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Reply #30 posted 01/08/18 12:03am

bonatoc

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rogifan said:

PeteSilas said:

subjective, matter of taste, i think both of them had lots of room for improvement. Hendrix was sloppy live, Prince wasn't perfect either but no one is. In terms of impact, legacy with the instrument, no one comes close to Hendrix, so much so that people forget all the other stuff he did well(showman,songwriter, producer).

I agree with subjective. For example I always felt Jimmy Page was a sloppy player. Same with Neil Young. Yet many swear they’re both brilliant. Sorry I don’t get the brilliance in this. Sounds awful to me.



Well of course if you're going to give a bad example.
Take this:





The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #31 posted 01/08/18 12:15am

bonatoc

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I don't understand everyone chiming in this "apple vs. orange" issue.
Total different era, completely different approach.
Jimi, Led Zep, Neil Young and others were going for organic.

Prince was tight. He's the best rhythm guitarist ever.

But here's a good example of "sloppy" Prince, giving Jimi a run for his money.

And if you insist on comparing the virtuoso poses, here, my dear.

[Edited 1/8/18 0:20am]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #32 posted 01/08/18 4:13am

databank

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PeteSilas said:

databank said:

What appears to me is that Prince was a better guitar player in his later years than in the 80's, despite what some hysterions have claimed. Similarly, I find ONA much superior in terms of piano than Intimate Moments, again despite what same hysterions claimed back in 2002. Now I don't play any instrument so I can only judge from a listeners' perspective, and I'm open to any guitar or piano player (as opposed to non musicians) challenging my claim.

Prince was better as he got older, he was a better singer too and as much as people might disagree I think he got cleaner in his production. It's the same for a lot of artists though, their seminal work was done comparatively haphazardly and with limited means. Elvis' sun sessions were about as primitive as moder music gets but it's still better than most of the stuff that came after. But by the 70s' elvis' productions were far superior even if the product wasn't. there's an interview with him laughing about how "funny" the early records sound.

He definitely got much cleaner in his production (and indeed most artists follow that path as they age). Beginning with D&P his albums sound like they've been recorded in real studios, as opposed to his basement lol

Was it for better or worse, it's up to anyone to decide. But what Prince lost in spontaneity, he gained in sophistication.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #33 posted 01/08/18 5:17am

coldasice

PeteSilas said:

morris hayes said something interesting, he said steve vai had Morris give prince a guitar or something because he was his hero, steve vai is technically better than both, he once said he was better player than jimi, not in an egotistical manner, but he said stated he was only following a style that jimi pioneered. Steve's awesome and humble.



purplerabbithole said:


true. Jimmy was a surprisingly good songwriter. He was a guitar playing innovator. But at 27, Prince was a better singer, dancer, piano player (I assuming) , songwriter, and was a pretty damn good guitarist.





lonelyalien said:



Thats true.




[Edited 1/6/18 12:51pm]


[Edited 1/6/18 12:51pm]




Technically better at shredding maybe. Hand him that Benson Epiphone and lets here some Jazz. Technically better? No way...just because Prince did most of his solos in that weird mixolydian scale doesn’t mean he lacked in tech. Hendrix was the sloppiest guitar player ever, but he gets a pass for his innovation. Sometimes he hit cringeworthy notes. Especially at 27.
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Reply #34 posted 01/08/18 5:22am

coldasice

rogifan said:

PeteSilas said:

morris hayes said something interesting, he said steve vai had Morris give prince a guitar or something because he was his hero, steve vai is technically better than both, he once said he was better player than jimi, not in an egotistical manner, but he said stated he was only following a style that jimi pioneered. Steve's awesome and humble.



purplerabbithole said:


true. Jimmy was a surprisingly good songwriter. He was a guitar playing innovator. But at 27, Prince was a better singer, dancer, piano player (I assuming) , songwriter, and was a pretty damn good guitarist.





lonelyalien said:



Thats true.




