1Sasha said:

violetcrush said:

Right on 1Sasha. I would think, especially in this day and age, musicians/celebrities are quite fearful about their exposure, and most are very guarded, or try to be very guarded with their personal lives. Their music is their business/career. Their fans are supposed to be there to support their career.

*

As Prince stated to Larry King when asked about fans wanting to know or be a part of his personal life: "my music is what you come to the party for. If I give you something more, that's me giving you something. If you seek something then that says something about what you may be lacking in your life". Prince addressed this situation numerous times throughout his career - most notably with his "friend" vs. "fan" discussion. Fan is short for fanatic:

*

fa·nat·ic

fəˈnadik/

noun

1. 1.

   a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause.

   synonyms:

   zealot, extremist, militant, dogmatist, devotee, adherent; sectarian, bigot, partisan,radical, diehard; informalmaniac

Perfect comments, VioletCrush. Perfect.

Camileyun said:

https://m.youtube.com/wat...taNDx9kb2E Check out this amazing 10 year old playing guitar...more importantly, check out his proud father. What a difference that will make in this child's life. ALL children deserve this.

Oh, that is beyond adorable!!! What a proud Father and a talented Son. No doubt Prince would have invited them both to PP for the boy to play with him I love hearing the stories of Prince's affection for his associates' kids. So sweet.

*

Brenda Bennett stated in a recent interview that when she reunited with Prince at the first show of one of his concerts, he asked her to bring her Son back to his second show. He had a limo pick them up, and after the show he spent most of the time with her Son talking to him about music.

[Edited 10/3/18 9:16am]

benni said:

Yes, and usually it is just that one person in the family who acts dysfunctional because they "got in with the wrong crowd". In this case, Prince was estranged from his parents. Tyka ran away, got involved in drugs. And usually, when someone says to an individual, "Your father was an abusive man, right?" if their father was not an abusive man they are going to jump in quickly and deny it. "WHAT!? No! My father was the best dad, the best man I knew." Instead Prince got kind of quiet, and he said, "He had his moments." If you had a good father, and someone said to you, "Your dad was an abusive man, right? That's what I heard." How would you react? You wouldn't want that person walking away with the impression that he was an abusive man if he wasn't, not even a little.

For me, I would start shutting down emotionally, become quiet, and would probably try to minimize it by saying something like, "He had his moments."

In that same interview with Oprah, he talked about a different person inside himself. I'm not saying that Prince had multiple personalities, and I don't think Prince was either. But he stated that he developed this other person, he thinks, when he was 5.

And as for Tyka, keep in mind, she still has to keep up the appearance. She has a product to sell now, her brother's music, his fame, his artistry. And again, she grew up in a time of "what happens in the family, stays in the family."

Honestly, we don't know what Prince's homelife was like. You can say that you believe the parents were just a little too strict, and you may be right. I just know that I've seen too many things in Prince (and Tyka) that I recognize in myself that was a result of what I went through, their mannerisms, their being so soft spoken (can't bring attention to yourself when you speak in an abusive household), the needing to control things, the deep dysfunction in the family well into adulthood. And there are more... and I may be right. But at the end of the day, the only one who can say for certain what he experienced is Prince.

Yes, you say something here that I wanted to mention in my previous post as well but then forgot.

It's that most people will not talk about their past or psychological issues in conversations about the very subject but will usually "open up" about it in conversations that are about something else entirely, often in casual chats. When a conversation is just about that subject the mechanisms work and your guard is up. Especially when it comes to subjects like abuse, or also sex. I remember a conversation with a friend of mine for instance in which we talked about sex and how it feels for women. She knew I didn't like her boyfriend as she did what many women do - she made him number 1 in her life and when we were on the phone and he came home she had to end the conversation. He had the say about where they lived and dominated other areas as well. She knew that I didn't like that for her, and other than that she was a very strong woman. She was Goth and loved to stay out all night, hanging with people, smoking and drinking beer. She was too wild, even for me. She was a bit intimidating. She had a strong masculine energy but when it came to guys she turned into a demure girl. I didn't like that for her. I never said it to her directly as I believe in Live and let live but I knew she knew as I was very opinionated about men who dominate like that. Between the lines I could also hear that he wasn't the best lover either but egotistical. Now in that convo she started talking about how great he is, how caring and romantic when it came to sex.

