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Thread started 12/31/17 4:41pm

purplerabbitho
le

Can we talk about Prince's paranoia?

Healthy skepticism and even religious conviction or imaginative What-if philosophical discussions..those things I think are okay -- especially if open discussions occur with people with more moderate takes on things. A little eccentricity and imagination never hurt an artist. But I do also believe that at-times Prince did have erious problems with paranoia (although in some ways he seemed to be coming out of it.). I don't think he had it all the time; but enough to be a problem. Chemtrails are not necessarily a symptom of mental health issues but considering all the different ways in which P seemed paranoid, I was relieved to hear a later version of Dreamer without the chemtrails stuff left in..; I also was relieved he was learning about inner workings of the government from Van JOnes. THis is much better than thinking that aliens are running the government. But paranoia remained a problem in other ways.


SOmetimes, these conspiracy theories probably just were something to chat about..(beliefs in alternate universes etc). Other times I do believe it was crippling and unhealthy, may have contributed to the end of important relationships in his life, may have caused him to not sign a will, to sabotage his career in terms of online exposure, to not get appropriate treatment for himself)

Chick Huntsberry may have been telling the truth when talked to that tabloid about P's paranoia 30 years ago. He wasn't the only one to call P paranoid.


I just read an article about chemtrails and the writer contended that paranoia about chemtrails actually crossed over political lines. The article also stated that scientists have supplied a ton of evidence to combat it and it still doesn't work to lessen fears. The article stated that these beliefs are a weird combination of somewhat healthy skepticism and unhealthy religious beliefs in cults etc. It is not indication of a lack of intelligence . A belief in chemtrails in of itself is not mental illness. But P at various times believed in almost every conspiracy theory out there.


kind of sad because I think in some ways he seemd to be coming out of some of his paranoia. (less cult-like relgious beliefs, more open-minded about working with people of political backgrounds, supporting grassroot movements, less controlling of women in his life etc.) Unfortunately, I do think he maintained some of the paranoia and I think it might have contributed to other self-destrutive behavior (online paranoia, not trusting doctors enough for his health problem, hiding his drug problem from those who loved him, and no will.) His views were not set in stone however he seemed more able to be reasonable when his paranoia lessened or wasn't on his mind--I suspect.

[Edited 12/31/17 16:45pm]

[Edited 12/31/17 16:49pm]

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Reply #1 posted 12/31/17 7:32pm

2045RadicalMat
tZ

It happens when you think.

And it's not paranoia. It's a logical conclusion based upon viewed and experienced stimuli. ..his ART was a rejection of such. ...so therefore. ...it was often idealistic.

If life reflected any of his art, his life's mission would have been a success. I think it has worked to a certain degree.

But paranoia?

I think these concerns were realistic and showed their face when he got a bit older. Instead of vague aphorisms he began attacking institutions and living Moreno on a mission against injustices. Dont know if it all tied into his conversion to JW (*they I'm sure, well tell you they know the answers) instead of a result of his reflective prior experiences and expounding (take the lyrics from 7 for example)

Anyways. I don't believe he was paranoid. People come at you from everywhere. Friend foe, love, lover, husband, wife etc.
"Damn Dolores, pick another subject, please...introduce the carpet to something other than your knees...."
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Reply #2 posted 12/31/17 9:15pm

laurarichardso
n

purplerabbithole said:

Healthy skepticism and even religious conviction or imaginative What-if philosophical discussions..those things I think are okay -- especially if open discussions occur with people with more moderate takes on things. A little eccentricity and imagination never hurt an artist. But I do also believe that at-times Prince did have erious problems with paranoia (although in some ways he seemed to be coming out of it.). I don't think he had it all the time; but enough to be a problem. Chemtrails are not necessarily a symptom of mental health issues but considering all the different ways in which P seemed paranoid, I was relieved to hear a later version of Dreamer without the chemtrails stuff left in..; I also was relieved he was learning about inner workings of the government from Van JOnes. THis is much better than thinking that aliens are running the government. But paranoia remained a problem in other ways.




SOmetimes, these conspiracy theories probably just were something to chat about..(beliefs in alternate universes etc). Other times I do believe it was crippling and unhealthy, may have contributed to the end of important relationships in his life, may have caused him to not sign a will, to sabotage his career in terms of online exposure, to not get appropriate treatment for himself)


Chick Huntsberry may have been telling the truth when talked to that tabloid about P's paranoia 30 years ago. He wasn't the only one to call P paranoid.




