Weird that Prince was so slapshod in the preservation and cataloging of his legendary recordings...letting them collect dust upon random shelves and within heaps in cardboard boxes (and leaving no living will) but at the same time being so incredibly exhaustively obsessive and exacting regarding his relationships with various music labels...

What a marvelous and strange person this genius was...

soladeo1 said:

Weird that Prince was so slapshod in the preservation and cataloging of his legendary recordings...letting them collect dust upon random shelves and within heaps in cardboard boxes (and leaving no living will) but at the same time being so incredibly exhaustively obsessive and exacting regarding his relationships with various music labels... What a marvelous and strange person this genius was...

He was exacting and methodical in his catalog and legal rights while he was HERE. He probably figured someone else would figure it out after he was gone. I imagine that might've actually been liberating for him!

As for the Vault, I don't think he ever intended on releasing those songs in their exact "as-is" condition. I think they were recorded as audio "sketches", a way to capture that moment of inspiration intact, to be recreated or re-recorded at a later time.

Se7en said:

Good points. Prince hated all things that smacked of nostalgia and not moving forward.

jdcxc said:

Se7en said:

He was exacting and methodical in his catalog and legal rights while he was HERE. He probably figured someone else would figure it out after he was gone. I imagine that might've actually been liberating for him!

As for the Vault, I don't think he ever intended on releasing those songs in their exact "as-is" condition. I think they were recorded as audio "sketches", a way to capture that moment of inspiration intact, to be recreated or re-recorded at a later time.

Good points. Prince hated all things that smacked of nostalgia and not moving forward.

So why record everything? People go through taking photographs and recording things for the very purpose of remembering.

.
Not to mention, when he talks of other artists it is in the direct vein of nostalgia. Of how things were (better). -movies, music, times.

.

When he had Sheila E on the George Lopez show and they did the 'band' drumming piece (ie Sign of the Times) that was looking back. There are many things Prince did throught his career that reflected he 'looked back' often. All those symbols he and the band wore during 1987/88 he pulled from his life 1977/78.

.

And songs like Reflections is nostalgia.

.

When he had his wake up calls in 2015 Prince really started reaching out to people he knew from the 80s especially whether or not they continued to be friends. When Kim died in December of 2015 you heard more of it, when he started the Piano & Microphone tour, it was all about nostalgia and appreciation. Deciding to write a memoir is about nostalgia. Vanity passes away ...

.
The sad part of it, if Prince really felt like that, then when things aren't going so good as we get older we kinda give up. I remember reading his answer to why at that stage(AoA) did he decide to get a 'producer' he said 'well when things don't seem to be working...' I really cannot listen to AoA, it made me sad. I remember my initial feeling and reaction after listening was sadness. I said to myself 'Prince is not here, he's gone'.

.

It definately is a great thing to always move forward. But when you have a balanced way of looking at life, you know you don't have the whole world ahead of you at a certain age. You know it is going to end, whether you are ready or not. Standing still and smelling the flower/looking a the sunrise etc Good memories and nostalgia are a buffer against the darkness and uncertainty of the future. A solid hope that when things are not so good, they can get better. Especially as we get older and pass the 50 mark. Some 'get it' earlier.

OldFriends4Sale said:

jdcxc said:

Se7en said: Good points. Prince hated all things that smacked of nostalgia and not moving forward.

So why record everything? People go through taking photographs and recording things for the very purpose of remembering.

.
Not to mention, when he talks of other artists it is in the direct vein of nostalgia. Of how things were (better). -movies, music, times.

.

When he had Sheila E on the George Lopez show and they did the 'band' drumming piece (ie Sign of the Times) that was looking back. There are many things Prince did throught his career that reflected he 'looked back' often. All those symbols he and the band wore during 1987/88 he pulled from his life 1977/78.

.

And songs like Reflections is nostalgia.

.

