XxAxX said:

Susu1976 said:

cloveringold85 said:

laurarichardson said:

Unfortunatly, they are sometimes prescribed for patients who are finding other meds no longer help with chronic pain. Also remember people can have joint problems from arithtic conditions. It could be that Tom had a choice of sitting in a wheelchair and taking pain meds or being on stage doing his final shows.

.

Yes, and we keep hearing about Rheumatoid Arthritis (inflammation of joints), which is very painful. Also, Fibromyalgia (nerve damage from injury/spinal chord). It is also used to control seizures. It's possible that Prince could have had RA, which would explain why it was difficult for him to play the guitar. Same thing happened with Dolores O'Riordan; she was having trouble playing the guitar because of her back injury.

I would have to rule out RA. RA is a debilitating disease caused by the immune system attacking itself. Specifically the joints and the "lubrication" membrane between the joints. It causes severe disfigurement, swelling as well as pain around the affected joints. I have been looking closely at Princes hands in footage taken over the last few years of his life and there is no signs of RA (or indeed any other type of arthritis that causes swelling and disfigurement). It is the fingers where it typically starts (although that is not a set rule).

Fibromyalgia is a different story. Whilst it can be caused by injury, the truth is it is still a bit of a mystery. For example, paople who suffer lupus (another autoimmune disease) can suffer the effects of fibro. Unlike RA fibro is not actually a joint issue. It is the tendons around the joints that cause the pain making it feel like the joints themselves are injured. Also, unliuke RA fibro can affect someone all over their body and isnt neccessarily specific to certain areas. One common theory is that fibro can be bought on by poor sleep patterns. And whilst it is very much a very real ailment, there are suspicions that it can be very psychosematic (sp?). In other words, the more you think you have it or are in pain from it, the worse it gets. There is no swelling or disfigurement with fibro and it can come and go without warning. There is also no evidence that it causes any long term damage or shortens life (unlike RA).

If Prince had any kind of arthritis then I would opt for post traumatic arthritis. It is brought on by an old injury. Repeat hip/knee injuries in the past would have brought it on and compounded the overall injury issue. Especially if he didnt seek treatment for a long time.

herb4 said:

Well of course now the real question now is: Who Murdered Tom Petty and are the two deaths connected? I mean, they were on stage together at arguably the greatest R&RHoF ceremony/performance in its history. Concidence?

I'm kidding of course. Yes, it's a coincidence but I bet some people here think it's connected. All it means is that rich rock stars have an easier time procuring drugs.

Odd that Petty's death is met with a shrug and a hand wave: "Yep, he sure did die of an accidental overdose" while Prince's death still has a few stubborn die hards claiming "we'll never get to the bottom of it! It's so COMPLICATED!" and determinabely maintaining a conspiracy or cover up, for reasons I still cannot ascertain. Or entertain, for that matter.

Maybe the same people offed the Cranberry's singer. We're through the looking glass here, people, LOL.

Sounds to like it's as simple as the investigators not being able to definitively determine or state who procured the illegal pills, and I'm quite certain that's what took so long. It wasn't for lack of looking and, while most of us have a good idea who it was, proving it is another matter.

Tom's family helped in keeping the rumour dogs at bay though. they have come out and basically explained what happened. They have stopped any gossip in its tracks.

Prince's family seem hell bent on keeping all rumours alive and the truth under a secret veil. Almost as if they are wanting to make some money from a tell-all book in the future. But maybe I am just being cynical.

Menes said:

cloveringold85 said:

.

Yes, that could very well be the case. But, why would Prince run to Walgreens that day if he already had his mind made up that he was just gonna take some illegal Fentanyl, and wasn't interested in any intervention? There are so many ways to look at this, and also, Prince could have been pretending to go along with the supposed intervention, knowing that he was not going to follow through with it. With that said, it leaves me back at.....why then have anything scheduled for that day? It's also a high probability that Prince knew nothing about the intervention. It almost appears like they knew something was going to happen....because, there he was, in the elevator, gone.

.

Unfortunately, we will never have the answers to what happened that day and the days leading up to his untimely death.

I don't remember the exact sequence but I think that call to the Kornfelds was a last minute "hail mary" made on the day before he died. Between the 14th and the 20th, something dramatic must have taken place for them to have him fly out immediately, (qualified or not). Whoever made that call did not qualify Andrew, nor did they do any research . This doesn't surprise me because Kirk picked Dr. Schulenberg to "treat" Prince. Millions of dollars at your disposal and Kirk recommends your doctor? Why would you even go that route if you're so buttoned up with your privacy? Go figure.

Now let's just say Prince did in fact have chronic pain from (a) a terminal illness that he was going to die from, or (b) chronic long term pain from hip surgery, it would make no sense for him to attempt to eliminate the ingestion of opiates for pain relief if it's the only thing that granted him temporary relief. If he knew about the intervention , it would mean that he was willing to deal with the pain some other way. If you have pain from terminal cancer, that would probably not be up for discussion.

