OldFriends4Sale said:

cloveringold85 said:

No, Prince did not care for Madonna at all. He didn't go for blondes.

Italian and not a natural blond, especially during that time, she clearly just had highlights. But was mostly dark

And he was attracted to Marylin Monroe (not natural) and had Jill Jones dye her hair blonde as a result

And not only her. He had tried to turn Denise into a second Marilyn but she refused to. She had her own mind and didn't do everything he wanted.

He even dyed his own hair blonde.

I like that he took the chance to make peace with Madonna before his passing. Their energies just clashed but they were both mature enough to rise above it. And I'd still liked to have seen the original "Graffiti Bridge" with her in it.

CatB said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Italian and not a natural blond, especially during that time, she clearly just had highlights. But was mostly dark

And he was attracted to Marylin Monroe (not natural) and had Jill Jones dye her hair blonde as a result

And not only her. He had tried to turn Denise into a second Marilyn but she refused to. She had her own mind and didn't do everything he wanted.

He even dyed his own hair blonde.

I like that he took the chance to make peace with Madonna before his passing. Their energies just clashed but they were both mature enough to rise above it. And I'd still liked to have seen the original "Graffiti Bridge" with her in it.

Ah I didn't know he wanted to get Vanity to go blonde

Cat talked about the original Graffiti Bridge too, she loved watching those two and their energies

That early version is the one I wish we had an opportunity to see as well

I hope not, she looks like she smelled like wet cigarettes and Summer's Eve

QueenofPurplePalace said:

I hope not, she looks like she smelled like wet cigarettes and Summer's Eve

She is a bit deluded here when she said they were equals talent-wise but they were equals powerwise...That i agree with.

Funny the way it is described when she went to see Prince perform in Paisley Park a few years ago. She seemed shocked at how good he was or had become or had remained..

jcurley said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I need to listen to these songs now

credited to The Powers That Be).

Outtakes from Prince and Madonna’s session for “Like a Prayer” appear on the Prayers Remixed EP. The dub beats version features samples from a then unreleased Prince track titled “Bob George” from his cancelled Black Album.

Interviewer: You and Prince wrote "Love Song" together, which is a wonderful
song. Did you and he work together or did he give you a track?

Madonna: No, he didn't give me a track. We sat down and just started fooling
around. We had a lot of fun. What happened is that he played the drums and I
played the synthesizer and we came up with the original melody line; I just,
off the top of my head, started singing lyrics into the microphone. And then he
overdubbed some guitar stuff and made a loop of it and sent it to me, and then
I just started adding sections to it and singing parts to it. And then I sent
it back to him, and he'd sing a part to it and add another instrument and send
it back to me...it was like this sentence that turned into a paragraph that
turned into a little miniseries. So it was great. It was a completely different
way to work. And because of our schedules and everything, and he was in
Minnesota and he likes to work there and I like to work here. So we kind of
sent it back and forth. He's great. He's a real interesting...unique talent.

Interviewer: And it was an easy connection from the beginning for the two of
you?

Madonna: Yeah, it was. We started out being real admirers of each other's work.
And, you know, we're already successful so we didn't have to prove anything to
each other. We were on the same level. And I don't think he's had that same
opportunity with other people that he's worked with. Because generally he tends
to dominate everything.

Interviewer: "Act of Contrition," the closing track of Like a Prayer, has
backwards masking and other mysterious elements. Did he have anything to do
with that one as well? The credits only say, "Produced by the powers that be."

Madonna: Yeah, he did. He played guitar on it. He also played guitar on "Keep
it Together."

Interviewer: I noticed on "Act of Contrition" that you have the choir from
"Like a Prayer" reversed on that.

Madonna: Yeah, we turned the tape and played everything backwards.

God no one could ever accuse Madonna of being deluded surely?!!

Where did she say they were equals talent wise?

purplerabbithole said:

She is a bit deluded here when she said they were equals talent-wise but they were equals powerwise...That i agree with.

Funny the way it is described when she went to see Prince perform in Paisley Park a few years ago. She seemed shocked at how good he was or had become or had remained..

jcurley said:

OldFriends4Sale said: God no one could ever accuse Madonna of being deluded surely?!!

OldFriends4Sale said:

QueenofPurplePalace said:

I hope not, she looks like she smelled like wet cigarettes and Summer's Eve

Prince looks amazing in this pic.I remember the day this pic was originally posted on the org. thanks for posting

cloveringold85 said:

Susu1976 said:

cloveringold85 said:

No, Prince did not care for Madonna at all. He didn't go for blondes.

I can't say whether he got with Madonna or not but it doesn't take much reaching to conclude that he most likely did. However, your claim him not going for blondes could not be MORE wrong... Now, THAT I do know for a fact.

