Menes said:

OperatingThetan said:

luvsexy4all said: Was he? Or was he protecting Prince's privacy? Kirk was Prince's close friend for decades; his best man at his first wedding in '96. It's very likely he was also involved in trying to get Prince legitimate help. After all, it was Kirk who drove Prince to the hospital and accompanied him to the pharmacy on the last day of his life. Whatever, I for one will not be assuming a man is guilty of murder without evidence. Prince lived the way he chose based on very unfortunate circumstances in his last year. To suggest Prince didn't know the risks after overdosing and nearly dying just 5 days before simply isn't credible. Prince had just seen a hospital doctor, had legitimate prescribed medication and knew professional help was arriving just hours later the next morning, yet STILL took medication from an illegally obtained stash. I'm very smpathetic to Prince's circumstances but still feel the majority of the responsibility is likely Prince's own

The mind of an addict , specifically, one addicted for many years, is fraught with things unimaginable to a person who has a normal brain. This is a brain disease that has modified perceptions and thought processes in regards to wrong/right, moral/immoral , life/death.

The convenience of being a pathological liar, master manipulator and arbitrator of all things "self" ,is merely a by-product of mutated cells that are receptive to constant bombardment for reward.The incessant paradigm of someone addicted to drugs, is usually coupled with one rule that is adhered to. That rule is to get high to sustain every psychological and physical trigger throughout the day. Prince's reward system is no different in that regard. Death and destruction are usually the only path of escape once the addiction begins to override all things rational.

He used just about everyone around him to facilitate this disease, most of them being unknown participants. Prince is merely a victim of his own consequences. It matters not if he thought he was "self'medicating". His actions are in line with a person who has decided to let his addiction govern his actions.

Sad but true Menes!

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

The mind of an addict , specifically, one addicted for many years, is fraught with things unimaginable to a person who has a normal brain. This is a brain disease that has modified perceptions and thought processes in regards to wrong/right, moral/immoral , life/death.

The convenience of being a pathological liar, master manipulator and arbitrator of all things "self" ,is merely a by-product of mutated cells that are receptive to constant bombardment for reward.The incessant paradigm of someone addicted to drugs, is usually coupled with one rule that is adhered to. That rule is to get high to sustain every psychological and physical trigger throughout the day. Prince's reward system is no different in that regard. Death and destruction are usually the only path of escape once the addiction begins to override all things rational.

He used just about everyone around him to facilitate this disease, most of them being unknown participants. Prince is merely a victim of his own consequences. It matters not if he thought he was "self'medicating". His actions are in line with a person who has decided to let his addiction govern his actions.

Sad but true Menes!

If he knew Prince from adam I guess but this sure does not sound like the person 100 hundreds of people interacted with and worked with. Now he has a brain disease instead of joint pain. Notice how on this board "joint pain" went away real fast.

Now he has the mind of an addict as if he was born on drugs.

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

Sad but true Menes!

If he knew Prince from adam I guess but this sure does not sound like the person 100 hundreds of people interacted with and worked with. Now he has a brain disease instead of joint pain. Notice how on this board "joint pain" went away real fast.

Now he has the mind of an addict as if he was born on drugs.

You have to admit Laura, that Prince did dabble in drugs on and off for years.

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

If he knew Prince from adam I guess but this sure does not sound like the person 100 hundreds of people interacted with and worked with. Now he has a brain disease instead of joint pain. Notice how on this board "joint pain" went away real fast.

Now he has the mind of an addict as if he was born on drugs.

You have to admit Laura, that Prince did dabble in drugs on and off for years.

Lol. She has no idea that drug addiction, is in fact, a brain disease. You might as well reason with dead skin cells. Poor thing. Kindred spirits this one and Tyka.

[Edited 1/30/18 9:07am]

ThatWhiteDude said:

udo said:

.

He could have called the doctor, the police, etc.

Especially if he knew there was a chance of him trying illicit stuff again.

Well, okay this is good point.

A doctor was called. Doctor Howard Kornfeld couldn't get there in time so he sent his son Andrew to meet with Prince and treat him for opioid addiction on the 21st. When Andrew arrived at Paisley Park, that's when Prince's body was found and Andrew called 911.

PennyPurple said:

laurarichardson said:

If he knew Prince from adam I guess but this sure does not sound like the person 100 hundreds of people interacted with and worked with. Now he has a brain disease instead of joint pain. Notice how on this board "joint pain" went away real fast.

Now he has the mind of an addict as if he was born on drugs.

You have to admit Laura, that Prince did dabble in drugs on and off for years.