I think there may have been times between the 14th and the 20th where he may have tried to wean himself off of whatever it was ( cold turkey) and that had some nasty withdrawal symptoms that were cause for alarm. We are talking years of usage, so will-power is about as useless as tits on a bull at this point. I think that's why Kornfeld was called in.

Since Tyka was so close to him, when did she get wind of any of this? No one called her until after it was all over? She was preparing. Tsk.

Do you remember what Tyka's husband said just after his death? He said Prince had been awake for several days (cant remember the exact amount). His comment was then jumped on and squashed once people had time to get their story straight.

I believe he was awake for days on end after the Moline incident. I think he was in the midst of cold turkey and was not handling it well. Not sleeping. Not eating. Erratic behaviour such as throwing a party at home when he should be resting etc.

I imagine lots of visits to the toilet and dehydration. So much so that a visit to the doctor to test hydration levels and organ functions. Perhaps those initial tests allerted his "friends" to the severity of the problem resulting in the intervention.

Drips, tests, agitation, erratic behaviour, Walgreens visits for non prescribed remedies for vomiting, sleep etc. It all points to a man trying cold turkey on his own, going crazy with the effects of it and the lack of sleep. So much so that he cant take any more and reaches for a pill that he knows will take the edge off...

...."Just one more before I get help tomorrow"...




...."or maybe one of these and put a stop to all this drama once and for all?"...

Rebeljuice said:

Menes said:

I don't remember the exact sequence but I think that call to the Kornfelds was a last minute "hail mary" made on the day before he died. Between the 14th and the 20th, something dramatic must have taken place for them to have him fly out immediately, (qualified or not). Whoever made that call did not qualify Andrew, nor did they do any research . This doesn't surprise me because Kirk picked Dr. Schulenberg to "treat" Prince. Millions of dollars at your disposal and Kirk recommends your doctor? Why would you even go that route if you're so buttoned up with your privacy? Go figure.

Now let's just say Prince did in fact have chronic pain from (a) a terminal illness that he was going to die from, or (b) chronic long term pain from hip surgery, it would make no sense for him to attempt to eliminate the ingestion of opiates for pain relief if it's the only thing that granted him temporary relief. If he knew about the intervention , it would mean that he was willing to deal with the pain some other way. If you have pain from terminal cancer, that would probably not be up for discussion.

I think there may have been times between the 14th and the 20th where he may have tried to wean himself off of whatever it was ( cold turkey) and that had some nasty withdrawal symptoms that were cause for alarm. We are talking years of usage, so will-power is about as useless as tits on a bull at this point. I think that's why Kornfeld was called in.

Since Tyka was so close to him, when did she get wind of any of this? No one called her until after it was all over? She was preparing. Tsk.

Do you remember what Tyka's husband said just after his death? He said Prince had been awake for several days (cant remember the exact amount). His comment was then jumped on and squashed once people had time to get their story straight.

I believe he was awake for days on end after the Moline incident. I think he was in the midst of cold turkey and was not handling it well. Not sleeping. Not eating. Erratic behaviour such as throwing a party at home when he should be resting etc.

I imagine lots of visits to the toilet and dehydration. So much so that a visit to the doctor to test hydration levels and organ functions. Perhaps those initial tests allerted his "friends" to the severity of the problem resulting in the intervention.

Drips, tests, agitation, erratic behaviour, Walgreens visits for non prescribed remedies for vomiting, sleep etc. It all points to a man trying cold turkey on his own, going crazy with the effects of it and the lack of sleep. So much so that he cant take any more and reaches for a pill that he knows will take the edge off...

...."Just one more before I get help tomorrow"...




...."or maybe one of these and put a stop to all this drama once and for all?"...

Tyka's husband said he never said that one of the British tabloids published that rubbish.

Many of us know that rumors from his own family members are saying he had a dianosis of Pancretic Cancer. We do not know if this is true or if he family even knew about cancer or his drug issues.

I can believe he may have been dealing with both and trying to go cold turkey since these drugs must be stopped if his organs were going bad and any treatment was coming for cancer.

I can believe that the pill was not taken as an accident. At least two band members have said he told them to go to Paisley Park and get their things out 7 days before he died because they might not be able to get them for a while.

Prince was the executor of his Dad's estate and his dad did not have a will. He knew what would happen without a will and he took the time to send out e-mails to 30 people concerning Paisley Park and put deals in place with WB and Tidal. His operation was almost complely shut down and the security cameras removed. I think he was a man living on borrowed time and not a man planning to go to rehab and go back to work.

laurarichardson said:

Rebeljuice said:

Do you remember what Tyka's husband said just after his death? He said Prince had been awake for several days (cant remember the exact amount). His comment was then jumped on and squashed once people had time to get their story straight.

