purplerabbithole said:

I have not listened to the Family yet to be honest. I will eventually but the arguments between P and them have tainted the possible enjoyment of it for me right now.

You seem to take these things a lot more seriously than either Prince or the Family took them. When the Family and the Time reformed Prince released that medley of Mutiny and Ice Cream Castles in a tongue in cheek "these are my songs and watch me play them better than you" way, Fdeluxe responded by making fun of his recent Hot Summer song, it was quite a funny back and forth. From my vantage point everyone was laughing. Prince never needed anyone to be bitter on his behalf.

[Edited 2/2/18 6:49am]

Militant said:

Some of them I prefer The Family version - Screams of Passion clearly works better as a duet, for example.

Others, I prefer P's demos.

oh i would love a Prince and Susannah version!

consistently said:

OperatingThetan said:

Pristine Prince versions of these tracks would represent a new classic album for me, so no.

I'd love to hear this.

This is the first time I've logged onto the Org in nearly a year, and by sheer coincidence I'm watching the Family show from First Avenue in '86 and thinking how much of a damp rag St Paul is. And also how Susannah's not a bad lil dancer!

LOL well St Paul had the burden to 'carry' the show. Being his first time, if you read the reviews of Prince's first show at the Capri, the consensus was I still would love to see it and OWN it for its historic value. Sheila E was given similar reactions to her earlier shows.

Why wouldn't they be predictable thou person who became a 'fan' after Prince died?

.

If people are hardcore fans for 30yrs why wouldn't we have defined opinions? But I also give detailed reasonings.

I am proud to be Prince fan, and I make it known my romantic Prince fav era was 1977-1989

With everything and everyone involved.

.

Don't drink the cool aid, and the accusations won't come. Doey eyed puppy love responses that just because Prince's vocals are on it, stiffles real discussion. 'Hey what do you think of __ song?' 'I don't know but Prince is just so beautiful'

.

Comparing a rough demo to a finished product...
Not really. I actually love the rough demos. I love that demo quality. Like you are hearing something secret. I still listen to my 3+min version of We Can Fuck. I still listen to the 11min demos of Computer Blue which is more rusty than the polished 14min versions. I LOVE the 1976/77 demos. And Leaving 4 New York is regular on my playlist.

. Now after having said that, if you have not heard the Prince/Family demos, your assumption that they are 'rough' is off. They are not rough at all. At least the ones I have.

.

You have not listened to the Family yet. Either you are a Prince 'fan ' or you are not

Get on with it.

.

And I prefer the 'Prince' rough demo version of Manic Monday to the Bangles

purplerabbithole said:

The answers on this thread are so utterly predictable from some of you. Paulludvig and OF4S are like two talking pieces for their respective political parties coming on a debate show. You know exactly what their stances are before they open their mouths. And always in these discussions someone comes on to accuse those who prefer Prince's vocals of blind loyalty.

Comparing a rough demo to a finished product is actually a bit unfair in most cases.

I have not listened to the Family yet to be honest. I will eventually but the arguments between P and them have tainted the possible enjoyment of it for me right now. Bring on the attack OF4S.

That being said...I like the Bangles version of Manic Monday better than Prince's. I like P's version of NC2U better than Sinead's because I always thought Sinead's version sounded too serious, melodramatic and gloomy for the eccentric lyrics in the song. In other words, even though the song is sad, it has some light irony and hope in it in Prince's version Its bluesy and romantic in P's version unlike the excessive suffering of Les Miserables.. Sinead sounds like her mom just died.

[Edited 2/2/18 4:02am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

purplerabbithole said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Why wouldn't they be predictable thou person who became a 'fan' after Prince died?

.

If people are hardcore fans for 30yrs why wouldn't we have defined opinions? But I also give detailed reasonings.

I am proud to be Prince fan, and I make it known my romantic Prince fav era was 1977-1989

With everything and everyone involved.

.

Don't drink the cool aid, and the accusations won't come. Doey eyed puppy love responses that just because Prince's vocals are on it, stiffles real discussion. 'Hey what do you think of __ song?' 'I don't know but Prince is just so beautiful'

.

Comparing a rough demo to a finished product...
Not really. I actually love the rough demos. I love that demo quality. Like you are hearing something secret. I still listen to my 3+min version of We Can Fuck. I still listen to the 11min demos of Computer Blue which is more rusty than the polished 14min versions. I LOVE the 1976/77 demos. And Leaving 4 New York is regular on my playlist.

. Now after having said that, if you have not heard the Prince/Family demos, your assumption that they are 'rough' is off. They are not rough at all. At least the ones I have.

.

