disch said:

We don't know all the reasons why he took opioids, and I for one am not not going to pretend that I do have this personal insight. I don't. He kept whatever he was dealing with private from me and people like me. I know him from his public persona and that's pretty much it.

-

I'm also not going to take song lyrics from his 20s as some proclamation of his belief system and actions that he carried through every day of his whole life, nor would I assume that Prince acted out everything he preached (we all have beliefs that don't match our behavior. I believe everyone should exercise daily and would encourage people to do that. Do I? No. And I make all kinds of justifications for that).

-

We've had so many debates on this site about the use of the term "recreational." My understading is that it is a confusing and misleading term for many people who struggle with addiction, who often have a complex web of needs, some of which may be physical and others are emotional/psychological. The "pleasure" someone feels from "getting high" is likely intertwined to relief psychological and emotional issues, particularly in someone who reaches the point of addiction.

-

And addiction itself causes its own set of needs -- it's not about partying and fun, but avoiding the debilitating withdrawal symptoms that can come on when you stop taking the drugs (and we know those were a concern to prince as he brought the issue up with Dr S and Dr S prescribed him medication specifically to alleviate opioid withdrawal symptoms).

-

I know that we keep drifting back to simplistic and reductive views of drug use and addiction -- that that people take drugs either for physical pain relief OR for "recreation" and the "fun" of "getting high," and those 2 options are the only ones there are. Fortunately I haven't struggled with addiction personally but I've read a lot about it and know that this simplistic viewpoint doesn't really described most addicted people's actual, complicated experience.

violetcrush said:

Right - the focus should be his music, talent and legacy. The Opioid addiction crisis is huge, and contributing to thousands of deaths in this country. There have been so many comments about Prince detesting the use of drugs - and by all accounts, he did detest drugs, and often sang about the issue. It is important to remember that he spoke and sang against recreational drug use, ie: the use of a drug to create a mind-altered state. During the LoveSexy tour he would say, "the reason my words are so clear is because there's no smack in my brain". Prince did not use the Opioids for recreational or pleasure use or to get high. He took them specifically to reduce hip pain, and/or any other bodily pain he was experiencing - as many people do or have done. He was a victim of the extremely addictive component of these meds.

[Edited 6/13/18 6:28am]

THANK YOU! I think there's a good chance that such views contributed to P's suffering and death.

Trying to find ways to prevent stigma (and the related tendency to divide people into an artificial binary of "good addicts" and "bad addicts") is a way to honor. It will combat the scourge that endangered Prince...just like when people are honored with efforts to get people to feel more comfortable getting cancer screening, or seeking treatment when experiencing signs of stroke.

It's completely compatible with honoring Prince's art. When it comes to Prince-related activity, I spend far more time listening to his music than with other things, including reading and posting, much as I do appreciate Prince forums.

herb4 said:

rednblue said:

herb4, what you wrote here is amazing. Can't possibly write a reply that would do justice, but thank you, thank you, thank you for these thoughts!

Prince sometimes struck me as acting as if he was in "survivalist" mode, and it might be really hard not to live in that mode when a person has experienced such a rough childhood.

Also, your idea of P trying to convince himself of something using LG as a vessel is fascinating. I come at this with bias, but it sure did sometimes feel to me a lot like trying to convince himself first and foremost.

What you said about complex people in the public sphere really makes me think, too. Purplerabbithole has mentioned Howard Hughes. Her comparing and contrasting of the two made some great points.

[Edited 6/12/18 16:59pm]

That's very kind of you to say. Thank you. I think you hit on it right there with the part I bolded. I'd say, all things being equal, he "survived" quite well, regardless of how it ended. He lived more life in 57 years than I could do in 500. "God' was ready for him, if you believe in that sort of thing.

When Larry came around, a LOT of people were taking giant shits on him, competely ignoring the fact that Prince LOVED him and that, however he did it, brought something into Prince's life - filled a void. I always felt the Larry hate was misguided and sort of a crappy attitude to take, but I see similar things happening still with everyone second guessing his friends, former lovers and family. I think Prince had a lot of voids but no one worked harder to fill them. Look what it gave us. More music than we can every experience in a lifetime.

Most of it is really fucking good too. Let it go, folks, and LISTEN.

The more I go back and look at things the more I start to feel that Prince's "traumatic" childhood may have had more to do with his own complexities, and how he dealt with situations rather than his overall surroundings. No doubt the seizures early on, and being teased about his height contributed to his personal struggle(although kids are teased all the time about a multitude of things), but a divorce situation is not necessarily traumatic.

*

Prince stated in an interview that he was often purposely difficult with his Stepfather - no doubt he may have regarded him as the reason for the breakup of his family. I read that when he asked Andre if he could live with his family, his Mother called and spoke to Bernadette, Andre's Mother, to discuss the arrangements and confirm that it was okay. I dont' think it was a situation where he was forced from her home, and she did not know or care where he was staying. She knew that Andre's Mother would take care of him, and also that his Mother supported the music and was very involved with it. Prince wanted to play music, and he knew he would get the support at Andre's, and also the ability to collaborate with Andre there. However, I think in Prince's mind, he felt abandoned by his Mother - whether due to this or other reasons. When she attended his Purple Rain concert he put a note on her chair that said, "This one's for you", so he clearly still had some type of bond with her.

*

The song "Papa" is intense for sure, and no doubt if it's true that memory stuck with him. However, discipline was often quite harsh back then compared to today. Kids were often hit and/or beaten with belts - it was usually a physical form of punishment. I don't think "time-outs" even existed back then. In his interview with Larry King in 1999, when asked about his Father being very rough on him he said, "well, he was a strict disciplinarian. All Fathers were back then. It taught me right from wrong". I'm sure there were some rough moments with his Dad, but by all accounts, he thought very highly of him, wrote music with him, and they became very close.

*

The song "Sister" - TrivialPursuit stated this on another thread, and I believe I had read this somewhere too - the inspiration came from the Nuns who washed his car on one occasion. They made him wait on the sidewalk or street, because they were uncomfortable with his appearance. He had his huge Afro at the time, and I'm sure he was dressed in his unique way, so they were a bit freaked out by him. Hence the lyric, "oh Sister, don't put me on the street again". Whether he added the incest story to go with the theme of the Dirty Mind album, or it really did happen with one of his Sisters - is still a mystery. Anything is possible.