I believe he was awake for days on end after the Moline incident. I think he was in the midst of cold turkey and was not handling it well. Not sleeping. Not eating. Erratic behaviour such as throwing a party at home when he should be resting etc.

I imagine lots of visits to the toilet and dehydration. So much so that a visit to the doctor to test hydration levels and organ functions. Perhaps those initial tests allerted his "friends" to the severity of the problem resulting in the intervention.

Drips, tests, agitation, erratic behaviour, Walgreens visits for non prescribed remedies for vomiting, sleep etc. It all points to a man trying cold turkey on his own, going crazy with the effects of it and the lack of sleep. So much so that he cant take any more and reaches for a pill that he knows will take the edge off...

...."Just one more before I get help tomorrow"...




...."or maybe one of these and put a stop to all this drama once and for all?"...

Tyka's husband said he never said that one of the British tabloids published that rubbish.

Many of us know that rumors from his own family members are saying he had a dianosis of Pancretic Cancer. We do not know if this is true or if he family even knew about cancer or his drug issues.

I can believe he may have been dealing with both and trying to go cold turkey since these drugs must be stopped if his organs were going bad and any treatment was coming for cancer.

I can believe that the pill was not taken as an accident. At least two band members have said he told them to go to Paisley Park and get their things out 7 days before he died because they might not be able to get them for a while.

Prince was the executor of his Dad's estate and his dad did not have a will. He knew what would happen without a will and he took the time to send out e-mails to 30 people concerning Paisley Park and put deals in place with WB and Tidal. His operation was almost complely shut down and the security cameras removed. I think he was a man living on borrowed time and not a man planning to go to rehab and go back to work.

All good points.

1. Let's say that Tyka knew he had cancer and was self-medicating in secrecy to deal with the pain... This could explain why she was not at all surprised when death came. She had to have known that it would come either by him succumbing to the illness, or, as I have said a million times before ,he would eventually end it himself. Her reaction would therefore not be unusual when you think of what she had to have known . I gather from that type of reaction, that she had prior knowledge of his usage and the risk that comes with it as in: (possible overdose). For her, it was probably more of a relief that he went out quickly and ended the suffering once and for all. She had at least (3) years to deal with knowing.

2. As to Prince going thru withdrawals... As both Rebeljuice and yourself have pointed out, there were too many signs that he was trying to quit cold turkey. This had to have been the worst thing he could have done to himself. If he had cancer, but wanted to get a handle on his addiction, the better strategy would have been to adjust the dosage(s) or change the type of medication prescribed. It's such a common thing to do that it baffles the mind that one would intentionally ignore such a common practice, or , convince yourself that none of those options would have made a difference. There is just no evidence that Prince's cognitive skills were so diminished that he could not think about that. This is why I believe that this is so intentional. Intentional as in, there is nothing else I can really do.

3. I believe as Rebel Juice stated(paraphrasing here) that he could not take anymore of the withdrawals and with reckless abandon, shoveled a number of things down. This is that "whatever happens , happens" moment.

4. There is a saying about "picking your own death". I think Prince picked his death. He had options to deal with things so differently but he chose a different path, intentionally. It's like the guy who crosses five lanes of the highway around rush hour with headphones and blinders on.

5. I just think that the people who claim he was suffering from any type of cancer should examine what is so bad about him dying in the way that he did as opposed to that long term suffering and withering away @ Paisley Park if he did in fact had cancer.

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

Tyka's husband said he never said that one of the British tabloids published that rubbish.

Many of us know that rumors from his own family members are saying he had a dianosis of Pancretic Cancer. We do not know if this is true or if he family even knew about cancer or his drug issues.

I can believe he may have been dealing with both and trying to go cold turkey since these drugs must be stopped if his organs were going bad and any treatment was coming for cancer.

I can believe that the pill was not taken as an accident. At least two band members have said he told them to go to Paisley Park and get their things out 7 days before he died because they might not be able to get them for a while.

Prince was the executor of his Dad's estate and his dad did not have a will. He knew what would happen without a will and he took the time to send out e-mails to 30 people concerning Paisley Park and put deals in place with WB and Tidal. His operation was almost complely shut down and the security cameras removed. I think he was a man living on borrowed time and not a man planning to go to rehab and go back to work.

All good points.

1. Let's say that Tyka knew he had cancer and was self-medicating in secrecy to deal with the pain... This could explain why she was not at all surprised when death came. She had to have known that it would come either by him succumbing to the illness, or, as I have said a million times before ,he would eventually end it himself. Her reaction would therefore not be unusual when you think of what she had to have known . I gather from that type of reaction, that she had prior knowledge of his usage and the risk that comes with it as in: (possible overdose). For her, it was probably more of a relief that he went out quickly and ended the suffering once and for all. She had at least (3) years to deal with knowing.

