Something I've learned about Prince fans is that there are all different kinds, and people like different songs and aspects about his music. A song I don't care about at all can be one of someone else's favorites. I am in the "Lovesexy was his creative peak" fan category, and that's part of what this post was about.

Lovesexy was poorly mixed and mastered, and I think that holds it back from being more widely recognized as his best. I was completely flummoxed by it when it came out, especially because of the immediate, absolute brilliance of the full version of Alphabet St. compared to the rest of it. This is a very strange, dense record, and while many people complain about how there is just one track on the CD(I had it on tape), it is very much meant to be listened to as a whole piece of music, and it is very satisfying to do so. He wouldn't ever try to do anything like this again until Rainbow Children(which is a bit on the long side, but I think is highly underrated as well).

Next we have the Batman soundtrack. "Batdance" is one of his most brilliant compostions imo. I also think that "Scandalous" "Electric Chair" and "Vicki's Waiting" are amongst his best work. "The Future" is a solid B, and "Lemon Crush" is 2/3rds brilliant, but kind of peters out towards the end(I feel like there is a longer version of this with a crazy guitar solo, but it never happens on the record.) The remaining songs stack up fine against the average radio songs of the time, but Prince can do better than that. "Partyman" was a pretty weak single that had to be released because it was in the movie, but I think this album would be better remembered if "Electric Chair" and "Vicki's Waiting" had been released as follow up singles.

Next is Graffiti Bridge. If you take off the title track, "New Power Generation" and all the ones with other singers(except for "Release It), you have another strong Prince album with some enticing new directions. Thieves in the Temple, the updated, strange, Tick Tick Bang, and Elephants and Flowers point in an exciting direction, and The Question of U, Joy in Repetition(perfection), and Still Would Stand All Time were also excellent. Can't Stop..., We Can Funk, and Release It only suffer by comparison. Strong tracks.

After that because of flagging sales and relevance, Prince as vanguard mostly came to an end, and a certain element of risk-taking disappeared. I like the updated sound and much better production that came after, but at least half of Diamonds and Pearls was inessential. The hip-hop wasn't so good, and there was also this move towards more conventional sounding songs that would be fine if they weren't Prince songs. The Lovesign record was also only around half good. Come is maybe a bit underrated, but still only half good. The Gold Experience was maybe his last good conventional record, and his peak of this period, but it was lost in fight with his label and only true Prince fans are aware of how(mostly) good it is.

I found Emancipation to be massively disappointing, especially considering there were 3 whole hours of music. I'm not sure that there is even one hour of essential Prince music on it. It was surprisingly conservative considering he no longer had to please record executives.

He seemed to have one more intriguing musical period around "The Rainbow Children" area, where he was making this mellow, psychedelic jazzy stuff, and there is also a lot of good stuff in "The Chocolate Invasion" compilation, but he generally lost a lot of the(musical) things that made him exciting in the first place over time. His "comeback" in the early 2000s yielded some excellent tracks but was quite spotty still. You hear songs like "Future Soul Song" and wonder why he's not doing more stuff that good. He was an excellent singer and guitar player, and his bands were always quite good, but most of his music started to have the same kind of conventional feel to it. Not bad music, but inessential, fine for going to see him live and dancing and having a good time, but not that interesting to listen to on a record.

Anyway, the point is, is that if he hadn't had the combination of record label pressures, and his own desire to maintain his stardom, there was maybe a more interesting Prince that could have emerged out of his late eighties period.

I don't know..I think there is a lot of later stuff that is on par with Future Soul Song in terms of creativity and sophistication.

I don't entirely agree about the number of brilliant later tracks, but I do see your point that maybe had prince not felt pressure to re-assert his money-making status, he would have just made the music he felt most compassionate about. Yesterday, I was listening to Money Don't Matter To night and it occured to me that had Prince decided to just create an album with little portraits of life either in african american community or revolving around real-life concerns (like how to balance the need and desire for money with the enrichment of one's soul--little songs comprised of stories as detailed as the one in that song), Man, what an album that would make.

slida23 said:

Something I've learned about Prince fans is that there are all different kinds, and people like different songs and aspects about his music. A song I don't care about at all can be one of someone else's favorites. I am in the "Lovesexy was his creative peak" fan category, and that's part of what this post was about.

