Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

Looks like it.

Ok. Going thru reports. See where most of the pills were found? Det. Wagner says nothing of investigative interest found on east side ( second floor) .Moving forward, west and south we go,unless they were alreqdy collected.

If we are assuming that KJ, Meron and the psuedo addiction specialist found him downstairs ( which I believe ) we may be able to narrow a few things down.

1. Were any pills found downstairs?

2. Where in relation are the pills upstairs (if any were found upstairs) to the elevator which is on the north side? (It seems as though the pills are in the south , west or north quadrants of the complex).

3. Moreso, where were the 853's found( this is the one opiate that supposedly contained the toxic levels of fent.

4. Were they any traces of pills/ residue between the elevator and any of the rooms /floors?

5. If the feeding took place upstairs , he was still cognizant and engaged mentally in order to push the button down. By all accounts, he did so,( unless the elevator was fixed to do so automatically). But he did not make it out . We would have to calculate how many seconds it would have taken that elevator to go downstairs. This is a very short period of time .

6. Between pushing the button and riding the elevator down, the summary seems to shift to instantaneous death. Meaning :he was no longer capable of taking one single step outside of it.

**The door must have opened automatically and his body discovered as reported. What is interesting is the position of the body. How was it found by KJ?

Here ya go Bodhi.

Menes said:

When you enter you procede down a short way, passed the stairs and the elevator is to the right, under the staircase.

purplefam99 said:

Menes said:

So ,is the elevator on the north side as you enter...off to the right?

When you enter you procede down a short way, passed the stairs and the elevator is to the right, under the staircase.

Yes, that was the part that was covered up, correct?

Menes said:

Correct it is boxed in on two sides now but before it was open on two sides
It was an alcove prior.

Menes said:

The way the body has been shown seems like he was headed into the elevator not out due to the direction of his body. Seems to me.

PennyPurple said:

Here ya go Bodhi.

thanks Penny, do we know the distance from this bed to the elebator?

purplefam99 said:

Menes said:

If we are assuming that KJ, Meron and the psuedo addiction specialist found him downstairs ( which I believe ) we may be able to narrow a few things down.

1. Were any pills found downstairs?

2. Where in relation are the pills upstairs (if any were found upstairs) to the elevator which is on the north side? (It seems as though the pills are in the south , west or north quadrants of the complex).

3. Moreso, where were the 853's found( this is the one opiate that supposedly contained the toxic levels of fent.

4. Were they any traces of pills/ residue between the elevator and any of the rooms /floors?

5. If the feeding took place upstairs , he was still cognizant and engaged mentally in order to push the button down. By all accounts, he did so,( unless the elevator was fixed to do so automatically). But he did not make it out . We would have to calculate how many seconds it would have taken that elevator to go downstairs. This is a very short period of time .

6. Between pushing the button and riding the elevator down, the summary seems to shift to instantaneous death. Meaning :he was no longer capable of taking one single step outside of it.

**The door must have opened automatically and his body discovered as reported. What is interesting is the position of the body. How was it found by KJ?

The way the body has been shown seems like he was headed into the elevator not out due to the direction of his body. Seems to me.

Hmmm. As in, He walks in and does not turn around ? Is it your assessment that the elevator never went down?

I am more intereseted in what position KJ found him in as opposed to how the detectives/Medics found the body.

Menes said:

purplefam99 said:

Menes said: The way the body has been shown seems like he was headed into the elevator not out due to the direction of his body. Seems to me.

Hmmm. As in, He walks in and does not turn around ? Is it your assessment that the elevator never went down?

I am more interested in what position KJ found him in as opposed to how the detectives/Medics found the body.

Just to add... It is entirely possible that the elevator never left the ground floor. Which would beg the question... why get in it? He obviously was laboring by the time he got in there so going back upstairs( whether for help or disorientation) would seem far fetched, unless of course...

This is why we probably need to find out the location of items in relation to the elevator.

Menes said:

Menes said:

Ok. Going thru reports. See where most of the pills were found? Det. Wagner says nothing of investigative interest found on east side ( second floor) .Moving forward, west and south we go,unless they were alreqdy collected.

If we are assuming that KJ, Meron and the psuedo addiction specialist found him downstairs ( which I believe ) we may be able to narrow a few things down.

1. Were any pills found downstairs?

2. Where in relation are the pills upstairs (if any were found upstairs) to the elevator which is on the north side? (It seems as though the pills are in the south , west or north quadrants of the complex).