I just read an article about chemtrails and the writer contended that paranoia about chemtrails actually crossed over political lines. The article also stated that scientists have supplied a ton of evidence to combat it and it still doesn't work to lessen fears. The article stated that these beliefs are a weird combination of somewhat healthy skepticism and unhealthy religious beliefs in cults etc. It is not indication of a lack of intelligence . A belief in chemtrails in of itself is not mental illness. But P at various times believed in almost every conspiracy theory out there.




kind of sad because I think in some ways he seemd to be coming out of some of his paranoia. (less cult-like relgious beliefs, more open-minded about working with people of political backgrounds, supporting grassroot movements, less controlling of women in his life etc.) Unfortunately, I do think he maintained some of the paranoia and I think it might have contributed to other self-destrutive behavior (online paranoia, not trusting doctors enough for his health problem, hiding his drug problem from those who loved him, and no will.) His views were not set in stone however he seemed more able to be reasonable when his paranoia lessened or wasn't on his mind--I suspect.










[Edited 12/31/17 16:45pm]

[Edited 12/31/17 16:49pm]


—Look at the crazy shit his associates have done since he passed. He was paranoid for a reason.
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Reply #3 posted 12/31/17 10:13pm

purplerabbitho
le

There is healthy skepticism, a fascination with conspiracy theories (and believing they might be true but not assuming that they are) and being disallusioned with the flaws of institutions and systems.

then there is believing quite a few theories and reading several books on them, isolating yourself (or at least compartmentalizing yourself to the point of being not completely knowable), reading David Icke, joining a religious cult, not trusting doctors who are taking care of your wife, saying things are in god's hands, not getting proper medical treatment, not voting, obsessing over the end of the world (as in several of his songs in the 80's), having to control every scenario, over-romanticing relationships and then pulling out when things got too real, not secure enough to be completel honest with people, living in a bubble of regiment and routine, wearing decorative "armour" everyday to work, using humor to avoid openness, having several people using the word paranoid to describe you (Chaka Khan, Washington, Morris Hayes), having anxiety around people he didn't know, being described as shy and uncomfortable in a room of more than 4 or 5 people he didn't know (Marylou Bardouex interview), relying a bit too much on his rock n roll image/ stunts, not allowing cell phones around you, wearing glasses in public a bit too frequently etc...I am framing these things in the most negative way admittedly but Prince did seem like he had some issues with paranoia (even if half of this stuff is true).


Some paranoia I understand due to his fame. Maybe having death threats and people trying to climb your fence exasperated it. But I think it was a bit much and it kind of breaks my heart. People are lucky he got out and about at all and revealed himself occassionally and had quite a few casual friendships with women, .but the man was cryptic even with his friends. It is a testament to him that he could be gregarious, charming, and charismatic at all, but I think it took effort. Andre Cymone just talked about how Prince modeled himself off of tv shows and was a pop culture junkie (this in and of itself doesn't mean he needed to develope a persona, but its funny that his pimp walk came from tv and not just directly from Andre's brothers. ) But I do think Prince might have had a problem with paranoia and/or social anxiety. On stage it seemed gone though. he was a master of his domain. It is quite extraordinary how hard this man worked to find a way to reach out but still guard himself. As a businessman, musician, and lover, Prince ws fearless...in other aspects of his life, there were issues with paranoia/anxiety that I think tormented him.

[Edited 12/31/17 22:31pm]

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Reply #4 posted 01/01/18 12:53am

Strive

It crossed the line for me in that deleted Ebony(?) interview where he talked about a former employee's life mission was to steal from the vault and release all his music.

Conspiracy and thinking a different way isn't that strange. Having a jumbled train of thought and rambling about how people are after you is a whole nother thang.
no yesterday or tomorrow, no better remedy for sorrow
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Reply #5 posted 01/01/18 1:00am

thedance

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the media was against Prince especially after the "We are the world" incident in the mid-80s, when he, Prince, (wisely) chose, right denied to not support that VERY crappy MJ/Lionel Ritchie-song..

the media made him look like a freak, trashed him, back then, and very ofter afterwards..

I would have some paranoia as well, wouldn't trust everyone - if this had happened to me..

Prince, in this way he was healthy imho.. nod

Prince 4Ever. heart
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Reply #6 posted 01/01/18 6:46am

purplerabbitho
le

I forgot about that one. Poor Prince. You add that to my list of concerns earlier in the thread. Prince had his issues with paranoia. From that interview. Prince also stated that he thought he might fear for his life. The reality is that his paranoia might have led to his death---sad irony.

Strive said:

It crossed the line for me in that deleted Ebony(?) interview where he talked about a former employee's life mission was to steal from the vault and release all his music. Conspiracy and thinking a different way isn't that strange. Having a jumbled train of thought and rambling about how people are after you is a whole nother thang.

