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Reply #30 posted 07/02/18 1:58am

bonatoc

avatar

heymistermusic said:

here's more on that very topic: http://prince.org/msg/7/455405


Did you just make an infinite internet loop?


bow biggrin

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #31 posted 07/02/18 10:55pm

Latin

heymistermusic said:

here's more on that very topic: http://prince.org/msg/7/455405


cool
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Reply #32 posted 07/03/18 12:44am

heymistermusic

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Great version of Calhoun Square indeed! Bonatoc is always full of great information and opinions, and I've always enjoyed reading his posts.

In the end, it's all about the music, and his vision of what he wanted to be percieved as. I will always be a fan.


Vannormal said:

Thank you BONATOC.

-

I who never liked covers done of Prince songs anyway...

...never heard SUCH a GREAT (jazz-funk) version of Prince's 'Calhoun Square'.

-

WTF !!! What a way to pay tribute !

Pure funk !

People, listen, and espeicaly SEE this :

-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8F-tS8iF6c

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Reply #33 posted 07/03/18 2:42am

BartVanHemelen

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jaawwnn said:

Certainly he loved the image of being brilliant at everything, be it music or business ("I can't be played"), but when push came to shove I always see him choosing music first. I think it was the Peach and Black guys who he told the story of meeting P Diddy/Puffy/whatever for dinner and Puffy was telling him all his business deals and how much money he made that week and Prince's response was just "well... I wrote a new song yesterday."

.

And Prince's cook told a story about Prin ce bitching at a dinner party in the late 2000s about wanting to have the biggest record deal ever.

.

Oh, and it was Prince who published a press release about his "$100 million deal".

.

Prince boasting about "I wrote a new song yesterday" sounds to me like the typical "I am sooo much better than you" BS, while in reality he was likely highly envious of Sean Combs. Because last I checked Sean Combs presides over a business empire that's worth hundreds of millions of dollars. At the time of Prince's death Paisley Park appears to have been in a state of disrepair, the contents of his vault are worth a fraction of what it once could have gained him, his post-1996 catalog was mostly out of print, etc. etc. etc.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #34 posted 07/03/18 2:52am

BartVanHemelen

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bonatoc said:

By now we all know how acute he was about rights ownership.

.

Everyone should have learned that lesson with the Stones decades earlier. Also note that while Prince was whining about it, other bands actually did something about it and got ownership. REM and Metallica are both WEA bands who got control of their back catalogue in the early-/mid-1990s.

.

They fucked everyone in the ass for decades,
a guy like Sly living in a roulotte,

.

Sly got fucked by his shady manager, and because he was a drug addict.

.

Also note that prince never came up with a viable alternative to the system, while at the same time exploiting his own fame in creating deals with majors.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #35 posted 07/03/18 5:23am

jaawwnn

avatar

BartVanHemelen said:

jaawwnn said:

Certainly he loved the image of being brilliant at everything, be it music or business ("I can't be played"), but when push came to shove I always see him choosing music first. I think it was the Peach and Black guys who he told the story of meeting P Diddy/Puffy/whatever for dinner and Puffy was telling him all his business deals and how much money he made that week and Prince's response was just "well... I wrote a new song yesterday."

.

And Prince's cook told a story about Prin ce bitching at a dinner party in the late 2000s about wanting to have the biggest record deal ever.

.

Oh, and it was Prince who published a press release about his "$100 million deal".

.

Prince boasting about "I wrote a new song yesterday" sounds to me like the typical "I am sooo much better than you" BS, while in reality he was likely highly envious of Sean Combs. Because last I checked Sean Combs presides over a business empire that's worth hundreds of millions of dollars. At the time of Prince's death Paisley Park appears to have been in a state of disrepair, the contents of his vault are worth a fraction of what it once could have gained him, his post-1996 catalog was mostly out of print, etc. etc. etc.

Yeah but Bart, i'm on prince.org not seancombs.org because I don't give a fuck about business deals or a popstar's business savvy. I don't like Prince because he could or couldnt get the biggest and best deals and if he had really been compelled to make the biggest and best deals he would have taken sensible business advice, released 1 album every 3 years and been as dull as Sean Combs. I don't judge Prince's worth based on what monetary value Paisley Park had at any given time.

[Edited 7/3/18 5:34am]

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Reply #36 posted 07/05/18 2:59am

BartVanHemelen

avatar

jaawwnn said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

And Prince's cook told a story about Prin ce bitching at a dinner party in the late 2000s about wanting to have the biggest record deal ever.

.

Oh, and it was Prince who published a press release about his "$100 million deal".

.

Prince boasting about "I wrote a new song yesterday" sounds to me like the typical "I am sooo much better than you" BS, while in reality he was likely highly envious of Sean Combs. Because last I checked Sean Combs presides over a business empire that's worth hundreds of millions of dollars. At the time of Prince's death Paisley Park appears to have been in a state of disrepair, the contents of his vault are worth a fraction of what it once could have gained him, his post-1996 catalog was mostly out of print, etc. etc. etc.