I do not think the long rambling textbook nonsense applies to Prince because everybody's is sitiutaion is different. In addtion, none of us knew him on a personal level so the arm chair analysis needs to stop.

I do not believe that Prince was a recreational drug user. I am sorry he pissed off too many people and they would be running their mouths by this time. Estates cannot sue for defamation and the tabs would pay nice money for some drug stories. We have only heard he was a big time wine drinker and if someone said he had drinking problem I could believe that but I am not sure how wine drinking would work for 20 years with pill popping?

I think he had an Rx for these drugs. In fact we know he had surgery so he would of had to have an Rx at some point.

I do not think Prince was using drugs back in the 80s. If you read the book out now with his studio session Sunset sound logs I do not think it would have been possible for him to get that much work done high. I think we do not see him walking around with a cane until the early 90s. It also around the early 2000s that Kevin Smith said Prince complained about not being able to get up and walk due to pain. One of the girls in Millania Micki White said a tour he was suppose to do with him in the early 2000s was canceled because he re injuried his hip as he was suppose to stay off it.

We know he fell and injured his ankle on the JOTY tour. I think as his injuries progressed he used more pain killers. Knowing what we know now about how poweful these drugs were made in the last 15 years I suspect his problem started when the potency of these drugs increased.

We are missing so much info that we have no timeline or info on his overall health to say what exactly happened but anyone can see that he starts to look very different around 2013 and 2014. In fact he actually does not look as bad as he did doing the symbol period but something about his concerts and demenor are off.

We know he started shutting things down and scaling back and we know this is when Tyka got her call. I think he had issues with these drugs and something else happend to escalate it even more.

laurarichardson said:

Menes said:

The mind of an addict , specifically, one addicted for many years, is fraught with things unimaginable to a person who has a normal brain. This is a brain disease that has modified perceptions and thought processes in regards to wrong/right, moral/immoral , life/death.

The convenience of being a pathological liar, master manipulator and arbitrator of all things "self" ,is merely a by-product of mutated cells that are receptive to constant bombardment for reward.The incessant paradigm of someone addicted to drugs, is usually coupled with one rule that is adhered to. That rule is to get high to sustain every psychological and physical trigger throughout the day. Prince's reward system is no different in that regard. Death and destruction are usually the only path of escape once the addiction begins to override all things rational.

He used just about everyone around him to facilitate this disease, most of them being unknown participants. Prince is merely a victim of his own consequences. It matters not if he thought he was "self'medicating". His actions are in line with a person who has decided to let his addiction govern his actions.

You know this because you were hangin out in Paisley Park or because you copied this from a text book. I love the internet analysis. (LOL) I know you are really Claire. Prince's long lost wife that was married in a secret CIA ceremony.

Do you have any higher education crudentials , Laura? Are you much into advanced math or science? I don't have to copy anything from a text book. I'll put my crudentials up against yours, or anyone else in here any day.

sexton said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

Well, okay this is good point.

A doctor was called. Doctor Howard Kornfeld couldn't get there in time so he sent his son Andrew to meet with Prince and treat him for opioid addiction on the 21st. When Andrew arrived at Paisley Park, that's when Prince's body was found and Andrew called 911.

Andrew did not arrive until the 21st What does that have to do with the night of the 20th. You call in a report of person trying to do harm to himself. If he had all these drugs in Paisley Park his butt would have been taken in to jail.

The problem had a simple solution and it did not have to be Andrew from CA. The whole thing sounds like some wacky half ass intervention.

laurarichardson said:

PennyPurple said:

You have to admit Laura, that Prince did dabble in drugs on and off for years.

I do not think the long rambling textbook nonsense applies to Prince because everybody's is sitiutaion is different. In addtion, none of us knew him on a personal level so the arm chair analysis needs to stop.

I do not believe that Prince was a recreational drug user. I am sorry he pissed off too many people and they would be running their mouths by this time. Estates cannot sue for defamation and the tabs would pay nice money for some drug stories. We have only heard he was a big time wine drinker and if someone said he had drinking problem I could believe that but I am not sure how wine drinking would work for 20 years with pill popping?

I think he had an Rx for these drugs. In fact we know he had surgery so he would of had to have an Rx at some point.

I do not think Prince was using drugs back in the 80s. If you read the book out now with his studio session Sunset sound logs I do not think it would have been possible for him to get that much work done high. I think we do not see him walking around with a cane until the early 90s. It also around the early 2000s that Kevin Smith said Prince complained about not being able to get up and walk due to pain. One of the girls in Millania Micki White said a tour he was suppose to do with him in the early 2000s was canceled because he re injuried his hip as he was suppose to stay off it.