2. As to Prince going thru withdrawals... As both Rebeljuice and yourself have pointed out, there were too many signs that he was trying to quit cold turkey. This had to have been the worst thing he could have done to himself. If he had cancer, but wanted to get a handle on his addiction, the better strategy would have been to adjust the dosage(s) or change the type of medication prescribed. It's such a common thing to do that it baffles the mind that one would intentionally ignore such a common practice, or , convince yourself that none of those options would have made a difference. There is just no evidence that Prince's cognitive skills were so diminished that he could not think about that. This is why I believe that this is so intentional. Intentional as in, there is nothing else I can really do.

3. I believe as Rebel Juice stated(paraphrasing here) that he could not take anymore of the withdrawals and with reckless abandon, shoveled a number of things down. This is that "whatever happens , happens" moment.

4. There is a saying about "picking your own death". I think Prince picked his death. He had options to deal with things so differently but he chose a different path, intentionally. It's like the guy who crosses five lanes of the highway around rush hour with headphones and blinders on.

5. I just think that the people who claim he was suffering from any type of cancer should examine what is so bad about him dying in the way that he did as opposed to that long term suffering and withering away @ Paisley Park if he did in fact had cancer.

I agree with everything you have to say. Even Tyka saying she was left with task to complete and other people were left with task. She knew someting and I think was given instructions on what to do when the time came. She may not have known exactly when the time was coming but she was at the last party with him. I think she was just told to wait for the call.

We now know from the most recent media reports that he was in the hospital on the 20th getting fluids and test. He would have had some idea what was going on with his health when he left that hospital be it just drugs, organ damage or cancer.

He made a choice to leave that hospital and be by himself with no security people, nurse or cameras. People in the USA have very strong feelings against sucide and I can see way this would be hidden from the public. I actually think that Tom Petty may have intentionally taken all of those pain meds as well and just said whatever happens happens due to the extreme pain he was in. I can see anyone doing if they were hurting bad enough and knew it going to get worst.

Be high out of your mind and not fuctional or be in gut wrenching pain. Not much of a choice.

[Edited 1/22/18 7:41am]

Menes said:

laurarichardson said:

Tyka's husband said he never said that one of the British tabloids published that rubbish.

Many of us know that rumors from his own family members are saying he had a dianosis of Pancretic Cancer. We do not know if this is true or if he family even knew about cancer or his drug issues.

I can believe he may have been dealing with both and trying to go cold turkey since these drugs must be stopped if his organs were going bad and any treatment was coming for cancer.

I can believe that the pill was not taken as an accident. At least two band members have said he told them to go to Paisley Park and get their things out 7 days before he died because they might not be able to get them for a while.

Prince was the executor of his Dad's estate and his dad did not have a will. He knew what would happen without a will and he took the time to send out e-mails to 30 people concerning Paisley Park and put deals in place with WB and Tidal. His operation was almost complely shut down and the security cameras removed. I think he was a man living on borrowed time and not a man planning to go to rehab and go back to work.

All good points.

1. Let's say that Tyka knew he had cancer and was self-medicating in secrecy to deal with the pain... This could explain why she was not at all surprised when death came. She had to have known that it would come either by him succumbing to the illness, or, as I have said a million times before ,he would eventually end it himself. Her reaction would therefore not be unusual when you think of what she had to have known . I gather from that type of reaction, that she had prior knowledge of his usage and the risk that comes with it as in: (possible overdose). For her, it was probably more of a relief that he went out quickly and ended the suffering once and for all. She had at least (3) years to deal with knowing.

2. As to Prince going thru withdrawals... As both Rebeljuice and yourself have pointed out, there were too many signs that he was trying to quit cold turkey. This had to have been the worst thing he could have done to himself. If he had cancer, but wanted to get a handle on his addiction, the better strategy would have been to adjust the dosage(s) or change the type of medication prescribed. It's such a common thing to do that it baffles the mind that one would intentionally ignore such a common practice, or , convince yourself that none of those options would have made a difference. There is just no evidence that Prince's cognitive skills were so diminished that he could not think about that. This is why I believe that this is so intentional. Intentional as in, there is nothing else I can really do.

3. I believe as Rebel Juice stated(paraphrasing here) that he could not take anymore of the withdrawals and with reckless abandon, shoveled a number of things down. This is that "whatever happens , happens" moment.

4. There is a saying about "picking your own death". I think Prince picked his death. He had options to deal with things so differently but he chose a different path, intentionally. It's like the guy who crosses five lanes of the highway around rush hour with headphones and blinders on.

5. I just think that the people who claim he was suffering from any type of cancer should examine what is so bad about him dying in the way that he did as opposed to that long term suffering and withering away @ Paisley Park if he did in fact had cancer.