Yeah, same here. Perhaps Devin Devasquez is partially to blame for some people believing that he didn't go for blondes. He supposedly said to her in a conversation about Madonna that he didn't like blondes, as blondes "are calculating". This made me chuckle as I doubt he said this, knowing full well Madonna is no blonde, and also because all the women so far who have been cashing in on him are dark-haired... and the print version of Devasquez' book is 40 bucks, so she's got to know about "calculating" ... lol

[Edited 2/18/18 6:49am]

What do you think she is talking about right here? Not to get into semantics, but the first line in juxtaposition to the later lines indicates (IMO) a belief in not just equal status and success but also equal ability. I am not the only on here who stated that she is a bit 'deluded' here. Maybe, madonna was not intending to indicate that..but Madonna has never lacked confidence so I doubt it.

Madonna: Yeah, it was. We started out being real admirers of each other's work.
And, you know, we're already successful so we didn't have to prove anything to
each other. We were on the same level. And I don't think he's had that same
opportunity with other people that he's worked with. Because generally he tends
to dominate everything.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Where did she say they were equals talent wise?

purplerabbithole said:

She is a bit deluded here when she said they were equals talent-wise but they were equals powerwise...That i agree with.

Funny the way it is described when she went to see Prince perform in Paisley Park a few years ago. She seemed shocked at how good he was or had become or had remained..

dance4me3121 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Prince looks amazing in this pic.I remember the day this pic was originally posted on the org. thanks for posting

Indeed, he looks beautiful and that yellow suit it's wonderful.

She said nothing about talent. And throught her lifetime she has always praised people who had talent like Prince. To say they were equals talent wise she would have had to be a 'guitarist' or a 'piano player'.
.
It is clear she is talking about super star status. Which they were. Which is why Prince Michael Jackson Madonna & Bruce were always linked together from the 80s.

.

'real admireres of each other's work' how does that translate 'talent'? Prince obviously was a real admirier of her work.

.

Same level = Super Stars

purplerabbithole said:

What do you think she is talking about right here? Not to get into semantics, but the first line in juxtaposition to the later lines indicates (IMO) a belief in not just equal status and success but also equal ability. I am not the only on here who stated that she is a bit 'deluded' here. Maybe, madonna was not intending to indicate that..but Madonna has never lacked confidence so I doubt it.

Madonna: Yeah, it was. We started out being real admirers of each other's work.
And, you know, we're already successful so we didn't have to prove anything to
each other. We were on the same level. And I don't think he's had that same
opportunity with other people that he's worked with. Because generally he tends
to dominate everything.

OldFriends4Sale said:

She said nothing about talent. And throught her lifetime she has always praised people who had talent like Prince. To say they were equals talent wise she would have had to be a 'guitarist' or a 'piano player'.
.
It is clear she is talking about super star status. Which they were. Which is why Prince Michael Jackson Madonna & Bruce were always linked together from the 80s.

.

'real admireres of each other's work' how does that translate 'talent'? Prince obviously was a real admirier of her work.

.

Same level = Super Stars

purplerabbithole said:

What do you think she is talking about right here? Not to get into semantics, but the first line in juxtaposition to the later lines indicates (IMO) a belief in not just equal status and success but also equal ability. I am not the only on here who stated that she is a bit 'deluded' here. Maybe, madonna was not intending to indicate that..but Madonna has never lacked confidence so I doubt it.

What she means is.....she and Prince were on the "same level" in term of power and superstardom.....as opposed to Prince and his female proteges.where he would control and dominate the proceedings.The recording of "Love Song" wasn't like Prince producing one of his own ladies like Apollonia (lol)...that's what Madonna is saying.

Whatever. In the same interview in which she talks about Prince admiring her work and them being on the same level, she talks about how the song was produced with her playing keyboards and him on drums. That is a description of playing music...not status or power etc. She is saying that she is as powerful as him but I think he is also implying that she is as talented...unlike his proteges who are not . Do you think Madonna thinks of herself as less of a musician than Prince? Please folks. Madonna can be cool but she thinks of herself as an artist worthy as any other one. Madonna is not going to imply that her status and power come from anything less than talent.

SoulAlive said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

She said nothing about talent. And throught her lifetime she has always praised people who had talent like Prince. To say they were equals talent wise she would have had to be a 'guitarist' or a 'piano player'.
.
It is clear she is talking about super star status. Which they were. Which is why Prince Michael Jackson Madonna & Bruce were always linked together from the 80s.

.

'real admireres of each other's work' how does that translate 'talent'? Prince obviously was a real admirier of her work.

.

Same level = Super Stars

What she means is.....she and Prince were on the "same level" in term of power and superstardom.....as opposed to Prince and his female proteges.where he would control and dominate the proceedings.The recording of "Love Song" wasn't like Prince producing one of his own ladies like Apollonia (lol)...that's what Madonna is saying.

[Edited 2/18/18 13:00pm]

Whatitis. And you didn't hightlight that part. You highlight another part to prove she was putting herself on the same level talent wise. Did you not? Of course you did. that is why you didn't say, mmm yeah I read that wrong, you said 'whatever'

.