3. Moreso, where were the 853's found( this is the one opiate that supposedly contained the toxic levels of fent.

4. Were they any traces of pills/ residue between the elevator and any of the rooms /floors?

5. If the feeding took place upstairs , he was still cognizant and engaged mentally in order to push the button down. By all accounts, he did so,( unless the elevator was fixed to do so automatically). But he did not make it out . We would have to calculate how many seconds it would have taken that elevator to go downstairs. This is a very short period of time .

6. Between pushing the button and riding the elevator down, the summary seems to shift to instantaneous death. Meaning :he was no longer capable of taking one single step outside of it.

**The door must have opened automatically and his body discovered as reported. What is interesting is the position of the body. How was it found by KJ?

Most elevators that I know of, the door doesn't stay open it closes and stays in position.

So if Meron, KJ, and Andrew K walked in thru the lobby the elevator would be on the right, if the door was open, surely they would've seen him.

Andrew stated that Meron took him to the larger office of the larger recording studio, the officer stated it was on the West side. Wouldn't that have been the production office? But if the lobby is on the North side, that wouldn't have been on the west side.

Andrew also said that when he seen Prince he was laying on his left side, like he just went to sleep IN the elevator. Now if he was on his left side with the feet facing to the back of the elevator the LE would have just pulled him out like he was, which was head towards the door. If he was on his left side with head facing back and feet towards the door, when they pulled him out they wouldn't have turned him, the pulled him out like the found him, which tells me he just stepped on the elevator and didn't have time to turn around and face front.

Is that right?

Also, when Meron was left with Andrew, KJ could've went to take the elevator and when he pushed the button, there he was. Didn't KJ go back to get Meron and when she seen Prince is when she screamed and Andrew went to where the scream came from.

Menes said:

Menes said:

Hmmm. As in, He walks in and does not turn around ? Is it your assessment that the elevator never went down?

I am more interested in what position KJ found him in as opposed to how the detectives/Medics found the body.

Just to add... It is entirely possible that the elevator never left the ground floor. Which would beg the question... why get in it? He obviously was laboring by the time he got in there so going back upstairs( whether for help or disorientation) would seem far fetched, unless of course...

This is why we probably need to find out the location of items in relation to the elevator.

The pills weren't found on the ground floor. So I think he was going down to the ground floor after taking the pills upstairs and he stepped in the elevator and didn't even have time to turn around to face the door.

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

Just to add... It is entirely possible that the elevator never left the ground floor. Which would beg the question... why get in it? He obviously was laboring by the time he got in there so going back upstairs( whether for help or disorientation) would seem far fetched, unless of course...

This is why we probably need to find out the location of items in relation to the elevator.

The pills weren't found on the ground floor. So I think he was going down to the ground floor after taking the pills upstairs and he stepped in the elevator and didn't even have time to turn around to face the door.

So he gets in, never turns to face the doors( where one would push the button and thereby engaging the elevator), yet ends up on the 1st floor? Someone had to engage the elevator , (meaning he is still aware/cognizant). Thoughts?

If Meron took Andrew to the Production Office when they entered the lobby they would've turned left. The stair case with elevator is straight ahead on the right. So they would'nt have passed the elevator.

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

The pills weren't found on the ground floor. So I think he was going down to the ground floor after taking the pills upstairs and he stepped in the elevator and didn't even have time to turn around to face the door.

So he gets in, never turns to face the doors( where one would push the button and thereby engaging the elevator), yet ends up on the 1st floor? Someone had to engage the elevator , (meaning he is still aware/cognizant). Thoughts?

You would push the button to go down from the outside, if there are no other buttons to push on the inside because it's just 1 floor it would just go down, right? Because it's just 1 floor and there would be no buttons needed on the inside??

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

If we are assuming that KJ, Meron and the psuedo addiction specialist found him downstairs ( which I believe ) we may be able to narrow a few things down.

1. Were any pills found downstairs?

2. Where in relation are the pills upstairs (if any were found upstairs) to the elevator which is on the north side? (It seems as though the pills are in the south , west or north quadrants of the complex).

3. Moreso, where were the 853's found( this is the one opiate that supposedly contained the toxic levels of fent.

4. Were they any traces of pills/ residue between the elevator and any of the rooms /floors?

5. If the feeding took place upstairs , he was still cognizant and engaged mentally in order to push the button down. By all accounts, he did so,( unless the elevator was fixed to do so automatically). But he did not make it out . We would have to calculate how many seconds it would have taken that elevator to go downstairs. This is a very short period of time .

6. Between pushing the button and riding the elevator down, the summary seems to shift to instantaneous death. Meaning :he was no longer capable of taking one single step outside of it.