Lovesexy was poorly mixed and mastered, and I think that holds it back from being more widely recognized as his best. I was completely flummoxed by it when it came out, especially because of the immediate, absolute brilliance of the full version of Alphabet St. compared to the rest of it. This is a very strange, dense record, and while many people complain about how there is just one track on the CD(I had it on tape), it is very much meant to be listened to as a whole piece of music, and it is very satisfying to do so. He wouldn't ever try to do anything like this again until Rainbow Children(which is a bit on the long side, but I think is highly underrated as well).

Next we have the Batman soundtrack. "Batdance" is one of his most brilliant compostions imo. I also think that "Scandalous" "Electric Chair" and "Vicki's Waiting" are amongst his best work. "The Future" is a solid B, and "Lemon Crush" is 2/3rds brilliant, but kind of peters out towards the end(I feel like there is a longer version of this with a crazy guitar solo, but it never happens on the record.) The remaining songs stack up fine against the average radio songs of the time, but Prince can do better than that. "Partyman" was a pretty weak single that had to be released because it was in the movie, but I think this album would be better remembered if "Electric Chair" and "Vicki's Waiting" had been released as follow up singles.

Next is Graffiti Bridge. If you take off the title track, "New Power Generation" and all the ones with other singers(except for "Release It), you have another strong Prince album with some enticing new directions. Thieves in the Temple, the updated, strange, Tick Tick Bang, and Elephants and Flowers point in an exciting direction, and The Question of U, Joy in Repetition(perfection), and Still Would Stand All Time were also excellent. Can't Stop..., We Can Funk, and Release It only suffer by comparison. Strong tracks.

After that because of flagging sales and relevance, Prince as vanguard mostly came to an end, and a certain element of risk-taking disappeared. I like the updated sound and much better production that came after, but at least half of Diamonds and Pearls was inessential. The hip-hop wasn't so good, and there was also this move towards more conventional sounding songs that would be fine if they weren't Prince songs. The Lovesign record was also only around half good. Come is maybe a bit underrated, but still only half good. The Gold Experience was maybe his last good conventional record, and his peak of this period, but it was lost in fight with his label and only true Prince fans are aware of how(mostly) good it is.

I found Emancipation to be massively disappointing, especially considering there were 3 whole hours of music. I'm not sure that there is even one hour of essential Prince music on it. It was surprisingly conservative considering he no longer had to please record executives.

He seemed to have one more intriguing musical period around "The Rainbow Children" area, where he was making this mellow, psychedelic jazzy stuff, and there is also a lot of good stuff in "The Chocolate Invasion" compilation, but he generally lost a lot of the(musical) things that made him exciting in the first place over time. His "comeback" in the early 2000s yielded some excellent tracks but was quite spotty still. You hear songs like "Future Soul Song" and wonder why he's not doing more stuff that good. He was an excellent singer and guitar player, and his bands were always quite good, but most of his music started to have the same kind of conventional feel to it. Not bad music, but inessential, fine for going to see him live and dancing and having a good time, but not that interesting to listen to on a record.

Anyway, the point is, is that if he hadn't had the combination of record label pressures, and his own desire to maintain his stardom, there was maybe a more interesting Prince that could have emerged out of his late eighties period.

[Edited 8/12/18 13:23pm]

slida23 said:

Something I've learned about Prince fans is that there are all different kinds, and people like different songs and aspects about his music. A song I don't care about at all can be one of someone else's favorites. I am in the "Lovesexy was his creative peak" fan category, and that's part of what this post was about.

Lovesexy was poorly mixed and mastered, and I think that holds it back from being more widely recognized as his best. I was completely flummoxed by it when it came out, especially because of the immediate, absolute brilliance of the full version of Alphabet St. compared to the rest of it. This is a very strange, dense record, and while many people complain about how there is just one track on the CD(I had it on tape), it is very much meant to be listened to as a whole piece of music, and it is very satisfying to do so. He wouldn't ever try to do anything like this again until Rainbow Children(which is a bit on the long side, but I think is highly underrated as well).