You have not listened to the Family yet. Either you are a Prince 'fan ' or you are not

Get on with it.

.

And I prefer the 'Prince' rough demo version of Manic Monday to the Bangles

None of your rant doesn’t make you predictable. Statements like I have a clear preference for certain period of time in the 80’s and everyone and everything in it—duh, you think the family versions are just as good. I think p’s demos are generally very strong and sometimes preferable to his more produced songs but for most artists demos are basic and rough snd it really isn’t fair comparison in most cases. If one’s favorite aspect of a song is strings than the demo is going to pale in comparision. I have heard P’s screams of passion demo on YouTube—it was okay. Also your attack was predictable.

chiiile gone which yo self

I can easily predict you too

Why are you even talking, if you haven't heard them outside of Screams of Passion?
I love both, how is that predictable. I love the added wildness to Prince's version
And we only have Screams of Passion Mutiny Desire and High Fashion to go by(the latter 2 are Prince with the Revolution) There is also Feline(outtake)but no Family/St Paul version
Who put the Family together, the music, the vision, the style? So in prefering the Family version as well, I'm still prefering Prince.

You said for Of4$ to bring it, I did.

purplerabbithole said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Why wouldn't they be predictable thou person who became a 'fan' after Prince died?

.

If people are hardcore fans for 30yrs why wouldn't we have defined opinions? But I also give detailed reasonings.

I am proud to be Prince fan, and I make it known my romantic Prince fav era was 1977-1989

With everything and everyone involved.

.

Don't drink the cool aid, and the accusations won't come. Doey eyed puppy love responses that just because Prince's vocals are on it, stiffles real discussion. 'Hey what do you think of __ song?' 'I don't know but Prince is just so beautiful'

.

Comparing a rough demo to a finished product...
Not really. I actually love the rough demos. I love that demo quality. Like you are hearing something secret. I still listen to my 3+min version of We Can Fuck. I still listen to the 11min demos of Computer Blue which is more rusty than the polished 14min versions. I LOVE the 1976/77 demos. And Leaving 4 New York is regular on my playlist.

. Now after having said that, if you have not heard the Prince/Family demos, your assumption that they are 'rough' is off. They are not rough at all. At least the ones I have.

.

You have not listened to the Family yet. Either you are a Prince 'fan ' or you are not

Get on with it.

.

And I prefer the 'Prince' rough demo version of Manic Monday to the Bangles

None of your rant doesn’t make you predictable. Statements like I have a clear preference for certain period of time in the 80’s and everyone and everything in it—duh, you think the family versions are just as good. I think p’s demos are generally very strong and sometimes preferable to his more produced songs but for most artists demos are basic and rough snd it really isn’t fair comparison in most cases. If one’s favorite aspect of a song is strings than the demo is going to pale in comparision. I have heard P’s screams of passion demo on YouTube—it was okay. Also your attack was predictable.

chiiile gone which yo self

I can easily predict you too

Why are you even talking, if you haven't heard them outside of Screams of Passion?
I love both, how is that predictable. I love the added wildness to Prince's version
And we only have Screams of Passion Mutiny Desire and High Fashion to go by(the latter 2 are Prince with the Revolution) There is also Feline(outtake)but no Family/St Paul version
Who put the Family together, the music, the vision, the style? So in prefering the Family version as well, I'm still prefering Prince.

You said for Of4$ to bring it, I did.

purplerabbithole said:

I called paulludwig predictable and get a laughing face. Thank God for a sense of humor. [Edited 2/2/18 12:13pm]

I don't hate Prince, Paul hates W & S Melvoin, that seperates us, so even trying to compare us is a bitch. I don't troll peoples pages like PaulLudwig, I don't look for every opportunity to discredit people

So no we are not comparable.

Oh so i was supposed to jump to your need? I gave you a yawn and 2 winks, what more do you want from me...

purplerabbithole said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

None of your rant doesn’t make you predictable. Statements like I have a clear preference for certain period of time in the 80’s and everyone and everything in it—duh, you think the family versions are just as good. I think p’s demos are generally very strong and sometimes preferable to his more produced songs but for most artists demos are basic and rough snd it really isn’t fair comparison in most cases. If one’s favorite aspect of a song is strings than the demo is going to pale in comparision. I have heard P’s screams of passion demo on YouTube—it was okay. Also your attack was predictable.

chiiile gone which yo self

I can easily predict you too

Why are you even talking, if you haven't heard them outside of Screams of Passion?
I love both, how is that predictable. I love the added wildness to Prince's version
And we only have Screams of Passion Mutiny Desire and High Fashion to go by(the latter 2 are Prince with the Revolution) There is also Feline(outtake)but no Family/St Paul version
Who put the Family together, the music, the vision, the style? So in prefering the Family version as well, I'm still prefering Prince.

