Prince talked years ago about how iTunes paid very little to the artist, and he felt it was not a fair deal. Spotify pays even less for streaming. (Most streaming pays literal pennies per stream.) Prince felt his music was worth more than a couple of cents, or a nickel.

I believe his music ended up streaming services after his death because it has to generate money. Prince had a fine idea about being paid, but it's different now. The courts ordered the estate to monetize itself and start earning money. And while Spotify, iheartRadio or iTunes is not keeping the lights on, it's not hurting either.

TrivialPursuit said:

Prince talked years ago about how iTunes paid very little to the artist, and he felt it was not a fair deal. Spotify pays even less for streaming. (Most streaming pays literal pennies per stream.) Prince felt his music was worth more than a couple of cents, or a nickel.

I believe his music ended up streaming services after his death because it has to generate money. Prince had a fine idea about being paid, but it's different now. The courts ordered the estate to monetize itself and start earning money. And while Spotify, iheartRadio or iTunes is not keeping the lights on, it's not hurting either.

Like Prince said, the situation is all about the deal, and right now the estate's managers interest is to generate revenue to cover their compensation, pay estate taxes, and keep the vital work going to preserve and archive Prince's volumes of music and dispense the final details of the Nelson family's ineritance (Lawdamercy!).

>

Streaming services is one kind of useful advertisement for Prince's music since he is now a legacy act not getting radio play reserved for today's acts. I feel that what they have streaming on Youtube, Tidal, iTunes & Spotify, etc. is plenty at this point. Unless the licensing and payouts are done just right most of these deals with distribution entities ultimately take too much away from the people who supply the music product. IMO, it would ultimately be better for the estate/inheritors to use more equitable services like Bandcamp or independent music labels for the products' distribution and advertising--time will tell.

>

Seems like megafans want Prince to be a highly popular star again postmortem, by any means necessary, but the general likelihood is that this won't happen right now. Maybe a resurgence in popularity or spikes of interest will develop over the broad span of time after the fascination with his death and noteriety of his passing fades, but why would one sell more of Prince's goods for the lowest payout in the meanwhile? Better projects and deals may develop over time. This is what Prince was holding out for, anyway, in his fight for artists' rights. Still, WB Records maitains a relatively high stake in maintaining a high profile for their treasured artist in holding the distribution rights to some of his most popular works, so that in itself will help greatly to keep Prince's name alive. Prince made that deal, BTW, so he was on to something on that tip!

TrivialPursuit said:

Germanegro said:

Germanegro said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Prince talked years ago about how iTunes paid very little to the artist, and he felt it was not a fair deal. Spotify pays even less for streaming. (Most streaming pays literal pennies per stream.) Prince felt his music was worth more than a couple of cents, or a nickel.

I believe his music ended up streaming services after his death because it has to generate money. Prince had a fine idea about being paid, but it's different now. The courts ordered the estate to monetize itself and start earning money. And while Spotify, iheartRadio or iTunes is not keeping the lights on, it's not hurting either.

Like Prince said, the situation is all about the deal, and right now the estate's managers interest is to generate revenue to cover their compensation, pay estate taxes, and keep the vital work going to preserve and archive Prince's volumes of music and dispense the final details of the Nelson family's ineritance (Lawdamercy!).

>

Streaming services is one kind of useful advertisement for Prince's music since he is now a legacy act not getting radio play reserved for today's acts. I feel that what they have streaming on Youtube, Tidal, iTunes & Spotify, etc. is plenty at this point. Unless the licensing and payouts are done just right most of these deals with distribution entities ultimately take too much away from the people who supply the music product. IMO, it would ultimately be better for the estate/inheritors to use more equitable services like Bandcamp or independent music labels for the products' distribution and advertising--time will tell.

>

Seems like megafans want Prince to be a highly popular star again postmortem, by any means necessary, but the general likelihood is that this won't happen right now. Maybe a resurgence in popularity or spikes of interest will develop over the broad span of time after the fascination with his death and noteriety of his passing fades, but why would one sell more of Prince's goods for the lowest payout in the meanwhile? Better projects and deals may develop over time. This is what Prince was holding out for, anyway, in his fight for artists' rights. Still, WB Records maitains a relatively high stake in maintaining a high profile for their treasured artist in holding the distribution rights to some of his most popular works, so that in itself will help greatly to keep Prince's name alive. Prince made that deal, BTW, so he was on to something on that tip!