Next we have the Batman soundtrack. "Batdance" is one of his most brilliant compostions imo. I also think that "Scandalous" "Electric Chair" and "Vicki's Waiting" are amongst his best work. "The Future" is a solid B, and "Lemon Crush" is 2/3rds brilliant, but kind of peters out towards the end(I feel like there is a longer version of this with a crazy guitar solo, but it never happens on the record.) The remaining songs stack up fine against the average radio songs of the time, but Prince can do better than that. "Partyman" was a pretty weak single that had to be released because it was in the movie, but I think this album would be better remembered if "Electric Chair" and "Vicki's Waiting" had been released as follow up singles.

Next is Graffiti Bridge. If you take off the title track, "New Power Generation" and all the ones with other singers(except for "Release It), you have another strong Prince album with some enticing new directions. Thieves in the Temple, the updated, strange, Tick Tick Bang, and Elephants and Flowers point in an exciting direction, and The Question of U, Joy in Repetition(perfection), and Still Would Stand All Time were also excellent. Can't Stop..., We Can Funk, and Release It only suffer by comparison. Strong tracks.

After that because of flagging sales and relevance, Prince as vanguard mostly came to an end, and a certain element of risk-taking disappeared. I like the updated sound and much better production that came after, but at least half of Diamonds and Pearls was inessential. The hip-hop wasn't so good, and there was also this move towards more conventional sounding songs that would be fine if they weren't Prince songs. The Lovesign record was also only around half good. Come is maybe a bit underrated, but still only half good. The Gold Experience was maybe his last good conventional record, and his peak of this period, but it was lost in fight with his label and only true Prince fans are aware of how(mostly) good it is.

I found Emancipation to be massively disappointing, especially considering there were 3 whole hours of music. I'm not sure that there is even one hour of essential Prince music on it. It was surprisingly conservative considering he no longer had to please record executives.

He seemed to have one more intriguing musical period around "The Rainbow Children" area, where he was making this mellow, psychedelic jazzy stuff, and there is also a lot of good stuff in "The Chocolate Invasion" compilation, but he generally lost a lot of the(musical) things that made him exciting in the first place over time. His "comeback" in the early 2000s yielded some excellent tracks but was quite spotty still. You hear songs like "Future Soul Song" and wonder why he's not doing more stuff that good. He was an excellent singer and guitar player, and his bands were always quite good, but most of his music started to have the same kind of conventional feel to it. Not bad music, but inessential, fine for going to see him live and dancing and having a good time, but not that interesting to listen to on a record.

Anyway, the point is, is that if he hadn't had the combination of record label pressures, and his own desire to maintain his stardom, there was maybe a more interesting Prince that could have emerged out of his late eighties period.

I couldnt handle a MORE INTERESTING Prince..

As it is, more than 2 years later Im learning new things all the time about him.

In fact...

I cant think of a MORE INTERESTING person anywhere..

on this planet

or any other !

I can only add that there is Prince music from the 90s, 00s, and 10s that I like as much as his 80s music. But, as always, to each his own. As has been said on this site hundreds of times, "One person's Lovesexy is another person's Dirty Mind, or Diamonds & Pearls, or The Gold Experience, or The Rainbow Children, and so on."

Its funny but I love much of 3121 and musicology and AOA, (and will never understand why people think Diamonds and Pearls is a better album than those three). I have mixed feelings about lotusflower (good guitar work, but politically not my thing and some of the songs sound too derivative to me), and I love about 2/3rds of HnR2. I think plectrumelectrum needed more time to cook but was still fun to listen to.. The albums I dislike are Planet Earth, (2 or 3 good songs), and MPLSsound. I like about half of 20ten and HnR1. I find the Love symbol album overrated amongst critics and don't understand why they often think its his last great album (when in my opinion the Truth and Gold Experience are better). Prince music often divides people where preference is concerned ..LOL>

MIRvmn said:

For me Prince has and always will be the most interesting artist but it's no doubt that his best music was released between 1978 - 1995. There was brilliant albums released after that like TRC, Lotusflow3r and HNR2 but that pretty much it, I barley listen to Musicology, 3121, PE and not even AOA which I loved when it came out. All those albums has only a few gems on them. I think he saved the best music in the vault instead of releasing it in later years cuz he had no pressure from record companies so It's obvious that WB made him release some of his best songs in the 80s and early 90s. [Edited 8/13/18 3:02am]

[Edited 8/13/18 3:43am]

Someone wrote above that they've never delved this far into someone's musical collection.