Then one day we had a whole different conversation. She was a dentist's assistant and told me about her training and things, the doctors and care workers she knew. From this she came to hospitals and then told me that she once had surgery in one of the hospitals and when I asked what it was she said she couldn't have sex with men as she was always in pain during sex because there was some small anatomical issue and that they practically had to "deflower her on the operation table". She said even after that she was always in pain and only had sex with men because they wanted to and that she never enjoyed it, even with her - yes, that boyfriend. Before she knew it she had contradicted her story from before. I didn't even need to point it out to her, she started to get defensive while I only listened.

Between the lines I had always heard in our convos that things weren't all that rosy and that's what I mean to say here - we don't go and tell people about our issues and victimize ourselves all over again. But we open up when the talk is more casual and we talk about other things as well. Of course there are always exceptions but in my case I can say that in the beginning I couldn't even talk about it with a therapist. My tongue was literally numb, even if I wanted to, I simply couldn't speak, so big was the fear of what would happen if my stepmother found out. Rationally I know that she can't harm me anymore but it's the child from back then that always stays activated in us and that can be very strong. It was that child's sheer terror that didn't allow me to speak. It took a long time and even then it was struggle. So it's easier to throw in things in small talk about something else entirely, I even find myself joking about it sometimes. Others write stories or music about it. But you will seldom find anyone talking about their dark pasts when in the hot seat.

Like Oscar Wilde said - Give a man a mask and he will tell you the truth.

Benni, thank you as well for your offer to talk. I never realized we had these things in common. *big hugs*

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

1Sasha said:

Prince owed me nothing. I only wish he had had at least person around him he could trust. I don't think he would have made the choice(s) he did if he had.

I agree, but I think the saddest aspect is that through the years he did have people that he could trust, but he kept "the wall" up around him, so they moved on. Very difficult to have a "one-sided" relationship, or one that does not allow for vulnerability or a deeper connection. He did not trust people, therefore, he did not fully let them in. When he felt they were getting too close or if he didn't like what they said or did he would cut them off completely. Hard to hold on to a trusted circle with that mindset.

He sounds like he did a shitty job in the last couple years protecting himself if what we here from some folks was true. It gives credence to the idea that he may have been so lost in drugs that he either didn't care or didn't really notice anymore. I thought it was interesting how the Theo guy said that he didn't want to sound conspiracist but he mentioned van jones working for cnn/WB and it was he who brought in phaedra (the very name sounds like a drug don't it? ) who finagled some kind of bullshit deal with WB. Maybe Prince was just tired of fighting, that does happen you know. And maybe Appolonia was lying or maybe she was telling the truth when she said that Prince told her Jubilant Judas was around or some shit.

Camileyun said:

https://m.youtube.com/wat...taNDx9kb2E Check out this amazing 10 year old playing guitar...more importantly, check out his proud father. What a difference that will make in this child's life. ALL children deserve this.

doesn't always happen that way, some parents are abusive in how they push, others, like mine, were neglectful. If you really love something, as I did, it ain't gonna make a difference, you gonna do it.

violetcrush said:

Camileyun said:

https://m.youtube.com/wat...taNDx9kb2E Check out this amazing 10 year old playing guitar...more importantly, check out his proud father. What a difference that will make in this child's life. ALL children deserve this.

Oh, that is beyond adorable!!! What a proud Father and a talented Son. No doubt Prince would have invited them both to PP for the boy to play with him I love hearing the stories of Prince's affection for his associates' kids. So sweet.

*

Brenda Bennett stated in a recent interview that when she reunited with Prince at the first show of one of his concerts, he asked her to bring her Son back to his second show. He had a limo pick them up, and after the show he spent most of the time with her Son talking to him about music.

[Edited 10/3/18 9:16am]

ya, that was an amazing story, he sounded so normal in that story. For all the talk of how distant he was, I wouldn't want to meet somebody's funky kid who I knew 30 years ago, especially if I had a major tour going on.