Excellent post Germanegro

rogifan said:

It’s just weird that nothing from 1994-2013 is available. All it does is give the impression Prince did nothing after the 80s. I wonder if it’s a Tidal thing? Is there some agreement with Tidal whereby this music can only be sold/streamed on that platform?

The stuff from 1993/4 onward was NPG not solely WB, so there is a difference license there. Now why that isn't at least on the YouTube channel is odd to me. I would be nice to have something beyond The Hits/The B-Sides around.

Obviously I wouldn't know much, being on the fandom side of things and ignorant to the publishing and distribution dealings that were done with those albums that Arista, Sony/Columbia, Universal, Target and etc. distributors who had dealings with the NPG Records. More legal clearances could need to be declared before starting to renew their publishing and the Estate Trust could be busy digging into each one.

>

In the meanwhile, for your everyday broadcast exposure, call your local public radio station and request Prince music!

TrivialPursuit said:

rogifan said:

It’s just weird that nothing from 1994-2013 is available. All it does is give the impression Prince did nothing after the 80s. I wonder if it’s a Tidal thing? Is there some agreement with Tidal whereby this music can only be sold/streamed on that platform?

The stuff from 1993/4 onward was NPG not solely WB, so there is a difference license there. Now why that isn't at least on the YouTube channel is odd to me. I would be nice to have something beyond The Hits/The B-Sides around.

Startups were over-paying and throwing around phatstacks just to scale up quickly. I think he turned down something early on. That Tidal deal though? (WHYDFML, ooh yeah).

Prince was about getting paid for his work(s). The end.

rdhull said:

Prince was about getting paid for his work(s). The end.

Exactly. He wasn't a ludite, he just wanted a fair price for his work.

NouveauDance said:

rdhull said:

Prince was about getting paid for his work(s). The end.

Exactly. He wasn't a ludite, he just wanted a fair price for his work.

It was about the only thing he was consistent on for years and years. That and loving God.


Mind you, his idea of what was fair wasn't always in line with everyone else's, he seemed to always think he should be making Purple Rain money for his albums.

jaawwnn said:

NouveauDance said:

Exactly. He wasn't a ludite, he just wanted a fair price for his work.

It was about the only thing he was consistent on for years and years. That and loving God.


Mind you, his idea of what was fair wasn't always in line with everyone else's, he seemed to always think he should be making Purple Rain money for his albums.

I agree with that but he def would not be selling himself short by even one penny. He knew his baseline worth. He spoke all about this in the beloved Jughead. He didnt want to be treated like other artists of yore who were tricked and given little while companies saw the profits for others creativity/greatness. So he may have went overboard with his idea of fairness..but so did record companies, lawyers etc. And if nobody bit then he was ok to keep it moving to another deal that mattered to him. He had the carte blanche to do that, that only few artists get to.

the best way to put it was that Prince did not really care how much money HE made or was paid.. his issue was with how the pie was cut up--that is some mamma-jamma wearing glasses and an alligator shirt should not make more than the artist.

Streaming services pay huge amounts of money to the majors and Merlin (an organisation that represents indie labels) annually - these are all covered by formal arrangements with non disclosure agreements in place. Furthermore, as these arrangements are not mentioned in artist contracts, they are not obliged to pass any of that money on to the acts. Nice, isn't it?

My own take on Prince being against streaming services is that he was aware of this and wanted to have similar direct agreements with Spotify et al, essentially getting this adrev money rather than it going to WB. I can only presume he achieved this, what with being able to own his masters eventually and consequently have more control of his music. This is obviously supposition on my part.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

the best way to put it was that Prince did not really care how much money HE made or was paid.. his issue was with how the pie was cut up--that is some mamma-jamma wearing glasses and an alligator shirt should not make more than the artist.

Nah, that was regarding geeky critics who probably couldnt even get laid, deciding on what was good or bad in an artists music.

David Lee Roth (and no doubt, many others) felt and said the same: "The reason critics like Elvis Costello, is becasue they LOOK like Elvis Costello."

jjam said:

Streaming services pay huge amounts of money to the majors and Merlin (an organisation that represents indie labels) annually - these are all covered by formal arrangements with non disclosure agreements in place. Furthermore, as these arrangements are not mentioned in artist contracts, they are not obliged to pass any of that money on to the acts. Nice, isn't it?