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Reply #7 posted 01/01/18 6:49am

purplerabbitho
le

Some paranoia is understandable considering the way people reacted to him, But there is a degree of paranoia that I think becomes crippling and indicative mental health issues. His problem may have always been there but intensified. I remember someone who worked with him in the beginning saying that they were later surprised that he was able to be such a star (not becuase of his lack of talent) becuase he was so "skittish".

thedance said:

the media was against Prince especially after the "We are the world" incident in the mid-80s, when he, Prince, (wisely) chose, right denied to not support that VERY crappy MJ/Lionel Ritchie-song..

the media made him look like a freak, trashed him, back then, and very ofter afterwards..

I would have some paranoia as well, wouldn't trust everyone - if this had happened to me..

Prince, in this way he was healthy imho.. nod

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Reply #8 posted 01/01/18 10:41am

PeteSilas

first, let me say that i don't go along with everyone else and what they think, second I will say that this whole society is paranoid. No one trusts each other and as I always tell people "for good reason" our society produces greedy, envious, selfish, lazy people, not the kind of people for a solid support system. this paranoia i'm talking about I see all the damn time, I've lost customers because they thought I took something from them and even have confronted them about it. I had one recently who someone tried to rip off 38,000, a lot of money sure, but.., i had nothing to do with it. fuck em.

now, on to prince and black people, black people as well as my own people (an myself too) are paranoid even more than your average white american. Can you understand why? maybe a couple hundred years of slavery, genocide, jim crow laws on and on have made us like that don't you think? In my case, I'm paranoid and I know it but i have to be like that because I have to see problems coming. I always tell people when they say i'm paranoid, "they told Malcolm X he was paranoid too and you see what happened to him". all paranoia isn't without merit. However, I require some proof when I hear some of the shit black people and my own people say. I'm not ready to believe in chemtrails if the shit makes no scientific sense, I'm not ready to believe everything the elderly Dick Gregory said where everything was a goddamned conspiracy and I'm not yet ready to accept Prince was murdered as many black people insist. So, Prince had the cultural paranoia that isn't that uncommon and maybe a little more from whatever was going on in his head, the one that got me was the lady who said that prince was complaining about the barcodes on his clothes returned from the cleaners, that was wierd but how many stories like that have we heard? we got chick's stories but chick was on coke and needed money, no one else came out with those kinds of stories until after he died, so how bad could it have been? Another thing, artists of his stature are usually paranoid for some reason, michael thought they were after him, bruce lee was horribly paranoid at the end, elvis was too, they really needed to worry about what they were doing TO THEMSELVES more than anything. Just like i told a man the other day who complained about schizophrenics being free to roam the streets "people need to worry more about the stupid shit they are doing killing themselves".

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #9 posted 01/01/18 12:35pm

Angelsoncrack

avatar

Prince's paranoia is certainly a hard one to pin down. The only logical explination I have is that due to his situation or personality he just had an easily manipulated mind. But in other ways he didnt? Like I say it's quite odd.

But he did seem overly pre-occupied with conspiracy theories in the latter half of his life, for what reason we will never know. I wouldn't really say the stuff with 1999 and the world ending was a very uncommon or strange thing of its time. The threat of nuclear war and the millenium was on a lot of people's minds by that point.

✿Prince and lawsuits. Still a better love-story than Twilight. ✿

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Reply #10 posted 01/01/18 12:45pm

PeteSilas

Angelsoncrack said:

Prince's paranoia is certainly a hard one to pin down. The only logical explination I have is that due to his situation or personality he just had an easily manipulated mind. But in other ways he didnt? Like I say it's quite odd.

But he did seem overly pre-occupied with conspiracy theories in the latter half of his life, for what reason we will never know. I wouldn't really say the stuff with 1999 and the world ending was a very uncommon or strange thing of its time. The threat of nuclear war and the millenium was on a lot of people's minds by that point.

that's something that not a lot of people mention, that for such a maverick and a strong rebellious man, he sure was swayed easily by certain people who'd come around. that's not unusual in itself but for what we know about prince, it's strange.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #11 posted 01/01/18 12:46pm

