benni said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

If possible, I love Prince even more after all of the gut-wrenching revelations of the past week. I know that many people think of him as this mythic (guitar and sex) god, but the man was, well, a man...with human frailties. That doesn't mean, however, that his idealistic anti-drug views were not sincere.

Also, as one who lives with chronic pain, I know firsthand how unbearable that can be. And, I don't dance and use my hands for a living. I think he just got caught up and didn't know how to end the vicious cycle of opiate dependency. And, the reactions of anger and disappointment by some of the fam speak to the reason why he hid his dependency until the tragic end.

I would not be angry with him, if he were still with us. I would not be angry with him, if he had sought help sooner and admitted to himself, if no one else, that he had a problem. I'm angry with him, because he's not here, because his death was senseless, because if he had sought help sooner, if he had admitted to himself that he needed that help sooner, he'd still be with us. I can forgive him for using pain pills. I need them myself and deal with chronic pain on a daily basis. I live with a health condition that can kill me at any time. However, I've not used any pain pills in the last 2 years, not since we lost Prince, except for over the counter medication, which really doesn't help, but I have no insurance, therefore no doctor, and I will not turn to the street for pain medication. I can't even get what my doctor calls, "life saving medication" because I can't afford it. I could accept him being dependent upon those medications, because I do understand chronic pain. What I can't accept is that he cared more about his image and his privacy, than he did in seeking out the help he needed for his pain and his dependency. That is what I am angry with him about. I'm not angry that he was using the pain pills, I'm angry that he thought it was a big enough deal that he had to have them, that he wouldn't get help, until it was too late.

Benni - What about Medicaid? In my state you can make a certain amount of money and still be eligible. Then you have at least a yearly check up without a copay.

Rebeljuice said:

benni said:

I have always, will always, respect the man, the music, and the artistry. But I would be lying if I said I wasn't angry with him. Because I am. I am angry with him that he didn't seek out medical help for dealing with and treating his pain. I am angry with him that he didn't set aside the music for a short time, to get better. I am angry with him that he hid this so well, that we could hold him to the light and tell our kids, "See? You don't have to resort to drugs in order to live large and beautifully." I am angry with him because he didn't trust us, the fans, enough to think that we would support him even through his pain and his battle with pain medication. I love him and that will never change, but I am angry with him right now, because he didn't have to die, if he had taken the responsibility, faced himself, and got treatment years ago.

[Edited 4/24/18 0:41am]

Yup. Agree. Notwithstanding being unable to tell my kids that he was a clean living genius, I was sucked into the world of heroin addiction many many years ago. Prince and his music played a part in me being able to beat down the dragon and get clean. Obviously there were more factors involved than just that, but he helped. Here was my favourite artist, clean as a whistle telling me he dont need no drugs to get high.... Hmmmm.

Doesnt detract from his musical greatness. I will always hold that up and be proud to have had it be the soundtrack to my life. But the man himself has pissed me off somewhat for the time being...

I have thought about this dichotomy in Prince (some would say hypocrisy). Do as I say not as I do. I feel he had only good intentions with his message of clean living. Looking at it that way, you and others who have shared similar accounts here are his success stories. The man was a master of projection, whether he could live it himself - I think he tried and failed for many reasons. Maybe that's why he was so adamant about the message.

however u might respond to all of this ... it tells u a lot more about yourself than him ... your own fears, your own struggles, your own hurting ...

so this is another chance for all of us to learn from him ... I mean ... not from his mistakes cuz it's not our place to judge and as long we didn't walk in his shoes we have no idea what kind of struggles he really had ... the only thing I know is: it takes a lot to be prince for 4 decades ... to look like this, to sound like this, to perform like this, to create like this ... it takes a lot more than most of us (including me of course) would be willing to do ... I worship him for every step he took, for every sacrifice he made.

whatever u may think (out of your own knowledge, your own experience) he did right or wrong ... it was HIS journey we're talking about. and what would have been wrong for you and your journey might have been right for him ... at least at that point of time. he was a human beeing like all of us, designed his life and made his decisions ... right or wrong, no one really knows ... and each of his decisions was part of his very own journey. each of his decisions brought him exactly where his soul could evolve and grow ... he was on his way this entire lifetime like the rest of us.

no, I mean ... its another chance for all of us to learn about ourselves ...

angry with him? hell why? he didn't owe anyone anything!
whatever he did ... he did it to be who we wanted him to be and to give us what we wanted to get!

loving him more or less? hell how? remember? love is that thing that comes without conditions!
I love that man beyond words for so many reasons and there's nothing he could ever have changed about that.

it broke my heart all over again to learn how much he went through and wish none of it ever happened ... but then again ... it had to

poppys said:

rogifan said:

poppys said:

I have thought about this dichotomy in Prince (some would say hypocrisy). Do as I say not as I do. I feel he had only good intentions with his message of clean living. Looking at it that way, you and others who have shared similar accounts here are his success stories. The man was a master of projection, whether he could live it himself - I think he tried and failed for many reasons. Maybe that's why he was so adamant about the message.