I would have to agree with that. If you asked me to sit through roughly 40 albums of anyone else's music (let alone hundreds of hours of bootlegs) I would have to say No Thank You.

I dunno man, Prince saw the very summit, the top of everything in pop music, he had nowhere else to go except to follow his muse. While I prefer his 80's music to his other decades I figure he knew what he was doing by never completely lining up with pop culture again. I know he missed having hits and still wanted them but I don't think he was willing to make the compromises that would have been required from him in later years.

It took me years to "get" an album like New Power Soul, I used to think it was plastic rubbish but if you allow yourself to get into his mindset it starts to make sense. I'd rather have those experiences than, say, someone like Madonna who, although I think she can be great, always work in a very obvious way. She's always chasing a hit with the latest producers, it's all on the surface, and as a listener you move on pretty quickly.

[Edited 8/13/18 5:30am]

slida23 said:

I found Emancipation to be massively disappointing, especially considering there were 3 whole hours of music. I'm not sure that there is even one hour of essential Prince music on it. It was surprisingly conservative considering he no longer had to please record executives.

I suspect Prince, once he was free to release his music his way, wanted to prove a point (as with the single "The Most Beautiful Girl" which also fits with the bland conservative music construction mode). Prince wanted to also have a hit to prove that he could make it on his own, so he gambled on VH1 age audiences liking this kind of production, his housewife court entertainer period... complete with an appearance on Oprah.

It also fit with the expected child, and new family vibe he was hoping for.

But some crazy "Prince" tracks still got by... like "Slave".

1725topp said:

Of all artist out there, ever, Prince 'still is' some of a kind ! Let me explain.

First of all, I agree on basically all of what you write. I absolutely agree on 95%.

-

But.

Let me try to explain it from another more personal point of view on 'things' and life.

As I'm getting older, I start to understand and experience that life isn't all about trying to get 'better' and achieve 'more' etc. People are people, and they never change.

Because of that, I also started to look different at Prince and his huge body of work (same as with other artists too).

Most artist (unlike Prince) have or had the chance to get on repeat after successes made at a young age/stade. Most of them then had to deal with some sort of writers block, lack of creativity and input, etc.

Prince always wanted to change, to surprise, to be original to explore, to score, ànd prefered to move on. Yes he repeatedly played old hits live, but that was mere a question of pleasing fans as well as cashing in. It was his full right to do so. He needed that to get on with his stubborn chase for being new and discovering/creating new stuff.

He basically never suffered from creativity or ideas, only, (I personally think) his input from the outside was quite poor (look at his lyrics in general after 1992).

He lived kind of a reclusive life, worked all the time, never trusted anybody, etc. We all know the story so far.

The only time Prince got strong new suprising input from the outside world was when he fell in love with young Susanah and her (girl)friends. There he discovered all kinds of new things, he opened up, and the result was much more that we can ever imagined. And that somehow became also a standard for most of us early fans ! High standards.

Yes he had other people around him when after that who brought new ideas etc, but he already became that huge superstar. So people only provided him with what they thought and knew was 'ok', also to stay as long as possible in the Prince camp. Very different imho.

Now that's one thing.

-

Second.

It's simple. No one really can constantly produce good 'art' in a crescendo upworkng way.

Be it writing songs, painting or creating art, writing books, whatever.

Again, I do agree on your comments on how Prince's carreer went (for most of us).

And I hear most people here agree on that (except for the realy young new fans, and they are right too from theyr musical point of view).

But those (here) that are of my age (around 50 and olcer), they all come from that massive.

pop-'n-rock-icon period around that magical 1979-1989 era.

I've always been curious of new material being released.

But I've also always being shifted between dissapointment and pleasant some suprises.

-

Now I'm getting older, I understand it's all OK. The good and the bad.

Meaning that it's perfectly normal in fact to start as a young wild hound and be creative as fuck, write great tunes for some years.

But then when you made it and you're big, that doesn't nessecarely mean that it's all getting better. On the contrary mostly.

All big starts out there, had their massive creative period somewhere when they were younger.

(Of course, there are few others maybe that did different/better ...worse?)

But naming Prince, it's an absolute true wonder for what we all have from over the last 4 decades !! And, still don't know what's all to be found in these Vaults (yes, plural).