Menes, thanks to both you and Rebeljuice for these thoughtful, heartbreaking posts. May the healing begin...

The only thing that is left is to figure out if there was irreversible organ damage resulting from long term use of pain killers( and any other substances he was ingesting) or if there was a pre-existing condition that pre-dates the use of pain killers and had progressed to a terminal stage. It could be both. It does appear that his physical appearance seemed to have changed around 2013 or so but it could just be age, lighting, diet, etc. He was still moving considerably well in some shows that I have seen (post 2013-2015) so that throws me off a bit.

I looked at his entire schedule over @ the vault and I do see a gap of about (7) seven months around October-09 to May-2010 . But then a fury of shows/tours/concerts followed .I think someone mentioned that a few pages back. That also throws me off. That is a very short period of time to heal and go back to doing so many things if you had major surgery. He may have re-injured a few things which would have forced him to take even more opiates in order to perform at that level in such short order.

To do what he was doing to himself ( self-medicating) in such a manner, something was terribly off.


All Concerts - Prince Vault

This is an amazing amount of shows. Truly amazing.

rogifan said:

So now he committed suicide? And the Carver County sheriff’s office said no evidence of suicide because?

Because there was no note found, that is why.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

rogifan said:

So now he committed suicide? And the Carver County sheriff’s office said no evidence of suicide because?

Because there was no note found, that is why.

Being in the elevator was the note.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Because there was no note found, that is why.

Being in the elevator was the note.

That was enough for me but not the Medical Examiner.

ISaidLifeIsJustAGame said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Being in the elevator was the note.

That was enough for me but not the Medical Examiner.

It was enough for me.

Menes said:

The only thing that is left is to figure out if there was irreversible organ damage resulting from long term use of pain killers( and any other substances he was ingesting) or if there was a pre-existing condition that pre-dates the use of pain killers and had progressed to a terminal stage. It could be both. It does appear that his physical appearance seemed to have changed around 2013 or so but it could just be age, lighting, diet, etc. He was still moving considerably well in some shows that I have seen (post 2013-2015) so that throws me off a bit.

I looked at his entire schedule over @ the vault and I do see a gap of about (7) seven months around October-09 to May-2010 . But then a fury of shows/tours/concerts followed .I think someone mentioned that a few pages back. That also throws me off. That is a very short period of time to heal and go back to doing so many things if you had major surgery. He may have re-injured a few things which would have forced him to take even more opiates in order to perform at that level in such short order.

To do what he was doing to himself ( self-medicating) in such a manner, something was terribly off.


All Concerts - Prince Vault

This is an amazing amount of shows. Truly amazing.

We know from the Ebony article in 2009 that he had surgery of some sort because he brings it up.

We know from Billy Sparks that it was not hip replacement but hip surgery. If he had some alternative procedure it would not have taken him long to heal.

Those shows following that time material are really good and he appears to be moving well.

Sometime around 2013 is starts to not look well. In some pics his face is pudgy. I thought he looked really bad when he showed up on the View with Van Jones and something was off with his hair for a while. No one grows in Afro out that fast and the texture is so different from when he was young. Could be he was balding and just wanted to plop on a wig or something else was going on.

He looks good on the Grammies in the peach suit but his skin almost looks yellow on the American Music Awards when he was carrying the guitar. The last PR pic from Atlanta he looks horrible not even in a 90s skinny manner just like he is not even himself. I just do not see pain pills altering a person's face like that.

[Edited 1/22/18 10:06am]

laurarichardson said:

Menes said:

The only thing that is left is to figure out if there was irreversible organ damage resulting from long term use of pain killers( and any other substances he was ingesting) or if there was a pre-existing condition that pre-dates the use of pain killers and had progressed to a terminal stage. It could be both. It does appear that his physical appearance seemed to have changed around 2013 or so but it could just be age, lighting, diet, etc. He was still moving considerably well in some shows that I have seen (post 2013-2015) so that throws me off a bit.

I looked at his entire schedule over @ the vault and I do see a gap of about (7) seven months around October-09 to May-2010 . But then a fury of shows/tours/concerts followed .I think someone mentioned that a few pages back. That also throws me off. That is a very short period of time to heal and go back to doing so many things if you had major surgery. He may have re-injured a few things which would have forced him to take even more opiates in order to perform at that level in such short order.

To do what he was doing to himself ( self-medicating) in such a manner, something was terribly off.


All Concerts - Prince Vault

This is an amazing amount of shows. Truly amazing.

We know from the Ebony article in 2009 that he had surgery of some sort because he brings it up.

We know from Billy Sparks that it was not hip replacement but hip surgery. If he had some alternative procedure it would not have taken him long to heal.

Those shows following that time material are really good and he appears to be moving well.

Sometime around 2013 is starts to not look well. In some pics his face is pudgy. I thought he looked really bad when he showed up on the View with Van Jones and something was off with his hair for a while. No one grows in Afro out that fast and the texture is so different from when he was young. Go be he was balding and just wanted to plop on a wig or something else was going on.

