independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Wed 19th Sep 2018 9:19pm
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > In defence of Emancipation
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 1 of 4 1234>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 01/19/18 8:55am

tbokris

In defence of Emancipation

Okay, so this was an album I remember from the time and listened to it a bit then, but since abandoning CDs in the early 2000s, I haven't ever listened to this album in around 15 years. Something about it put me off, the cover, the questionable use of the words emancipation/slave/chains, the fact that I didn't really like the overproduction on TGE and thought this would be incredibly overblown production-wise. And it is. And at points, it's surprisingly cheap sounding. But it's also quite un-Prince sounding.

.

But I did a playlist of the better tracks, taking out the wack 'hard 90s' r&b:


1. The Plan

2. One of Us

3. Let's Have a Baby

4. Bethca By Golly Wow

5. The Holy River

6. Courtin' Time

7. In this Bed I scream

8. Curious Child

9. Saviour

10. The Love we Make

and it's very enjoyable.

Are there any other tracks from the era that would fit on this type of compilation?

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 01/19/18 12:49pm

databank

avatar

There's about 100 threads about this, with every possible tracklist and even some impossible ones.
My Emancipation has 36 songs on it.
A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 01/19/18 12:49pm

TrivialPursuit

It's not overblown in production to me. It actually was the precursor to Prince's later flattened, compressed, acrylic production.

I've said this before: I think Emancipation's biggest problem is the fluff. The schtick of each CD being 60 minutes means he extended some songs for the sake of the timeline, not because it necessarily was good for the song. A lot of disk 3 sounds that way, "Jam Of the Year", "Get You Groove On" and "Joint 2 Joint" are too long, "The Plan" is flat out filler". Some of the songs can easily be edited down to a stronger concise and focused track. Some of the tag endings on disk 1 are okay, others could be nixed.

The Gold Experience was louder and very digital (DAT) compared to his other more organically approached albums (ie: in the warehouse in one room), or band recordings (like D&P or prince ). However, on a commercial level, TGE is brilliant. It's Purple Rain II, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Oddly, Prince stepped away from that plastic sound for subsequent The Rainbow Children, but peeked in on it with NewPowerSoul, yet stepped away again with Musicology, 3121, Planet Earth (partly); then he delved hardcore into it onward. But Emancipation was definitely an early signal to later efforts.

I don't think it's questionable to use the word "slave" or "emancipation", etc. He'd been using slave since 1993, so by 1996, the shock was over for anyone. He was making a statement for three years, and Emancipation was the final part of that. The breaking of the chains was almost expected, if not demanded. Emancipation was the 90s Graffiti Bridge.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 01/19/18 12:52pm

databank

avatar

TrivialPursuit said:

It's not overblown in production to me. It actually was the precursor to Prince's later flattened, compressed, acrylic production.

I've said this before: I think Emancipation's biggest problem is the fluff. The schtick of each CD being 60 minutes means he extended some songs for the sake of the timeline, not because it necessarily was good for the song. A lot of disk 3 sounds that way, "Jam Of the Year", "Get You Groove On" and "Joint 2 Joint" are too long, "The Plan" is flat out filler". Some of the songs can easily be edited down to a stronger concise and focused track. Some of the tag endings on disk 1 are okay, others could be nixed.

The Gold Experience was louder and very digital (DAT) compared to his other more organically approached albums (ie: in the warehouse in one room), or band recordings (like D&P or prince ). However, on a commercial level, TGE is brilliant. It's Purple Rain II, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Oddly, Prince stepped away from that plastic sound for subsequent The Rainbow Children, but peeked in on it with NewPowerSoul, yet stepped away again with Musicology, 3121, Planet Earth (partly); then he delved hardcore into it onward. But Emancipation was definitely an early signal to later efforts.

I don't think it's questionable to use the word "slave" or "emancipation", etc. He'd been using slave since 1993, so by 1996, the shock was over for anyone. He was making a statement for three years, and Emancipation was the final part of that. The breaking of the chains was almost expected, if not demanded. Emancipation was the 90s Graffiti Bridge.