[Edited 1/6/18 12:51pm]


[Edited 1/6/18 12:51pm]




Yep he said guitar was a signature Vai 8-string and when he gave it Prince looked at it and replied: “I can do it with 6”. lol

At 27 Drums were his standout. Earlier from the beginning to 1999 it was Bass by 30 guitar. Although I believe his bass writing was the best of his generation through Lovesexy
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Reply #35 posted 01/08/18 5:24am

coldasice

smokeverbs said:

Jimi is The King. Prince is in his court though.



For me, it basically goes


Hendrix


Page


Prince



You are free to disagree.


Disagree, maybe at 24. By 27 Hendrix was wasted. Some of those boots are cringeworthy. His studio stuff was fine, but he wouldn’t release an album. He’d lost his confidence
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Reply #36 posted 01/08/18 6:35am

rogifan

Prince still had it up until the very end.

https://www.facebook.com/...tion=group
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #37 posted 01/08/18 6:38am

rogifan

coldasice said:

rogifan said:


Yep he said guitar was a signature Vai 8-string and when he gave it Prince looked at it and replied: “I can do it with 6”. lol

At 27 Drums were his standout. Earlier from the beginning to 1999 it was Bass by 30 guitar. Although I believe his bass writing was the best of his generation through Lovesexy

On a podcast last year Scottie Baldwin said if he had to pick Prince’s signature instrument it would be piano not guitar. Interesting.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #38 posted 01/08/18 6:40am

rogifan

bonatoc said:



rogifan said:


PeteSilas said:

subjective, matter of taste, i think both of them had lots of room for improvement. Hendrix was sloppy live, Prince wasn't perfect either but no one is. In terms of impact, legacy with the instrument, no one comes close to Hendrix, so much so that people forget all the other stuff he did well(showman,songwriter, producer).



I agree with subjective. For example I always felt Jimmy Page was a sloppy player. Same with Neil Young. Yet many swear they’re both brilliant. Sorry I don’t get the brilliance in this. Sounds awful to me.



Well of course if you're going to give a bad example.
Take this:







True I did give one of the worst examples there. But I still personally feel more often than not he was pretty sloppy.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #39 posted 01/08/18 10:16am

Stimpy

Prince--hands down.

And I say that as a 25 year player who has studied and stolen from both.

It isnt about technique, where each of them excel, it is abouty MELODIC SENSE -- pure and simple.

And here P takes a backseat ONLY to Miles in this last Century.

Hendrix gets the nod for innovation on the guitar to be sure--in his day it was MUCH harder to squeeze tone and effects out of full stack and a Strat.

But where MUSICALITY (and MUSICOLOGY) is concerned Prince smokes Hendrix and, frankly, everybody else who ever played the guitar.

How many other instruments can the shredders play?

That tells it.

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Reply #40 posted 01/08/18 10:34am

PeteSilas

reiterating my subjective theory, there was a poster on her about a year ago who said Hendrix and a bunch of other guitarists made prince look like a first year player. I'll say this, i think Prince did pass jimi because he had more years to improve, by the time of the hall of fame performance, he had filled the one chink in his armor that i could see, that was i thought his playing didn't have the same passion and emotion that Jimi's did, well that performance was technically brilliant as well as passionate, still one of the best, if not the best live guitar performance I've seen, all things considered.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #41 posted 01/08/18 1:47pm

twinnies

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Prince DEFINITELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The man was a genious guitar player.

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Reply #42 posted 01/08/18 1:54pm

NorthC

Stimpy said:

Prince--hands down.



And I say that as a 25 year player who has studied and stolen from both.



It isnt about technique, where each of them excel, it is abouty MELODIC SENSE -- pure and simple.



And here P takes a backseat ONLY to Miles in this last Century.



Hendrix gets the nod for innovation on the guitar to be sure--in his day it was MUCH harder to squeeze tone and effects out of full stack and a Strat.