-

I now start to look back at those 90s and later outputs with great interests.

I have 'm all from when they were released on my shelve at home.

I now start to realise they're actually well worth a deeper listen.

I want to try and feel what he felt was good enough to release the way he did it.

Leaving behind the thought that it mostly wasn't to compare with his earlier stuff.

-

Like Hans Martin Buff said, "at one point he tried to be what was out there".

You can disike it and don't enjoy the massive output in it's whole, or you can try to discover the life of a 57 year old unstoppable creative soul, who certainly made some wrong decisions or made some productive mistakes, and have it the way it is left to all of us as a HUGE amount of great info to learn from, uncomparable and super interesting !

-

So I now started look different to Prince's later output.

Sure, some great written books released help me to see and hear more of it.

The stories that are still pooring out are absolutely great and super helpful.

-

Do I like the later releases more? Maybe.

But that's not the question i need to get an answer to.

It helps me to understand the whole, and the persona Prince much more.

And that alone is worth anything or any other musician out there, ever.

I don't want to be a Michael Jackson fan for that matter, with his limited great creative output.

And may he too rest in peace that wonderful soul. I love me some MJ from time to time too.

Without both of them, we would not have the Prince we knew all along (i think).

[Edited 8/13/18 9:12am]

onlyforaminute said:

Sorry he wasn't quite entertaining enough for you. Maybe in the next edition he'll get it just perfect to satisfy everybody's needs.

Well, it's not that he wasn't entertaining enough for me, I found him very entertaining, especially when I was young. He is the only "pop" artist whose records I bought. I just became increasingly frustrated with his output, and his decision making, I felt he was holding back. "Satisfying everyone's needs" became part of the problem. I only got to see him live once. If I had had the opportunity to do so I would have seen him live as much as possible right up until the end. This is really about his recorded output, which was the only way I could experience him.

Vannormal said:

Of all artist out there, ever, Prince 'still is' some of a kind ! Let me explain.

First of all, I agree on basically all of what you write. I absolutely agree on 95%.

-

But.

Let me try to explain it from another more personal point of view on 'things' and life.

As I'm getting older, I start to understand and experience that life isn't all about trying to get 'better' and achieve 'more' etc. People are people, and they never change.

Because of that, I also started to look different at Prince and his huge body of work (same as with other artists too).

Most artist (unlike Prince) have or had the chance to get on repeat after successes made at a young age/stade. Most of them then had to deal with some sort of writers block, lack of creativity and input, etc.

Prince always wanted to change, to surprise, to be original to explore, to score, ànd prefered to move on. Yes he repeatedly played old hits live, but that was mere a question of pleasing fans as well as cashing in. It was his full right to do so. He needed that to get on with his stubborn chase for being new and discovering/creating new stuff.

He basically never suffered from creativity or ideas, only, (I personally think) his input from the outside was quite poor (look at his lyrics in general after 1992).

He lived kind of a reclusive life, worked all the time, never trusted anybody, etc. We all know the story so far.

The only time Prince got strong new suprising input from the outside world was when he fell in love with young Susanah and her (girl)friends. There he discovered all kinds of new things, he opened up, and the result was much more that we can ever imagined. And that somehow became also a standard for most of us early fans ! High standards.

Yes he had other people around him when after that who brought new ideas etc, but he already became that huge superstar. So people only provided him with what they thought and knew was 'ok', also to stay as long as possible in the Prince camp. Very different imho.

Now that's one thing.

-

Second.

It's simple. No one really can constantly produce good 'art' in a crescendo upworkng way.

Be it writing songs, painting or creating art, writing books, whatever.

Again, I do agree on your comments on how Prince's carreer went (for most of us).

And I hear most people here agree on that (except for the realy young new fans, and they are right too from theyr musical point of view).

But those (here) that are of my age (around 50 and olcer), they all come from that massive.

pop-'n-rock-icon period around that magical 1979-1989 era.

I've always been curious of new material being released.

But I've also always being shifted between dissapointment and pleasant some suprises.

-

Now I'm getting older, I understand it's all OK. The good and the bad.

Meaning that it's perfectly normal in fact to start as a young wild hound and be creative as fuck, write great tunes for some years.

But then when you made it and you're big, that doesn't nessecarely mean that it's all getting better. On the contrary mostly.