TRC was released 3 years after NPS.
A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 01/19/18 1:11pm

42Kristen

I did not get the whole Emancipation. I know what it stood. Free yourself from someone's bondage. I always thiught it might that not only Prince was trying to free himself under Warner Brothers graps. But also away from Mayte Garcia. I faintly recall that this album was released on Nov. 12, 1996. This is Mayte birthday. It rose my suspicions on what hidden messages that Prince had in his music. confused

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 01/19/18 1:16pm

TheEnglishGent

avatar

tbokris said:

Okay, so this was an album I remember from the time and listened to it a bit then, but since abandoning CDs in the early 2000s, I haven't ever listened to this album in around 15 years. Something about it put me off, the cover, the questionable use of the words emancipation/slave/chains, the fact that I didn't really like the overproduction on TGE and thought this would be incredibly overblown production-wise. And it is. And at points, it's surprisingly cheap sounding. But it's also quite un-Prince sounding.

.

But I did a playlist of the better tracks, taking out the wack 'hard 90s' r&b:

1. The Plan

2. One of Us

3. Let's Have a Baby

4. Bethca By Golly Wow

5. The Holy River

6. Courtin' Time

7. In this Bed I scream

8. Curious Child

9. Saviour

10. The Love we Make

and it's very enjoyable.

Are there any other tracks from the era that would fit on this type of compilation?

4 of your 'better' tracks would not make my cut. And as I say every time this subject is raised, that is the beauty of Emancipation. Prince gave us all these songs and hardly anyone seems to like all of them but we each love different ones. There is no perfect solution to making Emancipation a single disc for everyone.

RIP sad
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 01/19/18 1:16pm

luvsexy4all

it had a different sound ..like all his albums..deal with it

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 01/19/18 1:29pm

TheFman

Still puzzled how P thought this album could sprout singles a whole year.
There isn't even 1 single on it. The Holy River is the worst song he ever did.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 01/19/18 1:57pm

TrivialPursuit

databank said:


TRC was released 3 years after NPS.

OK? Not everything I said was meant to chronological.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 01/19/18 2:31pm

IstenSzek

avatar

y'all a bunch of lightweights. imo emancipation just needs an extra disc lol


disc 4:


01. 20/20

02. Slave 2 The System
03. Feel Good
04. Love (Never Has 2 Say Goodbye)
05. Stone
06. Playtime
07. She Gave Her Angels
08. Van Gogh
09. Journey 2 The Center Of Ur Heart
10. Eye Am The DJ
11. (Excuse Me Is This) Goodbye


bitch, i could even do with a 5th and a 6th disc. cool dancing jig

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 01/19/18 4:24pm

214

TheFman said:

Still puzzled how P thought this album could sprout singles a whole year.
There isn't even 1 single on it. The Holy River is the worst song he ever did.

WTF did you say? eek Burn this witch, heresy.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 01/19/18 4:33pm

Dandroppedadim
e

I remember the early promotion mentioned 52 (or 56?) songs, so the other outtakes were obviously considered. I would of liked an entire disk in that purple techno sound he was toying with (New World etc).

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 01/19/18 5:17pm

tbokris

databank said:

TrivialPursuit said:

It's not overblown in production to me. It actually was the precursor to Prince's later flattened, compressed, acrylic production.

I've said this before: I think Emancipation's biggest problem is the fluff. The schtick of each CD being 60 minutes means he extended some songs for the sake of the timeline, not because it necessarily was good for the song. A lot of disk 3 sounds that way, "Jam Of the Year", "Get You Groove On" and "Joint 2 Joint" are too long, "The Plan" is flat out filler". Some of the songs can easily be edited down to a stronger concise and focused track. Some of the tag endings on disk 1 are okay, others could be nixed.

The Gold Experience was louder and very digital (DAT) compared to his other more organically approached albums (ie: in the warehouse in one room), or band recordings (like D&P or prince ). However, on a commercial level, TGE is brilliant. It's Purple Rain II, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Oddly, Prince stepped away from that plastic sound for subsequent The Rainbow Children, but peeked in on it with NewPowerSoul, yet stepped away again with Musicology, 3121, Planet Earth (partly); then he delved hardcore into it onward. But Emancipation was definitely an early signal to later efforts.

I don't think it's questionable to use the word "slave" or "emancipation", etc. He'd been using slave since 1993, so by 1996, the shock was over for anyone. He was making a statement for three years, and Emancipation was the final part of that. The breaking of the chains was almost expected, if not demanded. Emancipation was the 90s Graffiti Bridge.


TRC was released 3 years after NPS.


Interesting in that Prince’s sound kinda stuck after Rainbow Children for a while, kinda like how Dylan stuck after Time out of Mind. Once Renato Neto was in the band, the sound kinda stayed until 3rd Eye Girl.

Diamonds and Pearls and Symbol share a sound
Come and TGE share a sound.

Would you say Emancipation is on its own? Or is it similar sounding to Rave, New Power Soul?