I think of clean living as being sbout more than just drugs. And whatever issues Prince had that turned him to painkillers it seems outside of that he was living a mostly healthy lifestyle. Didn’t smoke, didn’t drink a lot, seemingly ate heslthy. Up until the end appeared to be in good shape. No doubt didn’t get as much sleep as he should have but I doubt he’s unique there. I do think the views he had on recreational drug use, smoking, etc. were sincere. Some will still see him as a hypocrite though I think that’s a bit unfair.

Totally agree. I still struggle to think that he was anything other than very clean-living in the 80s / most of the 90s. I mean, why would he bother to lie? The Black Album / E story just confirms this for me - that he'd hardly if ever taken drugs before, so when he does take a pill he freaks out so much he cancels a whole album. (Rather than saying, 'wow, Ingrid - those are strong. Got any more?")

lemoncrush19 said:

however u might respond to all of this ... it tells u a lot more about yourself than him ... your own fears, your own struggles, your own hurting ...

so this is another chance for all of us to learn from him ... I mean ... not from his mistakes cuz it's not our place to judge and as long we didn't walk in his shoes we have no idea what kind of struggles he really had ... the only thing I know is: it takes a lot to be prince for 4 decades ... to look like this, to sound like this, to perform like this, to create like this ... it takes a lot more than most of us (including me of course) would be willing to do ... I worship him for every step he took, for every sacrifice he made.

whatever u may think (out of your own knowledge, your own experience) he did right or wrong ... it was HIS journey we're talking about. and what would have been wrong for you and your journey might have been right for him ... at least at that point of time. he was a human beeing like all of us, designed his life and made his decisions ... right or wrong, no one really knows ... and each of his decisions was part of his very own journey. each of his decisions brought him exactly where his soul could evolve and grow ... he was on his way this entire lifetime like the rest of us.

no, I mean ... its another chance for all of us to learn about ourselves ...

angry with him? hell why? he didn't owe anyone anything!
whatever he did ... he did it to be who we wanted him to be and to give us what we wanted to get!

loving him more or less? hell how? remember? love is that thing that comes without conditions!
I love that man beyond words for so many reasons and there's nothing he could ever have changed about that.

it broke my heart all over again to learn how much he went through and wish none of it ever happened ... but then again ... it had to

Robbajobba said:

rogifan said:

poppys said: I think of clean living as being sbout more than just drugs. And whatever issues Prince had that turned him to painkillers it seems outside of that he was living a mostly healthy lifestyle. Didn’t smoke, didn’t drink a lot, seemingly ate heslthy. Up until the end appeared to be in good shape. No doubt didn’t get as much sleep as he should have but I doubt he’s unique there. I do think the views he had on recreational drug use, smoking, etc. were sincere. Some will still see him as a hypocrite though I think that’s a bit unfair.

Totally agree. I still struggle to think that he was anything other than very clean-living in the 80s / most of the 90s. I mean, why would he bother to lie? The Black Album / E story just confirms this for me - that he'd hardly if ever taken drugs before, so when he does take a pill he freaks out so much he cancels a whole album. (Rather than saying, 'wow, Ingrid - those are strong. Got any more?")

i've heard an interview with cat saying she was the one to give him ex, but then i heard another where she denies any drug use around prince.

lemoncrush19 said:

however u might respond to all of this ... it tells u a lot more about yourself than him ... your own fears, your own struggles, your own hurting ...

so this is another chance for all of us to learn from him ... I mean ... not from his mistakes cuz it's not our place to judge and as long we didn't walk in his shoes we have no idea what kind of struggles he really had ... the only thing I know is: it takes a lot to be prince for 4 decades ... to look like this, to sound like this, to perform like this, to create like this ... it takes a lot more than most of us (including me of course) would be willing to do ... I worship him for every step he took, for every sacrifice he made.

whatever u may think (out of your own knowledge, your own experience) he did right or wrong ... it was HIS journey we're talking about. and what would have been wrong for you and your journey might have been right for him ... at least at that point of time. he was a human beeing like all of us, designed his life and made his decisions ... right or wrong, no one really knows ... and each of his decisions was part of his very own journey. each of his decisions brought him exactly where his soul could evolve and grow ... he was on his way this entire lifetime like the rest of us.

no, I mean ... its another chance for all of us to learn about ourselves ...

angry with him? hell why? he didn't owe anyone anything!
whatever he did ... he did it to be who we wanted him to be and to give us what we wanted to get!

loving him more or less? hell how? remember? love is that thing that comes without conditions!
I love that man beyond words for so many reasons and there's nothing he could ever have changed about that.

it broke my heart all over again to learn how much he went through and wish none of it ever happened ... but then again ... it had to

Thank you!! Well said.

