herb4 said:

rdhull said:

Loose is awesome NIN influenced. Wish he did a whole album of tracks like this.

You think so? I don't hear it.

I'd say The Black Album was as close as he got to what you're describing. Or maybe parts of Emancipation (Slave, Human Body, New World). Only thing I ever heard him really do that recalled NiN was the outro to "In This Bed I Scream" and certain parts of Rave, which everyone seems to hate.

[Edited 6/21/18 15:40pm]

The Black Album is literally called "the funk bible" in the opening chords of "Le Grind". It's about the furthest things from Nine Inch Nails.

So, U found me
Good, I'm glad
This is Prince - the cool of cools
Some of U may not know this, but some of U may know
Some of U may not want 2 know
We are here 2 give U service
Please don't try 2 stop us 4 we come regardless
4 we are as strong as we are intelligent
So come vibe with us
Funk Bible - the New Testament

However, RD is right. The darker industrial touches ("Loose!" notwithstanding) definitely have a nod to NIN, even if unintentional. If NIN did a funk album, it'd sound like COME.

databank said:

NorthC said:

databank said:

If nothing else, Prince had too much of an ego to dislike his own work. He played many of those songs live in 93-94,and included several in the TBE film with music videos. As for suggesting he should have included TMBGITW in it, it's absurd as the song was one that, conceptually, couldn't be moved from TGE to Come. However he overplsyed the fact that TGE was held hostage by WB so it's possible that he also allowed Come to be released first so that he could play drama queen and bash WB day in day out, you have a point there. But using the record to sabotage the deal does not mean Prince saw it as a filler. Come was a very personal record and it's assuming a lot than to assume Prince disliked it.

I don't think he disliked it, the fact that he kept reworking the songs (and if I don't like the results, that's just me) meant that he took the project seriously. And yes, he played the songs live before the album was out, but not afterwards. Same with The Gold Experience. He had a habit in those days of promoting albums before they were out and losing interest once they were. I really enjoyed hearing songs like Days of Wild and Interactive etc on the radio and on bootleg in 94, it was exciting, but everything was just dragged out to the point that when those albums came out, it was like, why bother. And yes, that meant that his music was becoming less interesting. When we talk about this period, all the drama and confusion are part of it, even if some of the music was still good. In fact, I like his 93-95 music a whole lot better than his 89-92 music. So in a way, this whole quest for artistic freedom was inspiring and confusing at the same time.

For me it was all very inspirational. I was 17 when the radio tapes, the TBE film and Come got released. The way Prince reclaimed his artistic freedom, his status as an underground artist playing weird music in clubs and how that man who had worked so hard to become one of the world's biggest superstar in the D&P era (and ever before) suddenly deconstructed it all to go all Dirty Mind again was fascinating to me. I found the music extremely interesting, still do. The live shows he gave in those clubs, with the reduced NPG, in 94-95 was very avant-garde with all the samples and odd songs: if had been a new, underground act instead of a superstar swimming against his own tide, the world would have been in awe. I certainly was in awe! The studio versions are more polished because of Prince being Prince, but yet if you listen to Race, The Exodus Has Begun, What's My Name or Hide The Bone among others, the music was wild as hell... that shit was insane! Of course when compared to the music from 1980-1986 it sound much less idiosyncratic but while part of it is that Prince was following the trends instead of making them, it could be argued that it was also because was doing things... an artist named Prince had done before! "My only competition is me in the past", he would later sing. People tend to forget that Dirty Mind or Purple Rain were not only making the zeitgeist of the early 80's, it was also following it to some extent: the new wave explosion and second British Invasion, the neo romantic looks... it didn't come off nowhere, the Prince of the early 80's was also following trends to some extent.

.

One thing remains that in 1994, few artists managed to merge programming, samples and live music on stage with that level of complexity. Maybe some electronic acts like YMO (their 1993 tour comes to mind), but that was an entirely different musical universe: in the world of R&B, no one did that. Few people were aware of what Prince was doing on stage at that time, him playing mostly clubs and all, with few to no live recordings or videos available to the general public from those shows. I don't wanna force my views upon others, maybe some older fans found it all much less interesting than I did, but I really feel privileged to have been a Prince fans in those years even though I missed the "classic" era because I was too young, and I feel like testifying about how cool it was. The name change, the rebellion against the music industry, the clothes... but first and foremost the music. No matter how much I love 80's music, I cannot claim it my own. The 90's was my generation's decade, and God knows I would soon embrace the European electronic music revolution like crazy. But Prince the musician from those years, I'm proud I was there to hear it!