He looks good on the Grammies in the peach suit but his skin almost looks yellow on the American Music Awards when he was carrying the guitar. The last PR pic from Atlanta he looks horrible not even in a 90s skinny manner just like he is not even himself. I just do not see pain pills altering a person's face like that.

But, LR, it could have been the cumulative effects of the pills PLUS dehydration, illness, the exhaustion of pain and stress, poor nutrition, depression , loneliness (nothing worse than feeling lonely in a crowd, the tragedy of his life)...everything, all the time...life in the fast lane....no one true love after a life of singing about love....and longing for it. RIP.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

laurarichardson said:

We know from the Ebony article in 2009 that he had surgery of some sort because he brings it up.

We know from Billy Sparks that it was not hip replacement but hip surgery. If he had some alternative procedure it would not have taken him long to heal.

Those shows following that time material are really good and he appears to be moving well.

Sometime around 2013 is starts to not look well. In some pics his face is pudgy. I thought he looked really bad when he showed up on the View with Van Jones and something was off with his hair for a while. No one grows in Afro out that fast and the texture is so different from when he was young. Go be he was balding and just wanted to plop on a wig or something else was going on.

He looks good on the Grammies in the peach suit but his skin almost looks yellow on the American Music Awards when he was carrying the guitar. The last PR pic from Atlanta he looks horrible not even in a 90s skinny manner just like he is not even himself. I just do not see pain pills altering a person's face like that.

But, LR, it could have been the cumulative effects of the pills PLUS dehydration, illness, the exhaustion of pain and stress, poor nutrition, depression , loneliness (nothing worse than feeling lonely in a crowd, the tragedy of his life)...everything, all the time...life in the fast lane....no one true love after a life of singing about love....and longing for it. RIP.

I disagree in the 90s he did not look good very skinny but the look I am talking about at the last PR pic looks like a cancer face. I have seen crack heads who did not look at bad as he did in that last pic. I will see if I can find it.

if he commited sucide.... why start up the new band and new sound and new gutiar....?

luvsexy4all said:

if he commited sucide.... why start up the new band and new sound and new gutiar....?

A decision could have been made that last week. He todl Andrian Cructhfield not to come to Atlanta for an aftershow because he was not feeling well and had to go back to his doctor. He even put the nine additional shows on hold from being annouced according to the promoter of the Atlanta show.

[Edited 1/22/18 11:31am]

luvsexy4all said:

if he commited sucide.... why start up the new band and new sound and new gutiar....?

agree. i don't see Prince committing suicide. imo it would have been against his spiritual beliefs. then again, i wasn't there and didn't know what he was fighting in his last few days. if he did commit suicide i think God will understand and love him all the same. no judgment.

the only reason i wish we could all truly know what happened is because of all the speculation, people saying he had aids, pancreatic cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, liver disease, kidney disease, he was murdered for his masters, he was poisoned by a jealous ex, and so on and on etc.

most of the speculation here at prince.org is merely... speculation. everyone has their own pet theory. true knowledge would put this to rest. but, if Prince wanted it private then so it should be.

[Edited 1/22/18 11:59am]

Menes said:

cloveringold85 said:

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Yes, that could very well be the case. But, why would Prince run to Walgreens that day if he already had his mind made up that he was just gonna take some illegal Fentanyl, and wasn't interested in any intervention? There are so many ways to look at this, and also, Prince could have been pretending to go along with the supposed intervention, knowing that he was not going to follow through with it. With that said, it leaves me back at.....why then have anything scheduled for that day? It's also a high probability that Prince knew nothing about the intervention. It almost appears like they knew something was going to happen....because, there he was, in the elevator, gone.

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Unfortunately, we will never have the answers to what happened that day and the days leading up to his untimely death.

I don't remember the exact sequence but I think that call to the Kornfelds was a last minute "hail mary" made on the day before he died. Between the 14th and the 20th, something dramatic must have taken place for them to have him fly out immediately, (qualified or not). Whoever made that call did not qualify Andrew, nor did they do any research . This doesn't surprise me because Kirk picked Dr. Schulenberg to "treat" Prince. Millions of dollars at your disposal and Kirk recommends your doctor? Why would you even go that route if you're so buttoned up with your privacy? Go figure.

Now let's just say Prince did in fact have chronic pain from (a) a terminal illness that he was going to die from, or (b) chronic long term pain from hip surgery, it would make no sense for him to attempt to eliminate the ingestion of opiates for pain relief if it's the only thing that granted him temporary relief. If he knew about the intervention , it would mean that he was willing to deal with the pain some other way. If you have pain from terminal cancer, that would probably not be up for discussion.