For those that think it is wrong to feel angry:

The five stages of grief, popularly referred to as DABDA. They include:

• Denial
• Anger
• Bargaining
• Depression
• Acceptance
  
  
  
  
  
  I've experienced denial in the beginning, and bargaining, and depression. I don't quite think I've ever gotten to Acceptance. And I am just now experiencing anger. Why is it wrong? It is a natural part of the healing process.

Thizz said:

The most embarrassing part of this thread is realizing that this forum is populated mostly by people who never grew out of childish mindsets

Oh? Care to elaborate?

benni said:

Thizz said:

The most embarrassing part of this thread is realizing that this forum is populated mostly by people who never grew out of childish mindsets

Oh? Care to elaborate?

You've been nailed, apparently.
Hit a self-projecting nerve?

benni said:

Thizz said:

benni said:

Oh? Care to elaborate?

It’s self-evident. There’s people, who I can only assume to be of adult age, talking about how to deal with the stages of grief. Seriously, these are entirely basic things and many here don’t even know how to interpret them. It’s a. Ringeworthy level of embarrassment. Lil Peep had a young teenage audience, when he died his fans understood the situation and weren’t wondering what emotions were appropriate and how they should go about processing the emotions - it makes me wish Prince made more of an effort to expand his audience in later years, because if this is any reflection of his fans I can’t imagine his concerts attracted a crowd that was pleasant to be around Artists have bigger life callings than you, they create intellectual property. They value what they find within themselves because that is their value to the world. Many artists use drug of various sorts to help them reach within themselves Prince also had an image to uphold. For whatever reason it may if not been appropriate for his fans to be aware of his drug use - because it’s a private issue, and really none of your business. Prince is, and was, a clean act.

Yes, they are basic things, dealing with grief. But what everyone forgets, is that no two people grieve exactly alike. Some take time to process their grief, others do not, but since we deal with grief in one certain way, we expect everyone to deal with grief in the same manner. I was a hospice social worker after I first received my master's degree, and I can't tell you the number of times when a family member mentioned they were angry at so and so for dying, and the rest of the family would jump on that family member, as though it is somehow wrong to feel anger. Anger is a natural part of the healing process and the stages aren't linear. It's frustrating to read others jumping in and saying, "Oh you shouldn't be angry", or "You shouldn't feel that way", or "I'm better than you because I still love him and my perceptions haven't changed." I would argue that those that are expressing grief, their perceptions haven't changed either, but they are still processing the loss of an individual who's "intellectual property" played such a huge part of their lives, was the sound track to many of the memories they built over the years.

And I disagree that artists have "bigger life callings". I agree that they have a huge life calling, there is no doubting that. But my life calling to be a social worker, to help others, is just as huge (to me and to the people I help). Teachers have a life calling, and it is just as huge to them as it is to the students they teach and the parents of their students. We may not create intellectual property, but we do create deep and lasting impressions on those we come across in our field of work.

And whether it is any of our business or not, that information is out there now. It is a part of his history, something that will be talked about when Prince is remembered years from now. Once Pandora's box was opened, there is no putting back that information and hiding from it. I would rather deal with that now, than to say, "Hey, you know what, none of my business, doesn't matter, I'm just going to ignore it." Something good can from this, but only if we face it head on, and then take what we learn to develop preventive programs, generate laws or programs designed to deal with the opioid epidemic in this country. If we ignore it, we don't do the memory of him any favors, because he becomes just one more rock star who died from a drug overdose (accidental, yes, but with years of use). He becomes just another brick in that wall, a mundane death, when Prince was anything but mundane. If we take this tragedy and use it to prevent further deaths like it, then maybe we can create some kind of meaning from his death. Because right now, this is senseless and tragic, and there is no meaning to it.

So, if your goal was to insinuate I was being childish for listing the stages of grief, so be it. I would argue that those that fight with each other at every turn, put others down for no reason except that they can, and in essence, just try to create drama, are childish, but what do I know?