And when I say questionable use of the word ‘slave’, and Emancipation, I mean it is in poor taste to liken himself to that of actual slavery. He signed a bad contract out of greed and ego and then postures onstage breaking the chains he put himself in. Yes the music industry was terribly weighted in favour of the labels and not the artists, but he made bad decisions and then somehow says he is like someone who isn’t free to make decisions.
[Edited 1/19/18 17:22pm]
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 01/19/18 5:27pm

peedub

avatar

any configuration of 'emancipation' that does not include 'sex in the summer' and 'friend, lover, sister, mother/wife' is just dumb.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 01/19/18 5:48pm

TrivialPursuit

tbokris said:

Once Renato Neto was in the band, the sound kinda stayed until 3rd Eye Girl. Diamonds and Pearls and Symbol share a sound Come and TGE share a sound.


While I'm not a fan of Neto, he did keep a certain element in Prince's music. He also kept an unnecessary fascination with new age jazz in it. Come is the darker side of TGE, for sure.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 01/19/18 7:00pm

214

What about Dreaming About U, Soul Sanctuary, Damned If I Do, Somebody's Somebody and My Computer.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 01/19/18 7:06pm

bobgeorge77

I still remember how amazing it felt to buy this when it came out! To be able to haev 3 cds of new Prince music was incredible!!!

.

There are a few tracks that I don't go out of my way to listen to, but this will always have a special place in my heart! There are some classic songs on here including "The Love We Make", "Soul Sanctuary," "Savior," and "Holy River."

.

Plus I loved the Betcha By Golly video...you could really see a side of him in this video that was so loving and sweet!

.

But, "Dreamin' About U" ...wow!!!..... is one of my Top 10 Prince songs ever! music music

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 01/19/18 7:07pm

bobgeorge77

IstenSzek said:

y'all a bunch of lightweights. imo emancipation just needs an extra disc lol


disc 4:


01. 20/20

02. Slave 2 The System
03. Feel Good
04. Love (Never Has 2 Say Goodbye)
05. Stone
06. Playtime
07. She Gave Her Angels
08. Van Gogh
09. Journey 2 The Center Of Ur Heart
10. Eye Am The DJ
11. (Excuse Me Is This) Goodbye


bitch, i could even do with a 5th and a 6th disc. cool dancing jig

I would love more as well!!! I will have to put this playlist together and try it as the "4th disc"... lol lol

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 01/19/18 8:09pm

HatrinaHaterwi
tz

avatar

Prince's Emancipation does not need defending.

"Too bad for Hell...too good to let Heaven raise him."

He's Mine!
[youtube] https://youtu.be/zJhadIvu9QA [/youtube]

Always has been...always will be!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 01/19/18 10:48pm

MattyJam

avatar

If this had been released as a one disc album, it'd probably be my all time favorite Prince album:

1. Emancipation
2. New World
3. Face Down
4. Somebody's Somebody
5. Courtin Time
6. Joint 2 Joint
7. Soul Sanctuary
8. Curious Child
9. Dreamin About U
10. Sleep Around
11. The Human Body
12. In This Bed eye Scream
13. The Holy River
14. The Love We Make
[Edited 1/19/18 22:54pm]
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 01/20/18 6:22am

dodger

Some gems but a lot of it could be better if it had balls. Most notably Jam Of The Year and the title track, just sound tame. Imagine Michael B and Sonny on them..
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 01/20/18 7:01am

MattyJam

avatar

I listened to JOTY for the first time in ages today and was surprised how much I found myself enjoying it.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #22 posted 01/20/18 7:20am

coldcoffeeandc
ocacola

IstenSzek said:

y'all a bunch of lightweights. imo emancipation just needs an extra disc lol


disc 4:


01. 20/20


02. Slave 2 The System
03. Feel Good
04. Love (Never Has 2 Say Goodbye)
05. Stone
06. Playtime
07. She Gave Her Angels
08. Van Gogh
09. Journey 2 The Center Of Ur Heart
10. Eye Am The DJ
11. (Excuse Me Is This) Goodbye


bitch, i could even do with a 5th and a 6th disc. cool dancing jig




Yes!
Totally!

And hidden Bonus track should b Chakas version of journey 2

Love emancipation
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #23 posted 01/20/18 7:43am

gandorb

TheFman said:

Still puzzled how P thought this album could sprout singles a whole year.
There isn't even 1 single on it. The Holy River is the worst song he ever did.