*

I think the "abused and abandoned" stories added to his mystique and interest by the fans, so he wasn't going to counter them, or correct any misinformation. As he wrote in OF4S about his childhood friends talking to the media, "chump change to unravel the mystery, but life ain't no fun without fantasy". No doubt he did not have the "Leave It To Beaver" or "Father Knows Best" childhood, so certain things stuck with him, but I don't think it was filled with constant trauma. I think his way of dealing with things emotionally was complicated and complex, which helped to give us all of the great music.

Just my thoughts

rednblue said:

disch said:

We don't know all the reasons why he took opioids, and I for one am not not going to pretend that I do have this personal insight. I don't. He kept whatever he was dealing with private from me and people like me. I know him from his public persona and that's pretty much it.

-

I'm also not going to take song lyrics from his 20s as some proclamation of his belief system and actions that he carried through every day of his whole life, nor would I assume that Prince acted out everything he preached (we all have beliefs that don't match our behavior. I believe everyone should exercise daily and would encourage people to do that. Do I? No. And I make all kinds of justifications for that).

-

We've had so many debates on this site about the use of the term "recreational." My understading is that it is a confusing and misleading term for many people who struggle with addiction, who often have a complex web of needs, some of which may be physical and others are emotional/psychological. The "pleasure" someone feels from "getting high" is likely intertwined to relief psychological and emotional issues, particularly in someone who reaches the point of addiction.

-

And addiction itself causes its own set of needs -- it's not about partying and fun, but avoiding the debilitating withdrawal symptoms that can come on when you stop taking the drugs (and we know those were a concern to prince as he brought the issue up with Dr S and Dr S prescribed him medication specifically to alleviate opioid withdrawal symptoms).

-

I know that we keep drifting back to simplistic and reductive views of drug use and addiction -- that that people take drugs either for physical pain relief OR for "recreation" and the "fun" of "getting high," and those 2 options are the only ones there are. Fortunately I haven't struggled with addiction personally but I've read a lot about it and know that this simplistic viewpoint doesn't really described most addicted people's actual, complicated experience.

[Edited 6/13/18 6:28am]

THANK YOU! I think there's a good chance that such views contributed to P's suffering and death.

Trying to find ways to prevent stigma (and the related tendency to divide people into an artificial binary of "good addicts" and "bad addicts") is a way to honor. It will combat the scourge that endangered Prince...just like when people are honored with efforts to get people to feel more comfortable getting cancer screening, or seeking treatment when experiencing signs of stroke.

It's completely compatible with honoring Prince's art. When it comes to Prince-related activity, I spend far more time listening to his music than with other things, including reading and posting, much as I do appreciate Prince forums.

My point was that I do not think Prince began taking Opioids for any reason other than to reduce or eliminate his physical pain. I have that view based upon the investigative documents regarding when he began taking the meds, which occured after his hip surgery. My Father had hip surgery as well, and was prescribed the strong pain meds. This is common practice. He opted not to take them, but many need them in order to deal with the recovery.

*

I understand there are various reasons why people turn to drugs and become addicted - emotional pain, physical pain, social influence, etc. I was only stating what I felt the initial reasoning was for Prince using the meds. Whether it became something else I don't know.

*

I used the example of the LoveSexy tour in relation to my point. Prince often sang throughout the years about his views on the negative effects of drug use - not just during that time. My use of the term "recreational" was meant to describe drug use that is not prescribed by a Doctor, and/or needed for medical purposes.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

violetcrush said:

herb4 said:

That's very kind of you to say. Thank you. I think you hit on it right there with the part I bolded. I'd say, all things being equal, he "survived" quite well, regardless of how it ended. He lived more life in 57 years than I could do in 500. "God' was ready for him, if you believe in that sort of thing.

When Larry came around, a LOT of people were taking giant shits on him, competely ignoring the fact that Prince LOVED him and that, however he did it, brought something into Prince's life - filled a void. I always felt the Larry hate was misguided and sort of a crappy attitude to take, but I see similar things happening still with everyone second guessing his friends, former lovers and family. I think Prince had a lot of voids but no one worked harder to fill them. Look what it gave us. More music than we can every experience in a lifetime.

Most of it is really fucking good too. Let it go, folks, and LISTEN.

The more I go back and look at things the more I start to feel that Prince's "traumatic" childhood may have had more to do with his own complexities, and how he dealt with situations rather than his overall surroundings. No doubt the seizures early on, and being teased about his height contributed to his personal struggle(although kids are teased all the time about a multitude of things), but a divorce situation is not necessarily traumatic.

*

Prince stated in an interview that he was often purposely difficult with his Stepfather - no doubt he may have regarded him as the reason for the breakup of his family. I read that when he asked Andre if he could live with his family, his Mother called and spoke to Bernadette, Andre's Mother, to discuss the arrangements and confirm that it was okay. I dont' think it was a situation where he was forced from her home, and she did not know or care where he was staying. She knew that Andre's Mother would take care of him, and also that his Mother supported the music and was very involved with it. Prince wanted to play music, and he knew he would get the support at Andre's, and also the ability to collaborate with Andre there. However, I think in Prince's mind, he felt abandoned by his Mother - whether due to this or other reasons. When she attended his Purple Rain concert he put a note on her chair that said, "This one's for you", so he clearly still had some type of bond with her.

*

The song "Papa" is intense for sure, and no doubt if it's true that memory stuck with him. However, discipline was often quite harsh back then compared to today. Kids were often hit and/or beaten with belts - it was usually a physical form of punishment. I don't think "time-outs" even existed back then. In his interview with Larry King in 1999, when asked about his Father being very rough on him he said, "well, he was a strict disciplinarian. All Fathers were back then. It taught me right from wrong". I'm sure there were some rough moments with his Dad, but by all accounts, he thought very highly of him, wrote music with him, and they became very close.

*

The song "Sister" - TrivialPursuit stated this on another thread, and I believe I had read this somewhere too - the inspiration came from the Nuns who washed his car on one occasion. They made him wait on the sidewalk or street, because they were uncomfortable with his appearance. He had his huge Afro at the time, and I'm sure he was dressed in his unique way, so they were a bit freaked out by him. Hence the lyric, "oh Sister, don't put me on the street again". Whether he added the incest story to go with the theme of the Dirty Mind album, or it really did happen with one of his Sisters - is still a mystery. Anything is possible.