Thizz said:

It’s self-evident. There’s people, who I can only assume to be of adult age, talking about how to deal with the stages of grief. Seriously, these are entirely basic things and many here don’t even know how to interpret them. It’s a cringewortht level of embarrassment. Lil Peep had a young teenage audience, when he died his fans understood the situation and weren’t wondering what emotions were appropriate and how they should go about processing the emotions - it makes me wish Prince made more of an effort to expand his audience in later years, because if this is any reflection of his fans I can’t imagine his concerts attracted a crowd that was pleasant to be around

Artists have bigger life callings than you, they create intellectual property. They value what they find within themselves because that is their value to the world. Many artists use drug of various sorts to help them reach within themselves

Prince also had an image to uphold. For whatever reason it may if not been appropriate for his fans to be aware of his drug use - because it’s a private issue, and really none of your business. Prince is, and was, a clean act.



So does it make you feel better to dump on Benni? That's pretty childish.
And what the fuck does "artists have bigger life callings than you" mean, pompus much?

[Edited 4/25/18 18:42pm]

bonatoc said:

benni said:

Oh? Care to elaborate?

You've been nailed, apparently.
Hit a self-projecting nerve?

lol - Perhaps I just wanted him to elaborate since he posted it right after mine with no indication as to who he was directing it at. Usually those kinds of remarks are directed at one or two people in particular and I'm too tired tonight to be tactful.

poppys said:

^^ slumming it.

benni said:

Thizz said:

benni said:

Oh? Care to elaborate?

It’s self-evident. There’s people, who I can only assume to be of adult age, talking about how to deal with the stages of grief. Seriously, these are entirely basic things and many here don’t even know how to interpret them. It’s a cringewortht level of embarrassment. Lil Peep had a young teenage audience, when he died his fans understood the situation and weren’t wondering what emotions were appropriate and how they should go about processing the emotions - it makes me wish Prince made more of an effort to expand his audience in later years, because if this is any reflection of his fans I can’t imagine his concerts attracted a crowd that was pleasant to be around Artists have bigger life callings than you, they create intellectual property. They value what they find within themselves because that is their value to the world. Many artists use drug of various sorts to help them reach within themselves Prince also had an image to uphold. For whatever reason it may if not been appropriate for his fans to be aware of his drug use - because it’s a private issue, and really none of your business. Prince is, and was, a clean act. [Edited 4/25/18 18:22pm]

Let me guess - you see yourself as an artist with a bigger calling in life than us mere mortals. Shall we continue on this cringewortht level of embarrasment?

bonatoc said:

benni said:

Oh? Care to elaborate?

You've been nailed, apparently.
Hit a self-projecting nerve?

At least your sentence structure is short and somewhat decipherable this time. Pointless nonetheless.

purplefam99 said:

Wanted to say I read the thread and commented as I read. I’m Not trying to jump on you Benni with my post above. I shared the book To be helpful. I hope it came across that way. Best.

Purplefam, I appreciate the reference. However, he is not talking about anger that comes from the grieving process, but rather the type of anger that causes individuals to "behave violently and exploitatively". He also stated that anger should not be suppressed and to view it as a "gift to connect to unmet needs". Having said that, it appears that someone feeling angry towards Prince makes others very uncomfortable.

Anger is a natural process of grieving. It is a natural reaction to certain things in our life. Someone comes up to you and punches you in the face for no reason, you are bound to get angry, and rightly so. A boyfriend/girlfriend breaks up with you when you were thinking that everything was going wonderfully, you're apt to feel hurt and angry about it. Is there an unmet need there? Yes, there is, however, it's a natural part of healing and letting go.

My feeling angry toward Prince is lessening every day. It was never a "How dare he! I'm so angry I could spit nails, hit something, throw something..." type of anger, but more of a "This is so senseless, it didn't have to happen," type of anger.

The reactions of some to someone expressing feeling anger towards Prince just shows how protective some are towards Prince even now. These expressions of protection towards Prince are no different than Kirk J feeling protective of Prince and trying to guard him and his privacy, and thereby enabling his continued use of these opioids. These expressions of protection towards Prince are no different than those that he surrounded himself with that constantly said "yes" and continued to enable him. Prince needed someone around him that would get angry with him and tell him "no! enough is enough." He didn't have that around him because he was Prince and everyone tiptoed around him, trying to protect him, and also to protect their own positions around him.

People are saying Prince needed love and compassion around him. I feel both love and compassion towards Prince. But I'm also being real. An addict (which I never thought I would ever use that word to describe Prince - and I have fought against using that word, until I discovered the years of use, the years of hiding his use and I refuse to enable him even in death) needs tough love, not to be handled with kid gloves.