When he had his wake up calls in 2015 Prince really started reaching out to people he knew from the 80s especially whether or not they continued to be friends. When Kim died in December of 2015 you heard more of it, when he started the Piano & Microphone tour, it was all about nostalgia and appreciation. Deciding to write a memoir is about nostalgia. Vanity passes away ...

.
The sad part of it, if Prince really felt like that, then when things aren't going so good as we get older we kinda give up. I remember reading his answer to why at that stage(AoA) did he decide to get a 'producer' he said 'well when things don't seem to be working...' I really cannot listen to AoA, it made me sad. I remember my initial feeling and reaction after listening was sadness. I said to myself 'Prince is not here, he's gone'.

.

It definately is a great thing to always move forward. But when you have a balanced way of looking at life, you know you don't have the whole world ahead of you at a certain age. You know it is going to end, whether you are ready or not. Standing still and smelling the flower/looking a the sunrise etc Good memories and nostalgia are a buffer against the darkness and uncertainty of the future. A solid hope that when things are not so good, they can get better. Especially as we get older and pass the 50 mark. Some 'get it' earlier.

Did Prince really say those actual words about using a producer on AOA?

I remember also having a strange feeling after hearing AOA. It's not that I didn't enjoy it, or that I think it's a bad album per se, it just felt different somehow in a way that is very hard to articulate into words. In many respects, it makes sense as his final proper album, almost like an introduction to the next phase of his career, where other people are going to be interpreting and compiling his music for us. The magic is there, but Prince's final touch is not, and that makes a huge difference.

[Edited 4/23/18 5:50am]

MattyJam said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

So why record everything? People go through taking photographs and recording things for the very purpose of remembering.

.
Not to mention, when he talks of other artists it is in the direct vein of nostalgia. Of how things were (better). -movies, music, times.

.

When he had Sheila E on the George Lopez show and they did the 'band' drumming piece (ie Sign of the Times) that was looking back. There are many things Prince did throught his career that reflected he 'looked back' often. All those symbols he and the band wore during 1987/88 he pulled from his life 1977/78.

.

And songs like Reflections is nostalgia.

.

When he had his wake up calls in 2015 Prince really started reaching out to people he knew from the 80s especially whether or not they continued to be friends. When Kim died in December of 2015 you heard more of it, when he started the Piano & Microphone tour, it was all about nostalgia and appreciation. Deciding to write a memoir is about nostalgia. Vanity passes away ...

.
The sad part of it, if Prince really felt like that, then when things aren't going so good as we get older we kinda give up. I remember reading his answer to why at that stage(AoA) did he decide to get a 'producer' he said 'well when things don't seem to be working...' I really cannot listen to AoA, it made me sad. I remember my initial feeling and reaction after listening was sadness. I said to myself 'Prince is not here, he's gone'.

.

It definately is a great thing to always move forward. But when you have a balanced way of looking at life, you know you don't have the whole world ahead of you at a certain age. You know it is going to end, whether you are ready or not. Standing still and smelling the flower/looking a the sunrise etc Good memories and nostalgia are a buffer against the darkness and uncertainty of the future. A solid hope that when things are not so good, they can get better. Especially as we get older and pass the 50 mark. Some 'get it' earlier.

Did Prince really say those actual words about using a producer on AOA?

I remember also having a strange feeling after hearing AOA. It's not that I didn't enjoy it, or that I think it's a bad album per se, it just felt different somehow in a way that is very hard to articulate into words. In many respects, it makes sense as his final proper album, almost like an introduction to the next phase of his career, where other people are going to be interpreting and compiling his music for us. The magic is there, but Prince's final touch is not, and that makes a huge difference.

[Edited 4/23/18 5:50am]

Yes, I was shocked to hear it, especially after having my reaction to listening to it.

OldFriends4Sale said:

MattyJam said:

Did Prince really say those actual words about using a producer on AOA?

I remember also having a strange feeling after hearing AOA. It's not that I didn't enjoy it, or that I think it's a bad album per se, it just felt different somehow in a way that is very hard to articulate into words. In many respects, it makes sense as his final proper album, almost like an introduction to the next phase of his career, where other people are going to be interpreting and compiling his music for us. The magic is there, but Prince's final touch is not, and that makes a huge difference.