You said for Of4$ to bring it, I did.

[/ Someone is as fiesty as I predicted they would be.

Your a seer now?

tbokris said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

u r being a bit odd

I never trust people who start out with: Oldfriends4sale, I ALWAYS LOVE your factual posts on Prince history, and ALWAYS thought your posts were spot on...1.30.2018 @ 8:42
Then when I don't agree with the person and bow down I get

'You are very tiresome OldFriends...' 1.31.2018 @ 10:29

barely 24hrs later

I did not become a happy successful person caring about ...

.

keep it on topic

.

If you want to talk about ethnicity take it to P&R

if you want to talk about if sexuality is inapropriate take it to P&R

if you want to talk about sexuality being inappropriate on the org take it to Site discussion

.

we are all non-normative foreign and quaint(I like quaint homes)

Can you dance?

DANCE MUSIC SEX ROMANCE

I did enjoy reading your factual posts about Prince history, but this debate started when I was surprised by opinions you were expressing. And even more surprised now you don't seem to comment on your use of questionable racist language

.

And yet instead of looking inward and maybe thinking 'hmm, maybe I was wrong to use such language' you tell me to 'keep it on topic' when you start discussing your sexual preferences when no one asked, and the topic was Paul Peterson.

.

Shame on you.

.

Geez, tbokris, are you stuck in troll mode.

What the heck has racism to do with the subject at hand? What's so wrong about ethnicity as a word, or concept?
This sudden burst of paranoia is so inappropriate. We don't need a lecture on colonialism, we're quite aware of it.
You're amongst educated, and even enlightened people, for the most.

Mind you, G-Spot doesn't stand for "Godwin Spot" (as they say in France referring to Godwin's law — true and funny fact).
Whoopsie, I mentioned a Jill Jones song in a Family topic!
Quick! Douse me with gasoline and strike a match!

Prince was obsessed with sex. The depth of it, the spirituality of it, the lust of it.
The danger of it. The redemption of it. The vaseline of it.
Face it.

How did this turn into some OF4S bashing is beyond me.
We're talking about someone who is highly authoritative on everything Princey,
one of the best contributors ever on the Org,
so in my book s.he has every right to speak about his 23 positions in one night stand if s.he feels like.
And that was not the case, it was just a statement on how tastes differ, which is precisely what the thread is for.
So please state your preferences and keep your paranoia and bad mood to yourself.

[Edited 2/2/18 15:12pm]

The only thing I'm thankful for is the cashflow Sinead brought home.
It gave Prince the kick to come back with a (commercial) vengeance.

Don't misunderstand me, Sinead is a fantastic female singer. The mere fact she's now considered koo-koo gives me lots of sympathy for her.
She's a real misfit, and I'm always for rebels, I'll take their errors and all anytime, instead of the tons of pathetically bland figures
and phoney copycat posers the pop world is infested with.
Those fuckers always steal the cash registers, leaving the genuine talents they rape doomed to live on welfare.
The public, ineducated as it is, is left in ignorance. Such great silent crimes get perpetrated in art.

What a fucking, messed up world. Sinead had the balls to tell the world how dirty the Vatican really was,
and she got a worldwide public backlash which she never recovered from, instead of a public discussion on abortion.
When you see how liberal we got from there on all family subjects, did someone remind the world
how she was right to bring it up? The courage she had? Naaah.
And so, like Terence, like Meshell, and many others, here's another great artist whose talent is fated
to be recognized by just a few. But that's cool, fuck the crowds.

"Burn the witch!" they all screamed. MTV showed his real, ugly corporate face for the first time and obeyed.
In its first decade, MTV managed to balance between art and business.
Then came the nineties and gone were the incredible video-jingles, and the risky, bold playlists.
Fuck the MBA's, may they and their kind burn in hell for ever, everything their cynicism touches decays and loses its soul.

Thank God for "Spotlight", and all the brave journalists for showing the smelly rot the Curch
has disguised under incense for so many years. Fucking Francis isn't doing much better.
He's like Obama: at first you think he's cool, that he's a breath of fresh air, then you realize it's just the establishement
sending you another of their minions, all wrapped in candy to disguise the aftertaste.

But I digress...