*

I think the "abused and abandoned" stories added to his mystique and interest by the fans, so he wasn't going to counter them, or correct any misinformation. As he wrote in OF4S about his childhood friends talking to the media, "chump change to unravel the mystery, but life ain't no fun without fantasy". No doubt he did not have the "Leave It To Beaver" or "Father Knows Best" childhood, so certain things stuck with him, but I don't think it was filled with constant trauma. I think his way of dealing with things emotionally was complicated and complex, which helped to give us all of the great music.

Just my thoughts

Thank you, thank you, thank you, too! It was clear that P was very perceptive and sensitive. It undoubtedly put him through a lot, that gift to perceive and feel so strongly. His music was imbued with that deep ability to sense and feel. Such a gift...don't have the words to do it justice.

I am more inclined to believe that drug or alcohol usage initially is recreational if it is started in social settings. Once addiction sets in, obviously, it is no longer recreational. If Dr. D is correct, P was a long time user who partake in drugs in order to work and deal with social anxiety. If he is wrong, then P was a private user who more recently started. But in both scenarios, there is no indication of recreational usage at any point. He didn't seem to like drug using. To him, it was probably always medicinal in his mind.

disch said:

We don't know all the reasons why he took opioids, and I for one am not not going to pretend that I do have this personal insight. I don't. He kept whatever he was dealing with private from me and people like me. I know him from his public persona and that's pretty much it.

-

I'm also not going to take song lyrics from his 20s as some proclamation of his belief system and actions that he carried through every day of his whole life, nor would I assume that Prince acted out everything he preached (we all have beliefs that don't match our behavior. I believe everyone should exercise daily and would encourage people to do that. Do I? No. And I make all kinds of justifications for that).

-

We've had so many debates on this site about the use of the term "recreational." My understading is that it is a confusing and misleading term for many people who struggle with addiction, who often have a complex web of needs, some of which may be physical and others are emotional/psychological. The "pleasure" someone feels from "getting high" is likely intertwined to relief psychological and emotional issues, particularly in someone who reaches the point of addiction.

-

And addiction itself causes its own set of needs -- it's not about partying and fun, but avoiding the debilitating withdrawal symptoms that can come on when you stop taking the drugs (and we know those were a concern to prince as he brought the issue up with Dr S and Dr S prescribed him medication specifically to alleviate opioid withdrawal symptoms).

-

I know that we keep drifting back to simplistic and reductive views of drug use and addiction -- that that people take drugs either for physical pain relief OR for "recreation" and the "fun" of "getting high," and every drug user or addicted person fits into one group or the other. Fortunately I haven't struggled with addiction personally but I've read a lot about it and know that this simplistic viewpoint doesn't really described most addicted people's actual, complicated experience.

violetcrush said:

Right - the focus should be his music, talent and legacy. The Opioid addiction crisis is huge, and contributing to thousands of deaths in this country. There have been so many comments about Prince detesting the use of drugs - and by all accounts, he did detest drugs, and often sang about the issue. It is important to remember that he spoke and sang against recreational drug use, ie: the use of a drug to create a mind-altered state. During the LoveSexy tour he would say, "the reason my words are so clear is because there's no smack in my brain". Prince did not use the Opioids for recreational or pleasure use or to get high. He took them specifically to reduce hip pain, and/or any other bodily pain he was experiencing - as many people do or have done. He was a victim of the extremely addictive component of these meds.

[Edited 6/13/18 6:43am]

Lovejunky said:

violetcrush said:

Exactly. I responded to RJP1205 before I saw your post. Prince was using these drugs as a medication to decrease physical pain, and he was not using them for recreational purposes. The privacy factor ties in with his inability to show weakness or vulnerability in any way, including his physical condition.

*

I watched a video awhile back of one of his 2000 shows (I think it was the last time he performed Darling Nikki) where he started doing multiple splits - going from side to side, over and over again. I can't remember how many he did, but probably at least 10. On the last split, as he came up he teeterd back and forth, almost losing his balance. I cringed when I saw that, knowing what we know now. I'm sure it went unnoticed back then, but now it is very telling. He went above and beyond in order to give his audience a better show. That, to me, is what we should be talking about, along with all of the incredible music he gave us.

Yes to all of that....

Thank you ..

I think this thread is DONE and Dusted now...Mods cant we shut it down....??????????

rednblue said:

violetcrush said:

The more I go back and look at things the more I start to feel that Prince's "traumatic" childhood may have had more to do with his own complexities, and how he dealt with situations rather than his overall surroundings. No doubt the seizures early on, and being teased about his height contributed to his personal struggle(although kids are teased all the time about a multitude of things), but a divorce situation is not necessarily traumatic.

*

Prince stated in an interview that he was often purposely difficult with his Stepfather - no doubt he may have regarded him as the reason for the breakup of his family. I read that when he asked Andre if he could live with his family, his Mother called and spoke to Bernadette, Andre's Mother, to discuss the arrangements and confirm that it was okay. I dont' think it was a situation where he was forced from her home, and she did not know or care where he was staying. She knew that Andre's Mother would take care of him, and also that his Mother supported the music and was very involved with it. Prince wanted to play music, and he knew he would get the support at Andre's, and also the ability to collaborate with Andre there. However, I think in Prince's mind, he felt abandoned by his Mother - whether due to this or other reasons. When she attended his Purple Rain concert he put a note on her chair that said, "This one's for you", so he clearly still had some type of bond with her.

*

The song "Papa" is intense for sure, and no doubt if it's true that memory stuck with him. However, discipline was often quite harsh back then compared to today. Kids were often hit and/or beaten with belts - it was usually a physical form of punishment. I don't think "time-outs" even existed back then. In his interview with Larry King in 1999, when asked about his Father being very rough on him he said, "well, he was a strict disciplinarian. All Fathers were back then. It taught me right from wrong". I'm sure there were some rough moments with his Dad, but by all accounts, he thought very highly of him, wrote music with him, and they became very close.

*

The song "Sister" - TrivialPursuit stated this on another thread, and I believe I had read this somewhere too - the inspiration came from the Nuns who washed his car on one occasion. They made him wait on the sidewalk or street, because they were uncomfortable with his appearance. He had his huge Afro at the time, and I'm sure he was dressed in his unique way, so they were a bit freaked out by him. Hence the lyric, "oh Sister, don't put me on the street again". Whether he added the incest story to go with the theme of the Dirty Mind album, or it really did happen with one of his Sisters - is still a mystery. Anything is possible.