[Edited 4/23/18 5:50am]

Yes, I was shocked to hear it, especially after having my reaction to listening to it.

Where was that interview, OF4S, where he said the "things not working" quote?

.

I do wonder what he was feeling in the last few years. It seemed so odd that he would bring another producer in, and there was that "lost" Rolling Stone interview from 2014 where he talks about not recording as much music as he used to, and only talked about playing live in the context of having payroll bills to pay. Sounded like he was falling out of love with music.

.

On the other hand, watching that Channel 4 documentary, his final year seemed as dynamic and packed as ever...

.

Also - although Prince often seemed at pains to give the impression he was always moving forward, his later albums were full of nostalgic throwbacks - the covers on "Emancipation", "Musicology" (the track)

Prince might have been slowing down a bit in his last few years...but it's relative, right?

He was still recording a lot of music and playing quite a few live shows all over the world... Any other artist of his age was probably content to work 1/2 less and still consider it exhausting.

His last year was obviously one of not insiginificant health issues...but he was also recording new music...and his P&M concerts were widely hailed as masterpeices in the press... He also had female compansionship and a tight circle of longtime loyal friends...

Robbajobba said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes, I was shocked to hear it, especially after having my reaction to listening to it.

Where was that interview, OF4S, where he said the "things not working" quote?

.

I do wonder what he was feeling in the last few years. It seemed so odd that he would bring another producer in, and there was that "lost" Rolling Stone interview from 2014 where he talks about not recording as much music as he used to, and only talked about playing live in the context of having payroll bills to pay. Sounded like he was falling out of love with music.

.

On the other hand, watching that Channel 4 documentary, his final year seemed as dynamic and packed as ever...

.

Also - although Prince often seemed at pains to give the impression he was always moving forward, his later albums were full of nostalgic throwbacks - the covers on "Emancipation", "Musicology" (the track)

Give me a bit of time, to locate it. I think I posted it during the year the album was released.

soladeo1 said:

Prince might have been slowing down a bit in his last few years...but it's relative, right?

He was still recording a lot of music and playing quite a few live shows all over the world... Any other artist of his age was probably content to work 1/2 less and still consider it exhausting.

His last year was obviously one of not insiginificant health issues...but he was also recording new music...and his P&M concerts were widely hailed as masterpeices in the press... He also had female compansionship and a tight circle of longtime loyal friends...

There are many periods in Prince's life where I wish he would take a little more time for himself.

I was glad he took that 2+yr period that lead up to releasing AoA, but not glad with the final product.

I wish he would have taken up with Morris Day/the Time like Morris said in 2013/14 and done some stuff. I wish during the Welcome 2 period he let the Time open for him, and did some music with the Family. etc etc and another group of past musicians

OldFriends4Sale said:

Robbajobba said:

Where was that interview, OF4S, where he said the "things not working" quote?

.

I do wonder what he was feeling in the last few years. It seemed so odd that he would bring another producer in, and there was that "lost" Rolling Stone interview from 2014 where he talks about not recording as much music as he used to, and only talked about playing live in the context of having payroll bills to pay. Sounded like he was falling out of love with music.

.

On the other hand, watching that Channel 4 documentary, his final year seemed as dynamic and packed as ever...

.

Also - although Prince often seemed at pains to give the impression he was always moving forward, his later albums were full of nostalgic throwbacks - the covers on "Emancipation", "Musicology" (the track)

Give me a bit of time, to locate it. I think I posted it during the year the album was released.

I think that was maybe in Rolling Stone or the Guardian?

OldFriends4Sale said:

The sad part of it, if Prince really felt like that, then when things aren't going so good as we get older we kinda give up. I remember reading his answer to why at that stage(AoA) did he decide to get a 'producer' he said 'well when things don't seem to be working...' I really cannot listen to AoA, it made me sad. I remember my initial feeling and reaction after listening was sadness. I said to myself 'Prince is not here, he's gone'.