Way below Purple and Gold, right lol ?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #24 posted 01/20/18 8:01am

TheFman

gandorb said:

TheFman said:

Still puzzled how P thought this album could sprout singles a whole year.
There isn't even 1 single on it. The Holy River is the worst song he ever did.

Way below Purple and Gold, right lol ?

ok you got a point. Let's say 'the worst song he ever did when still in his greater days'. Or 'the worst single he ever made'.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #25 posted 01/20/18 10:10am

IstenSzek

avatar

i hadn't listened to the title track in ages, mainly because my cd had a skip and the rip i made
had that same skip.

now i've acquired a new, high quality rip and listened to the whole album again (enjoying it a
lot).

but the title track. i had forgotten how bass heavy it is! eek it's almost completely made up of
a drum track and several bass tracks, isn't it? with a couple of flourishes here and there.

i don't think he did many tracks where the bass is featured this heavily and this exclusively, or
at least i can't think of any right now.

used to think it was one of his weakest title tracks but at least now i've found something a bit
more interesting about it lol i love all that bass on it smile


and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #26 posted 01/20/18 11:00am

stpaisios

Once Kiss at the Time, White Mansion, Emale, The Love We Make, Sleep Around, Face Down, Somebody's Somebody, Saviour... a lot of great tracks. Project itself was imagined in

grandiose manner, so that is a bit problem - when you want more than you can actually bear, but just a thought that Prince pulled this off at the end - 3hours of music, is beyond my understanding... i will just bow down.

[Edited 1/20/18 11:01am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #27 posted 01/20/18 2:36pm

PeteSilas

tbokris said:

databank said:
TRC was released 3 years after NPS.
Interesting in that Prince’s sound kinda stuck after Rainbow Children for a while, kinda like how Dylan stuck after Time out of Mind. Once Renato Neto was in the band, the sound kinda stayed until 3rd Eye Girl. Diamonds and Pearls and Symbol share a sound Come and TGE share a sound. Would you say Emancipation is on its own? Or is it similar sounding to Rave, New Power Soul? And when I say questionable use of the word ‘slave’, and Emancipation, I mean it is in poor taste to liken himself to that of actual slavery. He signed a bad contract out of greed and ego and then postures onstage breaking the chains he put himself in. Yes the music industry was terribly weighted in favour of the labels and not the artists, but he made bad decisions and then somehow says he is like someone who isn’t free to make decisions. [Edited 1/19/18 17:22pm]

from our perspective, ya it seems pretty foolish but we weren't in his shoes, lots of artists have felt very frustrated by the forces around them, I think it's a huge reason for Elvis' demise. As a musician myself, it seems a bit silly to complain in their position but there is always a negative way to look at things, hence becoming the "vegas lounge lizard" and hating every minute of it. Smokey Robinson is in town, playing a smaller venue at a casino, same one I saw him in a couple years ago, he looked very happy to be alive and performing, a lot of it is attitude. I guess he could look at it and say "I'm such a has been, I can barely fill this small auditorium" rather than "here I am pushing 80 and I'm singing as well as ever and all these people still want to see me". I can see both sides, the business side is stifling and frustrating but that business side also allows these people to live a lot better lives than us average joes.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #28 posted 01/21/18 7:27pm

EddieC

databank said:

There's about 100 threads about this, with every possible tracklist and even some impossible ones. My Emancipation has 36 songs on it.

Ha!

Mine does too, though I will admit I have no soft spot for We Gets Up, and I don't much like Sleep Around. Everything else has at least something worth keeping--so while those two tracks don't do it for me, I'm aware that lots of other people like them and not much else (and I can live through them), so what's the problem? Heck, maybe eventually, if I hear them enough times, I'll finally see what other people do in them. Regardless, it's certainly not worth the time for me to try to figure out which tracks would make a one disc set, especially since I'd immediately want to switch something out for something else as soon as I finished making the selection.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #29 posted 01/22/18 6:33am

stpaisios

EddieC said:

databank said:

There's about 100 threads about this, with every possible tracklist and even some impossible ones. My Emancipation has 36 songs on it.

Ha!

Mine does too, though I will admit I have no soft spot for We Gets Up

Imo, 'Uptown Funk' kids of today would kill to have that song in their pocket. I can agree that somehow dry production kills it, like a lot of songs on Emancipation - but its a song that you can rewind in your head easily... it has memorable moments.

+

Prince said the inspiration of the song came from ''the face one makes when Jordan dunks''. lol

[Edited 1/22/18 6:34am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 1 of 4 1234>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > In defence of Emancipation