*

I think the "abused and abandoned" stories added to his mystique and interest by the fans, so he wasn't going to counter them, or correct any misinformation. As he wrote in OF4S about his childhood friends talking to the media, "chump change to unravel the mystery, but life ain't no fun without fantasy". No doubt he did not have the "Leave It To Beaver" or "Father Knows Best" childhood, so certain things stuck with him, but I don't think it was filled with constant trauma. I think his way of dealing with things emotionally was complicated and complex, which helped to give us all of the great music.

Just my thoughts

Thank you, thank you, thank you, too! It was clear that P was very perceptive and sensitive. It undoubtedly put him through a lot, that gift to perceive and feel so strongly. His music was imbued with that deep ability to sense and feel. Such a gift...don't have the words to do it justice.

purplerabbithole said:

I am more inclined to believe that drug or alcohol usage initially is recreational if it is started in social settings. Once addiction sets in, obviously, it is no longer recreational. If Dr. D is correct, P was a long time user who partake in drugs in order to work and deal with social anxiety. If he is wrong, then P was a private user who more recently started. But in both scenarios, there is no indication of recreational usage at any point. He didn't seem to like drug using. To him, it was probably always medicinal in his mind.

disch said:

We don't know all the reasons why he took opioids, and I for one am not not going to pretend that I do have this personal insight. I don't. He kept whatever he was dealing with private from me and people like me. I know him from his public persona and that's pretty much it.

-

I'm also not going to take song lyrics from his 20s as some proclamation of his belief system and actions that he carried through every day of his whole life, nor would I assume that Prince acted out everything he preached (we all have beliefs that don't match our behavior. I believe everyone should exercise daily and would encourage people to do that. Do I? No. And I make all kinds of justifications for that).

-

We've had so many debates on this site about the use of the term "recreational." My understading is that it is a confusing and misleading term for many people who struggle with addiction, who often have a complex web of needs, some of which may be physical and others are emotional/psychological. The "pleasure" someone feels from "getting high" is likely intertwined to relief psychological and emotional issues, particularly in someone who reaches the point of addiction.

-

And addiction itself causes its own set of needs -- it's not about partying and fun, but avoiding the debilitating withdrawal symptoms that can come on when you stop taking the drugs (and we know those were a concern to prince as he brought the issue up with Dr S and Dr S prescribed him medication specifically to alleviate opioid withdrawal symptoms).

-

I know that we keep drifting back to simplistic and reductive views of drug use and addiction -- that that people take drugs either for physical pain relief OR for "recreation" and the "fun" of "getting high," and every drug user or addicted person fits into one group or the other. Fortunately I haven't struggled with addiction personally but I've read a lot about it and know that this simplistic viewpoint doesn't really described most addicted people's actual, complicated experience.

[Edited 6/13/18 6:43am]

Purple - I agree. I think he wanted a "clear head" in order to be able to record and perform at his unusually fast pace.

I wasn't really considering Dr D, and I don't think those are the only 2 binary option. It's possible Prince used opioids on and off over the years, not continuously, and maybe for different reasons at different times or a combination of reasons, maybe some he didn't even acknowledge to himself.

-

I'm saying that not because I claim to have knowledge of the inner workings of prince's mind, but because people in general are often complicated, driven by more than one motivation, are facing more than one challenge at a given time, have problems and behaviors that change over time, and often struggle with tensions between their beliefs and their actions.

-

I think in general, any person whose use of substances is extensive enough to evolve into addiction has underlying issues -- whether physical, psychological/emotional, or in many people a combination (we've talked quite a bit here how physical struggles can exacerbate emotional ones and vice versa).

-

I just think it's reductive to assume "prince didn't like getting high!" as if desiring the effect that substances can have on your mood or emotions is such a shocking or unacceptable thing. Many of us drink alcohol on occasion, for example, and I think we'd be lying if we said that we the "buzz" or relaxation that comes with it isn't part of the appeal.

purplerabbithole said:

I am more inclined to believe that drug or alcohol usage initially is recreational if it is started in social settings. Once addiction sets in, obviously, it is no longer recreational. If Dr. D is correct, P was a long time user who partake in drugs in order to work and deal with social anxiety. If he is wrong, then P was a private user who more recently started. But in both scenarios, there is no indication of recreational usage at any point. He didn't seem to like drug using. To him, it was probably always medicinal in his mind.

disch said:

We don't know all the reasons why he took opioids, and I for one am not not going to pretend that I do have this personal insight. I don't. He kept whatever he was dealing with private from me and people like me. I know him from his public persona and that's pretty much it.

-

I'm also not going to take song lyrics from his 20s as some proclamation of his belief system and actions that he carried through every day of his whole life, nor would I assume that Prince acted out everything he preached (we all have beliefs that don't match our behavior. I believe everyone should exercise daily and would encourage people to do that. Do I? No. And I make all kinds of justifications for that).

-

We've had so many debates on this site about the use of the term "recreational." My understading is that it is a confusing and misleading term for many people who struggle with addiction, who often have a complex web of needs, some of which may be physical and others are emotional/psychological. The "pleasure" someone feels from "getting high" is likely intertwined to relief psychological and emotional issues, particularly in someone who reaches the point of addiction.

-

And addiction itself causes its own set of needs -- it's not about partying and fun, but avoiding the debilitating withdrawal symptoms that can come on when you stop taking the drugs (and we know those were a concern to prince as he brought the issue up with Dr S and Dr S prescribed him medication specifically to alleviate opioid withdrawal symptoms).

-

I know that we keep drifting back to simplistic and reductive views of drug use and addiction -- that that people take drugs either for physical pain relief OR for "recreation" and the "fun" of "getting high," and every drug user or addicted person fits into one group or the other. Fortunately I haven't struggled with addiction personally but I've read a lot about it and know that this simplistic viewpoint doesn't really described most addicted people's actual, complicated experience.