.

It definately is a great thing to always move forward. But when you have a balanced way of looking at life, you know you don't have the whole world ahead of you at a certain age. You know it is going to end, whether you are ready or not. Standing still and smelling the flower/looking a the sunrise etc Good memories and nostalgia are a buffer against the darkness and uncertainty of the future. A solid hope that when things are not so good, they can get better. Especially as we get older and pass the 50 mark. Some 'get it' earlier.

I remember him saying stuff at PP at the 3 day dance party over labor day weekend. It did sound like Prince was semiretirement. He said stuff like Josh he taught him to make music that sounds like Prince and "wasn't that interesting...hmmm" and Donna he taught her to play guitar just like him. He said he did little work on HNR1 it was Josh and "Future was in good hands" it didn't seem right. It did sound like though FREEURSELF and that project was Prince coming back. The lyrics were written out and where Prince sat and they played an early mix of FREEURSELF looking back goosebumps.

leecaldon said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Give me a bit of time, to locate it. I think I posted it during the year the album was released.

I think that was maybe in Rolling Stone or the Guardian?

OK thanks - I'll look for it

OldFriends4Sale - what is it you disliked about AOA?

MattyJam said:

OldFriends4Sale - what is it you disliked about AOA?

It isn't that I dislike it, there are some good songs on there, but it feels like it is missing Prince's essence. Like I said before after listening to it in my car on a road trip, I got a bit teary/sad...I didn't feel Prince on that one.

OldFriends4Sale said:

MattyJam said:

OldFriends4Sale - what is it you disliked about AOA?

It isn't that I dislike it, there are some good songs on there, but it feels like it is missing Prince's essence. Like I said before after listening to it in my car on a road trip, I got a bit teary/sad...I didn't feel Prince on that one.

Yeah, I get that. I always enjoy reading your posts OldFriends4Sale.

Robbajobba said:

.

Also - although Prince often seemed at pains to give the impression he was always moving forward, his later albums were full of nostalgic throwbacks - the covers on "Emancipation", "Musicology" (the track)

And there were old songs on his last 2 albums too. 1000 Hugs and Kisses and Xtraloveable. Prince regularly looked back.

TheEnglishGent said:

Robbajobba said:

.

Also - although Prince often seemed at pains to give the impression he was always moving forward, his later albums were full of nostalgic throwbacks - the covers on "Emancipation", "Musicology" (the track)

And there were old songs on his last 2 albums too. 1000 Hugs and Kisses and Xtraloveable. Prince regularly looked back.

to me extraloveable is a real good example of how hard it would have been to have a hit in this era, there was a song written in his prime that was up to standard and it never made it close to radio. I wonder if the lack of making hits annoyed him any. we know when he was young it didn't matter but so much but i'm sure he gave his all for a song to be a hit many times in the last twenty years and it never happened. doesn't mean much, and i'm sure he knew that, but had to be frustrating for a guy who could make hits in his sleep.

PeteSilas said:

TheEnglishGent said:

And there were old songs on his last 2 albums too. 1000 Hugs and Kisses and Xtraloveable. Prince regularly looked back.

to me extraloveable is a real good example of how hard it would have been to have a hit in this era, there was a song written in his prime that was up to standard and it never made it close to radio. I wonder if the lack of making hits annoyed him any. we know when he was young it didn't matter but so much but i'm sure he gave his all for a song to be a hit many times in the last twenty years and it never happened. doesn't mean much, and i'm sure he knew that, but had to be frustrating for a guy who could make hits in his sleep.

Can you really have a hit today without paying for radio air time etc?

TheEnglishGent said:

PeteSilas said:

to me extraloveable is a real good example of how hard it would have been to have a hit in this era, there was a song written in his prime that was up to standard and it never made it close to radio. I wonder if the lack of making hits annoyed him any. we know when he was young it didn't matter but so much but i'm sure he gave his all for a song to be a hit many times in the last twenty years and it never happened. doesn't mean much, and i'm sure he knew that, but had to be frustrating for a guy who could make hits in his sleep.