I don't like her version. It's so bland. It's packaged to be an innocuous hit. The only thing that propelled it is the video.
The girl's despair is gorgeous to look at, at the same time it unnerves me: it stands on the verge of feelings pornography.
The vocal performance is great, but this is Sinead we are talking about. Her first album alone is filled with much greater pieces of delivery.
It takes an intimate song made of a beautiful, fragile emotion, and turns it into a poster child for the bourgeois adolescents phony heartbreaks.
And where have the original "wow-wow"’s that close every verse with such delicate modesty gone? What a wreck of a cover.

Timing is everything. If your first approach to the song was the Sinead version, I can understand your love for it.
To you, this was the first emotional contact with the lyrics, the "all the flower that you planted mama" turnaround and the rest.

But honestly, that fucking synth preset? That dull, inoffensive, lazy-as-fuck child-like drum machine pattern?
Those stupid full major, full minor chords? They appeal to the masses, as many hits do, because it's precisely
how someone with a one-year-then-I-gave-up-piano-lessons would play it. Arrangement this is not.
Hopefully, Nellee Hopper used the cash for better purposes, and got his shit together with Massive Attack's "Protection" and Björk's "Debut".
Then he fell back to his awful ways with Madonna, proving once again the best are capable of the worst,
and that a fraud can go unnoticed when all wrapped in hype (which you shouldn't believe, listen to Flavor Flav).


As always, Clare took a Prince's piece, and brought it to much higher levels.
Not that Prince isn't a great arranger, we all know how he revolutionized
the arrangement vocabulary for all pop musicians. But Clare, man... He knows Bartok and shit.

Music lovers often wonder what it would have been for Prince to really sit down and be humble.
To take the time to rework his shit over and over, to strip it to the core, then to rearrange it,
again and again, then to throw it in the trash, and start over again. Working on it for weeks, instead of a few hours.
The Vault is filled with stuff where he lays a good idea on tape, then considers it done,
and hops to the next one, leaving a great riff or an exquisite verse to lay amidst gratuitous effects, factory presets,
boring jams (of course, Prince being the musician he is, even an hour of him on the triangle may bear some interest).

Timing is everything. The Family album went under everyone's radar.
Not only did Paul a fine job of doing the best whitey impersonation of Prince's vocals — there is nothing wrong
with Duran Duran if you take bubblegum pop for what it is and do not try unjust comparisons — to date ("not so loud, Baby!"),
but Susannah did an excellent job as well with her fifths and thirds. Her timbre has the same ethereal quality of Wendy's, what's not to like?

All these blabbers about singing techniques, I'm sure they're persuaded Bob Dylan sings like a goat with emphysema.
Pop music does not care about that. Go back to your jazzy shit, put Andrea Boccelli on a pedestal all you like,
"Nasty Girl" laughs at you with all the powerful, stubborn frailty of her delivery. Personality will always win over technique.

Thank God Prince removed (or was it David Z., another unsung hero of the Prince world?) the snare drums from "Desire",
which would have ruined the pendulum swing of it, and turned full on the cabasa,
or shaker, or whatever the reverberating handfuls of sand thrown against the ocean waves are made of.
That's right, make room for Clare. His strings pulse and throb already. Drums just add a unnecessary, disgraceful weight.

But most of all, praise the Lord for having him removing the drum tracks entirely from "Nothing Compares 2 U"
(the good soul posting the full album on YT turned into a first rate dumbass on the spot
by hacking the album with the drums version — not to mention the shitty audio quality. The original recording sounds fantastic).
What Clare Fischer does with what was already a fine composition is beyond description.

The intro only! Here, Paul does much, much more than imitating Prince.
His "nothing, nothing" that closes the first chorus is strangled with overwhelming longing.
Susannah's voice color matches his with such grace,
they become a very rare case of lead vocal androgyny.

Without his perfect, heartfelt performance (his "all the flowers" beats everyone, Prince's included),
without the great over-compression of Eric revealing every single finger releasing the sax keys,
without the abstract painting of pure fifths and ninths of Clare and the subtle translucent touches of Susannah,
"Nothing Compares 2 U" would never had picked the interest of Sinead and Hopper.

Anyway, the philistines and the zealots are going to be disappointed when all they get is guide vocals from Prince.
I will always be grateful for the side projects. Even him got tired of hearing his own voice, over and over.
The side acts are, first of all, friends, close ones, lovers, and that is a thousand times better of any fucking supa singer you could bring on the table.

This is precisely why they are an important piece of the Prince puzzle, and if you don't get the hometown spirit of Prince,
then you misunderstand what SKipper achieved. Prince could have worked with anyone in the music industry. At one point, they all begged for it.
But Jim Morrisson said it best:

I will not go
Prefer a Feast of Friends
To the Giant Family

[Edited 2/2/18 15:26pm]

The Family jams, but nah, Prince's all the way .