Polo1026

Honestly, a single line in a song about chemtrails is a silly thing to use as an indicator of paranoia. He had an entire song about Ghosts, there's no scientific evidence they exist, right? Can 'Others here with Us' be used as a thesis for paranoia? Some lines are designed simply to make you think and force you to ask questions, not to be representations of his beliefs. He wanted people to have conversations about the possiblity and in the context of Dreamer, it highlights that the people are more unaware today than ever before, wake up! We don't know how deep his paranoia went in terms of his relationships and trust with people, we only know of examples given in books. However, considering how the man grew up as a child, being rich and successful in his early 20's, then super rich and a global superstar by 25 (Think about what was happening to him at 15, 16), I don't know how Prince couldn't be paranoid. I think Prince's reaction to his fears was to immerse himself in music and work. Playing always was his safest place, he didn't need a neverland ranch, he had his guitar and his piano to help him relieve and express whatever emotions he was feeling. The psychoanalyzing of Prince post mortem has become a gnashing to my brain. How do people assume to know what his mental state was as a man when you didn't know him personally? Regardless of Prince's paranoia or his religious beliefs, he did what he wanted to do with HIS life. The music is ours forever but the LIFE lived belonged to Prince and Prince alone. If I told you I am Christian, very Christian, would you assume that I am Conservative, Republican, a homophobe, a capitalist, a white male? If you assume those things, you'd be laughably wrong on all accounts. Even basing your opinion on the things we know, there's no way to know about Prince, don't line up a lyric in a song and his religious beliefs or his fears and connect some reality to it, because Prince lived one of the most prolific and amazing artistic lives in the history of the world. Anything that he lacked emotionally and physically, he placed in his art for YOU to enjoy and question not just about him but about yourself. Prince never portrayed himself as blameless or perfect, it's your fandom that put that expectation on him. It's something in you that see's Prince's 'talent' and says that a person THAT talented should be as perfect as possible. The true genius of Prince, is that he ultimately controlled and defined his identity and if that ultimately cost him his life so be it, who knows what I am doing that is costing me mine and I'm definitely not creating anything near as amazing as Prince did with his life.

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Reply #12 posted 01/01/18 12:46pm

cloveringold85

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I never saw Prince as being paranoid at all. He was very intellectual and kept an open mind about things going on in the world and life in general. He was very spiritual and had a strong faith in God. Prince had a very peaceful soul and he was getting older and he felt more comfortable in his own skin. Prince was well-read, enjoyed movies, art, the finer things in life and of course, music. I could sit down and just listen to him talk for hours. He was a deep-thinker and there's nothing wrong with that.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
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Reply #13 posted 01/01/18 1:03pm

Misslink88

So, basically, anyone who is a critical thinker is paranoid? Anyone who doesn't swallow the status quo, does any of their own research and doesn't listen to mainstream media is paranoid? Or are you speaking of the majority of the people around him who were there for their own agendas and did sell him out first chance they got? Maybe you're speaking of fans or exes who believe he was "communicating" with them through his songs long after they were around? It's not paranoia if it's true.

God is my Sugar Daddy.
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Reply #14 posted 01/01/18 1:16pm

PeteSilas

Misslink88 said:

So, basically, anyone who is a critical thinker is paranoid? Anyone who doesn't swallow the status quo, does any of their own research and doesn't listen to mainstream media is paranoid? Or are you speaking of the majority of the people around him who were there for their own agendas and did sell him out first chance they got? Maybe you're speaking of fans or exes who believe he was "communicating" with them through his songs long after they were around? It's not paranoia if it's true.

what makes it paranoia to me is when people say things without good evidence. Dick gregory is an extreme example of a paranoid old kook. If Prince believes anything that fucker said, he's paranoid too. Chemtrails don't make much scientific sense, i'm paranoid as fuck but it's got to make sense for me to believe it. also, the statement of the girl who said he was worried about the tags on his clothes, that's definitely paranoia, we don't know how much of chicks' stories were true, but Prince was maybe paranoid but certainly distrustful, distant, schizoid just like any of the other rock stars in his class (Elvis,MJ, Brown).

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #15 posted 01/01/18 1:31pm

ThatWhiteDude

PeteSilas said:



Misslink88 said:


So, basically, anyone who is a critical thinker is paranoid? Anyone who doesn't swallow the status quo, does any of their own research and doesn't listen to mainstream media is paranoid? Or are you speaking of the majority of the people around him who were there for their own agendas and did sell him out first chance they got? Maybe you're speaking of fans or exes who believe he was "communicating" with them through his songs long after they were around? It's not paranoia if it's true.



what makes it paranoia to me is when people say things without good evidence. Dick gregory is an extreme example of a paranoid old kook. If Prince believes anything that fucker said, he's paranoid too. Chemtrails don't make much scientific sense, i'm paranoid as fuck but it's got to make sense for me to believe it. also, the statement of the girl who said he was worried about the tags on his clothes, that's definitely paranoia, we don't know how much of chicks' stories were true, but Prince was maybe paranoid but certainly distrustful, distant, schizoid just like any of the other rock stars in his class (Elvis,MJ, Brown).