My own take on Prince being against streaming services is that he was aware of this and wanted to have similar direct agreements with Spotify et al, essentially getting this adrev money rather than it going to WB. I can only presume he achieved this, what with being able to own his masters eventually and consequently have more control of his music. This is obviously supposition on my part.

Which is why he chose to go with Tidal.

rdhull said:

I agree with that but he def would not be selling himself short by even one penny. He knew his baseline worth. He spoke all about this in the beloved Jughead. He didnt want to be treated like other artists of yore who were tricked and given little while companies saw the profits for others creativity/greatness. So he may have went overboard with his idea of fairness..but so did record companies, lawyers etc. And if nobody bit then he was ok to keep it moving to another deal that mattered to him. He had the carte blanche to do that, that only few artists get to.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

the best way to put it was that Prince did not really care how much money HE made or was paid.. his issue was with how the pie was cut up--that is some mamma-jamma wearing glasses and an alligator shirt should not make more than the artist.

Agree with both. Even though it was looking tight at times, including near the end with all the talk of "peer to peer selling" which i'd say was somewhere inbetween a real committment and the reality that he had burnt a lot of bridges, he always managed to make it bounce back and I have no doubt that he would have continued to do so.

[Edited 5/25/18 9:32am]

rdhull said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

the best way to put it was that Prince did not really care how much money HE made or was paid.. his issue was with how the pie was cut up--that is some mamma-jamma wearing glasses and an alligator shirt should not make more than the artist.

Nah, that was regarding geeky critics who probably couldnt even get laid, deciding on what was good or bad in an artists music.

David Lee Roth (and no doubt, many others) felt and said the same: "The reason critics like Elvis Costello, is becasue they LOOK like Elvis Costello."

I am glad you got the reference but it was just that... and I am correct he did not like others making money off of his work--or at least wanted it all to be fair.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

rdhull said:

Nah, that was regarding geeky critics who probably couldnt even get laid, deciding on what was good or bad in an artists music.

David Lee Roth (and no doubt, many others) felt and said the same: "The reason critics like Elvis Costello, is becasue they LOOK like Elvis Costello."

I am glad you got the reference but it was just that... and I am correct he did not like others making money off of his work--or at least wanted it all to be fair.

Oh thats definitely true, I was just saying the example was for another crtiticism Prince had.

rdhull said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I am glad you got the reference but it was just that... and I am correct he did not like others making money off of his work--or at least wanted it all to be fair.

Oh thats definitely true, I was just saying the example was for another crtiticism Prince had.

yeah, I lifted that quote for effect! (I am still mad at my dad for putting all my prince in a shed when I was in the Army! The records were warped and most of the posters and magazines were ruined by water damage or mice!

My question has always been: how much LESS does streaming pay than traditional terrestrial radio stations did/do?

At least radio stations had logs; this new model's problem is the cheating.

rogifan said:

Germanegro said:

Like Prince said, the situation is all about the deal, and right now the estate's managers interest is to generate revenue to cover their compensation, pay estate taxes, and keep the vital work going to preserve and archive Prince's volumes of music and dispense the final details of the Nelson family's ineritance (Lawdamercy!).

>

Streaming services is one kind of useful advertisement for Prince's music since he is now a legacy act not getting radio play reserved for today's acts. I feel that what they have streaming on Youtube, Tidal, iTunes & Spotify, etc. is plenty at this point. Unless the licensing and payouts are done just right most of these deals with distribution entities ultimately take too much away from the people who supply the music product. IMO, it would ultimately be better for the estate/inheritors to use more equitable services like Bandcamp or independent music labels for the products' distribution and advertising--time will tell.

>

Seems like megafans want Prince to be a highly popular star again postmortem, by any means necessary, but the general likelihood is that this won't happen right now. Maybe a resurgence in popularity or spikes of interest will develop over the broad span of time after the fascination with his death and noteriety of his passing fades, but why would one sell more of Prince's goods for the lowest payout in the meanwhile? Better projects and deals may develop over time. This is what Prince was holding out for, anyway, in his fight for artists' rights. Still, WB Records maitains a relatively high stake in maintaining a high profile for their treasured artist in holding the distribution rights to some of his most popular works, so that in itself will help greatly to keep Prince's name alive. Prince made that deal, BTW, so he was on to something on that tip!