But where MUSICALITY (and MUSICOLOGY) is concerned Prince smokes Hendrix and, frankly, everybody else who ever played the guitar.



How many other instruments can the shredders play?



That tells it.






Okay. Post your version of Machine Gun. I'm waiting... bored2
Never try to discourage thinking, for you are sure to succeed.
Bertrand Russell
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Reply #43 posted 01/08/18 2:57pm

Genesia

avatar

bonatoc said:

I don't understand everyone chiming in this "apple vs. orange" issue.
Total different era, completely different approach.
Jimi, Led Zep, Neil Young and others were going for organic.

Prince was tight. He's the best rhythm guitarist ever.

But here's a good example of "sloppy" Prince, giving Jimi a run for his money.

And if you insist on comparing the virtuoso poses, here, my dear.


Why are you trying to kill me? faint


[Edited 1/8/18 14:57pm]

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #44 posted 01/08/18 5:41pm

chrisslope9

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Jimi was better than Prince at age 27. Prince used a lot of effects and tricks to make him sound like a better player than he actually was in the '80s. Not that he wasn't great but he was no Hendrix when it came to solo's. Prince's playing really took off in the 90's and his playing got better and better for the remainder of his life. When he passed his playing went way beyond Hendrix in every way .

[Edited 1/8/18 17:43pm]

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Reply #45 posted 01/08/18 8:14pm

joyinrepetitio
n

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All I have to say is Prince killed it with "I'm Yours" way before he was 27 as well as "Bambi.". At 27 Jimi might have been marginally better than Prince, but Prince skills improved by leaps and bounds. Honestly I feel we never saw his best. He gave us glimpses of his greatness like at the RRHOF. Jimi could have improved too but we'll never know. Both 2 of the greatest to pick up the axe!
__________________________________________________
2 words falling between the drops and the moans of his condition
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Reply #46 posted 01/08/18 9:16pm

PeteSilas

coldasice said:

PeteSilas said:

morris hayes said something interesting, he said steve vai had Morris give prince a guitar or something because he was his hero, steve vai is technically better than both, he once said he was better player than jimi, not in an egotistical manner, but he said stated he was only following a style that jimi pioneered. Steve's awesome and humble.

Technically better at shredding maybe. Hand him that Benson Epiphone and lets here some Jazz. Technically better? No way...just because Prince did most of his solos in that weird mixolydian scale doesn’t mean he lacked in tech. Hendrix was the sloppiest guitar player ever, but he gets a pass for his innovation. Sometimes he hit cringeworthy notes. Especially at 27.

definitely better, he thought so too, he said that his 80's guitar playing embarrassed him. But, even if his technical playing hadn't improved, the feel and emotion when he got older was certainly better, as it should be with any aged musician. There was a story about a kid, don't know if it was true, but he played the blues, a couple musicians were talking about him and how perfect he played, the other guy said, "yea, but he needs to go out and get his heart broken". Jimi's playing surpassed everyone in my book as far as emotion, everyone. It's true that Jimi was a lot less disciplined and a lot less functional in the world than Prince was, that is why he died and Prince had the extra 30 years to improve. Also, i don't think everyone gives jimi a pass, i've seen it written here on the org "no thanks, he's too sloppy".

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #47 posted 01/08/18 11:05pm

bonatoc

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chrisslope9 said:

Jimi was better than Prince at age 27. Prince used a lot of effects and tricks to make him sound like a better player than he actually was in the '80s. Not that he wasn't great but he was no Hendrix when it came to solo's. Prince's playing really took off in the 90's and his playing got better and better for the remainder of his life. When he passed his playing went way beyond Hendrix in every way .

[Edited 1/8/18 17:43pm]


Oh yes, and Jimi achieved the wah-wah effect by plugging his strat in his ass and flexing his buttocks.
He also had two midgets under his cape whose role was to sing what he was playing in real-time, one for the octave above, one for the octave below.
His fuzz tones were achieved by shaving himself every morning above his wide open amp cabinet.