What stories did Chick tell? I'm too young to know that. I've never got to read the Interview. What did he say?
"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
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Reply #16 posted 01/01/18 1:37pm

PeteSilas

ThatWhiteDude said:

PeteSilas said:

what makes it paranoia to me is when people say things without good evidence. Dick gregory is an extreme example of a paranoid old kook. If Prince believes anything that fucker said, he's paranoid too. Chemtrails don't make much scientific sense, i'm paranoid as fuck but it's got to make sense for me to believe it. also, the statement of the girl who said he was worried about the tags on his clothes, that's definitely paranoia, we don't know how much of chicks' stories were true, but Prince was maybe paranoid but certainly distrustful, distant, schizoid just like any of the other rock stars in his class (Elvis,MJ, Brown).

What stories did Chick tell? I'm too young to know that. I've never got to read the Interview. What did he say?

search function it or google it for yourself, it was in the enquirer, he said prince was hiding from people, in fear for his life. not really a good source though, chick was hooked on coke which may have given him some paranoia problems of his own. Maybe i'll look up the article, it's been 30 years or so since i read it.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #17 posted 01/01/18 1:40pm

PeteSilas

ironically, i was just listening to a several hour interview with Morris Hayes, he mentions how Prince and he had an arguement over Morris having his phone on the car dashboard, prince told him to take it off. Morris told him it was his car and he could have it up there if he wanted to. It wasn't long before Morris was canned.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #18 posted 01/01/18 1:43pm

ThatWhiteDude

PeteSilas said:



ThatWhiteDude said:


PeteSilas said:


what makes it paranoia to me is when people say things without good evidence. Dick gregory is an extreme example of a paranoid old kook. If Prince believes anything that fucker said, he's paranoid too. Chemtrails don't make much scientific sense, i'm paranoid as fuck but it's got to make sense for me to believe it. also, the statement of the girl who said he was worried about the tags on his clothes, that's definitely paranoia, we don't know how much of chicks' stories were true, but Prince was maybe paranoid but certainly distrustful, distant, schizoid just like any of the other rock stars in his class (Elvis,MJ, Brown).



What stories did Chick tell? I'm too young to know that. I've never got to read the Interview. What did he say?

search function it or google it for yourself, it was in the enquirer, he said prince was hiding from people, in fear for his life. not really a good source though, chick was hooked on coke which may have given him some paranoia problems of his own. Maybe i'll look up the article, it's been 30 years or so since i read it.



I've never found anything when I googled biggrin
"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
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Reply #19 posted 01/01/18 1:43pm

ThatWhiteDude

PeteSilas said:

ironically, i was just listening to a several hour interview with Morris Hayes, he mentions how Prince and he had an arguement over Morris having his phone on the car dashboard, prince told him to take it off. Morris told him it was his car and he could have it up there if he wanted to. It wasn't long before Morris was canned.


That's pretty fucked up
"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."
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Reply #20 posted 01/01/18 2:00pm

cloveringold85

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PeteSilas said:

Misslink88 said:

So, basically, anyone who is a critical thinker is paranoid? Anyone who doesn't swallow the status quo, does any of their own research and doesn't listen to mainstream media is paranoid? Or are you speaking of the majority of the people around him who were there for their own agendas and did sell him out first chance they got? Maybe you're speaking of fans or exes who believe he was "communicating" with them through his songs long after they were around? It's not paranoia if it's true.

what makes it paranoia to me is when people say things without good evidence. Dick gregory is an extreme example of a paranoid old kook. If Prince believes anything that fucker said, he's paranoid too. Chemtrails don't make much scientific sense, i'm paranoid as fuck but it's got to make sense for me to believe it. also, the statement of the girl who said he was worried about the tags on his clothes, that's definitely paranoia, we don't know how much of chicks' stories were true, but Prince was maybe paranoid but certainly distrustful, distant, schizoid just like any of the other rock stars in his class (Elvis,MJ, Brown).

.

eek to the bolded above. eek

.

But if you are a paranoid person, nothing will make sense to you.

.

Chemtrails are real. Do you think they are spraying shit in the air for the hell of it? I see them spraying shit in the sky where I live all the time, and it's happening everywhere. Normal exhaust from jets don't linger in the sky for hours on-end.

.

If Chick was on coke, then there is nothing to believe about what he says, so consider the source.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
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Reply #21 posted 01/01/18 2:03pm

purplerabbitho
le

MOrris didn't say he was canned because of that occurance. . He said they were fighting at the end and Morris said that he was being under-utitized and being paid too much money to barely pay. We don't know whether Morris was canned or whether he saw the writing on the wall and then quit. But he did say that he made a point to come to one of Prince's shows around 2014-2015 when he was invited so that Prince knew that he still respected him and wanted to see him even if he wasn't working for him anymore. He went back stage and said hi. They seemed cool with one another at that point.

PeteSilas said:

ironically, i was just listening to a several hour interview with Morris Hayes, he mentions how Prince and he had an arguement over Morris having his phone on the car dashboard, prince told him to take it off. Morris told him it was his car and he could have it up there if he wanted to. It wasn't long before Morris was canned.