**The door must have opened automatically and his body discovered as reported. What is interesting is the position of the body. How was it found by KJ?

Most elevators that I know of, the door doesn't stay open it closes and stays in position.

So if Meron, KJ, and Andrew K walked in thru the lobby the elevator would be on the right, if the door was open, surely they would've seen him.

Andrew stated that Meron took him to the larger office of the larger recording studio, the officer stated it was on the West side. Wouldn't that have been the production office? But if the lobby is on the North side, that wouldn't have been on the west side.

Andrew also said that when he seen Prince he was laying on his left side, like he just went to sleep IN the elevator. Now if he was on his left side with the feet facing to the back of the elevator the LE would have just pulled him out like he was, which was head towards the door. If he was on his left side with head facing back and feet towards the door, when they pulled him out they wouldn't have turned him, the pulled him out like the found him, which tells me he just stepped on the elevator and didn't have time to turn around and face front.

Is that right?

Also, when Meron was left with Andrew, KJ could've went to take the elevator and when he pushed the button, there he was. Didn't KJ go back to get Meron and when she seen Prince is when she screamed and Andrew went to where the scream came from.

Except that the elevator must be told what to do when the doors close. Unless it was an auto engaging elevator, someone has to tell it where you want to go.

In regards to which side he was on, I haven't found what position KJ found him in. I am thinking that regardless of which side he was on, he had to engage the elevator. The elevator would have remained on the second floor until a board command is given to proceed to "x" place ( as in to descend). I don't think he died instantaneously.

No, I'm wrong, that might be a 3 floor elevator. The top floor was his quarters, the middle floor was lobby and the bottom floor would've been the garage, wouldn't it? Here are the buttons. It has an up and down button.

[Edited 6/24/18 7:31am]

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

So he gets in, never turns to face the doors( where one would push the button and thereby engaging the elevator), yet ends up on the 1st floor? Someone had to engage the elevator , (meaning he is still aware/cognizant). Thoughts?

You would push the button to go down from the outside, if there are no other buttons to push on the inside because it's just 1 floor it would just go down, right? Because it's just 1 floor and there would be no buttons needed on the inside??

Remember the video I posted of the elevator when they were in it doing the tour?

I haven't seen anything where KJ said what position he found him in, but did read that when Andrew saw him he was in the elevator on his left side.

If rigor had set in, it would be kinda hard for KJ to move him, wouldn't it?

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

You would push the button to go down from the outside, if there are no other buttons to push on the inside because it's just 1 floor it would just go down, right? Because it's just 1 floor and there would be no buttons needed on the inside??

Remember the video I posted of the elevator when they were in it doing the tour?

She had to engage the elevator from the inside , I thought.

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

You would push the button to go down from the outside, if there are no other buttons to push on the inside because it's just 1 floor it would just go down, right? Because it's just 1 floor and there would be no buttons needed on the inside??

Remember the video I posted of the elevator when they were in it doing the tour?

Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember it.

PennyPurple said:

I haven't seen anything where KJ said what position he found him in, but did read that when Andrew saw him he was in the elevator on his left side.

If rigor had set in, it would be kinda hard for KJ to move him, wouldn't it?

That is contingent on the amount of hours he was already dead . Time dictates different stages of rigormortis.

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

Remember the video I posted of the elevator when they were in it doing the tour?

Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember it.

Yea, you step in, doors close, you engage, elevator ascends/descends. I really don't think he died instantaneously. Which begs the question... who came up with the metabolic rate that determined that he died instantaneously? Instant , is instant. He would have had to have taken the "pill"/pills in the elevator to support anything resembling the word"instant'. Not buying the instant business..

Why is there no mention of how many pills he actually took? There is a log of all the pills found but no official mention of how many pills were tested that had the quantative amount of fent in them. Specifically the 853'(?) Thoughts?

Menes said:

PennyPurple said:

Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember it.

Yea, you step in, doors close, you engage, elevator ascends/descends. I really don't think he died instantaneously. Which begs the question... who came up with the metabolic rate that determined that he died instantaneously? Instant , is instant. He would have had to have taken the "pill"/pills in the elevator to support anything resembling the word"instant'. Not buying the instant business..

Why is there no mention of how many pills he actually took? There is a log of all the pills found but no official mention of how many pills were tested that had the quantative amount of fent in them. Specifically the 853'(?) Thoughts?

The 'instant' scenario is what initially led me to believe suicide staged in the elevator for symbolic/dramatic effect, along with the backward clothes.