I think there may have been times between the 14th and the 20th where he may have tried to wean himself off of whatever it was ( cold turkey) and that had some nasty withdrawal symptoms that were cause for alarm. We are talking years of usage, so will-power is about as useless as tits on a bull at this point. I think that's why Kornfeld was called in.

Since Tyka was so close to him, when did she get wind of any of this? No one called her until after it was all over? She was preparing. Tsk.

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My thoughts, exactly. To this day, I still do not understand why they would call a doctor in LA, who has a terrible track record, instead of taking him down the road to get treatment? This defies all logic, imo., and even more so when you are dealing with a medical emergency, as they put it. The way I look at it, if you are having some med student fly all the way from California who isn't even qualified to treat anyone, much less, authorized to carry and administer drugs across state lines....that to me, does not sound like you are overly concerned for the welfare of said person (Prince).

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It also seems odd that Prince was out and about, walking around that day on the 20th, and does not appear to be in any pain.

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I understand what you are saying about will-power and withdrawal symptoms, but Dr. Kornfeld never actually saw, nor examined Prince, and his son, Andrew was not even qualified to be there. That entire scenario/set-up (whatever you want to call it), just sounds so bizarre, to say the least and I just don't feel that should be forgotten about.

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Tyka is so shady about the whole thing. I don't know if she is trying to be cute or whatever with her cryptic messages, but it's not cute at all. When someone starts talking loopy like that, they lose all credibility, imo.

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Thanks for listening to my rant, LOL

Rebeljuice said:

cloveringold85 said:

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Yes, and we keep hearing about Rheumatoid Arthritis (inflammation of joints), which is very painful. Also, Fibromyalgia (nerve damage from injury/spinal chord). It is also used to control seizures. It's possible that Prince could have had RA, which would explain why it was difficult for him to play the guitar. Same thing happened with Dolores O'Riordan; she was having trouble playing the guitar because of her back injury.

I would have to rule out RA. RA is a debilitating disease caused by the immune system attacking itself. Specifically the joints and the "lubrication" membrane between the joints. It causes severe disfigurement, swelling as well as pain around the affected joints. I have been looking closely at Princes hands in footage taken over the last few years of his life and there is no signs of RA (or indeed any other type of arthritis that causes swelling and disfigurement). It is the fingers where it typically starts (although that is not a set rule).

Fibromyalgia is a different story. Whilst it can be caused by injury, the truth is it is still a bit of a mystery. For example, paople who suffer lupus (another autoimmune disease) can suffer the effects of fibro. Unlike RA fibro is not actually a joint issue. It is the tendons around the joints that cause the pain making it feel like the joints themselves are injured. Also, unliuke RA fibro can affect someone all over their body and isnt neccessarily specific to certain areas. One common theory is that fibro can be bought on by poor sleep patterns. And whilst it is very much a very real ailment, there are suspicions that it can be very psychosematic (sp?). In other words, the more you think you have it or are in pain from it, the worse it gets. There is no swelling or disfigurement with fibro and it can come and go without warning. There is also no evidence that it causes any long term damage or shortens life (unlike RA).

If Prince had any kind of arthritis then I would opt for post traumatic arthritis. It is brought on by an old injury. Repeat hip/knee injuries in the past would have brought it on and compounded the overall injury issue. Especially if he didnt seek treatment for a long time.

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Thank you for your thorough explanation of RA. I agree -- I don't think Prince had RA.

Rebeljuice said:

Menes said:

I don't remember the exact sequence but I think that call to the Kornfelds was a last minute "hail mary" made on the day before he died. Between the 14th and the 20th, something dramatic must have taken place for them to have him fly out immediately, (qualified or not). Whoever made that call did not qualify Andrew, nor did they do any research . This doesn't surprise me because Kirk picked Dr. Schulenberg to "treat" Prince. Millions of dollars at your disposal and Kirk recommends your doctor? Why would you even go that route if you're so buttoned up with your privacy? Go figure.

Now let's just say Prince did in fact have chronic pain from (a) a terminal illness that he was going to die from, or (b) chronic long term pain from hip surgery, it would make no sense for him to attempt to eliminate the ingestion of opiates for pain relief if it's the only thing that granted him temporary relief. If he knew about the intervention , it would mean that he was willing to deal with the pain some other way. If you have pain from terminal cancer, that would probably not be up for discussion.

I think there may have been times between the 14th and the 20th where he may have tried to wean himself off of whatever it was ( cold turkey) and that had some nasty withdrawal symptoms that were cause for alarm. We are talking years of usage, so will-power is about as useless as tits on a bull at this point. I think that's why Kornfeld was called in.

Since Tyka was so close to him, when did she get wind of any of this? No one called her until after it was all over? She was preparing. Tsk.

Do you remember what Tyka's husband said just after his death? He said Prince had been awake for several days (cant remember the exact amount). His comment was then jumped on and squashed once people had time to get their story straight.