All big starts out there, had their massive creative period somewhere when they were younger.

(Of course, there are few others maybe that did different/better ...worse?)

But naming Prince, it's an absolute true wonder for what we all have from over the last 4 decades !! And, still don't know what's all to be found in these Vaults (yes, plural).

-

I now start to look back at those 90s and later outputs with great interests.

I have 'm all from when they were released on my shelve at home.

I now start to realise they're actually well worth a deeper listen.

I want to try and feel what he felt was good enough to release the way he did it.

Leaving behind the thought that it mostly wasn't to compare with his earlier stuff.

-

Like Hans Martin Buff said, "at one point he tried to be what was out there".

You can disike it and don't enjoy the massive output in it's whole, or you can try to discover the life of a 57 year old unstoppable creative soul, who certainly made some wrong decisions or made some productive mistakes, and have it the way it is left to all of us as a HUGE amount of great info to learn from, uncomparable and super interesting !

-

So I now started look different to Prince's later output.

Sure, some great written books released help me to see and hear more of it.

The stories that are still pooring out are absolutely great and super helpful.

-

Do I like the later releases more? Maybe.

But that's not the question i need to get an answer to.

It helps me to understand the whole, and the persona Prince much more.

And that alone is worth anything or any other musician out there, ever.

I don't want to be a Michael Jackson fan for that matter, with his limited great creative output.

And may he too rest in peace that wonderful soul. I love me some MJ from time to time too.

Without both of them, we would not have the Prince we knew all along (i think).

[Edited 8/13/18 9:12am]

Well, I mostly agree. I would not expect 50+ yr old Prince to be breathing fire on a regular basis, but I felt the still fairly young Prince left a lot on the table to pursue continued relevance, and that is mostly what I made the post about. The man was so talented that he could do"pretty good" in his sleep, and his compulsion to constantly put out music diluted his legacy somewhat. I think if you went through every single thing he released, even up to the end, he probably has more excellent music than any other modern artist.

onlyforaminute said:

Sorry he wasn't quite entertaining enough for you. Maybe in the next edition he'll get it just perfect to satisfy everybody's needs.

Please stop.

slida23 said:

onlyforaminute said:

Sorry he wasn't quite entertaining enough for you. Maybe in the next edition he'll get it just perfect to satisfy everybody's needs.

Well, it's not that he wasn't entertaining enough for me, I found him very entertaining, especially when I was young. He is the only "pop" artist whose records I bought. I just became increasingly frustrated with his output, and his decision making, I felt he was holding back. "Satisfying everyone's needs" became part of the problem. I only got to see him live once. If I had had the opportunity to do so I would have seen him live as much as possible right up until the end. This is really about his recorded output, which was the only way I could experience him.

I agree with you

rusty1 said:

1725topp said:

I can only add that there is Prince music from the 90s, 00s, and 10s that I like as much as his 80s music. But, as always, to each his own. As has been said on this site hundreds of times, "One person's Lovesexy is another person's Dirty Mind, or Diamonds & Pearls, or The Gold Experience, or The Rainbow Children, and so on."

Nothing from his 90’s, 00’s, & 10’s comes close to his 80’s creativity. I keep saying it over & over again. Prince wouldn’t have been a legend without his 1980 to 87 era. Epecially between the yesrs of 1982 to 87. He was turning our so much good material between his music & the side projects as well.. At that time.. If Prince just would’ve stayed doing things his way from 1988 onward. Who knows how things would’ve turned out. He constantly put out awful second single choices from 1986 forward... Rap music was starting to get huge and i’ve read recently that’s what lead Prince too get away from his own sound to catching up with the trends.. Whether it was new jack swing, to adding an awful rapper and backup dancers to his band. Then he had that stupid name change that cost him a lot fans he had built until 1992.. Prince spent too many yrs fighting the Wb that his music suffered creatively from it. “Emancipation” was good overall but nothing groundbreaking. When Prince lost his baby that put him in a very dark place. He was on Oprah acting as if their baby was still alive. He did the Love4oneanother tour still performing the same way and cursing etc. Larry Graham started opening up for him on the second leg of that tour. He tried pushing his JW ideas on Prince& his band. When Prince did “Face down” larry never liked it. He told Larry it was an artistic statement. At this time in 1997, Prince was of course still in pain over the loss of his child. That is where things changed musically for him again. When Prince converted there was no longer that God, love, to sex songs where he would keep a listener consistently on edge again. His songs became much more safer & tamer overall. The bottom line is every one has there creative peaks. Prince had his from 80 to 87. After that time period, Prince had some really good albums but had others which had half baked ideas.