[Edited 6/13/18 6:43am]

I do think P's childhood wasn't sunshine and roses. I don't think it was as bad as the Purple Rain movie implies but I think it was more difficult than just a kid dealing with his parents divorce. For one thing, I can't imagine the teasing he got at school (very small, pretty, biracial looking, socially awkward, weird name, epileptic seizures....people used to call him "Princess" in school and there were social workers looking into helping him.) I have a 12 year old son with anxiety issues, and there is no way in hell I would let him move in with his friends rather than deal with his problems at home. If he felt he needed music to express himself, I would let him use the basement to practice in my own home (even if it kept me up nights and pissed off my hubby) before I would let him move somewhere else. I think it is possible that P was somewhere low on the autism spectrum (maybe brought on from his epilepsy). He obviously had fond memories of his dad's musical inclinations (Tyka described how the family would gather around the piano before dad left.) Prince, after the divorce, seemed to want to heal through connecting musically to his father and it sounds like the household under Haywood was a my-way-or-the-highway environment and had some hard discipline (being locked in closets, picking dandy lions etc) . Tyka, if she is to be believed, stated that P's mom was a workaholic with two or three jobs and wasn't home much. The way I see it is that an undersized son with social anxiety and loneliness and a passion for music that was being curtailed by strict parents was being emotionally neglected by the fact that the household he lived in seemed like an intolerant and solitary place. He needed a family and guidance to deal with being the unique person he was (small and light-skinned and possibly autistic in that school environment must have been hard) and an avenue to express himself and he found it elsewhere. In that sense, he was emotionally abandoned by his family.. Rather than make "accommodations", they just let him go live somewhere else. Working with autistic kids, the word "accommodations" is a frequently used word in my job...so I know how families work to deal with these problems and it has never been just letting their kids move in with their friends' families. I don't doubt that his parents loved him but I do feel they let him down by being ill-equipped or too stubborn to deal with a kid with his complex emotional needs. When P said, presumably to his mother in WHen Doves Cry..."how could you just leave me standing alone in a world that is so cold" --that "world" could have been his own home. Imagine what he was feeling, his mother is out there saving the world through her social work and meanwhile her son is thinking "Well, what about me??" I assume that Mattie was so used to hard cases (beatings, physical neglect) that P's problems seemed insignificant in comparison or she was in denial. I know this was a different time but that is not an excuse for everything.

rednblue said:

violetcrush said:

The more I go back and look at things the more I start to feel that Prince's "traumatic" childhood may have had more to do with his own complexities, and how he dealt with situations rather than his overall surroundings. No doubt the seizures early on, and being teased about his height contributed to his personal struggle(although kids are teased all the time about a multitude of things), but a divorce situation is not necessarily traumatic.

*

Prince stated in an interview that he was often purposely difficult with his Stepfather - no doubt he may have regarded him as the reason for the breakup of his family. I read that when he asked Andre if he could live with his family, his Mother called and spoke to Bernadette, Andre's Mother, to discuss the arrangements and confirm that it was okay. I dont' think it was a situation where he was forced from her home, and she did not know or care where he was staying. She knew that Andre's Mother would take care of him, and also that his Mother supported the music and was very involved with it. Prince wanted to play music, and he knew he would get the support at Andre's, and also the ability to collaborate with Andre there. However, I think in Prince's mind, he felt abandoned by his Mother - whether due to this or other reasons. When she attended his Purple Rain concert he put a note on her chair that said, "This one's for you", so he clearly still had some type of bond with her.

*

The song "Papa" is intense for sure, and no doubt if it's true that memory stuck with him. However, discipline was often quite harsh back then compared to today. Kids were often hit and/or beaten with belts - it was usually a physical form of punishment. I don't think "time-outs" even existed back then. In his interview with Larry King in 1999, when asked about his Father being very rough on him he said, "well, he was a strict disciplinarian. All Fathers were back then. It taught me right from wrong". I'm sure there were some rough moments with his Dad, but by all accounts, he thought very highly of him, wrote music with him, and they became very close.

*

The song "Sister" - TrivialPursuit stated this on another thread, and I believe I had read this somewhere too - the inspiration came from the Nuns who washed his car on one occasion. They made him wait on the sidewalk or street, because they were uncomfortable with his appearance. He had his huge Afro at the time, and I'm sure he was dressed in his unique way, so they were a bit freaked out by him. Hence the lyric, "oh Sister, don't put me on the street again". Whether he added the incest story to go with the theme of the Dirty Mind album, or it really did happen with one of his Sisters - is still a mystery. Anything is possible.

*

I think the "abused and abandoned" stories added to his mystique and interest by the fans, so he wasn't going to counter them, or correct any misinformation. As he wrote in OF4S about his childhood friends talking to the media, "chump change to unravel the mystery, but life ain't no fun without fantasy". No doubt he did not have the "Leave It To Beaver" or "Father Knows Best" childhood, so certain things stuck with him, but I don't think it was filled with constant trauma. I think his way of dealing with things emotionally was complicated and complex, which helped to give us all of the great music.

Just my thoughts

Thank you, thank you, thank you, too! It was clear that P was very perceptive and sensitive. It undoubtedly put him through a lot, that gift to perceive and feel so strongly. His music was imbued with that deep ability to sense and feel. Such a gift...don't have the words to do it justice.

[Edited 6/13/18 8:09am]

Rednblue, VioletCrush, Herb4, Disch-Please keep posting! I feel that all of you are sharing nuanced, deeply insightful,compassionate views re: Prince. I have been craving a less black-and-white analysis. The mention of his drug-use as a complex web of need with both physical and emotional components was so eloquently stated (only one example)I hope we can all stay on your level moving forward.

purplerabbithole said:

I do think P's childhood wasn't sunshine and roses. I don't think it was as bad as the Purple Rain movie implies but I think it was more difficult than just a kid dealing with his parents divorce. For one thing, I can't imagine the teasing he got at school (very small, pretty, biracial looking, socially awkward, weird name, epileptic seizures....people used to call him "Princess" in school and there were social workers looking into helping him.) I have a 12 year old son with anxiety issues, and there is no way in hell I would let him move in with his friends rather than deal with his problems at home. If he felt he needed music to express himself, I would let him use the basement to practice in my own home (even if it kept me up nights and pissed off my hubby) before I would let him move somewhere else. I think it is possible that P was somewhere low on the autism spectrum (maybe brought on from his epilepsy). He obviously had fond memories of his dad's musical inclinations (Tyka described how the family would gather around the piano before dad left.) Prince, after the divorce, seemed to want to heal through connecting musically to his father and it sounds like the household under Haywood was a my-way-or-the-highway environment and had some hard discipline (being locked in closets, picking dandy lions etc) . Tyka, if she is to be believed, stated that P's mom was a workaholic with two or three jobs and wasn't home much. The way I see it is that an undersized son with social anxiety and loneliness and a passion for music that was being curtailed by strict parents was being emotionally neglected by the fact that the household he lived in seemed like an intolerant and solitary place. He needed a family and guidance to deal with being the unique person he was (small and light-skinned and possibly autistic in that school environment must have been hard) and an avenue to express himself and he found it elsewhere. In that sense, he was emotionally abandoned by his family.. Rather than make "accommodations", they just let him go live somewhere else. Working with autistic kids, the word "accommodations" is a frequently used world in my job...so I know how families work to deal with this problems and it usually isn't just letting their kids move in with their friends' families. I don't doubt that his parents loved him but I do feel they let him down by being ill-equipped or too stubborn to deal with a kid with his complex emotional needs. When P said, presumably to his mother in WHen Doves Cry..."how could you just leave me standing alone in a world that is so cold" --that "world" could have been his own home. Imagine what he was feeling, his mother is out there saving the world through her social work and meanwhile her son is thinking "Well, what about me??" I assume that Mattie was so used to hard cases (beatings, physical neglect) that P's problems seemed insignificant in comparison or she was in denial.

rednblue said:

Thank you, thank you, thank you, too! It was clear that P was very perceptive and sensitive. It undoubtedly put him through a lot, that gift to perceive and feel so strongly. His music was imbued with that deep ability to sense and feel. Such a gift...don't have the words to do it justice.