Oh yes, these otherwordly solos we've been blessed by the Urn.

Easy on the reefer my friend.


The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #48 posted 01/09/18 4:49am

rogifan

joyinrepetition said:

All I have to say is Prince killed it with "I'm Yours" way before he was 27 as well as "Bambi.". At 27 Jimi might have been marginally better than Prince, but Prince skills improved by leaps and bounds. Honestly I feel we never saw his best. He gave us glimpses of his greatness like at the RRHOF. Jimi could have improved too but we'll never know. Both 2 of the greatest to pick up the axe!

I have video of all 3 nights of 2011 North Sea Jazz. Night 2 is some of Prince’s best work on guitar IMO. Here’s a few examples (the video I have has better camera work but is unfortunately no longer online):

http://www.dailymotion.co...eo/x498rzj
http://www.dailymotion.co...eo/x46piy2
https://www.dailymotion.c...eo/x48y5vz

And of course Stratus/All Shook Up at Montreux 2009:
http://videos.sapo.pt/skE...CmrCBQSZsB

And Creep at Coachella:


Of course there’s a lot more than this. I think the RRHOF performance is often listed as his best because it’s so difficult to find anything else online, especially on YouTube.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #49 posted 01/09/18 11:47am

funkaholic1972

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NorthC said:

Stimpy said:

Prince--hands down.

And I say that as a 25 year player who has studied and stolen from both.

It isnt about technique, where each of them excel, it is abouty MELODIC SENSE -- pure and simple.

And here P takes a backseat ONLY to Miles in this last Century.

Hendrix gets the nod for innovation on the guitar to be sure--in his day it was MUCH harder to squeeze tone and effects out of full stack and a Strat.

But where MUSICALITY (and MUSICOLOGY) is concerned Prince smokes Hendrix and, frankly, everybody else who ever played the guitar.

How many other instruments can the shredders play?

That tells it.

Okay. Post your version of Machine Gun. I'm waiting... bored2

falloff

RIP Prince: thank U 4 a funky Time!
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Reply #50 posted 01/09/18 12:20pm

purpleshadow

JorisE73 said:

At 27 Hendrix. But Prince surpassed him in later years and did more awesome solos.

that's how i feel. Prince also played more styles than Hendrix.

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Reply #51 posted 01/09/18 1:22pm

stpaisios

Prince shares more with Marc Bolan than Hendrix, as a guitar player, glam appearance etc. and Prince was right, they compare him to Hendrix only cuz his was black. First, Prince aint primary a guitar player but a composer, arranger and producer. Second, ppl wanna push Prince into some virtuoso or greatest guitar players lists with Jeff Beck, Clapton, Hendrix, or whatever I dont mind that lists, they are overrated in my book. The only musican and guitar player who undestood Prince is Pete Townshed.

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Reply #52 posted 01/09/18 1:25pm

PeteSilas

prince was compared to prince because he took so much from him and because he was black. when he used to deny the influence completely it was ludicrous because he did the mouth thing with the guitar that jimi did, wore the boes, took the colore purple etc.., etc.., As he got older he got less big head. but what was true was that he was more influenced by santana, no doubt about that.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #53 posted 01/09/18 4:39pm

lonelyalien

According to rolling stone magazine prince isnt even as good as keith richards lol.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwik...sOfAllTime


I'm just like everybody else I need love.....and water.
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Reply #54 posted 01/09/18 5:26pm

PeteSilas

lonelyalien said:

According to rolling stone magazine prince isnt even as good as keith richards lol.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwik...sOfAllTime


those list usually take in a lot of other criteria (influence, originality). Chuck Berry once stated he was maybe in the 50th percentile as far as guitarists, I'd say he's a lot better than that but he isn't a good a player as he's often rated, neither are a lot of the older guys on those lists. A guy like Scotty Moore was hugely influential but without his Elvis connection no one would remember him. Fact is, there are tons and tons of great guitarists, it's the reason i never liked the instrument, what's the point spending all your time learning something that all these other guys can do as well or better?