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Reply #22 posted 01/01/18 2:05pm

purplerabbitho
le

exactly

PeteSilas said:

Misslink88 said:

So, basically, anyone who is a critical thinker is paranoid? Anyone who doesn't swallow the status quo, does any of their own research and doesn't listen to mainstream media is paranoid? Or are you speaking of the majority of the people around him who were there for their own agendas and did sell him out first chance they got? Maybe you're speaking of fans or exes who believe he was "communicating" with them through his songs long after they were around? It's not paranoia if it's true.

what makes it paranoia to me is when people say things without good evidence. Dick gregory is an extreme example of a paranoid old kook. If Prince believes anything that fucker said, he's paranoid too. Chemtrails don't make much scientific sense, i'm paranoid as fuck but it's got to make sense for me to believe it. also, the statement of the girl who said he was worried about the tags on his clothes, that's definitely paranoia, we don't know how much of chicks' stories were true, but Prince was maybe paranoid but certainly distrustful, distant, schizoid just like any of the other rock stars in his class (Elvis,MJ, Brown).

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Reply #23 posted 01/01/18 2:07pm

PeteSilas

oh, so you heard that, yes, I just insinuated that it had something to do with him being canned but he didn't say that, no. He just used it as an example of how being around him for 20 years wore on him, like it would anyone.

purplerabbithole said:

MOrris didn't say he was canned because of that occurance. . He said they were fighting at the end and Morris said that he was being under-utitized and being paid too much money to barely pay. We don't know whether Morris was canned or whether he saw the writing on the wall and then quit. But he did say that he made a point to come to one of Prince's shows around 2014-2015 when he was invited so that Prince knew that he still respected him and wanted to see him even if he wasn't working for him anymore. He went back stage and said hi. They seemed cool with one another at that point.

PeteSilas said:

ironically, i was just listening to a several hour interview with Morris Hayes, he mentions how Prince and he had an arguement over Morris having his phone on the car dashboard, prince told him to take it off. Morris told him it was his car and he could have it up there if he wanted to. It wasn't long before Morris was canned.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #24 posted 01/01/18 2:11pm

PeteSilas

let me rephrase it, if i hear something like chemtrails are poison and I look it up and see a perfectly reasonable explanation for "chemtrails" out of planes, then I think it's a crazy idea. I am paranoid, not ashamed of it, glad i am, it keeps me on my toes but I don't know a lot of the things i'm paranoid of for certain (like the customers who i think may think i tried to rip them off, just because they are acting a little funny). And don't put paranoia just on the paranoids, this society is paranoid as fuck otherwise i wouldn't have to worry about bullshit like my customers thinking I tried to rip them off when i had nothing to do with it.

cloveringold85 said:

PeteSilas said:

what makes it paranoia to me is when people say things without good evidence. Dick gregory is an extreme example of a paranoid old kook. If Prince believes anything that fucker said, he's paranoid too. Chemtrails don't make much scientific sense, i'm paranoid as fuck but it's got to make sense for me to believe it. also, the statement of the girl who said he was worried about the tags on his clothes, that's definitely paranoia, we don't know how much of chicks' stories were true, but Prince was maybe paranoid but certainly distrustful, distant, schizoid just like any of the other rock stars in his class (Elvis,MJ, Brown).

.

eek to the bolded above. eek

.

But if you are a paranoid person, nothing will make sense to you.

.

Chemtrails are real. Do you think they are spraying shit in the air for the hell of it? I see them spraying shit in the sky where I live all the time, and it's happening everywhere. Normal exhaust from jets don't linger in the sky for hours on-end.

.

If Chick was on coke, then there is nothing to believe about what he says, so consider the source.

Prince.org: With fans like these he didn't need haters.
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Reply #25 posted 01/01/18 2:19pm

purplerabbitho
le

Critical thinking and paranoia do not look like alike. Do you HONESTLY THINK THAT ANYONE WITH A BIT OF SEnSE IS JUST BELIEVING THe media??? One or two things on my list wouldn't necessarily make him paranoid. All that stuff together might mean he was. The freaking out over Morris's cell phone (a long long time assocaite), the freaking out over dry cleaning tags, the obsession with conspiracy theories (some okay, but believing most of them is disconcerting), the truth issues, the secrecy with even those he knows well (including wives), the David Icke book, the new world order stuff in his songs, the not looking people in the eye, the early folks describing him as skittish, the removing his wife from a hospital only to just take her to another one, the belief in a religion that teaches that government is so inherently corrupt that you shouldn't vote, ETC...

Let's say Prince believes a couple conspiracy theories and had people sign NDA'''maybe, one could argue that he is just really cyncial and self protective, but God Damn, put all those things together and he is coming off paranoid.

