difficult to adhere to. However, he never strayed from the Vegetarian diet, and always supported the animal rights movement. Many people in this world, as they go through life, look for and find various pathways, and they venture in and out of different phases. This is very normal, and is how people change and grow. There are also many "regular" folks who have had multiple marriages, and/or a long string of sexual partners. None of this should matter with regard to Prince and his music.

*

Prince spoke about these things in public usually because he was asked direct questions in interviews about anything and everything involving his personal life. Or, his viewpoints were often found in his songs.

*

Again, to quote Prince during his interview with Larry King when asked if he thinks people should have a right to know about his personal life: "my music is what you come to the party for. If I give you something more, then that's me giving you something. If you seek something more then it seems that there is something lacking within yourself".

Yeah, homesquid, sounds pretty accurate to me. Still find Prince captivating, though. Go figure!

[Edited 10/13/18 11:49am]

homesquid said:

djchitown said:

I feel hurt and betrayed that he lied to us about his addiction and intimate relationships with women I went to PP on Sunday. I understand that he had to lie about so much of what he was doing because he would have been disassociated from the Jehovah Witnesses organization. But does anyone know when was the last time he visited a Kingdom Hall? Also is there a transcript of the interview that the police had with Larry Graham?

As a former JW (don't ask) I think your feelings are completely reasonable. But let's be real. Prince was someone who didn't stick to anything long and I don't mean just his marriages and sexual partners lol. I'm vegan and he claimed to be vegan and before you know it he's talking about making egg omeletes on a talk show. I learned to take his claims, beliefs, etc...with a grain of salt. As long as he didn't come out as a racist, Nazi, etc... I stopped cariing. I was a mega fan until about 1996 and I love a lot of his music still.

It's a pity he lied to all his brothers and sisters by fornicating like he always did pre-JW and after. That's Prince tho'. The guy had a massive ego and did whatever he wanted. Like it or not. There were times I kinda admired the man Prince (when he went vegan for example) but I was let down too many times to count and I learned to not invest emotionally in the artist but rather only the art.

To all you arseholes bashing djchitown it's YOU who need to grow the eff up. Just because youre hiding behind a computer doesn't mean you can treat others poorly...

Sorry, I replied to the wrong person earlier...

Yeah, homesquid, your statements rang true with me, too.