But if the metabolic thesis can't be made..we have to reconsider. I think the 'instant' scenario was in response to the astounding levels of fent in his body. Remember when some swore if you even touched one pill you would die? At that point in the investigation, very soon after he died, there was enormous resistance to accepting that he was an addict with a long history with fent so the murder theories were raised, and his personal tolerance to fent was aggressively denied.

With regard to ascending or descending in the elevator...we cannot discount the confusion caused by the toxicity...with regard to where his stash was in relation to the elevator...maybe he had it in his hand, said goodby to Studio A....entered the elevator...and just did it...

Menes said:

I think the elevator never went up.
Confused why he would chose to go back up if he was in distress.

I know the doves are to your right as you exit the elevator on the the top floor.

Any mention of them in relation to the other rooms.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Is this legitimate? I wouldn't put it past anyone around him to have taken it and rip it up.

https://hollywoodlife-com...verdose%2F

Just wondering because I didn't see it anywhere in the documents:
Does the elevator only have one door? Some elevators open from the front and the back which means there would be a control panel both in front and behind the person in the elevator no matter which way a person was facing.

Example:
Hospital elevator in my town has doors opening on both sides. Both doors don't necessarily open on all floors, but once it is down(or up) to the parking garage, both doors open.

Just a thought.

kmama07 said:

Great point! The top and garage floor doors could have two doors.
Which could explain the body positioning.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Menes said:

Yea, you step in, doors close, you engage, elevator ascends/descends. I really don't think he died instantaneously. Which begs the question... who came up with the metabolic rate that determined that he died instantaneously? Instant , is instant. He would have had to have taken the "pill"/pills in the elevator to support anything resembling the word"instant'. Not buying the instant business..

Why is there no mention of how many pills he actually took? There is a log of all the pills found but no official mention of how many pills were tested that had the quantative amount of fent in them. Specifically the 853'(?) Thoughts?

The 'instant' scenario is what initially led me to believe suicide staged in the elevator for symbolic/dramatic effect, along with the backward clothes.

But if the metabolic thesis can't be made..we have to reconsider. I think the 'instant' scenario was in response to the astounding levels of fent in his body. Remember when some swore if you even touched one pill you would die? At that point in the investigation, very soon after he died, there was enormous resistance to accepting that he was an addict with a long history with fent so the murder theories were raised, and his personal tolerance to fent was aggressively denied.

With regard to ascending or descending in the elevator...we cannot discount the confusion caused by the toxicity...with regard to where his stash was in relation to the elevator...maybe he had it in his hand, said goodby to Studio A....entered the elevator...and just did it...

So hear me out on this:

The idea that Prince did not know what he was taking, yet did everything but color coded his bottles with spray paint , is a non starter for me.

A week after the first overdose, there is no indication that Prince had the time/made the time (considering all of the scrutiny) to go "shopping" for any additional substances that was not found in that house on the 21st.

Therefore, Prince would have had to have been the most unluckiest of fellows to use from the same batch previously, and then return in short order to miraculously pick out that one nasty pill out of the same entire batch a following day . I do not believe it was one pill. Most addicts are susceptible to drug toxicity because they combine things. He would be no different in my eyes.


Now, interestingly enough, if the DEA, and all of the other agencies knew that he got the fentanyl from any of the pills that were confiscated, do we think that they would release the exact manufactured pill that it was? When have we heard of such a thing? It would become the next big rage amongst every addict and pusher in the Midwest /nationwide the day after that was released. Have you heard anythng about 853's showing up in great abundance ? Yet, they released the contents of PP which included :the 853's, knowing it is an opiate that can be abused... Why would they do that? There is something missing here.

If we knew how many of the pills were officially tested, that would clear things up. Either there were numerous pills that had levels of fentanyl in them ( which would mean he was already aware that there was fentanyl in said pills) or, as previously stated, he was a very unlucky person in Minnesota that day (considering that no one else is overdosing from 853's laced with deadly amounts fentanyl since then).

There was/is no great rush( never has been ) to "cop" 853's that would induce symptoms close to an overdose in great numbers. The dealers must have missed that memo. However, there were "pills" that hit the Midwest in 2015 that were producing a remarkable amount of overdoses in small towns in Minn. None of them were publicly labeled. They all contained very high levels of fentanyl and some in fact was just fentanyl (and sold as such).

