Isn't it funny how in most threads here people lament the Piano & Microphone 83 release, moaning about the estate doing a lousy job... and then the new release gets widespread reviews on- and offline and mostly excellent ratings. Just look at the love this recording and Prince is getting...

Quite clearly, the estate is not looking at the die-hard fans as their audience for this, but on the more casual, "loved him in the 80s" potential buyer.

I do not know the sales figures / effect on catalogue sales, but surely the estate is happy right now!

Discuss !

Welcome to the org.

Read them too, and it made me hesitate for a second, but I bought the deluxe version. And I don't regret it. But I have to say I never heard the bootleg recording. I can imagine that the folks who did hear the bootleg are disappointed with this release in some way. But I'm quite happy about it, allthough I know they could have released something with more impact.

Yeah, I don't quite get the negativity. You don't have to dig it, but you don't have to bitch and whine about it either.

It's a piece of art - a historical document, made to appeal to casual fans, music fans, not just die-hards. The packaging on the deluxe edition is fantastic, as are the liner notes from Jill Jones, Lisa Coleman and Don Batts.

Yes, I want a full length high quality "Cosmic Day" as much as the next die-hard, but I recognise that what I want isn't necessarily the same as what the Estate can sell. There's a middle ground for sure, and they'll get there, but this ain't an easy job.

Never ever determne his work/worth by the denizens here.

"Never?..never ever..forever neva?"

Nope

Loefie said:

Read them too, and it made me hesitate for a second, but I bought the deluxe version. And I don't regret it. But I have to say I never heard the bootleg recording. I can imagine that the folks who did hear the bootleg are disappointed with this release in some way. But I'm quite happy about it, allthough I know they could have released something with more impact.

This one isn't.

Genesia said:

Loefie said:

Read them too, and it made me hesitate for a second, but I bought the deluxe version. And I don't regret it. But I have to say I never heard the bootleg recording. I can imagine that the folks who did hear the bootleg are disappointed with this release in some way. But I'm quite happy about it, allthough I know they could have released something with more impact.

This one isn't.

Nor am I.

My only complaint is it's too short. But, it's a nominal gripe.

I listened to it over the weekend and really enjoyed his exuberance and joy in just playing and singing, working out lyrics or whatever. "Why The Butterflies" is really haunting and moody. It distracted me from working and I had to just stop and listen to it without distraction.

As far as fans negative vs. positive: There is always going to be naysayers. If the Org is anything, it's often a magnification of the shitty segment of people who call themselves Prince fans. They aren't happy unless they're miserable. They are entitled little assholes who think Prince or the estate owes them something to satiate them.

Prince has been dead not even 3 years. The estate has hustled its ass to get PP open as a museum and give tours, set up merchandising and sales (whether merch or the cafe items); it is still cataloging the vault, has released three items in 2.5 years, all of which fans have complained about on some level. They've all turned into Barts. They would have complained about Purple Rain in 2014, and they certainly proved themselves as such in 2017. 4Ever and PAAM were just two more reasons for people to be unhappy, when in fact we could have gotten nothing. No, we shouldn't be thankful for crumbs, but this is more than crumbs. It's varied and interesting releases.

What fans seem to not understand is that these things don't just happen. You don't just say "hey, here's 12 songs, let's put it out tomorrow". It takes time. You stagger releases, you find the best way to do it and market it. I said early on that PAAM is probably going to be a series of things. This 1983 set is not the only one. It's a perfect setup for future releases because we know there are plenty of these types of recordings. As far as the other stuff in the vault, cataloging that and deciding what is feasible as a release and marketable (yes, this is a product for a business, keep your "money and art don't mix" mantras to yourself), and planning the whole process of putting that out.

Prince fans lack gratitude. They think they know what is best to release, but that is solely based on their own selfish desires; not what is a viable and noteworthy product. They estate could just shut down, release tons of anthologies with one new song on a 20 song set and give everyone a big "fuck you". But they haven't. So fans should shut the fuck up, and let things happen. The body is barely cold, and everyone's still trying to pilfer through the house before the cousins show up.

I think everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

Why complain about others opinions?

rdhull said:

Never ever determne his work/worth by the denizens here.

"Never?..never ever..forever neva?"