[Edited 6/13/18 8:00am]

[Edited 6/13/18 8:06am]

Yes Purple - all of those things contributed to Prince's emotional issues and complexities; however, I think he was innately complex and had social anxiety disorder. You are right - he did not have enough of a stable and nurturing environment to combat or improve those issues - they worked against him. From a cultural standpoint, I think most women had to work to move the family ahead. Andre has spoken of this too. His Mother went back to school, and advanced her career in order to move them into a better neighborhood. However, it seems she was still able to be present and available for the kids. I'm sure that Prince's conflict with his Stepfather contributed to the issues with his Mother. He may have felt she was "choosing" Hayward over him. No question all of the issues within his family and his surroundings intesified his emotional struggles.

It also seemed his father was preoccupied with his music and absent which left his mother with most of the child-rearing duties. This lead to a fair amount of fighting followed by a divorce where his mother was working many jobs etc. Later she remarried etc.

What I am alluding to is that he did not have ongoing nurturance from his parents as they were other-wise

unavailable most of the time, (his mother was likely exhausted from working and away quite a bit, then remarried, and his father was consumed with his own career). It seemed there was little of the attention necessary for a child to feel valued for most of his childhood. I read in one of his biographies that he felt he and Tyka were "mistakes". He also mentioned when talking with Oprah that he practiced for hours and hours at home which, to me, implies an aloneness and perhaps a means to escape difficult feelings.

It seems though, that he experienced a closeness with his mother after he was established.

peggyon said:

It also seemed his father was preoccupied with his music and absent which left his mother with most of the child-rearing duties. This lead to a fair amount of fighting followed by a divorce where his mother was working many jobs etc. Later she remarried etc.

What I am alluding to is that he did not have ongoing nurturance from his parents as they were other-wise

unavailable most of the time, (his mother was likely exhausted from working and away quite a bit, then remarried, and his father was consumed with his own career). It seemed there was little of the attention necessary for a child to feel valued for most of his childhood. I read in one of his biographies that he felt he and Tyka were "mistakes". He also mentioned when talking with Oprah that he practiced for hours and hours at home which, to me, implies an aloneness and perhaps a means to escape difficult feelings.

It seems though, that he experienced a closeness with his mother after he was established.

Sorry guys, I just repeated what was said above by others...

PennyPurple said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

Prince's cousin Chaz actually spoke on it in a earlier interview. Saying this should be an example to teach people to seek help instead of hiding it.

To Whom It May Concern:

I'm NOT going to SHO anywhere!

Chazz is a little cray cray, but it is good that he said that.

Please don't EVER address me,reply to my post, or send me anymore Org Notes again.

where did you see that? i haven't seen him do splits anytime after the 1999 special show.

violetcrush said:

herb4 said:

Or, more likely, he didn't the view it the same way as what most people think is a "drug user" since it was probably almost always prescribed by a doctor and, I have no reason to think otherwise, for a good long while he probably needed them and his use was legit.

I mean, no one thinks of a cancer patient on Oxy, Morphine, Fentanyl or even marijuana as a "drug user" in the traditional sense. Or a depressed or anxious person who uses Xanax or something like that. It's "medicine" in any case, just some of it in the darker corners of life is "self prescribed". Receiving it from a doctor via a prescription lends it an air of credibility, even if in some cases the medication itself is stronger and more dangerous than things you can get off the street (weed, XTC, LSD).

Also, yeah, it's been pointed out but the big difference between Petty and Prince is that Petty was open about his usage and his past problems so that whole thing is apples to oranges.

So much of the real failure I see in these threads to really understand and comprehend what happened with Prince seems to hang on certain people's total, rigid, dogmatic and inflexible binary view of "drugs" - Good and evil - and the automatic assumption that anyone who uses "drugs" or succumbs to addiction is weak, bad, lacking in moral fiber and...well..."dirty" or something. It's absurd but I think that's why some people bend over backwards looking for other (often crazy) reasons and explanations fro Prince's overdose.

Exactly. I responded to RJP1205 before I saw your post. Prince was using these drugs as a medication to decrease physical pain, and he was not using them for recreational purposes. The privacy factor ties in with his inability to show weakness or vulnerability in any way, including his physical condition.

*

I watched a video awhile back of one of his 2000 shows (I think it was the last time he performed Darling Nikki) where he started doing multiple splits - going from side to side, over and over again. I can't remember how many he did, but probably at least 10. On the last split, as he came up he teeterd back and forth, almost losing his balance. I cringed when I saw that, knowing what we know now. I'm sure it went unnoticed back then, but now it is very telling. He went above and beyond in order to give his audience a better show. That, to me, is what we should be talking about, along with all of the incredible music he gave us.

Dr. D is an interesting factor, just the fact that he says the drug use went back that far would pretty much blow all the other associates out the water who said he was clean in the 80's, if that was true. I happen not to believe him, just based off what he said about Prince having stage fright, that part was laughable, prince loved the stage, probably where he felt most at home. Seen a few opinions that differ from that but I believe he loved being on that stage.

purplerabbithole said:

I am more inclined to believe that drug or alcohol usage initially is recreational if it is started in social settings. Once addiction sets in, obviously, it is no longer recreational. If Dr. D is correct, P was a long time user who partake in drugs in order to work and deal with social anxiety. If he is wrong, then P was a private user who more recently started. But in both scenarios, there is no indication of recreational usage at any point. He didn't seem to like drug using. To him, it was probably always medicinal in his mind.

disch said:

We don't know all the reasons why he took opioids, and I for one am not not going to pretend that I do have this personal insight. I don't. He kept whatever he was dealing with private from me and people like me. I know him from his public persona and that's pretty much it.