Now, as to the confusion with the elevator. It is quite possible that he was confused , but I believe that he was cognizant because of what has to happen when you enter an elevator. There must be some cognitive mechanism at work here. A mechanism that tells you that you must engage the machine to go somewhere. Where was he going? Why did he step into it in the first place? He didnt die and then have a thought to go into the elevator , he died in it. He is processing information and knew what the purpose of this thing was. This is why we need to find out the relative distance between the pills and the elevator. I don't believe he fed all over that place. They are very fixed when in "use" mode. They have very familiar spots and surroundings that generate a very peaceful and secure environment. There is one place, a place in relation to the elevator, and one reason he went in it. We just have to put it all together.


Just saying...

[Edited 6/23/18 17:58pm]

Just got thru looking at the pics of the elevator and it only has the 1 door.

It did have 3 levels, B, *1, 2

Also I forgot the vomit on the inside of the elevator which was on the door, and looking at the rug placement he would've fell with his head facing the door, just like they pulled him out.

[Edited 6/23/18 17:55pm]

[Edited 6/23/18 17:57pm]

Menes said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

The 'instant' scenario is what initially led me to believe suicide staged in the elevator for symbolic/dramatic effect, along with the backward clothes.

But if the metabolic thesis can't be made..we have to reconsider. I think the 'instant' scenario was in response to the astounding levels of fent in his body. Remember when some swore if you even touched one pill you would die? At that point in the investigation, very soon after he died, there was enormous resistance to accepting that he was an addict with a long history with fent so the murder theories were raised, and his personal tolerance to fent was aggressively denied.

With regard to ascending or descending in the elevator...we cannot discount the confusion caused by the toxicity...with regard to where his stash was in relation to the elevator...maybe he had it in his hand, said goodby to Studio A....entered the elevator...and just did it...

So hear me out on this:

The idea that Prince did not know what he was taking, yet did everything but color coded his bottles with spray paint , is a non starter for me.

A week after the first overdose, there is no indication that Prince had the time/made the time (considering all of the scrutiny) to go "shopping" for any additional substances that was not found in that house on the 21st.

Therefore, Prince would have had to have been the most unluckiest of fellows to use from the same batch previously, and then return in short order to miraculously pick out that one nasty pill out of the same entire batch a following day . I do not believe it was one pill. Most addicts are susceptible to drug toxicity because they combine things. He would be no different in my eyes.


Now, interestingly enough, if the DEA, and all of the other agencies knew that he got the fentanyl from any of the pills that were confiscated, do we think that they would release the exact manufactured pill that it was? When have we heard of such a thing? It would become the next big rage amongst every addict and pusher in the Midwest /nationwide the day after that was released. Have you heard anythng about 853's showing up in great abundance ? Yet, they released the contents of PP which included :the 853's, knowing it is an opiate that can be abused... Why would they do that? There is something missing here.

If we knew how many of the pills were officially tested, that would clear things up. Either there were numerous pills that had levels of fentanyl in them ( which would mean he was already aware that there was fentanyl in said pills) or, as previously stated, he was a very unlucky person in Minnesota that day (considering that no one else is overdosing from 853's laced with deadly amounts fentanyl since then).

There was/is no great rush( never has been ) to "cop" 853's that would induce symptoms close to an overdose in great numbers. The dealers must have missed that memo. However, there were "pills" that hit the Midwest in 2015 that were producing a remarkable amount of overdoses in small towns in Minn. None of them were publicly labeled. They all contained very high levels of fentanyl and some in fact was just fentanyl (and sold as such).

Now, as to the confusion with the elevator. It is quite possible that he was confused , but I believe that he was cognizant because of what has to happen when you enter an elevator. There must be some cognitive mechanism at work here. A mechanism that tells you that you must engage the machine to go somewhere. Where was he going? Why did he step into it in the first place? He didnt die and then have a thought to go into the elevator , he died in it. He is processing information and knew what the purpose of this thing was. This is why we need to find out the relative distance between the pills and the elevator. I don't believe he fed all over that place. They are very fixed when in "use" mode. They have very familiar spots and surroundings that generate a very peaceful and secure environment. There is one place, a place in relation to the elevator, and one reason he went in it. We just have to put it all together.


Just saying...

[Edited 6/23/18 17:58pm]

has it ever been established in which direction the elevator was heading? also, with regard to functioning cognition: whether he was on the move to seek help, lay down in his bed, say goodby to Studio A...whatever...Prince was clearly EITHER playing Russian Roulette with his pills OR did.not.care.anymore.period.

If he valued his life, he would have checked into a lock-down rehab the day after Moline. Prince was a smart man, he knew his drugs and he knew his body and I believe he knew he was in big trouble physically and (in his mind, at least) big trouble re the Prince persona after the narcan shots.

He was checked out and then he checked out.In retrospect after Moline, it almost seems inevitable.