Nope

Yep. Explore and form your own opinion.

prince fans jus' some jaded-ass muh fuggas...more, better, now, now, now...

i, for one, am quite pleased with this release...here we have a snapshot of prince's immense talent. he was a kid. amazing. shit ain't ever gonna happen like that again.

but, whatever...there'll always be an echo chamber of bitching from entitled whiners.

peedub said:

prince fans jus' some jaded-ass muh fuggas...more, better, now, now, now...

i, for one, am quite pleased with this release...here we have a snapshot of prince's immense talent. he was a kid. amazing. shit ain't ever gonna happen like that again.

but, whatever...there'll always be an echo chamber of bitching from entitled whiners.

He was 25-ish - not really a kid.

Totally agree on the snapshot of his talent , though. And I love the whole "fly on the wall" aspect of it.

Genesia said:

peedub said:

prince fans jus' some jaded-ass muh fuggas...more, better, now, now, now...

i, for one, am quite pleased with this release...here we have a snapshot of prince's immense talent. he was a kid. amazing. shit ain't ever gonna happen like that again.

but, whatever...there'll always be an echo chamber of bitching from entitled whiners.

He was 25-ish - not really a kid.

Totally agree on the snapshot of his talent , though. And I love the whole "fly on the wall" aspect of it.

well, to wield such raw talent at that age? and i'm viewing it in hindsight, after years of absorbtion; whereas this album gives you a glimpse of how bright his star would burn moments before it went supernova. maybe only prince knew what was about to happen. you can feel his ambition, his drive, his soul...long before anybody else (audience wise) knew or cared.

to release this music any other time besides now? it just wouldn't matter...

but, if i didn't know it was prince, i'd kick him off my lawn.

Thinking of negativity on the org vs positive is just a part of life

.

News negative vs positive

.

People who say 'facebook' i evil and won't join or people have so much drama on fb and call it bad

whereas I've NEVER had general bad experiences, outside of dealing with a asshole in a fb group

.

Check out Prince FB groups and you will see the same negative vs positive reactions. Prince.org members are just Prince 'fans' like anywhere else

.

The issue is people entitled beliefs that the estate should be catering to the hardcore fans who already have bootleges and need more to satisfy their addictions.

.

Or the people that just want upbeat thumping funk and rock and see no value in slower quieter music and ballads. Like people who believe She's Always In My Hair should have been on ATWIAD instead of Condition of the Heart.

Strive said:

Here's the problem. You have the press which, even org members admit, are basically rewording the press release Warner sent out because it's not hip to pan a dead man. You have a large group of casual listeners who think that they have to thumbs up this work because it's so special. But the reality is there's nothing special about this release. It's Prince trying to work out songs. He reaches for a solo with 17 Days and doesn't find what he's reaching for. It's glimpses of things that could have been really interesting. It's a good take of Mary Don't You Weap. If you think this is the piece of work that's going to establish Prince as an artist (lol) or this will end up as anything other than an oddity that's quickly forgotten or that he would be cool with this being the first posthumous standalone release, I'm sure the Estate and Warner Bros has a deluxe edition bridge they'd like to sell you. [Edited 9/24/18 10:43am]

Seriously?! That is exactly what makes this special!

Maybe you have to be a creative person, yourself, to be enthralled by the process. But the thing that makes a Prince, or a Tiger Woods, or a Daniel Day-Lewis so amazing is that (unlike the requirement in math class) they never show their work. They come out and make what they do look effortless. But the plain fact is that it's not. There's a whole lot of noodling and repetition and pain and discoveries and trying things out. Sometimes the noodling goes somewhere, sometimes it ends in something great. But it is all worthwhile in the end.

There are limits, of course, to what we want to hear. In Work It, there are tracks and tracks of single drum strikes and stuff like that. Do I need to hear Prince hit a snare drum one time over and over? Probably not. But I will never turn up my nose at listening to a rehearsal (no matter how rough) or something like this. It's gold.

Full disclosure: I say this as I prepare to start rehearsals for my next play. I am sure you would find the rehearsal process intensely boring, but I can't wait to start learning and discovering things about my character and the others in this play. It is process we go through that makes the performances something special.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Genesia said:

Seriously?! That is exactly what makes this special!

Maybe you have to be a creative person, yourself, to be enthralled by the process. But the thing that makes a Prince, or a Tiger Woods, or a Daniel Day-Lewis so amazing is that (unlike the requirement in math class) they never show their work. They come out and make what they do look effortless. But the plain fact is that it's not. There's a whole lot of noodling and repetition and pain and discoveries and trying things out. Sometimes the noodling goes somewhere, sometimes it ends in something great. But it is all worthwhile in the end.