.

[Edited 6/22/18 17:46pm]

For me, I have grown to appreciate Come more over time. When it first came out, I did feel disappointed. It just didn't match the near impossibly high standard of so much of his previous work. I do like most of the songs, especially Dark, Lettigo, Space, and Race. Even if all the other songs on the album were great, Orgasm would spoil the overall greatness of the album. I could get through listening Purple and Gold 5 times (okay maybe just 4) before I would sit through 1 listen to Orgasm. I get that he needed an Orgasm to complete the Come album, but I just wish he would have made a better Orgasm to top things off. I better stop.......

gandorb said:

For me, I have grown to appreciate Come more over time. When it first came out, I did feel disappointed. It just didn't match the near impossibly high standard of so much of his previous work. I do like most of the songs, especially Dark, Lettigo, Space, and Race. Even if all the other songs on the album were great, Orgasm would spoil the overall greatness of the album. I could get through listening Purple and Gold 5 times (okay maybe just 4) before I would sit through 1 listen to Orgasm. I get that he needed an Orgasm to complete the Come album, but I just wish he would have made a better Orgasm to top things off. I better stop.......

I fail to see how anyone, male or female, straight or gay, could possibly NOT want to hear an orgasm by Vanity, who may have been the sexiest woman to ever walk this earth.

God, I wish I had the video, too!

databank said:

NorthC said:

databank said: I don't think he disliked it, the fact that he kept reworking the songs (and if I don't like the results, that's just me) meant that he took the project seriously. And yes, he played the songs live before the album was out, but not afterwards. Same with The Gold Experience. He had a habit in those days of promoting albums before they were out and losing interest once they were. I really enjoyed hearing songs like Days of Wild and Interactive etc on the radio and on bootleg in 94, it was exciting, but everything was just dragged out to the point that when those albums came out, it was like, why bother. And yes, that meant that his music was becoming less interesting. When we talk about this period, all the drama and confusion are part of it, even if some of the music was still good. In fact, I like his 93-95 music a whole lot better than his 89-92 music. So in a way, this whole quest for artistic freedom was inspiring and confusing at the same time.

For me it was all very inspirational. I was 17 when the radio tapes, the TBE film and Come got released. The way Prince reclaimed his artistic freedom, his status as an underground artist playing weird music in clubs and how that man who had worked so hard to become one of the world's biggest superstar in the D&P era (and ever before) suddenly deconstructed it all to go all Dirty Mind again was fascinating to me. I found the music extremely interesting, still do. The live shows he gave in those clubs, with the reduced NPG, in 94-95 was very avant-garde with all the samples and odd songs: if had been a new, underground act instead of a superstar swimming against his own tide, the world would have been in awe. I certainly was in awe! The studio versions are more polished because of Prince being Prince, but yet if you listen to Race, The Exodus Has Begun, What's My Name or Hide The Bone among others, the music was wild as hell... that shit was insane! Of course when compared to the music from 1980-1986 it sound much less idiosyncratic but while part of it is that Prince was following the trends instead of making them, it could be argued that it was also because was doing things... an artist named Prince had done before! "My only competition is me in the past", he would later sing. People tend to forget that Dirty Mind or Purple Rain were not only making the zeitgeist of the early 80's, it was also following it to some extent: the new wave explosion and second British Invasion, the neo romantic looks... it didn't come off nowhere, the Prince of the early 80's was also following trends to some extent.

.

One thing remains that in 1994, few artists managed to merge programming, samples and live music on stage with that level of complexity. Maybe some electronic acts like YMO (their 1993 tour comes to mind), but that was an entirely different musical universe: in the world of R&B, no one did that. Few people were aware of what Prince was doing on stage at that time, him playing mostly clubs and all, with few to no live recordings or videos available to the general public from those shows. I don't wanna force my views upon others, maybe some older fans found it all much less interesting than I did, but I really feel privileged to have been a Prince fans in those years even though I missed the "classic" era because I was too young, and I feel like testifying about how cool it was. The name change, the rebellion against the music industry, the clothes... but first and foremost the music. No matter how much I love 80's music, I cannot claim it my own. The 90's was my generation's decade, and God knows I would soon embrace the European electronic music revolution like crazy. But Prince the musician from those years, I'm proud I was there to hear it!