We know he fell and injured his ankle on the JOTY tour. I think as his injuries progressed he used more pain killers. Knowing what we know now about how poweful these drugs were made in the last 15 years I suspect his problem started when the potency of these drugs increased.

We are missing so much info that we have no timeline or info on his overall health to say what exactly happened but anyone can see that he starts to look very different around 2013 and 2014. In fact he actually does not look as bad as he did doing the symbol period but something about his concerts and demenor are off.

We know he started shutting things down and scaling back and we know this is when Tyka got her call. I think he had issues with these drugs and something else happend to escalate it even more.

Hahaha, "textbook nonsense". Decades and decades of verifiable scientific evidence has been reduced to :"textbook nonsense".

laurarichardson said:

sexton said:

A doctor was called. Doctor Howard Kornfeld couldn't get there in time so he sent his son Andrew to meet with Prince and treat him for opioid addiction on the 21st. When Andrew arrived at Paisley Park, that's when Prince's body was found and Andrew called 911.

Andrew did not arrive until the 21st What does that have to do with the night of the 20th. You call in a report of person trying to do harm to himself. If he had all these drugs in Paisley Park his butt would have been taken in to jail.

The problem had a simple solution and it did not have to be Andrew from CA. The whole thing sounds like some wacky half ass intervention.

Howard Kornfeld was called on the 20th.

sexton said:

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

You know this because you were hangin out in Paisley Park or because you copied this from a text book. I love the internet analysis. (LOL) I know you are really Claire. Prince's long lost wife that was married in a secret CIA ceremony.

Do you have any higher education crudentials , Laura? Are you much into advanced math or science? I don't have to copy anything from a text book. I'll put my crudentials up against yours, or anyone else in here any day.

If you have crudentials he is still not your patient. You cannot evaluate someone based on what you read in the news with half of the information being second hand.

We really only have the search warrants as official documentation. We have not even seen any of the police's investigation or health files. Most of which we are never going to see.

Are you taking a page out of Dr. Kornfield's book and diagnoising a patient from a far and in this case from the grave?

I did not know him and you did not know him. We are missing hugh chunks of info.

sexton said:

laurarichardson said:

Andrew did not arrive until the 21st What does that have to do with the night of the 20th. You call in a report of person trying to do harm to himself. If he had all these drugs in Paisley Park his butt would have been taken in to jail.

The problem had a simple solution and it did not have to be Andrew from CA. The whole thing sounds like some wacky half ass intervention.

Howard Kornfeld was called on the 20th.

By whom and how would that have stopped Prince that night?

OperatingThetan said:

sexton said:

A doctor was called. Doctor Howard Kornfeld couldn't get there in time so he sent his son Andrew to meet with Prince and treat him for opioid addiction on the 21st. When Andrew arrived at Paisley Park, that's when Prince's body was found and Andrew called 911.

Kirk had also driven Prince to his hospital appointment the day before and to the pharmacy to collect Prince's legitimate prescribed medication. The big question is why Prince couldn't wait through one evening for his appointment with Andrew in the morning without taking pills from his illegal stash? That we may never know.

Also why not take the pills that he sent KJ to pick up.

laurarichardson said:

Menes said:

Do you have any higher education crudentials , Laura? Are you much into advanced math or science? I don't have to copy anything from a text book. I'll put my crudentials up against yours, or anyone else in here any day.

If you have crudentials he is still not your patient. You cannot evaluate someone based on what you read in the news with half of the information being second hand.

We really only have the search warrants as official documentation. We have not even seen any of the police's investigation or health files. Most of which we are never going to see.

Are you taking a page out of Dr. Kornfield's book and diagnoising a patient from a far and in this case from the grave?

I did not know him and you did not know him. We are missing hugh chunks of info.

What does any of this have to do with what drug addiction is, scientifically? Do you think you need to have a patient to understand that? Try to keep up and read carefully. Don't you have an advanced degree in something ?

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

sexton said:

Howard Kornfeld was called on the 20th.

By whom and how would that have stopped Prince that night?

All reports I've read only say "Prince's representatives" called Doctor Howard Kornfeld to emergency treat him for his addiction on the 20th: http://www.chicagotribune...story.html

He wasn't able to get there until the 22nd, so he sent his son Andrew to treat him instead on the morning of the 21st. No one knew he was going to die a few hours before the doctor arrived.