Can you really have a hit today without paying for radio air time etc?

i don't know, payola if it goes on, prince could have afforded it. I don't know, i'm a musician but the last time i asked a dj to play my stuff for pay he wrote back that he wasn't stupid enough to answer that in the affirmative. I wrote "fuck you, there's no easy way to ask someone to take payola" that's like walking up to a pretty girl and asking if you can screw her right off the bat, it ain't going to well.

PeteSilas said:

TheEnglishGent said:

And there were old songs on his last 2 albums too. 1000 Hugs and Kisses and Xtraloveable. Prince regularly looked back.

to me extraloveable is a real good example of how hard it would have been to have a hit in this era, there was a song written in his prime that was up to standard and it never made it close to radio. I wonder if the lack of making hits annoyed him any. we know when he was young it didn't matter but so much but i'm sure he gave his all for a song to be a hit many times in the last twenty years and it never happened. doesn't mean much, and i'm sure he knew that, but had to be frustrating for a guy who could make hits in his sleep.

But Extraloveable (reloaded) was hardly even close to Extralovable(1982)

Se7en said:

Agree

PeteSilas said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Can you really have a hit today without paying for radio air time etc?

i don't know, payola if it goes on, prince could have afforded it. I don't know, i'm a musician but the last time i asked a dj to play my stuff for pay he wrote back that he wasn't stupid enough to answer that in the affirmative. I wrote "fuck you, there's no easy way to ask someone to take payola" that's like walking up to a pretty girl and asking if you can screw her right off the bat, it ain't going to well.

He could certainly afford it, which would seem to imply that he didn't care too much about having chart success. Isn't the big money in concerts these days anyway?

Probably saw having a vault as sufficient storage for his creative journey although a more technical minded person may of saw a more pristine solution

Thizz said:

Probably saw having a vault as sufficient storage for his creative journey although a more technical minded person may of saw a more pristine solution

From what I understand it was Susan Rogers that really got the organization and cataloguing of the Vault started and done by the time she left

OldFriends4Sale said:

That really is a gift to the world. She seemed like she was good for him

Thizz said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

From what I understand it was Susan Rogers that really got the organization and cataloguing of the Vault started and done by the time she left

That really is a gift to the world. She seemed like she was good for him

P mentioned that he was afraid of her after she said she was gonna make it a mission to get the vaults music out. had to be that pill induced paranoia.

TheEnglishGent said:

PeteSilas said:

i don't know, payola if it goes on, prince could have afforded it. I don't know, i'm a musician but the last time i asked a dj to play my stuff for pay he wrote back that he wasn't stupid enough to answer that in the affirmative. I wrote "fuck you, there's no easy way to ask someone to take payola" that's like walking up to a pretty girl and asking if you can screw her right off the bat, it ain't going to well.

He could certainly afford it, which would seem to imply that he didn't care too much about having chart success. Isn't the big money in concerts these days anyway?

it is but money is one thing, ego, power and relevance is another. I just wonder if it bothered him.

Se7en said:

soladeo1 said:

Weird that Prince was so slapshod in the preservation and cataloging of his legendary recordings...letting them collect dust upon random shelves and within heaps in cardboard boxes (and leaving no living will) but at the same time being so incredibly exhaustively obsessive and exacting regarding his relationships with various music labels... What a marvelous and strange person this genius was...

He was exacting and methodical in his catalog and legal rights while he was HERE. He probably figured someone else would figure it out after he was gone. I imagine that might've actually been liberating for him!

As for the Vault, I don't think he ever intended on releasing those songs in their exact "as-is" condition. I think they were recorded as audio "sketches", a way to capture that moment of inspiration intact, to be recreated or re-recorded at a later time.

Yep. He had legit and fair criticisms of some of the stuff, that's now being released. NC2U, he was very specific that the Revolution ver was flat compared to the two versions that came after, and that's why he did a punchier version with Rosie instead of releasing the original.