BTW, conspiracy theories can be conspiracies in their own right. The reality is that our institutions are made up of human beings who sometimes tell the truth, sometimes lie, sometimes have integrety, sometimes do not, who are sometimes selfish and who are sometimes not. The mainstream media is trying to make money, but so are the conspiracy theorist and alternate media. Critical thinking doesn't mean just refusing to believe anything that is mainstream in favor of cult like groups and fear mongerers. .

Misslink88 said:

So, basically, anyone who is a critical thinker is paranoid? Anyone who doesn't swallow the status quo, does any of their own research and doesn't listen to mainstream media is paranoid? Or are you speaking of the majority of the people around him who were there for their own agendas and did sell him out first chance they got? Maybe you're speaking of fans or exes who believe he was "communicating" with them through his songs long after they were around? It's not paranoia if it's true.

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Reply #26 posted 01/01/18 2:20pm

Mumio

avatar

Polo1026 said:

Honestly, a single line in a song about chemtrails is a silly thing to use as an indicator of paranoia. He had an entire song about Ghosts, there's no scientific evidence they exist, right? Can 'Others here with Us' be used as a thesis for paranoia? Some lines are designed simply to make you think and force you to ask questions, not to be representations of his beliefs. He wanted people to have conversations about the possiblity and in the context of Dreamer, it highlights that the people are more unaware today than ever before, wake up! We don't know how deep his paranoia went in terms of his relationships and trust with people, we only know of examples given in books. However, considering how the man grew up as a child, being rich and successful in his early 20's, then super rich and a global superstar by 25 (Think about what was happening to him at 15, 16), I don't know how Prince couldn't be paranoid. I think Prince's reaction to his fears was to immerse himself in music and work. Playing always was his safest place, he didn't need a neverland ranch, he had his guitar and his piano to help him relieve and express whatever emotions he was feeling. The psychoanalyzing of Prince post mortem has become a gnashing to my brain. How do people assume to know what his mental state was as a man when you didn't know him personally? Regardless of Prince's paranoia or his religious beliefs, he did what he wanted to do with HIS life. The music is ours forever but the LIFE lived belonged to Prince and Prince alone. If I told you I am Christian, very Christian, would you assume that I am Conservative, Republican, a homophobe, a capitalist, a white male? If you assume those things, you'd be laughably wrong on all accounts. Even basing your opinion on the things we know, there's no way to know about Prince, don't line up a lyric in a song and his religious beliefs or his fears and connect some reality to it, because Prince lived one of the most prolific and amazing artistic lives in the history of the world. Anything that he lacked emotionally and physically, he placed in his art for YOU to enjoy and question not just about him but about yourself. Prince never portrayed himself as blameless or perfect, it's your fandom that put that expectation on him. It's something in you that see's Prince's 'talent' and says that a person THAT talented should be as perfect as possible. The true genius of Prince, is that he ultimately controlled and defined his identity and if that ultimately cost him his life so be it, who knows what I am doing that is costing me mine and I'm definitely not creating anything near as amazing as Prince did with his life.



I like what you said here a lot Polo1026, makes a great deal of sense and it's quite a realistic viewpoint. Thanks smile


Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
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Reply #27 posted 01/01/18 2:21pm

purplerabbitho
le

There is paranoid and then there is paranoid personality disorder. I think Prince might have had the later.

We all have our moments when we are paranoid but it doesn't necessarily cripple us or make us following cults. I think it did for him. BTW, I don't know if JW is a cult, but if he checks his brain at the door and refuses to believe anything but the doctrine than he behaving like a cultist.

PeteSilas said:

let me rephrase it, if i hear something like chemtrails are poison and I look it up and see a perfectly reasonable explanation for "chemtrails" out of planes, then I think it's a crazy idea. I am paranoid, not ashamed of it, glad i am, it keeps me on my toes but I don't know a lot of the things i'm paranoid of for certain (like the customers who i think may think i tried to rip them off, just because they are acting a little funny). And don't put paranoia just on the paranoids, this society is paranoid as fuck otherwise i wouldn't have to worry about bullshit like my customers thinking I tried to rip them off when i had nothing to do with it.

cloveringold85 said:

.

eek to the bolded above. eek

.

But if you are a paranoid person, nothing will make sense to you.

.

Chemtrails are real. Do you think they are spraying shit in the air for the hell of it? I see them spraying shit in the sky where I live all the time, and it's happening everywhere. Normal exhaust from jets don't linger in the sky for hours on-end.

.

If Chick was on coke, then there is nothing to believe about what he says, so consider the source.