-

I'm also not going to take song lyrics from his 20s as some proclamation of his belief system and actions that he carried through every day of his whole life, nor would I assume that Prince acted out everything he preached (we all have beliefs that don't match our behavior. I believe everyone should exercise daily and would encourage people to do that. Do I? No. And I make all kinds of justifications for that).

-

We've had so many debates on this site about the use of the term "recreational." My understading is that it is a confusing and misleading term for many people who struggle with addiction, who often have a complex web of needs, some of which may be physical and others are emotional/psychological. The "pleasure" someone feels from "getting high" is likely intertwined to relief psychological and emotional issues, particularly in someone who reaches the point of addiction.

-

And addiction itself causes its own set of needs -- it's not about partying and fun, but avoiding the debilitating withdrawal symptoms that can come on when you stop taking the drugs (and we know those were a concern to prince as he brought the issue up with Dr S and Dr S prescribed him medication specifically to alleviate opioid withdrawal symptoms).

-

I know that we keep drifting back to simplistic and reductive views of drug use and addiction -- that that people take drugs either for physical pain relief OR for "recreation" and the "fun" of "getting high," and every drug user or addicted person fits into one group or the other. Fortunately I haven't struggled with addiction personally but I've read a lot about it and know that this simplistic viewpoint doesn't really described most addicted people's actual, complicated experience.

[Edited 6/13/18 6:43am]

ChocolateBox3121 said:

PennyPurple said:

Chazz is a little cray cray, but it is good that he said that.

Please don't EVER address me,reply to my post, or send me anymore Org Notes again.

damn, yall be getting feisty.

PeteSilas said:

where did you see that? i haven't seen him do splits anytime after the 1999 special show.

violetcrush said:

Exactly. I responded to RJP1205 before I saw your post. Prince was using these drugs as a medication to decrease physical pain, and he was not using them for recreational purposes. The privacy factor ties in with his inability to show weakness or vulnerability in any way, including his physical condition.

*

I watched a video awhile back of one of his 2000 shows (I think it was the last time he performed Darling Nikki) where he started doing multiple splits - going from side to side, over and over again. I can't remember how many he did, but probably at least 10. On the last split, as he came up he teeterd back and forth, almost losing his balance. I cringed when I saw that, knowing what we know now. I'm sure it went unnoticed back then, but now it is very telling. He went above and beyond in order to give his audience a better show. That, to me, is what we should be talking about, along with all of the incredible music he gave us.

It was during the HitnRun Tour shows which I attended twice.

PeteSilas said:

where did you see that? i haven't seen him do splits anytime after the 1999 special show.

violetcrush said:

Exactly. I responded to RJP1205 before I saw your post. Prince was using these drugs as a medication to decrease physical pain, and he was not using them for recreational purposes. The privacy factor ties in with his inability to show weakness or vulnerability in any way, including his physical condition.

*

I watched a video awhile back of one of his 2000 shows (I think it was the last time he performed Darling Nikki) where he started doing multiple splits - going from side to side, over and over again. I can't remember how many he did, but probably at least 10. On the last split, as he came up he teeterd back and forth, almost losing his balance. I cringed when I saw that, knowing what we know now. I'm sure it went unnoticed back then, but now it is very telling. He went above and beyond in order to give his audience a better show. That, to me, is what we should be talking about, along with all of the incredible music he gave us.

I don't believe it was during the 1999 special, although it might have been. It was the same performance where he did Darling Nikki with the dancer who came out in a "school girl" outfit. She put her skirt over his head and danced around him. Pretty sure it was at one of his concerts, but it could have been part of the 1999 show. It was posted on YT awhile ago.

peggyon said:

It also seemed his father was preoccupied with his music and absent which left his mother with most of the child-rearing duties. This lead to a fair amount of fighting followed by a divorce where his mother was working many jobs etc. Later she remarried etc.

What I am alluding to is that he did not have ongoing nurturance from his parents as they were other-wise

unavailable most of the time, (his mother was likely exhausted from working and away quite a bit, then remarried, and his father was consumed with his own career). It seemed there was little of the attention necessary for a child to feel valued for most of his childhood. I read in one of his biographies that he felt he and Tyka were "mistakes". He also mentioned when talking with Oprah that he practiced for hours and hours at home which, to me, implies an aloneness and perhaps a means to escape difficult feelings.

It seems though, that he experienced a closeness with his mother after he was established.

Yes, correct on all points, I think. In a written interview about the movie Purple Rain and how closely it mirrored his life, he said the scene where his Mom was crying was the only part that was true to his own life - and I don't think the crying was due to his Dad physically abusing her, but probably more due to her feeling alone and/or frustrated with their situation. I agree that, at least for stretches of time after the success of PR, he was closer to his Mother - and definitely his Father. I think he probably always felt somewhat abandoned by his Mother though. Watching his intense performance of 'Motherless Child" in 1999/2000 time frame shows he really connected with that song.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

where did you see that? i haven't seen him do splits anytime after the 1999 special show.

I don't believe it was during the 1999 special, although it might have been. It was the same performance where he did Darling Nikki with the dancer who came out in a "school girl" outfit. She put her skirt over his head and danced around him. Pretty sure it was at one of his concerts, but it could have been part of the 1999 show. It was posted on YT awhile ago.

Pete - just looked back on Princevault.com, and it jogged my memory. I'm pretty sure it was the November 11, 2000 Phila. PA show. Try searching for it on YT. It was out there for awhile....

ChocolateBox3121 said:

PeteSilas said:

where did you see that? i haven't seen him do splits anytime after the 1999 special show.

It was during the HitnRun Tour shows which I attended twice.

Chocolate - yes. Pretty sure the clip I saw of Darling Nikki was the Nov 11th Philly show....

PeteSilas said:

Dr. D is an interesting factor, just the fact that he says the drug use went back that far would pretty much blow all the other associates out the water who said he was clean in the 80's, if that was true. I happen not to believe him, just based off what he said about Prince having stage fright, that part was laughable, prince loved the stage, probably where he felt most at home. Seen a few opinions that differ from that but I believe he loved being on that stage.

purplerabbithole said:

I am more inclined to believe that drug or alcohol usage initially is recreational if it is started in social settings. Once addiction sets in, obviously, it is no longer recreational. If Dr. D is correct, P was a long time user who partake in drugs in order to work and deal with social anxiety. If he is wrong, then P was a private user who more recently started. But in both scenarios, there is no indication of recreational usage at any point. He didn't seem to like drug using. To him, it was probably always medicinal in his mind.