PennyPurple said:

Menes said:

The mind of an addict , specifically, one addicted for many years, is fraught with things unimaginable to a person who has a normal brain. This is a brain disease that has modified perceptions and thought processes in regards to wrong/right, moral/immoral , life/death.

The convenience of being a pathological liar, master manipulator and arbitrator of all things "self" ,is merely a by-product of mutated cells that are receptive to constant bombardment for reward.The incessant paradigm of someone addicted to drugs, is usually coupled with one rule that is adhered to. That rule is to get high to sustain every psychological and physical trigger throughout the day. Prince's reward system is no different in that regard. Death and destruction are usually the only path of escape once the addiction begins to override all things rational.

He used just about everyone around him to facilitate this disease, most of them being unknown participants. Prince is merely a victim of his own consequences. It matters not if he thought he was "self'medicating". His actions are in line with a person who has decided to let his addiction govern his actions.

Sad but true Menes!

what a judgemental spiel of poppycock, none of us were even there so to say something that conclusive is just presumptuous. As far as how he treated people, he did that when he was young and with my life experience, the biggest addiction I've seen in this society is to Power, not alcohol or drugs so it wouldn't make Prince some outlier. I still believe Prince had a fatal illness and did the best he could under the circumstances right up to the end. I'll admit I could be wrong but with the scant info we have, none of us can be drawing any conclusions. And personally, I try not to judge anothers pain, there is such pain that will make you wish for death, I've felt it and so have others.

sexton said:

laurarichardson said:

By whom and how would that have stopped Prince that night?

All reports I've read only say "Prince's representatives" called Doctor Howard Kornfeld to emergency treat him for his addiction on the 20th: http://www.chicagotribune...story.html

He wasn't able to get there until the 22nd, so he sent his son Andrew to treat him instead on the morning of the 21st. No one knew he was going to die a few hours before the doctor arrived.

None of this has anything to do with what Kirk or Meron could have done prior to the 2oth.

[Edited 1/30/18 9:53am]

PeteSilas said:

PennyPurple said:

Sad but true Menes!

what a judgemental spiel of poppycock, none of us were even there so to say something that conclusive is just presumptuous. As far as how he treated people, he did that when he was young and with my life experience, the biggest addiction I've seen in this society is to Power, not alcohol or drugs so it wouldn't make Prince some outlier. I still believe Prince had a fatal illness and did the best he could under the circumstances right up to the end. I'll admit I could be wrong but with the scant info we have, none of us can be drawing any conclusions. And personally, I try not to judge anothers pain, there is such pain that will make you wish for death, I've felt it and so have others.

Ah, nom de guerre , Pete Silas...Yea, you're rather scientific with that diatribe. Why don't you tell us what drug addiction really is , scientifically? Nothing in this world happens without math and science being applied. Nothing.

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

If you have crudentials he is still not your patient. You cannot evaluate someone based on what you read in the news with half of the information being second hand.

We really only have the search warrants as official documentation. We have not even seen any of the police's investigation or health files. Most of which we are never going to see.

Are you taking a page out of Dr. Kornfield's book and diagnoising a patient from a far and in this case from the grave?

I did not know him and you did not know him. We are missing hugh chunks of info.

What does any of this have to do with what drug addiction is, scientifically? Do you think you need to have a patient to understand that? Try to keep up and read carefully. Don't you have an advanced degree in something ?

I know what drug addiction is and I know when someone is repeating something they learned in school without speaking to the patient. All patients are different and all patients receive an evaluation for their issues no matter what the medial problem.

Who does not know this? Doctors, and Social Workers do not diagnose patients based on second hand info and media reports. You did not know Prince or what he was going thru. You know what others have said via the media and what we all read in a search warrant.

There is a real possibility that we only know one part of his situation with a whole chunk of info missing. ( Some addtional info is avalible that you do not even acknowledge because apparently when people have terminal illness they cannot go home and die without permission from a doctor or hospital)

Stop thinking that none of us on this board went past the 4th grade.

laurarichardson said:

sexton said:

All reports I've read only say "Prince's representatives" called Doctor Howard Kornfeld to emergency treat him for his addiction on the 20th: http://www.chicagotribune...story.html

He wasn't able to get there until the 22nd, so he sent his son Andrew to treat him instead on the morning of the 21st. No one knew he was going to die a few hours before the doctor arrived.

Non of this has anything to do with what Kirk or Meron could have done prior to the 2oth.

I never said it did. It was stated a doctor wasn't called before Prince died. I provided evidence that a doctor was indeed called.

sexton said:

laurarichardson said:

Non of this has anything to do with what Kirk or Meron could have done prior to the 2oth.