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Reply #28 posted 01/01/18 2:29pm

purplerabbitho
le

In no way, am I criticizing or judging Prince. I am sympathizing. Prince's genius and success was a double edged sword. Sometimes his paranoia was warranted. Sometimes, I think he took his foibles and turned them into art and made the best of things. There is much to be admired in this man. But I also think he was more vulnerable to his fears and paranoia than many people believe. I think his art was always fearless but his life at times lacked balance and I think he paid the price. I feel a combination of admiration and geniune sympathy. I wish when he was alive he could have found a way to live in the world in a way that balanced weariness, self=protection, and critical thinking with real bonding, emotional openness and true personal freedom beyond the words in a song, the notes he played or the stage he performed on. I wish he could have gone to that party in St. Barts and enjoyed his success with Paul McCartney and CHris Rock without feeling he had to jump into a musical gig (money or no money he worked too damn much.) Fame is a bitch. It both allows you to express yourself through song or art and then imprisons you. Prince was almost of an artist for his own good and I think unfortuantely any anxiety or fears he had were exasperated by the naure of fame and enabled to continue with no checks.

Polo1026 said:

Honestly, a single line in a song about chemtrails is a silly thing to use as an indicator of paranoia. He had an entire song about Ghosts, there's no scientific evidence they exist, right? Can 'Others here with Us' be used as a thesis for paranoia? Some lines are designed simply to make you think and force you to ask questions, not to be representations of his beliefs. He wanted people to have conversations about the possiblity and in the context of Dreamer, it highlights that the people are more unaware today than ever before, wake up! We don't know how deep his paranoia went in terms of his relationships and trust with people, we only know of examples given in books. However, considering how the man grew up as a child, being rich and successful in his early 20's, then super rich and a global superstar by 25 (Think about what was happening to him at 15, 16), I don't know how Prince couldn't be paranoid. I think Prince's reaction to his fears was to immerse himself in music and work. Playing always was his safest place, he didn't need a neverland ranch, he had his guitar and his piano to help him relieve and express whatever emotions he was feeling. The psychoanalyzing of Prince post mortem has become a gnashing to my brain. How do people assume to know what his mental state was as a man when you didn't know him personally? Regardless of Prince's paranoia or his religious beliefs, he did what he wanted to do with HIS life. The music is ours forever but the LIFE lived belonged to Prince and Prince alone. If I told you I am Christian, very Christian, would you assume that I am Conservative, Republican, a homophobe, a capitalist, a white male? If you assume those things, you'd be laughably wrong on all accounts. Even basing your opinion on the things we know, there's no way to know about Prince, don't line up a lyric in a song and his religious beliefs or his fears and connect some reality to it, because Prince lived one of the most prolific and amazing artistic lives in the history of the world. Anything that he lacked emotionally and physically, he placed in his art for YOU to enjoy and question not just about him but about yourself. Prince never portrayed himself as blameless or perfect, it's your fandom that put that expectation on him. It's something in you that see's Prince's 'talent' and says that a person THAT talented should be as perfect as possible. The true genius of Prince, is that he ultimately controlled and defined his identity and if that ultimately cost him his life so be it, who knows what I am doing that is costing me mine and I'm definitely not creating anything near as amazing as Prince did with his life.

[Edited 1/1/18 14:32pm]

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Reply #29 posted 01/01/18 2:33pm

cloveringold85

avatar

PeteSilas said:

let me rephrase it, if i hear something like chemtrails are poison and I look it up and see a perfectly reasonable explanation for "chemtrails" out of planes, then I think it's a crazy idea. I am paranoid, not ashamed of it, glad i am, it keeps me on my toes but I don't know a lot of the things i'm paranoid of for certain (like the customers who i think may think i tried to rip them off, just because they are acting a little funny). And don't put paranoia just on the paranoids, this society is paranoid as fuck otherwise i wouldn't have to worry about bullshit like my customers thinking I tried to rip them off when i had nothing to do with it.

cloveringold85 said:

.

eek to the bolded above. eek

.

But if you are a paranoid person, nothing will make sense to you.

.

Chemtrails are real. Do you think they are spraying shit in the air for the hell of it? I see them spraying shit in the sky where I live all the time, and it's happening everywhere. Normal exhaust from jets don't linger in the sky for hours on-end.

.

If Chick was on coke, then there is nothing to believe about what he says, so consider the source.

.

I think it's healthy to question things. Some people are indifferent and they don't care either way. Their choice.

.

Our government sprays chemicals in the air......it's a fact. They launch rockets and other shit into the atmosphere and don't tell us what they are doing. It has nothing to do with being paranoid. It has more to do with being aware of what is happening around us. Just my opinion & I don't think Prince was nuts at all. He was very wise.

"With love, honor, and respect for every living thing in the universe, separation ceases, and we all become one being, singing one song." - Prince Roger Nelson (1958-2016)
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