Pete - I definitely do not think Prince had anything to do with drugs in the 80's - at least not until the sort of "well chronicled" Ecstacy episode toward the end of '87. The Engineers, band members, girlfriends, and everyone in his camp have stated numerous times that he did not touch drugs, and would also not be seen drinking alcohol. Wendy tells the story of the big fight they had (that resulted in her and Lisa almost quitting the band before their Hit-n-Run tour), because she was photographed with a can of beer in her hand after the Sheridan UTCM premier concert. Now, whether he did things privately in the 80's that he shunned publicly, I guess we may never know, but I think it would have been hard to hide for such a long period of time, especially back then, as he spent so many hours with his band and associates.

violetcrush said:

violetcrush said:

I don't believe it was during the 1999 special, although it might have been. It was the same performance where he did Darling Nikki with the dancer who came out in a "school girl" outfit. She put her skirt over his head and danced around him. Pretty sure it was at one of his concerts, but it could have been part of the 1999 show. It was posted on YT awhile ago.

Pete - just looked back on Princevault.com, and it jogged my memory. I'm pretty sure it was the November 11, 2000 Phila. PA show. Try searching for it on YT. It was out there for awhile....

i will thanks, i've heard he did splits post 1999 but never seen it for myself.

ya, i only heard of him having the occasional drink of wine in those years, as in, they said he was "tipsy" when he recorded "How Come U Don't Call Me Anymore" but I never heard a thing about drugs until the infamous excstasy episode, i think the first time I heard of that story was the musician magazine in about 88, or it could have been Poplife, but it was pretty well known that he had at least done excstacy.

violetcrush said:

PeteSilas said:

Dr. D is an interesting factor, just the fact that he says the drug use went back that far would pretty much blow all the other associates out the water who said he was clean in the 80's, if that was true. I happen not to believe him, just based off what he said about Prince having stage fright, that part was laughable, prince loved the stage, probably where he felt most at home. Seen a few opinions that differ from that but I believe he loved being on that stage.

Pete - I definitely do not think Prince had anything to do with drugs in the 80's - at least not until the sort of "well chronicled" Ecstacy episode toward the end of '87. The Engineers, band members, girlfriends, and everyone in his camp have stated numerous times that he did not touch drugs, and would also not be seen drinking alcohol. Wendy tells the story of the big fight they had (that resulted in her and Lisa almost quitting the band before their Hit-n-Run tour), because she was photographed with a can of beer in her hand after the Sheridan UTCM premier concert. Now, whether he did things privately in the 80's that he shunned publicly, I guess we may never know, but I think it would have been hard to hide for such a long period of time, especially back then, as he spent so many hours with his band and associates.

PeteSilas said:

ya, i only heard of him having the occasional drink of wine in those years, as in, they said he was "tipsy" when he recorded "How Come U Don't Call Me Anymore" but I never heard a thing about drugs until the infamous excstasy episode, i think the first time I heard of that story was the musician magazine in about 88, or it could have been Poplife, but it was pretty well known that he had at least done excstacy.

violetcrush said:

Pete - I definitely do not think Prince had anything to do with drugs in the 80's - at least not until the sort of "well chronicled" Ecstacy episode toward the end of '87. The Engineers, band members, girlfriends, and everyone in his camp have stated numerous times that he did not touch drugs, and would also not be seen drinking alcohol. Wendy tells the story of the big fight they had (that resulted in her and Lisa almost quitting the band before their Hit-n-Run tour), because she was photographed with a can of beer in her hand after the Sheridan UTCM premier concert. Now, whether he did things privately in the 80's that he shunned publicly, I guess we may never know, but I think it would have been hard to hide for such a long period of time, especially back then, as he spent so many hours with his band and associates.

Yes, I think possibly the reason he had such a strong "trip" on the E was because he was not a drug user, and he was also a small guy. I have my thoughts on the things that drove him to that "dark" point and wanting to try the drug, but I will keep them to myself, as they would no doubt start a firestorm of debates here!! He did occasionally have a drink or two - usually wine I think. He mentions this in Insatiable - "I had a little wine, never anything stronger, so baby, I'm a little gone. Yeah, that's what I'll blame this on..." Also, in Alan Light's 1993 interview he writes about he and Prince drinking Port during the interview.

PeteSilas said:

violetcrush said:

Pete - just looked back on Princevault.com, and it jogged my memory. I'm pretty sure it was the November 11, 2000 Phila. PA show. Try searching for it on YT. It was out there for awhile....

i will thanks, i've heard he did splits post 1999 but never seen it for myself.

He must have stopped the splits after that tour. He definitely didn't do them during the Musicology shows and beyond. Let me know if you find it - my search came up with nothing...

violetcrush said:

peggyon said:

It also seemed his father was preoccupied with his music and absent which left his mother with most of the child-rearing duties. This lead to a fair amount of fighting followed by a divorce where his mother was working many jobs etc. Later she remarried etc.

What I am alluding to is that he did not have ongoing nurturance from his parents as they were other-wise

unavailable most of the time, (his mother was likely exhausted from working and away quite a bit, then remarried, and his father was consumed with his own career). It seemed there was little of the attention necessary for a child to feel valued for most of his childhood. I read in one of his biographies that he felt he and Tyka were "mistakes". He also mentioned when talking with Oprah that he practiced for hours and hours at home which, to me, implies an aloneness and perhaps a means to escape difficult feelings.

It seems though, that he experienced a closeness with his mother after he was established.

Yes, correct on all points, I think. In a written interview about the movie Purple Rain and how closely it mirrored his life, he said the scene where his Mom was crying was the only part that was true to his own life - and I don't think the crying was due to his Dad physically abusing her, but probably more due to her feeling alone and/or frustrated with their situation. I agree that, at least for stretches of time after the success of PR, he was closer to his Mother - and definitely his Father. I think he probably always felt somewhat abandoned by his Mother though. Watching his intense performance of 'Motherless Child" in 1999/2000 time frame shows he really connected with that song.

Oh, and also - Steve Parke has stated that Prince told him when he was 5 yrs old someone (he didn't specify who, but most likely one of his older siblings) took him to see the movie Psycho. So, I think lack of parental nurturing, poor choices by parents/siblings, childhood teasing, being bused to an all white Elementary school, and too much time alone all factored into worsening his innate complexities.