Yep, but she has never placed herself as some great musician ever

So I strongly doubt her intent was to put herself on the same level of Prince talent wise.

.

When she said:And, you know, we're already successful so we didn't have to prove anything to
each other.

Prince has usually up until that point (and after) only worked with people not on his level, or their time in the spotlight had diminished. One reason he gave for not wanting to work directly with Miles Davis or do the We R the World event. Another reason why he had a hard time on James Browns stage when Michael J had Prince called up.
.

that is what you should have bolded, because it is clear she is talking about Super Stardom

purplerabbithole said:

Whatever. In the same interview in which she talks about Prince admiring her work and them being on the same level, she talks about how the song was produced with her playing keyboards and him on drums. That is a description of playing music...not status or power etc. She is saying that she is as powerful as him but I think he is also implying that she is as talented...unlike his proteges who are not . Do you think Madonna thinks of herself as less of a musician than Prince? Please folks. Madonna can be cool but she thinks of herself as an artist worthy as any other one. Madonna is not going to imply that her status and power come from anything less than talent.

SoulAlive said:

What she means is.....she and Prince were on the "same level" in term of power and superstardom.....as opposed to Prince and his female proteges.where he would control and dominate the proceedings.The recording of "Love Song" wasn't like Prince producing one of his own ladies like Apollonia (lol)...that's what Madonna is saying.

I was a little underwhelmed with Love Song when I first heard it to be honest. Maybe it is one that will grow on me over time. I was expecting something a little more upbeat, funky like from P and Madonna, but I did like Keep it Together though.

I do agree with her when she says she and P are on the same level power wise though. She'd be the first one to admit that she isn't the greatest singer,/musician, but she never tried to be. I always felt they were so much alike in their attitude towards things, such as doing their own thing and having the take it or leave it approach and not being at all afraid and exploring and embracing sexuality that made others so uncomfortable, especially in their early years. I know they had a little beef over the years with one another, but it is cool they mended fences back in 2015 and sweet of her to do that tribute at the AMAs and that outfit she had on was cool also.

You think Prince deliberately sabotaged his own performance on stage with James and MJ because he didn't want to collaborate with folks of equal status???What. Am I misinterpreting what you are saying there. Jill JOnes (who I know can be unreliable) did state that P and her were there to watch a show and completely unprepared. He was given an out of tune guitar that was too big for him and had some wine according to her. He was unprepared..period.

I didn't leave my comment at "whatever". I am jumping all around here but I don't get entirely why collaboration with supposedly 'Important" musicians is so important where PRince is concerned. Good choices were more important in my opinion. But he always made his own choices. PEriod. For better or for worse.

Prince wasn't as much of a team player as others but you are shortchanging how much he has worked or at least performed with other people of high status and even talent. . What quantifies as equals to Prince? In the eighties, in terms of status (and possibly talent to some extent) it was MIchael, Madonna, U2... He recorded with Madonna and performed at least a few times with U2. He even occassionally performed with Sting and Springstein. Was Madonna recording with MJ or U2? Was MJ recording with U2 or Madonna? I don't recall that happening.

What does Prince's ego got to do with what she said. People of equal talent have a lot to prove to one another and often butt heads when they do work together. So, I am not sure how that quote is relevant to what I said or even true in most cases.

We are the World was also not a good song (BTW) and was an example of a lot of celebrity back-patting. Had they let him play guitar apparently he would have participated. Don't we usually have respect for artists when they stick to their own visions and not just go with the times? Prince didn't always make the right decisions but they were his (for better or for worse). In the 90's he struggled. Chasing trends by making them your own is a risky endeavor that doesn't always work and maybe Prince should have given over control a bit at times but I am glad he didn't just bow down to the more popular or young musicians visions. He always had his own vision even when the Revolutions members were 'influencing' him--ultimately it was his choice to take those influences or not.

I never said Madonna wasn't acknowledging that she was of equal success so therefore Prince was unable to mold her like a protege..She did say that and I agree.. I am saying she was implying that they were of equal ability which I do not agree. We can read her comments differently, but the fact that it was reported that she was shocked by his guitar playing in 2015 when she came to Paisley, might indicate she did not understand in the late 80's the full extent of his abilities.

In my opinion (if I am allowed to have it), not many people are on Prince's level in terms of talent. Miles Davis was...but Prince's ego aside, he and Miles' limited collaborations were not that good (IMO).

In terms of just status and popularity, who gives a crap? Jay-Z is more influential and powerful than Prince but what does that have to do with anything. Working with Jay-Z might make Prince more 'relevant' to teenagers but there is more talent in Maceo Parker's pinkie finger than in Jay-z's entire body. Hell, Wendy and Lisa have ten times more talent than Jay-Z or any number of uber powerful musicians. I would not want Prince to collaborate with people just becuase they are just as successful or more so or younger or more hip for the moment. That seems desperate to me. With rap artists, he wasn't choosy/brave enough in terms of who he collaborated with but Prince and rap were a shaky partnership. However, his performing with Kendrick Lamar who prince legitimately respected was a good direction he was at least dabbling in.