There are limits, of course, to what we want to hear. In Work It, there are tracks and tracks of single drum strikes and stuff like that. Do I need to hear Prince hit a snare drum one time over and over? Probably not. But I will never turn up my nose at listening to a rehearsal (no matter how rough) or something like this. It's gold.

Full disclosure: I say this as I prepare to start rehearsals for my next play. I am sure you would find the rehearsal process intensely boring, but I can't wait to start learning and discovering things about my character and the others in this play. It is process we go through that makes the performances something special.

PennyPurple said:

I think everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

Why complain about others opinions?

A more and more common, yet deep misunderstanding of what freedom of belief/opinion/speech stands for.

It doesn't only mean "anyone is entitled to say anything, including stupid or naugthy things".

It also means that anyone is allowed to denounce stupidity when they encounter it, to fight mean spirited words when they run into them. Opinions can do harm. Words can do harm.

.

Nowadays each time some idiot says something dumb or mean online and someone tells them to shut up, they scream censorship. Disapproval isn't censorship. Freedom of speech is a 2 ways highway which means we are also free to tell people to shut up when we believe that they're talking shit.

.

So yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It doesn't mean that all opinions are equal, that all opinions are good, that all opinions are benevolent. It's doesn't make the dumb intelligent, the prick nice, the false true or the wrong right. It doesn't turn ignorance into knowledge.

.

Many people would be better off to stop expressing their stupid opinions on many a topic because they are clueless. And the world would be a much better place if they would stop doing it, particularly in the digital age when dumb words can reach millions.

.

So yeah, they're entitled to do it. It doesn't mean we shouldn't oppose them at every opportunity.

.

To quote 2 people much wiser than me:

.

“Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community. Then they were quickly silenced, but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It’s the invasion of the idiots.” (Umberto Eco)

.

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” (Isaac Asimov)

Genesia said:

Strive said:

Here's the problem. You have the press which, even org members admit, are basically rewording the press release Warner sent out because it's not hip to pan a dead man. You have a large group of casual listeners who think that they have to thumbs up this work because it's so special. But the reality is there's nothing special about this release. It's Prince trying to work out songs. He reaches for a solo with 17 Days and doesn't find what he's reaching for. It's glimpses of things that could have been really interesting. It's a good take of Mary Don't You Weap. If you think this is the piece of work that's going to establish Prince as an artist (lol) or this will end up as anything other than an oddity that's quickly forgotten or that he would be cool with this being the first posthumous standalone release, I'm sure the Estate and Warner Bros has a deluxe edition bridge they'd like to sell you. [Edited 9/24/18 10:43am]

Seriously?! That is exactly what makes this special!

Maybe you have to be a creative person, yourself, to be enthralled by the process. But the thing that makes a Prince, or a Tiger Woods, or a Daniel Day-Lewis so amazing is that (unlike the requirement in math class) they never show their work. They come out and make what they do look effortless. But the plain fact is that it's not. There's a whole lot of noodling and repetition and pain and discoveries and trying things out. Sometimes the noodling goes somewhere, sometimes it ends in something great. But it is all worthwhile in the end.

There are limits, of course, to what we want to hear. In Work It, there are tracks and tracks of single drum strikes and stuff like that. Do I need to hear Prince hit a snare drum one time over and over? Probably not. But I will never turn up my nose at listening to a rehearsal (no matter how rough) or something like this. It's gold.

Full disclosure: I say this as I prepare to start rehearsals for my next play. I am sure you would find the rehearsal process intensely boring, but I can't wait to start learning and discovering things about my character and the others in this play. It is process we go through that makes the performances something special.

Thank you

Strive said:

Here's the problem. You have the press which, even org members admit, are basically rewording the press release Warner sent out because it's not hip to pan a dead man. You have a large group of casual listeners who think that they have to thumbs up this work because they've been told this is so special. But the reality is there's nothing special about this release. It's Prince trying to work out songs. He reaches for a solo with 17 Days and doesn't find what he's reaching for. It's glimpses of things that could have been really interesting. It's a good take of Mary Don't You Weap. If you think this is the piece of work that's going to establish Prince as an artist (lol) or this will end up as anything other than an oddity that's quickly forgotten or that he would be cool with this being the first posthumous standalone release, I'm sure the Estate and Warner Bros have a deluxe edition bridge they'd like to sell you. [Edited 9/24/18 10:47am]

well, one, i think prince has BEEN established as an artist...

two...what prince WOULD be cool with doesn't matter. what prince WAS cool with was not giving a shit what was going to happen to any of his stuff once he shed his mortal coil.

three (and to borrow rdhull's marlowe stanfield quote)...you wanted things one way, but it's the other...sorry you didn't get what you wanted.