.

[Edited 6/22/18 17:46pm]

i was 16 around that time and feel absolutely the same way

databank said:

I fail to see how anyone, male or female, straight or gay, could possibly NOT want to hear an orgasm by Vanity, who may have been the sexiest woman to ever walk this earth.

God, I wish I had the video, too!

.

Although she was good looking (if a bit trashy), she wasn't a good actress. And the "orgasm" sounds like acting, overacting at that. It is cringeworthy on many levels. (imo)

To me,Come is a mediocre album.The songs are OK,but there's nothing really amazing on this album.

mediumdry said:

databank said:

I fail to see how anyone, male or female, straight or gay, could possibly NOT want to hear an orgasm by Vanity, who may have been the sexiest woman to ever walk this earth.

God, I wish I had the video, too!

.

Although she was good looking (if a bit trashy), she wasn't a good actress. And the "orgasm" sounds like acting, overacting at that. It is cringeworthy on many levels. (imo)

Its akin to reading Penthouse Forum section.

rdhull said:

Its akin to reading Penthouse Forum section.

.

I never thought that something like that would happen to me!

mediumdry said:

databank said:

I fail to see how anyone, male or female, straight or gay, could possibly NOT want to hear an orgasm by Vanity, who may have been the sexiest woman to ever walk this earth.

God, I wish I had the video, too!

.

Although she was good looking (if a bit trashy), she wasn't a good actress. And the "orgasm" sounds like acting, overacting at that. It is cringeworthy on many levels. (imo)

She was not "good looking". She was the most delicate, hypnotizing, loveliest women. She was mindblowing.

.

BTW, you guys have to stop overusing that adjective, "cringeworthy". It makes you people sound like immature people with emotional issues. No one in their right mind ever really cringes just because of a song. Well, OK maybe every once in a while if you hear something really dreadful and abnormal like, IDK, a Mongolian drinking song, but not 16 times a day, each and every time you hear a song you dislike on the radio.

[Edited 6/24/18 2:21am]

rdhull said:

mediumdry said:

.

Although she was good looking (if a bit trashy), she wasn't a good actress. And the "orgasm" sounds like acting, overacting at that. It is cringeworthy on many levels. (imo)

Its akin to reading Penthouse Forum section.

Way way worse than a magazine. It's more like turning the sound loud on the most over-acted porn movie ever and then not look at the visuals. After several minutes of this, then have a DJ say that this was Prince's song. Does not compute!

It is an amazing collection of songs. I used to have it on cassette tape and listen to it on my walkman on my bus rides to school. But it's tone is so dark and disturbing I don't really listen to it that much. I used to be really worried about Prince back then...

databank said:

BTW, you guys have to stop overusing that adjective, "cringeworthy". It makes you people sound like immature people with emotional issues. No one in their right mind ever really cringes just because of a song. Well, OK maybe every once in a while if you hear something really dreadful and abnormal like, IDK, a Mongolian drinking song, but not 16 times a day, each and every time you hear a song you dislike on the radio.

[Edited 6/24/18 2:21am]

.

Well...

.

Cringeworthy

.

To cringe

.

To me it is perfectly apt. Everytime I hear that vibrator outtake called orgasm I need to do some cognitive dissonance. I mean, I LIKE Prince's music. Even though it is also that...

.

And I'm assuming you mean Mongolian throat singing (as the Mongolian Drinking Song seems to just be a song by a band called Hanggai), which I quite enjoy from time to time. Nothing for me to cringe at there. But Wedding Feast, Make Your Momma Happy, Grafitti Bridge, Orgasm, the cunnilingus sounds on Come and quite a few other songs... they make me cringe, even though I've lived with this man's music for roughly 35 years now.

rdhull said:

herb4 said:

You think so? I don't hear it.

I'd say The Black Album was as close as he got to what you're describing. Or maybe parts of Emancipation (Slave, Human Body, New World). Only thing I ever heard him really do that recalled NiN was the outro to "In This Bed I Scream" and certain parts of Rave, which everyone seems to hate.