He didn't work with James Brown probably partly because James Brown didn't want to work with him. He didn't work with MJ because MJ thought he was better than him (and maybe visa versa) and QJ made him wait in a car and pissed him off.. But, he worked with (at least in performances) Beyonce who has sold more albums and gotten more awards than himself, Amy Winehouse, Santana, and Ceelo... He recorded with incredibly talented people -- some pretty damned famous (Gwen Stefani, Madonna, Eve, Sheryl Crow). He recorded with lesser known but incredibly talented people who are deeply respected (Ani diFranco, Janelle Monae, a number of hip British singers, Esparaza Spalding.) He also performed with the likes of Stevie Wonder (definitely his equal), Foofighters, Santana, Tom Petty, etc. Would it had been cool if he had recorded with Stevie Wonder? Sure. But, maybe the opportunity never presented itself..who knows. But not everything can be attributed to Prince's fragile ego. I know you think P's musical quality took a step decline after he collaborated less with his bandmates, but none of his bandmates were of equal status in the industry..(talent--its debatable, but status--it is not) so status and talent do not necessarily equate. Prince's bands were top notch--how he used them was up to him. . But let's look at Tom Petty -- no one was asking him to take on rap or collaborate in ways that weren't typically tom Pettyish. He wrote the lyrics/melodies and his band did the accompaniment, it never changed. He never let his bandmates write lyrics or melodies..

BTW, here is what Robin Williams said about the song Bad in 87 ("No, Michael, you are not Bad. You are sensitive, you are delicate, but you are not "Bad".) .. not everyone thought it was a good fit for MJ despite its popularity. I don't think it would have been a good fit for Prince either. That is not a missed opportunity that I regret. Even at 12 when that song came out I used to roll my eyes. WIlliams and I were on the same page with that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id5b0PYgvwo

OldFriends4Sale said:

Whatitis. And you didn't hightlight that part. You highlight another part to prove she was putting herself on the same level talent wise. Did you not? Of course you did. that is why you didn't say, mmm yeah I read that wrong, you said 'whatever'

.

Yep, but she has never placed herself as some great musician ever

So I strongly doubt her intent was to put herself on the same level of Prince talent wise.

.

When she said:And, you know, we're already successful so we didn't have to prove anything to
each other.

Prince has usually up until that point (and after) only worked with people not on his level, or their time in the spotlight had diminished. One reason he gave for not wanting to work directly with Miles Davis or do the We R the World event. Another reason why he had a hard time on James Browns stage when Michael J had Prince called up.
.

that is what you should have bolded, because it is clear she is talking about Super Stardom

purplerabbithole said:

Whatever. In the same interview in which she talks about Prince admiring her work and them being on the same level, she talks about how the song was produced with her playing keyboards and him on drums. That is a description of playing music...not status or power etc. She is saying that she is as powerful as him but I think he is also implying that she is as talented...unlike his proteges who are not . Do you think Madonna thinks of herself as less of a musician than Prince? Please folks. Madonna can be cool but she thinks of herself as an artist worthy as any other one. Madonna is not going to imply that her status and power come from anything less than talent.

[Edited 2/19/18 10:21am]

[Edited 2/19/18 10:24am]

Oh Gawd... seriously? You like to make mountains out of molehills don't you? lol

Did I say "Prince deliberately sabotaged his own performance on stage with..."?

No do some reading on what others have said about Prince outside of his element.

Prince in 1982/83 was just getting coming into his own grove at that time. MJ knew what he was doing when he had James call Prince up on stage. Bobby Z was there with Prince as well.

James Brown was one of Prince's idols. Compare Prince on stage with someone like Stevie Wonder in 1998 vs James Brown 1982. Price didn't care for performing with people of a certain stardom.

He even had a little issue with Miles Davis and Prince's band at the 1987 New Years eve show.

Prince talked about himself. Maybe some of it was Prince's own isms. Like thinking meeting and working directly with Clare Fischer wouldbe bad luck.

Sorry that was just 'too much' debating there to read. I'll try to read some more tomorrow. My back hurts.

purplerabbithole said:

You think Prince deliberately sabotaged his own performance on stage with James and MJ because he didn't want to collaborate with folks of equal status???What. Am I misinterpreting what you are saying there. Jill JOnes (who I know can be unreliable) did state that P and her were there to watch a show and completely unprepared. He was given an out of tune guitar that was too big for him and had some wine according to her. He was unprepared..period.

I didn't leave my comment at "whatever". I am jumping all around here but I don't get entirely why collaboration with supposedly 'Important" musicians is so important where PRince is concerned. Good choices were more important in my opinion. But he always made his own choices. PEriod. For better or for worse.