I had pretty dysfunctional parents, i don't say bad or anything like that anymore. I've been around too much and seen how every family is fucked up in it's own way and feel like I got off easy compared to some people. Moreover, I feel like I understand why they had such issues more now, having had to work and survive in a world full of assholes, it ain't easy being kind at the end of the day. I see it as way bigger than my parents, it's how we are conditioned to treat each other and misuse power. It worked for me, I've spent a lot of my life broke but I don't put up with people, I don't really like or trust anyone not just because I'm paranoid but because most people are a waste of time. So I'm glad I saw and experienced all those things because I learned I wanted my own path even if it meant poverty. Others I've seen, grew up spoiled rotten but could never leave the parent, another may have grown up deeply religious and were brainwashed before they even had a chance to make up their own minds. I got off light and i don't work for no one or take shit off of no one, I took enough when i was young, all that's good. And if i needed someone to have my back, my parents as crazy as they were, had it more than these fake ass people we are forced to be around all day, none of those people matter. I'll never understand why people are so stupid as to spend more time around a bunch of fucking strangers than their own families, it's fucked.

CatB said:

benni said:

Yes, and usually it is just that one person in the family who acts dysfunctional because they "got in with the wrong crowd". In this case, Prince was estranged from his parents. Tyka ran away, got involved in drugs. And usually, when someone says to an individual, "Your father was an abusive man, right?" if their father was not an abusive man they are going to jump in quickly and deny it. "WHAT!? No! My father was the best dad, the best man I knew." Instead Prince got kind of quiet, and he said, "He had his moments." If you had a good father, and someone said to you, "Your dad was an abusive man, right? That's what I heard." How would you react? You wouldn't want that person walking away with the impression that he was an abusive man if he wasn't, not even a little.

For me, I would start shutting down emotionally, become quiet, and would probably try to minimize it by saying something like, "He had his moments."

In that same interview with Oprah, he talked about a different person inside himself. I'm not saying that Prince had multiple personalities, and I don't think Prince was either. But he stated that he developed this other person, he thinks, when he was 5.

And as for Tyka, keep in mind, she still has to keep up the appearance. She has a product to sell now, her brother's music, his fame, his artistry. And again, she grew up in a time of "what happens in the family, stays in the family."

Honestly, we don't know what Prince's homelife was like. You can say that you believe the parents were just a little too strict, and you may be right. I just know that I've seen too many things in Prince (and Tyka) that I recognize in myself that was a result of what I went through, their mannerisms, their being so soft spoken (can't bring attention to yourself when you speak in an abusive household), the needing to control things, the deep dysfunction in the family well into adulthood. And there are more... and I may be right. But at the end of the day, the only one who can say for certain what he experienced is Prince.

Yes, you say something here that I wanted to mention in my previous post as well but then forgot.

It's that most people will not talk about their past or psychological issues in conversations about the very subject but will usually "open up" about it in conversations that are about something else entirely, often in casual chats. When a conversation is just about that subject the mechanisms work and your guard is up. Especially when it comes to subjects like abuse, or also sex. I remember a conversation with a friend of mine for instance in which we talked about sex and how it feels for women. She knew I didn't like her boyfriend as she did what many women do - she made him number 1 in her life and when we were on the phone and he came home she had to end the conversation. He had the say about where they lived and dominated other areas as well. She knew that I didn't like that for her, and other than that she was a very strong woman. She was Goth and loved to stay out all night, hanging with people, smoking and drinking beer. She was too wild, even for me. She was a bit intimidating. She had a strong masculine energy but when it came to guys she turned into a demure girl. I didn't like that for her. I never said it to her directly as I believe in Live and let live but I knew she knew as I was very opinionated about men who dominate like that. Between the lines I could also hear that he wasn't the best lover either but egotistical. Now in that convo she started talking about how great he is, how caring and romantic when it came to sex.

Then one day we had a whole different conversation. She was a dentist's assistant and told me about her training and things, the doctors and care workers she knew. From this she came to hospitals and then told me that she once had surgery in one of the hospitals and when I asked what it was she said she couldn't have sex with men as she was always in pain during sex because there was some small anatomical issue and that they practically had to "deflower her on the operation table". She said even after that she was always in pain and only had sex with men because they wanted to and that she never enjoyed it, even with her - yes, that boyfriend. Before she knew it she had contradicted her story from before. I didn't even need to point it out to her, she started to get defensive while I only listened.