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #55 posted 01/09/18 6:03pm

Germanegro

HENDRIX WAS ON TOP WITH HIS GUITAR INNOVATION. Prince was awesome in his own right but a follower still at 27 on guitar, IMO.

>

Rogifan, your comment about Page is so over the hills and far away:

rogifan said:

PeteSilas said:

subjective, matter of taste, i think both of them had lots of room for improvement. Hendrix was sloppy live, Prince wasn't perfect either but no one is. In terms of impact, legacy with the instrument, no one comes close to Hendrix, so much so that people forget all the other stuff he did well(showman,songwriter, producer).

I agree with subjective. For example I always felt Jimmy Page was a sloppy player. Same with Neil Young. Yet many swear they’re both brilliant. Sorry I don’t get the brilliance in this. Sounds awful to me.

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Reply #56 posted 01/09/18 6:13pm

rogifan

Sorry I’m sticking with my Jimmy Page was sloppy opinion. Btw I say this as someone who owns Zeppelin’s box set and thinks John Bonham was the greatest drummer ever. In fact I believe Prince once said (I’m paraphrasing) that Page was cool but needed Bonham behind him to be great.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #57 posted 01/09/18 6:33pm

Germanegro

^^^

Yes there are plenty of documented sloppy playing (say no to drugs!), but Page could be tight, too, do classical runs fwiw and was most brilliant at rock improvisational lines. I think Bonham can be left out of the equation of guitar playing, no? Led Zeppelin the band used each other to be as good a band as they were, though, true.

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Reply #58 posted 01/09/18 7:58pm

chrisslope9

avatar

bonatoc said:

chrisslope9 said:

Jimi was better than Prince at age 27. Prince used a lot of effects and tricks to make him sound like a better player than he actually was in the '80s. Not that he wasn't great but he was no Hendrix when it came to solo's. Prince's playing really took off in the 90's and his playing got better and better for the remainder of his life. When he passed his playing went way beyond Hendrix in every way .

[Edited 1/8/18 17:43pm]


Oh yes, and Jimi achieved the wah-wah effect by plugging his strat in his ass and flexing his buttocks.
He also had two midgets under his cape whose role was to sing what he was playing in real-time, one for the octave above, one for the octave below.
His fuzz tones were achieved by shaving himself every morning above his wide open amp cabinet.

Oh yes, these otherwordly solos we've been blessed by the Urn.

Easy on the reefer my friend.


Sorry brother but Prince flanged and chorused his way through every solo in the 80's. Prince is by far my hero of hero's musically but he was nowhere near the player Hendrix was at age 27. He relyed ofetn on the same runs for solos throughout the 80's . As I said, something changed in the 90's and he got better and better. It's true Jimi used a lot of wah and distortion but not even close to the set up Prince was using on the SOTT and Lovesexy tours. And Jimi would often play things straight which Prince rarely ever did , even towards the end.

[Edited 1/9/18 20:00pm]

[Edited 1/9/18 20:02pm]

[Edited 1/9/18 20:06pm]

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Reply #59 posted 01/09/18 8:47pm

coldasice

chrisslope9 said:

Jimi was better than Prince at age 27. Prince used a lot of effects and tricks to make him sound like a better player than he actually was in the '80s. Not that he wasn't great but he was no Hendrix when it came to solo's. Prince's playing really took off in the 90's and his playing got better and better for the remainder of his life. When he passed his playing went way beyond Hendrix in every way .

[Edited 1/8/18 17:43pm]


Ok I agree here...Hendrix had 1 pedal in his prime and a wah. Live of course he toyed with octave pedals and things in the studio. Prince used so many effects in the 80’s to sound better. In the early 90’s he could use the effects so well I don’t think of it as cheating. By the 2000’s he could play at top level with or without effects.
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