Prince wasn't as much of a team player as others but you are shortchanging how much he has worked or at least performed with other people of high status and even talent. . What quantifies as equals to Prince? In the eighties, in terms of status (and possibly talent to some extent) it was MIchael, Madonna, U2... He recorded with Madonna and performed at least a few times with U2. He even occassionally performed with Sting and Springstein. Was Madonna recording with MJ or U2? Was MJ recording with U2 or Madonna? I don't recall that happening.

What does Prince's ego got to do with what she said. People of equal talent have a lot to prove to one another and often butt heads when they do work together. So, I am not sure how that quote is relevant to what I said or even true in most cases.

We are the World was also not a good song (BTW) and was an example of a lot of celebrity back-patting. Had they let him play guitar apparently he would have participated. Don't we usually have respect for artists when they stick to their own visions and not just go with the times? Prince didn't always make the right decisions but they were his (for better or for worse). In the 90's he struggled. Chasing trends by making them your own is a risky endeavor that doesn't always work and maybe Prince should have given over control a bit at times but I am glad he didn't just bow down to the more popular or young musicians visions. He always had his own vision even when the Revolutions members were 'influencing' him--ultimately it was his choice to take those influences or not.

I never said Madonna wasn't acknowledging that she was of equal success so therefore Prince was unable to mold her like a protege..She did say that and I agree.. I am saying she was implying that they were of equal ability which I do not agree. We can read her comments differently, but the fact that it was reported that she was shocked by his guitar playing in 2015 when she came to Paisley, might indicate she did not understand in the late 80's the full extent of his abilities.

In my opinion (if I am allowed to have it), not many people are on Prince's level in terms of talent. Miles Davis was...but Prince's ego aside, he and Miles' limited collaborations were not that good (IMO).

In terms of just status and popularity, who gives a crap? Jay-Z is more influential and powerful than Prince but what does that have to do with anything. Working with Jay-Z might make Prince more 'relevant' to teenagers but there is more talent in Maceo Parker's pinkie finger than in Jay-z's entire body. Hell, Wendy and Lisa have ten times more talent than Jay-Z or any number of uber powerful musicians. I would not want Prince to collaborate with people just becuase they are just as successful or more so or younger or more hip for the moment. That seems desperate to me. With rap artists, he wasn't choosy/brave enough in terms of who he collaborated with but Prince and rap were a shaky partnership. However, his performing with Kendrick Lamar who prince legitimately respected was a good direction he was at least dabbling in.

He didn't work with James Brown probably partly because James Brown didn't want to work with him. He didn't work with MJ because MJ thought he was better than him (and maybe visa versa) and QJ made him wait in a car and pissed him off.. But, he worked with (at least in performances) Beyonce who has sold more albums and gotten more awards than himself, Amy Winehouse, Santana, and Ceelo... He recorded with incredibly talented people -- some pretty damned famous (Gwen Stefani, Madonna, Eve, Sheryl Crow). He recorded with lesser known but incredibly talented people who are deeply respected (Ani diFranco, Janelle Monae, a number of hip British singers, Esparaza Spalding.) He also performed with the likes of Stevie Wonder (definitely his equal), Foofighters, Santana, Tom Petty, etc. Would it had been cool if he had recorded with Stevie Wonder? Sure. But, maybe the opportunity never presented itself..who knows. But not everything can be attributed to Prince's fragile ego. I know you think P's musical quality took a step decline after he collaborated less with his bandmates, but none of his bandmates were of equal status in the industry..(talent--its debatable, but status--it is not) so status and talent do not necessarily equate. Prince's bands were top notch--how he used them was up to him. . But let's look at Tom Petty -- no one was asking him to take on rap or collaborate in ways that weren't typically tom Pettyish. He wrote the lyrics/melodies and his band did the accompaniment, it never changed. He never let his bandmates write lyrics or melodies..

BTW, here is what Robin Williams said about the song Bad in 87 ("No, Michael, you are not Bad. You are sensitive, you are delicate, but you are not "Bad".) .. not everyone thought it was a good fit for MJ despite its popularity. I don't think it would have been a good fit for Prince either. That is not a missed opportunity that I regret. Even at 12 when that song came out I used to roll my eyes. WIlliams and I were on the same page with that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id5b0PYgvwo

OldFriends4Sale said:

Whatitis. And you didn't hightlight that part. You highlight another part to prove she was putting herself on the same level talent wise. Did you not? Of course you did. that is why you didn't say, mmm yeah I read that wrong, you said 'whatever'

.

Yep, but she has never placed herself as some great musician ever

So I strongly doubt her intent was to put herself on the same level of Prince talent wise.

.

When she said:And, you know, we're already successful so we didn't have to prove anything to
each other.

Prince has usually up until that point (and after) only worked with people not on his level, or their time in the spotlight had diminished. One reason he gave for not wanting to work directly with Miles Davis or do the We R the World event. Another reason why he had a hard time on James Browns stage when Michael J had Prince called up.
.

that is what you should have bolded, because it is clear she is talking about Super Stardom

[Edited 2/19/18 10:21am]

[Edited 2/19/18 10:24am]

Missmusicluver72 said:

I was a little underwhelmed with Love Song when I first heard it to be honest. Maybe it is one that will grow on me over time. I was expecting something a little more upbeat, funky like from P and Madonna, but I did like Keep it Together though.