It’s just weird that nothing from 1994-2013 is available. All it does is give the impression Prince did nothing after the 80s. I wonder if it’s a Tidal thing? Is there some agreement with Tidal whereby this music can only be sold/streamed on that platform?

Tidal still has most of it.

TrivialPursuit said:

Prince talked years ago about how iTunes paid very little to the artist, and he felt it was not a fair deal. Spotify pays even less for streaming. (Most streaming pays literal pennies per stream.) Prince felt his music was worth more than a couple of cents, or a nickel.

I believe his music ended up streaming services after his death because it has to generate money. Prince had a fine idea about being paid, but it's different now. The courts ordered the estate to monetize itself and start earning money. And while Spotify, iheartRadio or iTunes is not keeping the lights on, it's not hurting either.

My take is that his issue wasn't so much with streaming in principle, but more with his belief that streaming did not fairly compensate artists for their work. After all, he pretty much invented streaming because he pioneered distribution of music using the internet. Another point is that he was very much a believer in albums and I recall watching interviews or reading transcripts of interviews during which he laments the state of the music industry as being so singles-driven. I think he might have mentioned this aforementioned point during his 2014 appearance on the Arsenio Hall Show. Also, at the 2015 Grammys, he stated, "Like books and black lives, albums still matter".

.

I feel that there was a lot of merit to his position on streaming and albums. He was very much an ARTIST who was more interested in the CRAFT of music than in how many records he sold. He believed that music was worth existing for its own sake, as a form of expression, not just for profit. Likewise, he believed that being a musician was/is an important profession, an essential profession, and that he should be compensated fairly for his work and should be able to own his own work.

.

One of the (many) reasons that I hold Prince in such high regard is that he "put his money where his mouth was" and fought for what he believed. During his dispute with Warner Brothers, when he had changed his name to and had slave written across his face, he took a beating in the press and in the court of public opinion. But he withstood these aforementioned adversities (during the period of dispute with WB) in order to achieve his goal of owning his master recordings. I feel that so many current musicians respect Prince not only for the quality of his musicianship but also for his struggle for ownership of his masters because his struggle, ultimately, has benefitted all musicians in the recording industry.

[Edited 5/26/18 10:05am]

206Michelle said:

TrivialPursuit said:

Prince talked years ago about how iTunes paid very little to the artist, and he felt it was not a fair deal. Spotify pays even less for streaming. (Most streaming pays literal pennies per stream.) Prince felt his music was worth more than a couple of cents, or a nickel.

I believe his music ended up streaming services after his death because it has to generate money. Prince had a fine idea about being paid, but it's different now. The courts ordered the estate to monetize itself and start earning money. And while Spotify, iheartRadio or iTunes is not keeping the lights on, it's not hurting either.

My take is that his issue wasn't so much with streaming in principle, but more with his belief that streaming did not fairly compensate artists for their work. After all, he pretty much invented streaming because he pioneered distribution of music using the internet. Another point is that he was very much a believer in albums and I recall watching interviews or reading transcripts of interviews during which he laments the state of the music industry as being so singles-driven. I think he might have mentioned this aforementioned point during his 2014 appearance on the Arsenio Hall Show. Also, at the 2015 Grammys, he stated, "Like books and black lives, albums still matter".

.

I feel that there was a lot of merit to his position on streaming and albums. He was very much an ARTIST who was more interested in the CRAFT of music than in how many records he sold. He believed that music was worth existing for its own sake, as a form of expression, not just for profit. Likewise, he believed that being a musician was/is an important profession, an essential profession, and that he should be compensated fairly for his work and should be able to own his own work.

.

One of the (many) reasons that I hold Prince in such high regard is that he "put his money where his mouth was" and fought for what he believed. During his dispute with Warner Brothers, when he had changed his name to and had slave written across his face, he took a beating in the press and in the court of public opinion. But he withstood these aforementioned adversities (during the period of dispute with WB) in order to achieve his goal of owning his master recordings. I feel that so many current musicians respect Prince not only for the quality of his musicianship but also for his struggle for ownership of his masters because his struggle, ultimately, has benefitted all musicians in the recording industry.

[Edited 5/26/18 10:05am]

Agreed 100%, excellent points!