[Edited 6/21/18 15:40pm]

None of those songs have that industrial touch like Loose does. Its been widely spoken of here that he was into what Trent was doing at that time. HTF do you get The Black Album as being close? That was 87ish, way before Industrial etc. came into popularity etc. There's nothing Industrial about The Black Album.

I hear the NIN influence on Loose in some of those synth jabs that make up the skeleton of the song. In his vocal delivery as well, he seems to be apeing Trent.

The roots of industrial music go much further back than NIN of course. Throbbing Gristle are generally considered to be the first to explicitly identify the genre I think (late 70s - early 80s, foreshadowed by Kraftwerk, Lou Reed & The Velvet Underground, Fluxus, Karlheinz Stockhausen etc). You could even trace connections back to Dadaism and the Surrealists in the early 1900s (Artaud’s Pour en finir avec le jugement de Dieu). There’s always a degree of cross-pollution as artists, genres and technologies emerge, so it’s not absurd that someone would hear industrial elements in Prince’s 80s output, since they share some common roots and influences. The original Tick Tick Bang always sounded quite industrial to me (that dark, chugging synth line). I can see what herb4 is saying regarding TBA – not so much its sound, but its spirit is quite dark and abrasive. The moodier side of 80s Prince is one of the things that I missed in his later output.

fen said:

rdhull said:

None of those songs have that industrial touch like Loose does. Its been widely spoken of here that he was into what Trent was doing at that time. HTF do you get The Black Album as being close? That was 87ish, way before Industrial etc. came into popularity etc. There's nothing Industrial about The Black Album.

I hear the NIN influence on Loose in some of those synth jabs that make up the skeleton of the song. In his vocal delivery as well, he seems to be apeing Trent.

The roots of industrial music go much further back than NIN of course. Throbbing Gristle are generally considered to be the first to explicitly identify the genre I think (late 70s - early 80s, foreshadowed by Kraftwerk, Lou Reed & The Velvet Underground, Fluxus, Karlheinz Stockhausen etc). You could even trace connections back to Dadaism and the Surrealists in the early 1900s (Artaud’s Pour en finir avec le jugement de Dieu). There’s always a degree of cross-pollution as artists, genres and technologies emerge, so it’s not absurd that someone would hear industrial elements in Prince’s 80s output, since they share some common roots and influences. The original Tick Tick Bang always sounded quite industrial to me (that dark, chugging synth line). I can see what herb4 is saying regarding TBA – not so much its sound, but its spirit is quite dark and abrasive. The moodier side of 80s Prince is one of the things that I missed in his later output.

Industrial beginnings being before NIN (which I never said wasnt true, I said 1987 was way before it came into popularity 'etc.') still doesnt make TBA Indistrial. You say Herb mens it spirit is dark and abrsive, so now the mood makes it Industrial? And not goth? If anything, TBA has leanings to House Music but Imma let yall cook.

.

[Edited 6/28/18 20:12pm]

Yes I quite liked it, mostly because it wasn't an album I expected from him and sits halfway between the NJS and experimental electro-funk he'd been dabbling in. That said, there are obvious reasons why it is divisive; there's a dirty, unpolished, middle-finger quality to it that makes it resonate with me, while the glossy, radio-friendly sounds of an objectively bad album such as raveless, undo joy craptastic seem better heralded.

rdhull said:

fen said:

The roots of industrial music go much further back than NIN of course. Throbbing Gristle are generally considered to be the first to explicitly identify the genre I think (late 70s - early 80s, foreshadowed by Kraftwerk, Lou Reed & The Velvet Underground, Fluxus, Karlheinz Stockhausen etc). You could even trace connections back to Dadaism and the Surrealists in the early 1900s (Artaud’s Pour en finir avec le jugement de Dieu). There’s always a degree of cross-pollution as artists, genres and technologies emerge, so it’s not absurd that someone would hear industrial elements in Prince’s 80s output, since they share some common roots and influences. The original Tick Tick Bang always sounded quite industrial to me (that dark, chugging synth line). I can see what herb4 is saying regarding TBA – not so much its sound, but its spirit is quite dark and abrasive. The moodier side of 80s Prince is one of the things that I missed in his later output.