*

What you state would make sense, but only a few folks like me actually purchased Dirty Mind when it was initially released? Dirty Mind didn't actually get certified as gold until after Purple Rain. As such, does that mean that his creative peak was just 82 - 85? I get it; you like the so-called golden age of Prince, which is considered the 80s. However, not everything that Prince did in that so-called golden age is great, especially songs like "I Wonder U," which, for me, is a monumental waste of space. Also, you see the name change as stupid. During the time, I thought it was funny, creative, and purely Prince because I didn't give a shit about mass appeal because, again, I was there from For You to Purple Rain, when being a Prince fan wasn't some mainstream bs. And this whole bullshit narrative about Prince becoming safer and tamer is just from folks who differ religiously or are anti-religion or anti-Christian and who resented Prince using his art and time to address the specific oppression of African Americans. I would assert that Prince was even more creative and bold into the 90s because he was no longer playing it safe when it came to addressing specific and tangible socio-political issues, especially as it related to African Americans. Only about three or four of Prince's 80s albums can be ranked above The Rainbow Children as it is musically, vocally, and lyrically superior to much of his 80s work. It's a much more musically diverse and well-crafted record than For You, Prince, Dirty Mind, Controversy, and Parade. But, of course, far too many of Prince's fans wanted him to remain their racially ambiguous overly sexualized nymph child rather than becoming an African American artist boldly using his work to address the oppression of black folks. So, yeah, I get it. Whenever a person decides that there are more important things to life than sex, then that person becomes tame, safe, and half-baked.

slida23 said:

artists shelf life is barely 5 albums.....he surpassed everyone....why complain

slida, several of your points are legitimate, and widely accepted: namely, that LoveSexy capped his Prince's artistic and commercial peak, and that his output for the next three decades was mixed, relative to the quality of the work he'd produced in the 80s. i'd suspect that a majority of Orgers are with you on that.

your song and album preferences are far from definitive, and mainly matters of taste.

in the big picture, it is hard for any artist to maintain a flow of quality music for four decades, whether it is song-to-song, or album-to-album. Prince did that, albeit (imo) in fits and spurts.

we also can't reach conclusions on The Prince We Never Quite Got, because we don't know the Prince We Will Ultimately Get. there is still a lot of music waiting to be released.

1725topp says:

"...But, of course, far too many of Prince's fans wanted him to remain their racially ambiguous overly sexualized nymph child rather than becoming an African American artist boldly using his work to address the oppression of black folks. So, yeah, I get it. Whenever a person decides that there are more important things to life than sex, then that person becomes tame, safe, and half-baked."

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true....so very true

Slida23-

Your entire post, though well explained, speaks ENTIRELY to your own bias, tastes, and wish fulfillment requests. The fact is, Prince took risks, pushed himself, stretched his artform, and followed the beat of his own drum until his death.

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Everyone else:

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An argument could be made that Prince's post 80's material was a good as his earlier stuff. Hell, some of his post 80's music WAS actually from the 80's. The issue becomes time. Time affects how we (the audience respond to art. Example: The song "Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic" would be received by us differently had it been released in '88 instead of '99.

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Prince's commercial success had LESS to do with the quality (subjective term) of his music and more to do with the promotion and record company fuckery.

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I believe his most commerically successful albums are from 1984, 1989, 1991, and 2004. What do all of these have in common? Excellent promotional strategies. To me, the argument that quality of music equates to commercial success has always been laughable and I am suprised that people around here subscribe to that notion.

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Lastly, it's AMAZING to me that people are going to think that somehow we got something "less than" with Prince. He is (arguably) the greatest musical force in pop music history. Yet, some are bemoaning that we didn't get some other kind of hypothetical popular musical genius. It's like looking at the stars in the sky, shining their light on us from billions of miles away, and simply proclaiming, "meh." Aw buddy, what a fuckin' waste....