It's an odd choice for a major release. It screams fans only/record store day/bonus cd, especially since we know a fair amount of what's in the vault. and especially since the estate know the fans know this recording and they are are constantly telling us that Prince recorded everything, why not release a piano rehearsal he recorded on any other of the 364 days that year? or a friggin' boxset of rehearsals?

It's a great little release, just not a great big release.

[Edited 9/24/18 11:40am]

Genesia said:

Actually this thread is just stupid (IMO) . We have 5 threads on P&M 83 right now. This thread is just complaining that some people here aren't happy with the release. Which has been noted on the other 4 threads.

None of us have to agree on anything, we all have our own opinions, but to start a thread bitching because some of the opinions don't jive with theirs is stupid.

databank said:

PennyPurple said:

I think everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

Why complain about others opinions?

A more and more common, yet deep misunderstanding of what freedom of belief/opinion/speech stands for.

It doesn't only mean "anyone is entitled to say anything, including stupid or naugthy things".

It also means that anyone is allowed to denounce stupidity when they encounter it, to fight mean spirited words when they run into them. Opinions can do harm. Words can do harm.

.

Nowadays each time some idiot says something dumb or mean online and someone tells them to shut up, they scream censorship. Disapproval isn't censorship. Freedom of speech is a 2 ways highway which means we are also free to tell people to shut up when we believe that they're talking shit.

.

So yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It doesn't mean that all opinions are equal, that all opinions are good, that all opinions are benevolent. It's doesn't make the dumb intelligent, the prick nice, the false true or the wrong right. It doesn't turn ignorance into knowledge.

.

Many people would be better off to stop expressing their stupid opinions on many a topic because they are clueless. And the world would be a much better place if they would stop doing it, particularly in the digital age when dumb words can reach millions.

.

So yeah, they're entitled to do it. It doesn't mean we shouldn't oppose them at every opportunity.

.

To quote 2 people much wiser than me:

.

“Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community. Then they were quickly silenced, but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It’s the invasion of the idiots.” (Umberto Eco)

.

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” (Isaac Asimov)

Strive said:

I'm explaining my position. Why don't the people that think otherwise try the same instead of strawmanning?

The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the opponent's proposition.

https://en.m.wikipedia.or.../Straw_man [Edited 9/24/18 11:31am]

I think Genesia has explained her position quite clearly, without any strawmanning. I couldn't have said it better than her so I didn't feel there was much I could add.

.

IDK what point you're trying to make really. It's there, it's done, critics love it, it charts well, we're getting a new Prince record, everyone's happy, life goes on and there'll be other releases. Just let go.

PennyPurple said:

Actually this thread is just stupid (IMO) . We have 5 threads on P&M 83 right now. This thread is just complaining that some people here aren't happy with the release. Which has been noted on the other 4 threads.

None of us have to agree on anything, we all have our own opinions, but to start a thread bitching because some of the opinions don't jive with theirs is stupid.

databank said:

A more and more common, yet deep misunderstanding of what freedom of belief/opinion/speech stands for.

It doesn't only mean "anyone is entitled to say anything, including stupid or naugthy things".

It also means that anyone is allowed to denounce stupidity when they encounter it, to fight mean spirited words when they run into them. Opinions can do harm. Words can do harm.

.

Nowadays each time some idiot says something dumb or mean online and someone tells them to shut up, they scream censorship. Disapproval isn't censorship. Freedom of speech is a 2 ways highway which means we are also free to tell people to shut up when we believe that they're talking shit.

.

So yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It doesn't mean that all opinions are equal, that all opinions are good, that all opinions are benevolent. It's doesn't make the dumb intelligent, the prick nice, the false true or the wrong right. It doesn't turn ignorance into knowledge.

.

Many people would be better off to stop expressing their stupid opinions on many a topic because they are clueless. And the world would be a much better place if they would stop doing it, particularly in the digital age when dumb words can reach millions.

.

So yeah, they're entitled to do it. It doesn't mean we shouldn't oppose them at every opportunity.

.

To quote 2 people much wiser than me:

.

“Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community. Then they were quickly silenced, but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It’s the invasion of the idiots.” (Umberto Eco)

.