Industrial beginnings being before NIN (which I never said wasnt true, I said 1987 was way before it came into popularity 'etc.') still doesnt make TBA Indistrial. You say Herb mens it spirit is dark and abrsive, so now the mood makes it Industrial? And not goth? If anything, TBA has leanings to House Music but Imma let yall cook.

.

[Edited 6/28/18 20:12pm]

No, I wouldn’t label the Black Album as Industrial either, if anything the Dirty Mind, Controversy and 1999 eras warrant a more direct comparison (Punk + Electronica etc), but it’s clear enough what herb4 meant – I just don’t like to see people being treated so dismissively. How would you classify Bob George for example? You’re kind of missing my point by equating NIN with Prince’s awareness of “Industrial” music – the fact that a generation of disgruntled American teenagers found a voice in a particular group is neither here nor there – Prince would have been aware of many of the progenitors of the genre long before NIN emerged. Even Miles Davis' approaches this territority in the late 70s (under Stockhausen's influence). These things represent a continuum.

fen said:

rdhull said:

fen said:

No, I wouldn’t label the Black Album as Industrial either

...

You’re not one for nuance are you.

fen said:

rdhull said:

fen said:

...

You’re not one for nuance are you.

[/qu I’m all for nuance tyvm (no ned to be insulting just because I don’t acknowledge attempts of “rationalization”... that ‘ain’t’ nuance).

I didn’t intend to insult you, so my apologies, but quoting a line out of context like that just strikes me as a cheap move. All I was arguing was that these categories are fluid and there’s clearly common elements between Prince's 80s work and early industrial music (prior to NIN). Moreover, these threads persist throughout his career (again, what would you label Bob George? Not that it really matters anyway). Just compare his 80-83 sound with Throbbing Gristle for example:

[Edited 6/29/18 13:20pm]

You are right OP;

The Come album is wonderful, this album was loved by me from the beginning, from the release:

Actually a few songs were known already - at the release - from the beautiful experience tv series.. excellent!!


Come, it's an album filled with what I love most, these are pretty dark songs, the tone is dark:

Still the music is so fresh and very energetic.


The title song is incredible, and has to be the longest Prince song ever released officially(?)


Space, Papa, Dark and Letitgo.. and Pheromone and Loose as well... so many favorite songs.

The trio Come- Exodus- The Gold Experience, such an excellent era... but of course the slave fight with Warner took away some of the attention..

These slave "albums", they were amazing.. the problems began for me with the plastic rNb Emancipation, it was a shock to hear this kind of music right behind the excellent Gold album, such a big change in sound.....

to me 1993-95 is another high point in Prince's career, try to listen to THE DAWN bootleg 3cd- alternative versions and mixes, strong all the way..

Although Orgasm was too much to handle, (on Come!), maybe "Empty Room" would have suited the space as a nice closer of the Come album instead...?? Or, "Lovesign" could have been a nice single, and should maybe have been on the album??

9/10, maybe even 9.5/10 from me to Come!

Krystalkisses said:

It is an amazing collection of songs. I used to have it on cassette tape and listen to it on my walkman on my bus rides to school. But it's tone is so dark and disturbing I don't really listen to it that much. I used to be really worried about Prince back then...

^ yes u are right in using the word: amazing, + the tone is very dark, is right as well.

Maybe it helps being a non-english citizen (like I am), I am not disturbed by the tone at all..


But thanks for the positive vibe from u KristalK.....

- Come seems to have a lot (or, maybe a few?) haters, I can't understand that "hate" at all.... since this album is loved so dearly by me, sorry haters, I do not understand u guys....

TKO said:

It's one of his most unique, special, outstanding, one of a kind albums. I think between his 90s releases this one aged better than everything else. It takes me somewhere else. Deserved better. A top 5 Prince album to me.

Great pic, if this was taken at nightclub Pennylane (short aftershow only 2 or 3 songs played)..

But I was in Gotheborg in Sweden to see Act II in Stockholm then later Gothenborg + at Pennylane, I watched the short aftershow, and I was thrilled,

What a treat, it was, in the summer of 1993.

The summer of 1994 was one of those most exciting times in Prince world. With The Beautiful Experience (maxi-single and film), Come, 1-800-NEW-FUNK, hearing both Letitgo and Love Sign on the radio, the shows featuring all Come and Gold material, and their respective bootlegs.

Was there a more exciting summer in Prince world besides the summer of '84?