I do agree with her when she says she and P are on the same level power wise though. She'd be the first one to admit that she isn't the greatest singer,/musician, but she never tried to be. I always felt they were so much alike in their attitude towards things, such as doing their own thing and having the take it or leave it approach and not being at all afraid and exploring and embracing sexuality that made others so uncomfortable, especially in their early years. I know they had a little beef over the years with one another, but it is cool they mended fences back in 2015 and sweet of her to do that tribute at the AMAs and that outfit she had on was cool also.

I think they were cool long before 2015, that photo of them embracing was 2007

What is Prince's element?

I am sure if someone handed him a guitar that wasn't too big and was actually in tune he would have been fine in most settings even in 82 and 83. His Head solo from around 80/81 after the sexual part convinced me that he was a damn fine guitarist even then.

In 82 and 83, he still had something to offer and could have done just fine playing a decent little guitar solo.. Jeez, MIchael didn't do anything that earthshattering in that clip. You know more than I do about how much Prince accomplished by 82/83. . No, he wasn't a great dancer yet, but he was no slouch in other departments. . He seemed to be able to improvize in most cases.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Oh Gawd... seriously? You like to make mountains out of molehills don't you? lol

Did I say "Prince deliberately sabotaged his own performance on stage with..."?

No do some reading on what others have said about Prince outside of his element.

Prince in 1982/83 was just getting coming into his own grove at that time. MJ knew what he was doing when he had James call Prince up on stage. Bobby Z was there with Prince as well.

James Brown was one of Prince's idols. Compare Prince on stage with someone like Stevie Wonder in 1998 vs James Brown 1982. Price didn't care for performing with people of a certain stardom.

He even had a little issue with Miles Davis and Prince's band at the 1987 New Years eve show.

Prince talked about himself. Maybe some of it was Prince's own isms. Like thinking meeting and working directly with Clare Fischer wouldbe bad luck.

Sorry that was just 'too much' debating there to read. I'll try to read some more tomorrow. My back hurts.

purplerabbithole said:

You think Prince deliberately sabotaged his own performance on stage with James and MJ because he didn't want to collaborate with folks of equal status???What. Am I misinterpreting what you are saying there. Jill JOnes (who I know can be unreliable) did state that P and her were there to watch a show and completely unprepared. He was given an out of tune guitar that was too big for him and had some wine according to her. He was unprepared..period.

I didn't leave my comment at "whatever". I am jumping all around here but I don't get entirely why collaboration with supposedly 'Important" musicians is so important where PRince is concerned. Good choices were more important in my opinion. But he always made his own choices. PEriod. For better or for worse.

Prince wasn't as much of a team player as others but you are shortchanging how much he has worked or at least performed with other people of high status and even talent. . What quantifies as equals to Prince? In the eighties, in terms of status (and possibly talent to some extent) it was MIchael, Madonna, U2... He recorded with Madonna and performed at least a few times with U2. He even occassionally performed with Sting and Springstein. Was Madonna recording with MJ or U2? Was MJ recording with U2 or Madonna? I don't recall that happening.

What does Prince's ego got to do with what she said. People of equal talent have a lot to prove to one another and often butt heads when they do work together. So, I am not sure how that quote is relevant to what I said or even true in most cases.

We are the World was also not a good song (BTW) and was an example of a lot of celebrity back-patting. Had they let him play guitar apparently he would have participated. Don't we usually have respect for artists when they stick to their own visions and not just go with the times? Prince didn't always make the right decisions but they were his (for better or for worse). In the 90's he struggled. Chasing trends by making them your own is a risky endeavor that doesn't always work and maybe Prince should have given over control a bit at times but I am glad he didn't just bow down to the more popular or young musicians visions. He always had his own vision even when the Revolutions members were 'influencing' him--ultimately it was his choice to take those influences or not.

I never said Madonna wasn't acknowledging that she was of equal success so therefore Prince was unable to mold her like a protege..She did say that and I agree.. I am saying she was implying that they were of equal ability which I do not agree. We can read her comments differently, but the fact that it was reported that she was shocked by his guitar playing in 2015 when she came to Paisley, might indicate she did not understand in the late 80's the full extent of his abilities.

In my opinion (if I am allowed to have it), not many people are on Prince's level in terms of talent. Miles Davis was...but Prince's ego aside, he and Miles' limited collaborations were not that good (IMO).

In terms of just status and popularity, who gives a crap? Jay-Z is more influential and powerful than Prince but what does that have to do with anything. Working with Jay-Z might make Prince more 'relevant' to teenagers but there is more talent in Maceo Parker's pinkie finger than in Jay-z's entire body. Hell, Wendy and Lisa have ten times more talent than Jay-Z or any number of uber powerful musicians. I would not want Prince to collaborate with people just becuase they are just as successful or more so or younger or more hip for the moment. That seems desperate to me. With rap artists, he wasn't choosy/brave enough in terms of who he collaborated with but Prince and rap were a shaky partnership. However, his performing with Kendrick Lamar who prince legitimately respected was a good direction he was at least dabbling in.