Between the lines I had always heard in our convos that things weren't all that rosy and that's what I mean to say here - we don't go and tell people about our issues and victimize ourselves all over again. But we open up when the talk is more casual and we talk about other things as well. Of course there are always exceptions but in my case I can say that in the beginning I couldn't even talk about it with a therapist. My tongue was literally numb, even if I wanted to, I simply couldn't speak, so big was the fear of what would happen if my stepmother found out. Rationally I know that she can't harm me anymore but it's the child from back then that always stays activated in us and that can be very strong. It was that child's sheer terror that didn't allow me to speak. It took a long time and even then it was struggle. So it's easier to throw in things in small talk about something else entirely, I even find myself joking about it sometimes. Others write stories or music about it. But you will seldom find anyone talking about their dark pasts when in the hot seat.

Like Oscar Wilde said - Give a man a mask and he will tell you the truth.

Benni, thank you as well for your offer to talk. I never realized we had these things in common. *big hugs*

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

Camileyun said:

violetcrush said:

I think he never stopped caring about the friends and associates who were there in the beginning. He may not have outwardly shown it, but these people were important to him. Brenda and her husband were with him for years. He was very happy to see Susan too. Very touching. It was clear that he had an affinity for children. Very sad that he was not able to have his own. [Edited 10/3/18 12:57pm]

I agree he seemed to have an affinity for children...He was charitable to organizations involving children. And children are easier to trust.

Yes, especially charitable to children with special needs or economic challenges. i feel in many ways he was "kid-like", so he relaterd to the little ones. I also think it became very important to him that children know reall music, and learn to play real instruments. He spoke about this often in interviews, especially during the Musicology time periiod. It's been said that he would scour YouTube looking for child musical prodigies, and invite them and their parents to PP to meet with him and talk about music. Very touching.

EmmaMcG said:

daingermouz2020 said:

EmmaMcG said:

Complete and utter bullshit. The only thing a pop star owes his audience is music. His personal life was HIS personal life. If he wanted to bang women half his age, that's his (and her) decision to make. If he liked the idea of the JW faith but went against some of its more strict rules, that's his decision to make. If he wanted to hide his addiction to painkillers so as not to hurt his reputation, that's his decision to make. And he has no obligation to explain his decisions to anyone. Least of all his fans. Like I said, the only thing he needed to give us was music, and during his lifetime he gave us more than enough. Possibly to the detriment of his own health. If you feel Prince owed you any more than what he gave you then you need to get your head out of your arse and grow up a bit.

I agree. In 1978 Prince debut as a really talented mysterious figure. Over the years I've learned alot more about him but overall from 1978 thru 2016 Prince still remains a mysterious figure and that's cool with me. It's always been about the music to me at least with this artist.

Yes, he wanted the mystery/mystique from the beginning - hence, the often ambiguous or cryptic answers in interviews, the lack of interviews for long periods of time, the over-the-top security detail, the media hype about the women, the frequent changes of his style/look, the name change.....and on and on and on.

*

Most of his thoughts and life stories are in his songs though. He never, or rarely, called out anyone specifically, so that helped to maintain the mystery and respect for the subject's privacy.

*

It's like the age-old saying though, "the truth always comes out". Prince said it too in OF4S - "maybe it will all make sense when I'm dead..."

To be honest with you, nothing makes sense to me and we are going on three years now since he left.

1Sasha said:

To be honest with you, nothing makes sense to me and we are going on three years now since he left.

If you listen to the interviews with many of his past associates, friends, etc. and also read the information about the very deadly potential of Opioid addiction - both in relation to legitimate prescriptions and the counterfeit pills that are consuming the market now - Prince's death becomes very understandable. Even the question of "well, why did the few people who were with him everyday - why did they not act sooner, and confront Prince about this addiction? The answer, most likely, is a comination of things - loyalty and respect toward his wishes about privacy is probably the largest factor. He never let down that wall, and he often let go of people who tried to break through it.

*

I found this interview that Wendy and Lisa did not long after his death, and their words make a lot of sense:

*

“Prince died because of keeping up his façade,” she continues. “Nobody can live that way all the time. We can’t hold people to these extreme standards. Age happens and that doesn’t only mean the deterioration of your body, it also means the enhancement of your mind and your experience. You have so much more to give. Prince’s youth was spectacular, but imagine him as an old man and what he’d be able to impart. We lost that. Everybody who is ‘superhuman’ needs to let people know, ‘Hey, I’m a person, I’m getting older, I get tired.' Say whatever they need to, because not doing so killed my friend.”