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” (Isaac Asimov)

There's some truth in what you say in terms of the thread being somewhat redundant. I think the thread is more about the Org than the record though, at least that's how I understood it.

Strive said:

Genesia said:

Seriously?! That is exactly what makes this special!

Maybe you have to be a creative person, yourself, to be enthralled by the process. But the thing that makes a Prince, or a Tiger Woods, or a Daniel Day-Lewis so amazing is that (unlike the requirement in math class) they never show their work. They come out and make what they do look effortless. But the plain fact is that it's not. There's a whole lot of noodling and repetition and pain and discoveries and trying things out. Sometimes the noodling goes somewhere, sometimes it ends in something great. But it is all worthwhile in the end.

There are limits, of course, to what we want to hear. In Work It, there are tracks and tracks of single drum strikes and stuff like that. Do I need to hear Prince hit a snare drum one time over and over? Probably not. But I will never turn up my nose at listening to a rehearsal (no matter how rough) or something like this. It's gold.

Full disclosure: I say this as I prepare to start rehearsals for my next play. I am sure you would find the rehearsal process intensely boring, but I can't wait to start learning and discovering things about my character and the others in this play. It is process we go through that makes the performances something special.

But Prince didn't want to reveal the mystery. He worked hard so people would think he was naturally that hot. I actually like demos and rehearsals but not as a first release.

You don't know that. Wanna know how I know you don't know? Because I don't know, either. None of us were privy to Prince's after-death wishes. Know how I know that? Because he didn't leave a will - which would have spelled it all out.

Prince, himself, said everything was likely to be released after he was gone. He could have prevented it by leaving explicit instructions for the sealing of the vault. But he didn't. And this was already out there as a bootleg - making it even less likely he'd have given even a single fuck about it being officially released.

You aren't interested in this. That's perfectly fine. Own it. But please don't dress it up in that tattered "Prince wouldn't have wanted this" garb. Because you just plain don't know that.

PennyPurple said:

Actually this thread is just stupid (IMO) . We have 5 threads on P&M 83 right now. This thread is just complaining that some people here aren't happy with the release. Which has been noted on the other 4 threads.

None of us have to agree on anything, we all have our own opinions, but to start a thread bitching because some of the opinions don't jive with theirs is stupid.

databank said:

A more and more common, yet deep misunderstanding of what freedom of belief/opinion/speech stands for.

It doesn't only mean "anyone is entitled to say anything, including stupid or naugthy things".

It also means that anyone is allowed to denounce stupidity when they encounter it, to fight mean spirited words when they run into them. Opinions can do harm. Words can do harm.

.

Nowadays each time some idiot says something dumb or mean online and someone tells them to shut up, they scream censorship. Disapproval isn't censorship. Freedom of speech is a 2 ways highway which means we are also free to tell people to shut up when we believe that they're talking shit.

.

So yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It doesn't mean that all opinions are equal, that all opinions are good, that all opinions are benevolent. It's doesn't make the dumb intelligent, the prick nice, the false true or the wrong right. It doesn't turn ignorance into knowledge.

.

Many people would be better off to stop expressing their stupid opinions on many a topic because they are clueless. And the world would be a much better place if they would stop doing it, particularly in the digital age when dumb words can reach millions.

.

So yeah, they're entitled to do it. It doesn't mean we shouldn't oppose them at every opportunity.

.

To quote 2 people much wiser than me:

.

“Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community. Then they were quickly silenced, but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It’s the invasion of the idiots.” (Umberto Eco)

.

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'” (Isaac Asimov)

well, you're just bitching cuz people are bitching cuz people are bitching...in a thread about people bitching about people bitching...i think...

The Estate may be able to pull the wool over some new fans eyes, but to us hardcore fans, they aren't pulling the wool over our eyes. We keep our eyes and ears open for that vault material, and they aren't fooling us with this release that is just Prince practicing.

peedub said:

PennyPurple said:

Actually this thread is just stupid (IMO) . We have 5 threads on P&M 83 right now. This thread is just complaining that some people here aren't happy with the release. Which has been noted on the other 4 threads.

None of us have to agree on anything, we all have our own opinions, but to start a thread bitching because some of the opinions don't jive with theirs is stupid.

well, you're just bitching cuz people are bitching cuz people are bitching...in a thread about people bitching about people bitching...i think...

At least I didn't start a thread on it.

[Edited 9/24/18 11:48am]