I believe he was awake for days on end after the Moline incident. I think he was in the midst of cold turkey and was not handling it well. Not sleeping. Not eating. Erratic behaviour such as throwing a party at home when he should be resting etc.

I imagine lots of visits to the toilet and dehydration. So much so that a visit to the doctor to test hydration levels and organ functions. Perhaps those initial tests allerted his "friends" to the severity of the problem resulting in the intervention.

Drips, tests, agitation, erratic behaviour, Walgreens visits for non prescribed remedies for vomiting, sleep etc. It all points to a man trying cold turkey on his own, going crazy with the effects of it and the lack of sleep. So much so that he cant take any more and reaches for a pill that he knows will take the edge off...

...."Just one more before I get help tomorrow"...




...."or maybe one of these and put a stop to all this drama once and for all?"...

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I think you just painted a perfect picture of what Prince was going through in his final days.

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The part I don't get is, if he was in the hospital on IV and getting whatever tests, why would he just go back to PP? Why not get him into treatment ASAP? I mean, the people in his circle must have seen this going on for quite some time. It's just unfortunate that Prince was too late in getting help.

where do the JW's stand on suicide????

luvsexy4all said:

where do the JW's stand on suicide????

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2002447

XxAxX said:

luvsexy4all said:

if he commited sucide.... why start up the new band and new sound and new gutiar....?

agree. i don't see Prince committing suicide. imo it would have been against his spiritual beliefs. then again, i wasn't there and didn't know what he was fighting in his last few days. if he did commit suicide i think God will understand and love him all the same. no judgment.

the only reason i wish we could all truly know what happened is because of all the speculation, people saying he had aids, pancreatic cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, liver disease, kidney disease, he was murdered for his masters, he was poisoned by a jealous ex, and so on and on etc.

most of the speculation here at prince.org is merely... speculation. everyone has their own pet theory. true knowledge would put this to rest. but, if Prince wanted it private then so it should be.

[Edited 1/22/18 11:59am]

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I agree. To add; there is no shame in having a terminal disease and if that was the case with Prince, I don't see what would be so secretive about it. There is no shame in someone battling cancer. The fact that his family is not saying a word leaves us to believe there is something more to the story.....

cloveringold85 said:

cloveringold85 said:

XxAxX said:

agree. i don't see Prince committing suicide. imo it would have been against his spiritual beliefs. then again, i wasn't there and didn't know what he was fighting in his last few days. if he did commit suicide i think God will understand and love him all the same. no judgment.

the only reason i wish we could all truly know what happened is because of all the speculation, people saying he had aids, pancreatic cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, liver disease, kidney disease, he was murdered for his masters, he was poisoned by a jealous ex, and so on and on etc.

most of the speculation here at prince.org is merely... speculation. everyone has their own pet theory. true knowledge would put this to rest. but, if Prince wanted it private then so it should be.

[Edited 1/22/18 11:59am]

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I agree. To add; there is no shame in having a terminal disease and if that was the case with Prince, I don't see what would be so secretive about it. There is no shame in someone battling cancer. The fact that his family is not saying a word leaves us to believe there is something more to the story.....

old thread from prince.org called 'Prince's fascination with death' wherein people talk about all of the times his death figures in his work. http://prince.org/msg/7/272332?pr

cloveringold85 said:

Rebeljuice said:

Do you remember what Tyka's husband said just after his death? He said Prince had been awake for several days (cant remember the exact amount). His comment was then jumped on and squashed once people had time to get their story straight.

I believe he was awake for days on end after the Moline incident. I think he was in the midst of cold turkey and was not handling it well. Not sleeping. Not eating. Erratic behaviour such as throwing a party at home when he should be resting etc.

I imagine lots of visits to the toilet and dehydration. So much so that a visit to the doctor to test hydration levels and organ functions. Perhaps those initial tests allerted his "friends" to the severity of the problem resulting in the intervention.

Drips, tests, agitation, erratic behaviour, Walgreens visits for non prescribed remedies for vomiting, sleep etc. It all points to a man trying cold turkey on his own, going crazy with the effects of it and the lack of sleep. So much so that he cant take any more and reaches for a pill that he knows will take the edge off...

...."Just one more before I get help tomorrow"...




...."or maybe one of these and put a stop to all this drama once and for all?"...

.

I think you just painted a perfect picture of what Prince was going through in his final days.

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The part I don't get is, if he was in the hospital on IV and getting whatever tests, why would he just go back to PP? Why not get him into treatment ASAP? I mean, the people in his circle must have seen this going on for quite some time. It's just unfortunate that Prince was too late in getting help.

Maybe there was nothing else that could be done. We only know about dehydration from a unknown source. We have no idea what was going on in the hospital.

You also have to remember even if he just had joint pain it is not like getting off of pain pills will make the pain go away.