Yeah but Bart, i'm on prince.org not seancombs.org because I don't give a fuck about business deals or a popstar's business savvy. I don't like Prince because he could or couldnt get the biggest and best deals and if he had really been compelled to make the biggest and best deals he would have taken sensible business advice, released 1 album every 3 years and been as dull as Sean Combs. I don't judge Prince's worth based on what monetary value Paisley Park had at any given time.

[Edited 7/3/18 5:34am]

.

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO BROUGHT UP SEAN COMBS.

.

Sheesh, try reading your own frikking posts.

.

But I guess you got upset when I countered your "feelings" with facts that contradict them.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #37 posted 07/05/18 3:13am

jaawwnn

avatar

BartVanHemelen said:


YOU ARE THE ONE WHO BROUGHT UP SEAN COMBS.

.

Sheesh, try reading your own frikking posts.

.

But I guess you got upset when I countered your "feelings" with facts that contradict them.

Way to respond all caps emotionally you little snowflake you, nice personal attack there. Let me know when you want to talk like an adult.

When you do, read this:

I brought up Sean Combs as evidence that Prince preferred music over business deals and you went off on a classic bartvanhemelen rant about how prince saying he preferred music is actually SECRETLY PROOF that prince was actually a jealous, little baby who wishes he could do great business deals. But no, I still say that it's proof that when push came to shove, Prince's ego and his public image always came second place to his music. And the wealth of music he recorded and released is evidence of this.

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Reply #38 posted 07/05/18 3:15am

jaawwnn

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[BARTVANHAMELEN VOICE]

Gotta love when Bart thinks all orgers are the same person and lowers himself to ad hominem all caps personal attacks, SHEESH.

[/BARTVANHAMELEN VOICE]

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Reply #39 posted 07/05/18 6:43am

snakesineveryc
olor

jaawwnn said:



I brought up Sean Combs as evidence that Prince preferred music over business deals and you went off on a classic bartvanhemelen rant about how prince saying he preferred music is actually SECRETLY PROOF that prince was actually a jealous, little baby who wishes he could do great business deals. But no, I still say that it's proof that when push came to shove, Prince's ego and his public image always came second place to his music. And the wealth of music he recorded and released is evidence of this.



An anecdote like this can mean whatever the storyteller wants it to mean - without being there, and absent knowing how Prince felt in the moment - which could as easily have been mortified as triumphant - it’s all speculation, and proof of nothing.

That aside, there certainly was an aspect of Prince’s personality that sought credit for his business acumen, often without any legitimate rationale. He crowed about his enormous contract, but couldn’t be bothered to follow through in a way that allowed him to cash in. He wanted the prestige of his own sub-label on WB, but never took the time to learn how to run it, so it festered and failed following a run of sporadic and non-strategic releases. Even Paisley Park the facility was supposed to be self-sustaining, but instead became a money suck because there was no one to do the hard job of building clientele at a production facility, and to make money with that sort of establishment requires a commitment to keeping the place busy.

Prince was a complicated, often flawed person, just like everyone else. That music was always a priority for him is a fundamental truth - no one can argue against that prolific an output. But at the same time, he wanted it all, and clearly didn’t care to do the work necessary to get some of the other stuff, specifically on the business side of the equation, which a lot of times netted out to make him a crappy business partner. It’s a classic artist’s conundrum: time spent on the business side ultimately equals art that doesn’t get made. Prince’s solution was to prioritize the creative, but that came at a cost in other areas where he wanted to be perceived as a success.

Whether Prince changed his name for business reasons (the, “if I’m no longer Prince, their contract isn’t with me!” story is so wonderfully bananas that it’s fun to want it to be real) or artistic ones, it was, in the context of his relationship with the public, a misstep. Beyond the fact that most people just kept calling him Prince because that was easiest, all of the nonsense of “The Artist” and its attendant pretentiousness made casual listeners think of him as a weirdo, and not the kind whose oddities are entertaining. Whatever he wanted to get out of it, the move ultimately cost him some of his potential audience.
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Reply #40 posted 07/05/18 7:06am

jaawwnn

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snakesineverycolor said:

An anecdote like this can mean whatever the storyteller wants it to mean - without being there, and absent knowing how Prince felt in the moment - which could as easily have been mortified as triumphant - it’s all speculation, and proof of nothing.


shrug all we have is anecdotes. For what it's worth, in how it was told Prince wasn't bragging he was slightly embarrassed about it. It was like "Puffy made 20 million yesterday... I made a song, maybe my priorities aren't right here"

[Edited 7/5/18 7:08am]

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Reply #41 posted 07/06/18 10:21pm

Latin

bonatoc said:



heymistermusic said:


here's more on that very topic: http://prince.org/msg/7/455405




Did you just make an infinite internet loop?


bow biggrin


biggrin
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Reply #42 posted 07/10/18 11:11pm

Latin

heymistermusic said:

here's more on that very topic: http://prince.org/msg/7/455405


Thanks for sharing. biggrin
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Reply #43 posted 08/01/18 7:50pm

Latin

pinkcashmere23 said:

Interesting article. Thanks Latin!