[Edited 8/14/18 15:48pm]

[Edited 8/14/18 15:49pm]

onlyforaminute said:

slida23 said:

Well, it's not that he wasn't entertaining enough for me, I found him very entertaining, especially when I was young. He is the only "pop" artist whose records I bought. I just became increasingly frustrated with his output, and his decision making, I felt he was holding back. "Satisfying everyone's needs" became part of the problem. I only got to see him live once. If I had had the opportunity to do so I would have seen him live as much as possible right up until the end. This is really about his recorded output, which was the only way I could experience him.

Yeah but these long critiquing essays have become so unoriginal and repetitive over these last 10 years. Great you have an opinion. Or do you? It's very hard to tell anymore if people are just parroting or not. It all starts sounding the same.

Well, I've never posted here before, and I am nearly completely alone in my Prince fandom out here in 3D. If this idea has been posted so repeatedly that you are bored with it, it must have some merit. I personally find "Prince is awesome!!" to be considerably more tiresome than thoughtful criticism.

Wait a minute. Outta all the responses on this thread you've only responded to me and one other person, wat up wit dat?

skywalker said:

Slida23-

Your entire post, though well explained, speaks ENTIRELY to your own bias, tastes, and wish fulfillment requests. The fact is, Prince took risks, pushed himself, stretched his artform, and followed the beat of his own drum until his death.

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Obviously it's just my opinion. As someone who listened to his music rather intensely for a long period, and had my musical horizons greatly expanded by doing so, I have a good idea of what he was capable of vs what he often chose to do.

RJOrion said:

1725topp says:

"...But, of course, far too many of Prince's fans wanted him to remain their racially ambiguous overly sexualized nymph child rather than becoming an African American artist boldly using his work to address the oppression of black folks. So, yeah, I get it. Whenever a person decides that there are more important things to life than sex, then that person becomes tame, safe, and half-baked."

---------------------------

true....so very true

I'm not sure how valid this statement is, but I can only speak for myself. I thought "The Rainbow Children" was perhaps his most cohesive, focused work of his career(if a little on the long side), and though it's "mellow" in comparison to Prince's salad days, the music is fantastic. It's hard for me to imagine that a real Prince fan would abandon him just because he grew up and wanted to address his blackness in a more direct way.

slida23 said:

onlyforaminute said:

slida23 said: Yeah but these long critiquing essays have become so unoriginal and repetitive over these last 10 years. Great you have an opinion. Or do you? It's very hard to tell anymore if people are just parroting or not. It all starts sounding the same.

Well, I've never posted here before, and I am nearly completely alone in my Prince fandom out here in 3D. If this idea has been posted so repeatedly that you are bored with it, it must have some merit. I personally find "Prince is awesome!!" to be considerably more tiresome than thoughtful criticism.

Nope. With me I need to see some real Prince knowledge credentials first before taking anyone seriously who immediately jumps in with some reworked regurgitated criticisms. That's just too easy, since nowadays criticism is somehow seen as an automatic sign of higher knowledge.

slida23 said:

skywalker said:

Slida23-

Your entire post, though well explained, speaks ENTIRELY to your own bias, tastes, and wish fulfillment requests. The fact is, Prince took risks, pushed himself, stretched his artform, and followed the beat of his own drum until his death.

-

Obviously it's just my opinion. As someone who listened to his music rather intensely for a long period, and had my musical horizons greatly expanded by doing so, I have a good idea of what he was capable of vs what he often chose to do.

Sure, but you only saw him in concert once. Often what he was "capable of" was displayed more prominently there. Prince recorded EVERY live performance he ever did. Perhaps those will all see the light and you'll be "satisified." In the mean time, how can you fault the guy for following his muse instead of your wishes/hopes?

slida23 said:

onlyforaminute said:

slida23 said: Yeah but these long critiquing essays have become so unoriginal and repetitive over these last 10 years. Great you have an opinion. Or do you? It's very hard to tell anymore if people are just parroting or not. It all starts sounding the same.

Well, I've never posted here before, and I am nearly completely alone in my Prince fandom out here in 3D. If this idea has been posted so repeatedly that you are bored with it, it must have some merit. I personally find "Prince is awesome!!" to be considerably more tiresome than thoughtful criticism.

Slida-Please do take the above poster with a grain of salt.

As a first time poster, welcome. It can get a little rough here at times