He didn't work with James Brown probably partly because James Brown didn't want to work with him. He didn't work with MJ because MJ thought he was better than him (and maybe visa versa) and QJ made him wait in a car and pissed him off.. But, he worked with (at least in performances) Beyonce who has sold more albums and gotten more awards than himself, Amy Winehouse, Santana, and Ceelo... He recorded with incredibly talented people -- some pretty damned famous (Gwen Stefani, Madonna, Eve, Sheryl Crow). He recorded with lesser known but incredibly talented people who are deeply respected (Ani diFranco, Janelle Monae, a number of hip British singers, Esparaza Spalding.) He also performed with the likes of Stevie Wonder (definitely his equal), Foofighters, Santana, Tom Petty, etc. Would it had been cool if he had recorded with Stevie Wonder? Sure. But, maybe the opportunity never presented itself..who knows. But not everything can be attributed to Prince's fragile ego. I know you think P's musical quality took a step decline after he collaborated less with his bandmates, but none of his bandmates were of equal status in the industry..(talent--its debatable, but status--it is not) so status and talent do not necessarily equate. Prince's bands were top notch--how he used them was up to him. . But let's look at Tom Petty -- no one was asking him to take on rap or collaborate in ways that weren't typically tom Pettyish. He wrote the lyrics/melodies and his band did the accompaniment, it never changed. He never let his bandmates write lyrics or melodies..

BTW, here is what Robin Williams said about the song Bad in 87 ("No, Michael, you are not Bad. You are sensitive, you are delicate, but you are not "Bad".) .. not everyone thought it was a good fit for MJ despite its popularity. I don't think it would have been a good fit for Prince either. That is not a missed opportunity that I regret. Even at 12 when that song came out I used to roll my eyes. WIlliams and I were on the same page with that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id5b0PYgvwo

[Edited 2/19/18 10:21am]

[Edited 2/19/18 10:24am]

[Edited 2/19/18 18:38pm]

[Edited 2/19/18 18:44pm]

[Edited 2/19/18 18:47pm]

edit

[Edited 2/20/18 1:03am]

Missmusicluver72 said:

I was a little underwhelmed with Love Song when I first heard it to be honest. Maybe it is one that will grow on me over time. I was expecting something a little more upbeat, funky like from P and Madonna, but I did like Keep it Together though.

I do agree with her when she says she and P are on the same level power wise though. She'd be the first one to admit that she isn't the greatest singer,/musician, but she never tried to be. I always felt they were so much alike in their attitude towards things, such as doing their own thing and having the take it or leave it approach and not being at all afraid and exploring and embracing sexuality that made others so uncomfortable, especially in their early years. I know they had a little beef over the years with one another, but it is cool they mended fences back in 2015 and sweet of her to do that tribute at the AMAs and that outfit she had on was cool also.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Missmusicluver72 said:

I was a little underwhelmed with Love Song when I first heard it to be honest. Maybe it is one that will grow on me over time. I was expecting something a little more upbeat, funky like from P and Madonna, but I did like Keep it Together though.

I do agree with her when she says she and P are on the same level power wise though. She'd be the first one to admit that she isn't the greatest singer,/musician, but she never tried to be. I always felt they were so much alike in their attitude towards things, such as doing their own thing and having the take it or leave it approach and not being at all afraid and exploring and embracing sexuality that made others so uncomfortable, especially in their early years. I know they had a little beef over the years with one another, but it is cool they mended fences back in 2015 and sweet of her to do that tribute at the AMAs and that outfit she had on was cool also.

I think they were cool long before 2015, that photo of them embracing was 2007

Yeah, I always remember in 2005 when Madonna was promoting Confessions On A Dance Floor and show was on BBC Radio 1. When asked her favourite song to play on the radio, she chose 'When Doves Cry' and talked about working with Prince and how amazing he was. I always got the impression she had nothing but respect and admiration for his talent and work and was pretty much in awe of him like the rest of us.

Did she really? Okay, everyone igomore what i said eariler. I will admit when I am wrong.

Adorecream said:

Yeah about the same chance as Michael Jackson did in early 91.

I think he had a way better chance than MJ for various reasons!

Prince's element is the thing that made him a superstar in the 80s

I call it UPTOWN ErOtIc CiTy Paisley Park etc

His element. He talked about it (his 'competition' and the thing that solidified his scene) was that there was Prince(his band) the Time Vanity 6 Sheila E the Family Madhouse. He reflected himself through these people and the music which sharpened himself.
.
But Michael got onto James Brown stage and rocked it. Prince at the time was not as seasoned and was out of his element. So he floundered. The stripping, the skreeching, and then pulling the fake lamp post down onto the audience at the end. The first two would work, where people came to see Prince. But at someone elses concert not so much. Everyone wasn't Prince fans. Everyone didn't 'get it'. He wasn't in his element.