People are saying he had a tough childhood, he was essentially abandoned. A lot of people have had tough childhoods, have been abandoned. I was one of those. For Prince though, it is an excuse to say, "It's okay that he used drugs, because he had a rough childhood. It's okay, we forgive him. It's okay because he was in a lot of pain and he needed them." Bull. It's not okay. He was self-medicating all these years, instead of him actually reaching out to doctors on a regular basis and being treated appropriately for his pain. He was having others get him pain pills in their names, instead of going to a doctor himself and being treated. That's not okay. Many of us live with chronic pain, too, but we get the appropriate treatment and have that treatment monitored by a physician. Instead he was hiding pills, he was hiding his addiction, and there was no one around him that knew what was happening that would brave his wrath to get him the help he needed, until it was too late. They were all saying, "It's okay. It's Prince. We have to protect him, help him protect his image and his privacy. He's someone that needs our love and our compassion, so we'll just work to protect him through this." (And thereby enable him).

poppys said:

benni said:

I would not be angry with him, if he were still with us. I would not be angry with him, if he had sought help sooner and admitted to himself, if no one else, that he had a problem. I'm angry with him, because he's not here, because his death was senseless, because if he had sought help sooner, if he had admitted to himself that he needed that help sooner, he'd still be with us. I can forgive him for using pain pills. I need them myself and deal with chronic pain on a daily basis. I live with a health condition that can kill me at any time. However, I've not used any pain pills in the last 2 years, not since we lost Prince, except for over the counter medication, which really doesn't help, but I have no insurance, therefore no doctor, and I will not turn to the street for pain medication. I can't even get what my doctor calls, "life saving medication" because I can't afford it. I could accept him being dependent upon those medications, because I do understand chronic pain. What I can't accept is that he cared more about his image and his privacy, than he did in seeking out the help he needed for his pain and his dependency. That is what I am angry with him about. I'm not angry that he was using the pain pills, I'm angry that he thought it was a big enough deal that he had to have them, that he wouldn't get help, until it was too late.

Benni - What about Medicaid? In my state you can make a certain amount of money and still be eligible. Then you have at least a yearly check up without a copay.

The company I work for is actually paid by Medicaid and I had thought about it. However, I fall in that grey area. I earn too much to qualify for Medicaid, and make too little to be able to purchase private insurance. There are a lot of people in the same situation, unfortunately. Obamacare was great for what it did, but there were a lot of things that I disliked about it.

As the story unfolds, and more information becomes available, I feel great compassion for Prince. I have never deified him, but I also did not realized how desperately human he was. He lived a life of contrasts, like all of us I suppose, but his were just incredible amplified. I think now that his clean living was an attempt to compensate for the other things he was doing that he knew were harmful. He embraced religion, but couldn't really live the life. He was human but could not show that to the world. We never really knew the man, but we knew the image. He has become more fascinating to me, but I do wish that it had a happier ending.

Thizz said:

The most embarrassing part of this thread is realizing that this forum is populated mostly by people who never grew out of childish mindsets

what an awful comment..typical of the reason why I left here years ago. How can you dismiss the vast majority on here who have articulated their feelings beautifully. Would suggest the comment says more about you than them?

Rebeljuice said:

bonatoc said:

You've been nailed, apparently.
Hit a self-projecting nerve?

At least your sentence structure is short and somewhat decipherable this time. Pointless nonetheless.

At least it's not looking back in anger.

I guess I'm very surprised to see such a slow healing process among others.
I was pissed off a while ago.

If thinking Prince was an autist helps, well OK.
If thinking Prince was a lonely sad little man à la Reelz, go nuts.
There's no limit to the imagination.
But it would be cool to put Prince in his right place, among us.

Talent doesn't necessarily fall into a nutcase or an impeached or an ill person.
That's precisely what makes him fascinating.

My perception of him has changed, it's more grounded.
It's better when you stop the self-projection.
Either you don't do it sincerely,
or you do it with all your being and you'll feel pretty small
when you'll compare your existence to his.
It's pointless. It's harmful.

That's just my point of view.
Also pointless, but making a point nonetheless, C?

[Edited 4/26/18 7:10am]

Seeing the pictures and all it hit home how human he was. Still the mystery surrounds his whole being as only the people around him can really speak about his experiences and career...songs still rattled in mystery and awe. We can clearly see he knew something was wrong though and it is hard to know how in the hell he got in touch with fetanyl accidentally. I think this made me feel more connected to him and seeing how humbly he lived at Paisley at least hits home.