There’s no way someone like Prince could ever say to the world: ‘I have a terrible hip problem,'" says Melvoin. "'I’m in such fucking pain, you have no idea. I’m addicted to this stuff, and I need help.' Someone like him would never do that, ever.”

*

Words and information from two people who spent many many hours with him, and stayed in touch with him off and on through the years.

[Edited 10/7/18 8:50am]

maybe that's true, maybe it's not but if it is, i always thought how strange it is because most of "the world" wouldn't have even given a fuck, only the assholes here, his fans, and ya, they woulda busted his chops but it wouldn't have been the end of the world.

violetcrush said:

1Sasha said:

To be honest with you, nothing makes sense to me and we are going on three years now since he left.

If you listen to the interviews with many of his past associates, friends, etc. and also read the information about the very deadly potential of Opioid addiction - both in relation to legitimate prescriptions and the counterfeit pills that are consuming the market now - Prince's death becomes very understandable. Even the question of "well, why did the few people who were with him everyday - why did they not act sooner, and confront Prince about this addiction? The answer, most likely, is a comination of things - loyalty and respect toward his wishes about privacy is probably the largest factor. He never let down that wall, and he often let go of people who tried to break through it.

*

I found this interview that Wendy and Lisa did not long after his death, and their words make a lot of sense:

*

“Prince died because of keeping up his façade,” she continues. “Nobody can live that way all the time. We can’t hold people to these extreme standards. Age happens and that doesn’t only mean the deterioration of your body, it also means the enhancement of your mind and your experience. You have so much more to give. Prince’s youth was spectacular, but imagine him as an old man and what he’d be able to impart. We lost that. Everybody who is ‘superhuman’ needs to let people know, ‘Hey, I’m a person, I’m getting older, I get tired.' Say whatever they need to, because not doing so killed my friend.”

There’s no way someone like Prince could ever say to the world: ‘I have a terrible hip problem,'" says Melvoin. "'I’m in such fucking pain, you have no idea. I’m addicted to this stuff, and I need help.' Someone like him would never do that, ever.”

*

Words and information from two people who spent many many hours with him, and stayed in touch with him off and on through the years.

[Edited 10/7/18 8:50am]

Krystalkisses said:

Thanks so much Violetcrush. Wendy's explanation really hit home for me. I wish Prince could have trusted we all loved him . It really hurts my heart looking back that he felt the need to keep up this image at the expense of being a person. I think Sharon Stone made some comment about fame like " You think it will feed you , but it ends up consuming you".

You're very welcome Krystalkisses Yes, good quote from Sharon Stone. Seems the "otherwordly super-human" facade overtook him quite young, and it grew from there. I think in his mind there could be no turning back after that.

Krystalkisses said:

Thanks so much Violetcrush. Wendy's explanation really hit home for me. I wish Prince could have trusted we all loved him . It really hurts my heart looking back that he felt the need to keep up this image at the expense of being a person. I think Sharon Stone made some comment about fame like " You think it will feed you , but it ends up consuming you".

Fans' adulation (it's not love) is in vain when you feel unloved or abandoned by your parents, especially your mother. That bond is essential for your entire existence. Even without going into showbiz he would've taken on images = trying to find his identity.

MJ's German manager once explained it very well when he said Michael felt loved by his fans when he was on stage but the moment the lights went out and people went home he thought they would forget him. So in his mind he only existed on stage. Now Prince was a little more in touch with real life and people than Mike but like him he was not loved by his parents for who he was but for what he could be.

As someone once said about Gustaf Gruendgens, one of Germany's greatest stage actors: No one who is truly loved by only one person would have to seduce over and over again.

When I first heard this I immediately thought of Prince. He wanted to be wanted so bad and went out to seduce time and time again. And he was rejected too, not everyone fell for his charms. Which triggered his control issues again.

Krystalkisses said:

Wow Cat that was such a crystal clear explanation.. I'm kinda at a loss for words. I completely understand because I used to be like that when I was a dancer...it wasn't until I found unconditional love and acceptance and felt the love of my children that I had the strength to be ok with not having EVERYONE love me. It really makes me feel for Prince. Thanks for your valuable insight Cat.