.

In 1983 he asked his band member to sit and watch him practice dancing for hours until he got comfortable dancing in front of a crowd.

purplerabbithole said:

What is Prince's element?

I am sure if someone handed him a guitar that wasn't too big and was actually in tune he would have been fine in most settings even in 82 and 83. His Head solo from around 80/81 after the sexual part convinced me that he was a damn fine guitarist even then.

In 82 and 83, he still had something to offer and could have done just fine playing a decent little guitar solo.. Jeez, MIchael didn't do anything that earthshattering in that clip. You know more than I do about how much Prince accomplished by 82/83. . No, he wasn't a great dancer yet, but he was no slouch in other departments. . He seemed to be able to improvize in most cases.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Oh Gawd... seriously? You like to make mountains out of molehills don't you? lol

Did I say "Prince deliberately sabotaged his own performance on stage with..."?

No do some reading on what others have said about Prince outside of his element.

Prince in 1982/83 was just getting coming into his own grove at that time. MJ knew what he was doing when he had James call Prince up on stage. Bobby Z was there with Prince as well.

James Brown was one of Prince's idols. Compare Prince on stage with someone like Stevie Wonder in 1998 vs James Brown 1982. Price didn't care for performing with people of a certain stardom.

He even had a little issue with Miles Davis and Prince's band at the 1987 New Years eve show.

Prince talked about himself. Maybe some of it was Prince's own isms. Like thinking meeting and working directly with Clare Fischer wouldbe bad luck.

Sorry that was just 'too much' debating there to read. I'll try to read some more tomorrow. My back hurts.

NouveauDance said:

Adorecream said:

Yeah about the same chance as Michael Jackson did in early 91.

I think he had a way better chance than MJ for various reasons!

Yeah, I don't know what Adorecream meant by that one...

rlittler81 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I think they were cool long before 2015, that photo of them embracing was 2007

Yeah, I always remember in 2005 when Madonna was promoting Confessions On A Dance Floor and show was on BBC Radio 1. When asked her favourite song to play on the radio, she chose 'When Doves Cry' and talked about working with Prince and how amazing he was. I always got the impression she had nothing but respect and admiration for his talent and work and was pretty much in awe of him like the rest of us.

And in the latter 90s Prince talked about what she did in the early-mid 90s scene with respect. And saying she took what he did with sex in the 80s and pushed it right off the table.

http://beautifulnightschitown.blogspot.com/2013/05/sexy-dancer-cat-glover-talks-2.html

Prince, Madonna and I were the original lineup for Graffiti Bridge. That movie was strictly written for Prince, Madonna and myself. Period. Exclamation point.

.
That movie was actually written on the Lovesexy Tour. Everyone in that movie replaced us. Prince actually wrote the movie and most of it was what we experienced on the Lovesexy Tour. Madonna pulled out of the movie and I left Prince; I quit. So, he had to revamp the script.

.
That's when he got Ingrid Chavez and everyone else. But, Mavis Staples was one person that was originally supposed to be in the movie. She was always part of the movie. Sheila E. was part of the movie. Everyone else was a replacement. I don't mean to say it that way, it sounds kind of harsh and mean, but, I know the original script.

.
I was in the studio with Madonna and Prince when they were discussing the script. The story was totally different. I remember they were arguing over the script, bragging on each other, talking about each other's shoes and I was laughing. Madonna said to Prince "Cat and I should have a dance battle" and Prince said (speaking in a low raspy voice) "I don't think so. I don't think you want to do that. I don't think you want to dance against Cat." That's just how he said it. I'll never forget it.

.
That was two powerful people, together, in the same space—and me. I was more like a bystander listening and watching.

.
But, the whole movie changed.

OldFriends4Sale said:

Missmusicluver72 said:

I was a little underwhelmed with Love Song when I first heard it to be honest. Maybe it is one that will grow on me over time. I was expecting something a little more upbeat, funky like from P and Madonna, but I did like Keep it Together though.

I do agree with her when she says she and P are on the same level power wise though. She'd be the first one to admit that she isn't the greatest singer,/musician, but she never tried to be. I always felt they were so much alike in their attitude towards things, such as doing their own thing and having the take it or leave it approach and not being at all afraid and exploring and embracing sexuality that made others so uncomfortable, especially in their early years. I know they had a little beef over the years with one another, but it is cool they mended fences back in 2015 and sweet of her to do that tribute at the AMAs and that outfit she had on was cool also.

I think they were cool long before 2015, that photo of them embracing was 2007

Oh yeah and I like that yellow suit! They've always had a mutual respect and admiration for each other and it would've been cool to see her in Grafitti Bridge. When she saw him play in 2015, sounds like she was mesmerized by his guitar playing too, well aren't we all? Lol.