You are very welcome. smile
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Reply #44 posted 08/01/18 8:18pm

SkipperLove

I am a bit nicer to Prince usually, but I have to agree. He was willing to work. No one could ever accuse him of being lazy but he took on too much, lost patience and ran back to music. I was reading a Revolution interview and the journalist asked the band if Prince's music suffered when he got more interested in business. Wendy in a diplomatic way (that didn't contradict the dude's assessment of Prince's work but also didn't support it directly) stated (in summary) that 'we all have different interests. Prince got into business and that became more of a priority later.. I like photography'... Well, where I disagree with her(and the journalist) is that music was always his first priority. He was just over-extended.

Back to name change....I think the name change is the worst thing he did to his career. I considered getting one of the those love symbol tattoos after he died (because I do like the duality of male and female; and I like Prince obviously) but then it just reminded me of the mistake he made by changing his name to something unpronouncable. Why couldn't he have just changed his name to Amiir (which means Prince anyways) or at least something you can pronounce. That part didn't make sense then and still doesn't. I think it was a bit indicative of mental in-balance, maybe depression or an exhaustion with fame. It also felt like he was trying to erase his history and start over. But it alienated his casual fans and exhausted and embittered his die hards. In a round about way, I think he knew that writing slave on his face was a mistake--I wonder if he (deep down) felt the same about the name change being done in such an odd fashion.

snakesineverycolor said:

jaawwnn said:

I brought up Sean Combs as evidence that Prince preferred music over business deals and you went off on a classic bartvanhemelen rant about how prince saying he preferred music is actually SECRETLY PROOF that prince was actually a jealous, little baby who wishes he could do great business deals. But no, I still say that it's proof that when push came to shove, Prince's ego and his public image always came second place to his music. And the wealth of music he recorded and released is evidence of this.

An anecdote like this can mean whatever the storyteller wants it to mean - without being there, and absent knowing how Prince felt in the moment - which could as easily have been mortified as triumphant - it’s all speculation, and proof of nothing. That aside, there certainly was an aspect of Prince’s personality that sought credit for his business acumen, often without any legitimate rationale. He crowed about his enormous contract, but couldn’t be bothered to follow through in a way that allowed him to cash in. He wanted the prestige of his own sub-label on WB, but never took the time to learn how to run it, so it festered and failed following a run of sporadic and non-strategic releases. Even Paisley Park the facility was supposed to be self-sustaining, but instead became a money suck because there was no one to do the hard job of building clientele at a production facility, and to make money with that sort of establishment requires a commitment to keeping the place busy. Prince was a complicated, often flawed person, just like everyone else. That music was always a priority for him is a fundamental truth - no one can argue against that prolific an output. But at the same time, he wanted it all, and clearly didn’t care to do the work necessary to get some of the other stuff, specifically on the business side of the equation, which a lot of times netted out to make him a crappy business partner. It’s a classic artist’s conundrum: time spent on the business side ultimately equals art that doesn’t get made. Prince’s solution was to prioritize the creative, but that came at a cost in other areas where he wanted to be perceived as a success. Whether Prince changed his name for business reasons (the, “if I’m no longer Prince, their contract isn’t with me!” story is so wonderfully bananas that it’s fun to want it to be real) or artistic ones, it was, in the context of his relationship with the public, a misstep. Beyond the fact that most people just kept calling him Prince because that was easiest, all of the nonsense of “The Artist” and its attendant pretentiousness made casual listeners think of him as a weirdo, and not the kind whose oddities are entertaining. Whatever he wanted to get out of it, the move ultimately cost him some of his potential audience.

[Edited 8/1/18 20:25pm]

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Reply #45 posted 08/05/18 2:30pm

42Kristen

Got It! Prince could had pulled it off. He was not distracted by Mayte Garcia. After reading this article. Prince was suppose to be Vice President of Warner Bros. That meant that Prince has say so over his own voice. His own music, etc. There are holes that left out of why Prince really changed his named. I do not mind speaking my peace. Before Mayte! Prince had did excellent in the '80's. But during the '90's! Prince did make some unridicous choices that made no sense to nobody else. BUT HIMSELF! neutral

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Reply #46 posted 08/11/18 11:24pm

Latin

pinkcashmere23 said:

Interesting article. Thanks Latin!


You are very welcome. smile
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