Yes Krystal, that's why I've always wished for him to have a child and get to experience this unconditional love. I think I wrote about this before on some other thread. I so wished for him to be able to have this experience, this bond that you can only have with your mother or your own child. I think it would've given him peace, taken away that restlessness a bit. I have heard other abandoned ones say that once they became mothers/fathers, mothering their child felt like they were also mothering themselves. I think that's beautiful, provided this is not your reason for having a child in the first place.

Yeah, I can see how your dancing was also a seduction pattern. One thinks it's empowering while there are more layers to it. I'm happy for you that you're getting to experience that unconditional love now.

CatB said:

Krystalkisses said:

Thanks so much Violetcrush. Wendy's explanation really hit home for me. I wish Prince could have trusted we all loved him . It really hurts my heart looking back that he felt the need to keep up this image at the expense of being a person. I think Sharon Stone made some comment about fame like " You think it will feed you , but it ends up consuming you".

Fans' adulation (it's not love) is in vain when you feel unloved or abandoned by your parents, especially your mother. That bond is essential for your entire existence. Even without going into showbiz he would've taken on images = trying to find his identity.

MJ's German manager once explained it very well when he said Michael felt loved by his fans when he was on stage but the moment the lights went out and people went home he thought they would forget him. So in his mind he only existed on stage. Now Prince was a little more in touch with real life and people than Mike but like him he was not loved by his parents for who he was but for what he could be.

As someone once said about Gustaf Gruendgens, one of Germany's greatest stage actors: No one who is truly loved by only one person would have to seduce over and over again.

When I first heard this I immediately thought of Prince. He wanted to be wanted so bad and went out to seduce time and time again. And he was rejected too, not everyone fell for his charms. Which triggered his control issues again.

Agree with much of what you are saying here, but it appears that Prince was complicated not just with regard to his obsession with how his fans perceived him, but also within his personal relationships.

*

I think his extreme drive and desire for fame stemmed from wanting to be noticed and adored - that short black kid who was teased and passed over by girls wanted to be noticed. When he was on stage he was taller and bigger then everyone there. He was the center of attention and had their adoration. It gave him a high and he had more confidence on the stage. He thought the fame would give him the things that were lacking in his life. However, sometime after becoming world famous he stated, "i never thought being famous would be so lonely". His wall was even bigger, because he became leary of who he could trust. Everyone wanted something from him, which is a typical consequence of fame.

*

I'm sure in his mind he may have felt that he would be letting his fans down if he began to show a more vulnerable, fallable side. He knew the ramifications of that with regard to his critics too. I can see the headline "The Purple One Is Not So Perfect After All"...or something like that. He was criticized even with the facade. He just would not, or could not, change his public persona or let his guard down.

*

His vulnerabilties, mistakes, and heartbreaks are found in his songs though. That is where he let his wall come down.

CatB said:

Krystalkisses said:

CatB said:

violetcrush said:

Camileyun said:

violetcrush said:

Agree with much of what you are saying here, but it appears that Prince was complicated not just with regard to his obsession with how his fans perceived him, but also within his personal relationships.

*

I think his extreme drive and desire for fame stemmed from wanting to be noticed and adored - that short black kid who was teased and passed over by girls wanted to be noticed. When he was on stage he was taller and bigger then everyone there. He was the center of attention and had their adoration. It gave him a high and he had more confidence on the stage. He thought the fame would give him the things that were lacking in his life. However, sometime after becoming world famous he stated, "i never thought being famous would be so lonely". His wall was even bigger, because he became leary of who he could trust. Everyone wanted something from him, which is a typical consequence of fame.

*

I'm sure in his mind he may have felt that he would be letting his fans down if he began to show a more vulnerable, fallable side. He knew the ramifications of that with regard to his critics too. I can see the headline "The Purple One Is Not So Perfect After All"...or something like that. He was criticized even with the facade. He just would not, or could not, change his public persona or let his guard down.

*

His vulnerabilties, mistakes, and heartbreaks are found in his songs though. That is where he let his wall come down.

These are such good posts.

Thank you

He was just a man. That's it

rogifan said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Why hasnt the OP posted after 7 pages?

Hmmmm

Good question. 🤔

This is literally the only thread they've ever participated in on the Org.