I never said it did. It was stated a doctor wasn't called before Prince died. I provided evidence that a doctor was indeed called.

We have no idea if a doctor was called before the 20th. Many of us are saying other things could have been done and they were not.

Menes said:

PeteSilas said:

what a judgemental spiel of poppycock, none of us were even there so to say something that conclusive is just presumptuous. As far as how he treated people, he did that when he was young and with my life experience, the biggest addiction I've seen in this society is to Power, not alcohol or drugs so it wouldn't make Prince some outlier. I still believe Prince had a fatal illness and did the best he could under the circumstances right up to the end. I'll admit I could be wrong but with the scant info we have, none of us can be drawing any conclusions. And personally, I try not to judge anothers pain, there is such pain that will make you wish for death, I've felt it and so have others.

Ah, nom de guerre , Pete Silas...Yea, you're rather scientific with that diatribe. Why don't you tell us what drug addiction really is , scientifically? Nothing in this world happens without math and science being applied. Nothing.

scientific? not really. anyway, from my exp, anything can be addictive, religion, sex, gambling,television, the internet and then we have the stuff we can take in, drugs and alcohol and food. It's all bad if we can't keep it in perspective. What I said about power being the biggest addiction of all is one I want to reemphasize, I've seen it all my life and because it's such a part of the structure of our society we don't really notice it but the addiction to it is real, the craving for it is real, the pretense of having it is real.

laurarichardson said:

Menes said:

What does any of this have to do with what drug addiction is, scientifically? Do you think you need to have a patient to understand that? Try to keep up and read carefully. Don't you have an advanced degree in something ?

I know what drug addiction is and I know when someone is repeating something they learned in school without speaking to the patient. All patients are different and all patients receive an evaluation for their issues no matter what the medial problem.

Who does not know this? Doctors, and Social Workers do not diagnose patients based on second hand info and media reports. You did not know Prince or what he was going thru. You know what others have said via the media and what we all read in a search warrant.

There is a real possibility that we only know one part of his situation with a whole chunk of info missing. ( Some addtional info is avalible that you do not even acknowledge because apparently when people have terminal illness they cannot go home and die without permission from a doctor or hospital)

Stop thinking that none of us on this board went past the 4th grade.

Hahahahaha . Right right right. Since you know what addiction is, is addiction a brain disease or not?

Well, by your sentence structures and vocabulary, it is quite evident that you went past the (4th) grade.

PeteSilas said:

Menes said:

Ah, nom de guerre , Pete Silas...Yea, you're rather scientific with that diatribe. Why don't you tell us what drug addiction really is , scientifically? Nothing in this world happens without math and science being applied. Nothing.

scientific? not really. anyway, from my exp, anything can be addictive, religion, sex, gambling,television, the internet and then we have the stuff we can take in, drugs and alcohol and food. It's all bad if we can't keep it in perspective. What I said about power being the biggest addiction of all is one I want to reemphasize, I've seen it all my life and because it's such a part of the structure of our society we don't really notice it but the addiction to it is real, the craving for it is real, the pretense of having it is real.

Yes, scientific. All of it. Please don't confuse "addiction" with inherent behavioral traits or environmental modifications, as the two often intertwine.

Mumio said:

TheEnglishGent said:

I'm sure Kirk was his friend and would have done anything Prince asked. The interview where Kirk laughed when questioned, is pretty sickening at face value. But why did he laugh? Is he some kind of heartless, murdering scum bag? Or had he been insistent prior to the interview that he wasn't gogin to answer any questions relating to Prince and drugs. Maybe he'd told them a dozen times that he wasn't going to answer those questions, then the cameras roll and suddenly it's, "So, about them drugs"

Exactly. I have noticed that many people have chosen to look at his obvious discomfort during this interview as a sign of guilt but what you said here was my first thought when I saw it. That nervous laughter read "ambush" to me because that interview script probably wasn't what was agreed upon. I think it's common sense to realize he'd have never agreed to talk about any of that so not sure why people saw his behavior as a sign of guilt.

yes mumio and englishgent.

Why are we fighting about this? Someone in Prince's Minnesota camp called someone in New York about Prince's condition. New York called California, and IIRC it was Phaedra or Rhonda who called Dr. Kornfeld. Andrew arrived late on the 20th or early on the 21st. He wasn't brought immediately to PP. I think Prince was already dead by then, but that is just my opinion. Am I wrong here in remembering this part of the timeline?

1Sasha said: