purplerabbithole said:

Not disagreeing that black people are more likely to watch white entertainment becuase there is more of it out there. But I used to teach in a school in which 70 percent of my students were black, and when I would offer to play Pandora during work times, the requests were all hip-hop. That being said, I am fairly certain that in a school with 70 percent white studetns, the music requests would be less likely to be hip-hop. IN all fairness, Adele was extremely popular amongst the black female students I had.

Hip hop includes acts like Eminem, Macklemore, and G-Eazy though. Black people listening to Adele and Sam Smith is not any different than ones in the past listening to Hall & Oates, Teena Marie, Average White Band, Phil Collins, Doobie Brothers/Michael McDonald, Kenny G, Culture Club, George Michael, Beastie Boys, Paul Wall, 3rd Base, UB40, etc. Basically white artists doing R&B, rap, and reggae influenced music. They're listening to R&B/soul/funk. Black people were more likely to listen to them than to listen to Jimi Hendrix, Bus Boys, Tracy Chapman, Jon Butcher Axis, or Fishbone. They didn't get any airplay on R&B stations, and little if any on the mostly white AOR stations. I've heard 1 Tracy Chapman song on a R&B station, but have heard around 3 or 4 by Depeche Mode, Howard Jones, & Tears For Fears. Black artists not primarily doing R&B or hip hop. Techically if you listen to some black singers, there's white session musicians playing or white producers like on Aretha Franklin's late 1960s Atlantic albums, Joe Tex, Wilson Pickett, or Got To Be Real by Cheryl Lynn which has members from Toto playing on it. There's also the case the black audience in general abandoned what was in the past like jazz, blues, and rock n roll. That's partly the reason rock is considered white music today, although it originated from gospel. R&B also came from gospel and rock is an offspring of R&B mixed with some country. If someone else does it, it's labeled "Black rock" or "Latin rock" or "Afropunk".

Here's some evidence of that on Soul Train

NO disagreement. I suspect that black people (especially young one) think of rock, pop as white music because when it became mainstreamed the black innovators were pushed to the side and their importance was ignored. None of it is entirely black or white music, it is both. However, its black people who were often the early innovators..and its a shame that their contributions were so quickly dismissed.

I love this story about Prince and Lenny Kravitz. Kravitz expressed concern to PRince about black people not being at his concert. Prince responded for him not to worry because Rock n Roll is black music. I always thought prince was trying to reclaim all forms of american music as black music. When his hip-hop ventures (flawed as they sometimes were) were just dismissed as trend-following, it always bothered me. To me, Prince was embracing all modern pop music that was black and white for that matter. I think he understood and embraced the overlap and history of those uniquely American forms of music.

I think jazz music is not embraced by the young because it has become elitist and a bit challenging to listen to..but its audience has always been both races. In fact, jazz music is the first uniquely American form of music and is the biggest original source of most modern American music.. Country music isn't strictly American music...its roots are in european folk. Gospel has roots in hymns. But jazz (with its hybrid of european melody and african rhythm) was completely invented here by American slaves. It was beginning of American music as we know it and influenced everything after it including religious music (gospel) and American country music.

MickyDolenz said:

purplerabbithole said:

Not disagreeing that black people are more likely to watch white entertainment becuase there is more of it out there. But I used to teach in a school in which 70 percent of my students were black, and when I would offer to play Pandora during work times, the requests were all hip-hop. That being said, I am fairly certain that in a school with 70 percent white studetns, the music requests would be less likely to be hip-hop. IN all fairness, Adele was extremely popular amongst the black female students I had.

Hip hop includes acts like Eminem, Macklemore, and G-Eazy though. Black people listening to Adele and Sam Smith is not any different than ones in the past listening to Hall & Oates, Teena Marie, Average White Band, Phil Collins, Doobie Brothers/Michael McDonald, Kenny G, Culture Club, George Michael, Beastie Boys, Paul Wall, 3rd Base, UB40, etc. Basically white artists doing R&B, rap, and reggae influenced music. They're listening to R&B/soul/funk. Black people were more likely to listen to them than to listen to Jimi Hendrix, Bus Boys, Tracy Chapman, Jon Butcher Axis, or Fishbone. They didn't get any airplay on R&B stations, and little if any on the mostly white AOR stations. I've heard 1 Tracy Chapman song on a R&B station, but have heard around 3 or 4 by Depeche Mode, Howard Jones, & Tears For Fears. Black artists not primarily doing R&B or hip hop. Techically if you listen to some black singers, there's white session musicians playing or white producers like on Aretha Franklin's late 1960s Atlantic albums, Joe Tex, Wilson Pickett, or Got To Be Real by Cheryl Lynn which has members from Toto playing on it. There's also the case the black audience in general abandoned what was in the past like jazz, blues, and rock n roll. That's partly the reason rock is considered white music today, although it originated from gospel. R&B also came from gospel and rock is an offspring of R&B mixed with some country. If someone else does it, it's labeled "Black rock" or "Latin rock" or "Afropunk".

[Edited 12/23/17 16:18pm]

[Edited 12/23/17 16:20pm]

[Edited 12/23/17 16:23pm]

Its not delusion. Prince had a number one album,song and movie all at the same time the same year thriller came out. I teach in a middle school and even kids who barely know who Prince is know the song Purple Rain. Its in the stratosphere.

purple05 said:

purplerabbithole said:

Its in the same stratosphere. Thriller is more famous. But Purple Rain is far from obscure.

I disagree. I don't think they are in the same strastophere but what one likes is subjective. I would feel the same way no matter who was #1. Art is subjective but subjectivity doesn't mean delusional either

purplerabbithole said:

Hi MJ fan. I just checked your history page. It is all Michael Jackson. Imagine my surprise A strasosphere is bigger than one album.. there is room for more than one album. There are kids I know who don't know a single Madonna song but do know Purple Rain. Thriller was an enormous hit and MJ's elaborate dance videos are exttremely influential in the history of music videoes, but I work with kids and one reason they know Thriller is because it is played every Halloween not because it was musically ground-breaking to them.. Purple Rain might not be either. But Prince and MJ musically speaking have equally influenced people like Justin TImberlake, and Bruno Mars. Without the sexuality of Prince's music, where would the sexuality come from in these dude's music? MJ? Love Sounds by Timberlake is strongly influenced by the synthethizer-sex funk of P's 80's music and the techno-funk of his 3121 album.

How one defines the size of stratosphere (musically, pop culturally speaking) is SUBJECTIVE!!

Free2BMe said:

purplerabbithole said:

Its not delusion. Prince had a number one album,song and movie all at the same time the same year thriller came out. I teach in a middle school and even kids who barely know who Prince is know the song Purple Rain. Its in the stratosphere.

Thriller and Purple Rain are NOT in the same stratosphere. Kids of EVERY age know songs from Thriller and they ALL know about Michael. Kids know one song from Purple Rain and that is the title song. Purple Rain is a great album and so is Thriller. It just happens that Thriller had more of a musical and cultural influence on society than Purple Rain. That's not diminishing PR; however, that Album is not in the same stratosphere as Thriller and that's just a fact. Critics can choose Purple Rain as their choice as the #1 album and it still won't change what I previously stated. Bottomline is, it's a person's OPINION on what they think is the best.

[Edited 12/23/17 18:04pm]

[Edited 12/23/17 18:10pm]

purplerabbithole said:

Albums, cool...... Prince was very much more interesting than MJ

Fact:

Mj made 3 maybe 4 brilliant albums in his (solo) career

Off The Wall
Thriller
Bad
(partly Dangerous)

Prince made 3x more, at least these 9 masterpieces (in 1 decade so impressing), 9 brilliant albums, acclaimed worldwide by critics & fans

Dirty Mind
Controversy
1999 (double)
Purple Rain
Around The World
Parade
Sign *O* The Times (double)
The Black Album
Lovesexy (don't trash this masterpiece; a big succes in UK/ Europe)

Could be MJ had more single hits, BUT i prefer more albums made by the artist (Prince)



Now f*ck off u Mj fans... this is a P fan site.... hah!

thedance said:

purplerabbithole said:

Gospel has roots in hymns. But jazz (with its hybrid of european melody and african rhythm) was completely invented here by American slaves. It was beginning of American music as we know it and influenced everything after it including religious music (gospel) and American country music.

I think jazz came from ragtime. Gospel also came from spirituals, which slaves sometimes sang as code to send messages to each other that the master or overseer wouldn't understand. Spirituals were often accapella, because they didn't have instruments. Later in the early 1990s the Fisk Jubilee Singers became popular doing spirituals and performed for white audiences.

Free2BMe said:

thedance said:

Albums, cool...... Prince was very much more interesting than MJ

Fact:

Mj made 3 maybe 4 brilliant albums in his (solo) career

Off The Wall
Thriller
Bad
(partly Dangerous)

Prince made 3x more, at least these 9 masterpieces (in 1 decade so impressing), 9 brilliant albums, acclaimed worldwide by critics & fans

Dirty Mind
Controversy
1999 (double)
Purple Rain
Around The World
Parade
Sign *O* The Times (double)
The Black Album
Lovesexy (don't trash this masterpiece; a big succes in UK/ Europe)

Could be MJ had more single hits, BUT i prefer more albums made by the artist (Prince)



Now f*ck off u Mj fans... this is a P fan site.... hah!

Hey little one: Off The wall Thriller Bad Dangerous HIStory(double album) Invincible Blood On The Dancefloor All great albums. Just wanted to let you know that you left some MJ albums off of your list during your tirade. Btw, have you ever thought of Ignoring MJ fans and not responding. AND stop bringing up and trashing Michael during your discussions. These things would stop any MJ fans from having to defend him. Just something that can help you out so that you won't have to be so angry, the next time there is an intelligent and rational opinion, disagreement or discussion.

How about you MJ Fans stay off this thread, it didn't have to do shit with MJ but you came over to discuss and to repeat how great Thriller was.

here you go guys go again....having yet another silly,childish Prince vs.MJ war Grow up...it's not 1985 anymore

ThatWhiteDude said:

purplerabbithole said:

MickyDolenz said:

MickyDolenz said:

purplerabbithole said:

purplerabbithole said:

purplerabbithole said:

purple05 said:

I agree that's it's not the performers fault unless it's shamelessly done i.e. Iffy Azelia. The record companies know that they can make lots of money by having a white person immitate a black person

That's like anything. Kung Fu was supposed to star Bruce Lee, but David Carridine got the part instead. Jackie Chan tried to break into the USA market in the 1980s, but was unsuccessful. Chuck Norris had hit movies doing martial arts at the time. It's not that common for artists that are not white or black to get radio airplay or to be seen in mainstream TV shows and movies. Few have become mainstream popular recording stars. There's like Gloria Estefan, who's Cuban. She had long term success, and maybe Santana. Santana was mainly popular in the early 1970s and later during the Supernatural era. Before them there was Desi Arnaz, and the TV network didn't want him to star in I Love Lucy at first. Some Latinos had brief popularity on the mainstream Top 40, like Jon Secada, Menudo, Ricky Martin, Lisa Lisa, & Los Lonely Boys. Freddy Fender & Johnny Rodriguez had success in country music. There was Don Ho (Hawaiian) in the 1970s, and guitarist/actress Charo. But Don & Charo were more popular for being on TV shows than getting radio airplay. Japanese singer Kyu Sakamoto had a big hit in the 1960s with Sukiyaki and Native American band Redbone had one with Come And Get Your Love in the 1970s.

imho

Invincible
Blood On The Dancefloor

HIStory is half a "Greatest Hits", and it doesn't count as a classic album release, imo....

My point is:



P has released a LOT more brilliant albums than that other guy.. fact u can't deny...

Silvertongue7 said:

2freaky4church1 said:

How can it beat Thriller?

Easily.

Finger in the nose.

laytonian said:

Silvertongue7 said:

Easily.

Exactly. Take away Quincy Jones, and what is MJ?

Hey, that's going too far, gimme the phone!

[Edited 12/25/17 11:55am]

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

2freaky4church1 said:

How can it beat Thriller?

The same exact way it beat ALL of the other 90 Diamond Albums on the list.

By...
expertly flowing from track to track while delighting, surprising and astounding at each bend. Personal and universal, familiar and challenging, romantic and narcissistic, religious and orgasmic, accessible to all and profoundly weird, Purple Rain rightly remains the cornerstone of Prince’s recorded legacy, almost too obvious in its brilliance to even be worth discussing at length.

[Edited 12/20/17 19:00pm]

It would take me a loggorhea of paragraphs to nail it this well.
Merry Lonely Christmas, SKipper.

Adorecream said:

I agree, Thriller is just a lot of first rate singles and and verge filler, along with the clunker the girl is mine. For MJ the later albums, particularly Bad and Dangerous are so much better and how is it, they are not diamond as they both sold over 30 million each worldwide, but only like 7 or 8 million each in Yankee doodle land.

I guess because people always expected the next "thriller", because the concept worked so good the first time. That's why WB didn't want to release Kiss, they wanted another PR, but Prince wasn't having it, he said: "I reached the mountain top, there's nothing". Or something like that. I think, Dangerous and the other albums are better than Bad, because to me it seems like MJ tried to make another Thriller. But it doesn't work. I've never heard of an artist who could actually repeat his biggest moment. It can break a man if he tries to repeat it. The austrian singer Falco suffered because of it and turned to drugs. It didn't end to well, the man died at only 40 years old.

It's actually the same with Eminem right now. People say, "he was better on drugs." They don't know that artists evolve and they grow with age. Eminem showed with his new Album that he's accepting his mistakes he confronted himself and he said the mother of his daughters that he is sorry, he evolves and tries new things. But people want Slim Shady. They don't want him to evolve.

I event think that Off the Wall is much better than Thriller. And it didn't need a video like Thriller.

Thank God Michael had Prince as an emulation.
It gave us fine albums indeed.

"Thriller" feels like Toto welcomed Michael for some jams.
Thank God Quincy knew how to decorate with overdubs,
and Bruce Swedien knew how to place his mikes (and Mike).

It's still an incredible album, they all are despite their popularity.
But the maverick has overcome, The Revolution gets the spot.

There is too much in it. It could be a medley mix of all the others with just one song.
It's the fierceness of it, the drive, the hands, the voices doing their thing while Susan and David tweak knobs
in some suburbian middle-of-nowhere-one-day-I'll-show-them warehouse.

"Purple Rain" smells of roadies sweat and machine-made fog and girl perfume.
"Thriller" smells like clean carpets and fine expensive wood wax, and a tad of antiperspirant.

Man, I'll go with the groupies anyday, if they looked like Apple and if I had the Kid's Honda.
You stay with your pristine 64 channels and take your 17 days for a song.

No, I'll tell you what, you and your white shiny glove can go downstairs
And I'll take my business elsewheres!
Now gimme this!
Jeez!

[Edited 12/25/17 12:38pm]

SoulAlive said:

here you go guys go again....having yet another silly, childish Prince vs.MJ war Grow up...it's not 1985 anymore

Especially since this is a list of 92 albums. Like they're the only 2 acts on it.

1. Prince, Purple Rain (1984, 13x Platinum)
2. The Beatles, Abbey Road (1969, 12x Platinum)
3. Led Zeppelin – Led Zeppelin IV (1971, 23x Platinum)
4. Michael Jackson, Thriller (1982, 33x Platinum)
5. Nirvana, Nevermind (1991, 10x Platinum)
6. Saturday Night Fever Soundtrack (1977, 16x Platinum)
7. TLC, CrazySexyCool (1995, 11x Platinum)
8. The Beatles, The Beatles (The White Album) (1968, 19x Platinum)
9. Madonna, Like a Virgin (1984, 10x Platinum)
10. Eminem, The Marshall Mathers LP (2000, 10x Platinum)
11. Stevie Wonder, Songs in the Key of Life (1976, 10x Platinum)
12. Van Halen, Van Halen (1978, 10x Platinum)
13. Adele, 21 (2011, 14x Platinum)
14. Pink Floyd, The Wall (23x Platinum, 1979)
15. Metallica, Metallica (The Black Album) (1991, 16x Platinum)
16. Shania Twain, Come On Over (1997, 20x Platinum)
17. Notorious B.I.G., Life After Death (1997, 10x Platinum)
18. The Beatles, Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band (1967, 11x Platinum)
19. Led Zeppelin – Led Zeppelin II (1969, 12x Platinum)
20. Beastie Boys, Licensed to Ill (1986, 10x Platinum)
21. Green Day, Dookie (1994, 10x Platinum)
22. Fleetwood Mac, Rumours (1977, 20x Platinum)
23. Bruce Springsteen, Born in the U.S.A. (1984, 15x Platinum)
24. Carole King, Tapestry (1971, 10x Platinum)
25. Guns N’ Roses, Appetite for Destruction (1988, 18x Platinum)
26. U2, The Joshua Tree (1987, 10x Platinum)
27. 2Pac, All Eyez on Me (1996, 10x Platinum)
28. Led Zeppelin – Houses of the Holy (1973, 11x Platinum)
29. Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon (1972, 15x Platinum)
30. Van Halen, 1984 (1984, 10x Platinum)
31. Garth Brooks, No Fences (1990, 17x Platinum)
32. George Michael, Faith (1987, 10x Platinum)
33. AC/DC, Back in Black (1980, 22x Platinum)
34. Smashing Pumpkins, Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness (1995, 10x Platinum)
35. Taylor Swift, Fearless (2008, 10x Platinum)
36. Boston, Boston (1976, 17x Platinum)
37. Alanis Morissette, Jagged Little Pill (1995, 16x Platinum)
38. Led Zeppelin – Physical Graffiti (1975, 16x Platinum)
39. Def Leppard, Hysteria (1987, 12x Platinum)
40. Whitney Houston, Whitney Houston (1985, 13x Platinum)
41. Michael Jackson, Bad (10x Platinum, 1987)
42. Eminem, The Eminem Show (10x Platinum, 2002)
44. Dixie Chicks, Fly (1999, 10x Platinum)
45. Eagles, Hotel California (1976, 16x Platinum)
46. Shania Twain, The Woman In Me (1994, 12x Platinum)
47. Pearl Jam, Ten (1991, 13x Platinum)
48. Billy Joel, The Stranger (1977, 10x Platinum)
49. Garth Brooks, Garth Brooks (1989, 10x Platinum)
50. Usher, Confessions (2004, 10x Platinum)
51. Nelly, Country Grammar (2000, 10x Platinum)
52. Led Zeppelin – Led Zeppelin (I) (1969, 10x Platinum)
53. Various Artists, The Bodyguard Soundtrack (1992, 18x Platinum)
54. Adele, 25 (2015, 11x Platinum)
55. ZZ Top, Eliminator (1983, 10x Platinum)
56. Meat Loaf, Bat Out of Hell (1977, 14x Platinum)
57. Linkin Park, Hybrid Theory (2000, 11x Platinum)
58. Mariah Carey, Music Box (1993, 10x Platinum)
59. Phil Collins, No Jacket Required (1985, 12x Platinum)
60. Norah Jones, Come Away With Me (2002, 10x Platinum)
61. *NSYNC, No Strings Attached (2000, 11x Platinum)
62. Dixie Chicks, Wide Open Spaces (1998, 12x Platinum)
63. Lionel Richie, Can’t Slow Down (1983, 10x Platinum)
64. REO Speedwagon, Hi Infidelity (1980, 10x Platinum)
65. Britney Spears, Oops!... I Did It Again (2000, 10x Platinum)
66. Def Leppard, Pyromania (1983, 10x Platinum)
67. The Lion King Soundtrack (10x Platinum, 1994)
68. Kid Rock, Devil Without a Cause (1999, 11x Platinum)
69. Mariah Carey, Daydream (1995, 10x Platinum)
70. Boyz II Men, II (1994, 12x Platinum)
71. Hootie and the Blowfish, Cracked Rear View (1994, 16x Platinum)
72. Bon Jovi, Slippery When Wet (1986, 12x Platinum)
73. Shania Twain, Up! (2002, 11x Platinum)
74. Jewel, Pieces of You (1997, 12x Platinum)
75. Backstreet Boys, Millennium (1999, 13x Platinum)
76. Garth Brooks, Ropin’ the Wind (1991, 14x Platinum)
77. OutKast, Speakerboxxx/The Love Below (2003, 11x Platinum)
78. Celine Dion, Falling Into You (1996, 11x Platinum)
79. Dirty Dancing Soundtrack (1987, 11x Platinum)
80. Backstreet Boys, Backstreet Boys (1997, 14x Platinum)
81. Elvis Presley, Elvis’ Christmas Album (1957, 10x Platinum)
82. *NSYNC, ‘N Sync (1998, 10x Platinum)
83. Hammer, Please Hammer, Don’t Hurt ‘Em (1990, 10x Platinum)
84. Britney Spears. …Baby One More Time (1999, 14x Platinum)
85. Santana, Supernatural (1999, 15x Platinum)
86. Celine Dion, Let’s Talk About Love (1997, 10x Platinum)
87. Matchbox 20, Yourself or Someone Like You (1996, 12x Platinum)
88. Various Artists, Titanic Soundtrack (1997, 11x Platinum)
89. Garth Brooks, Sevens (1997, 10x Platinum)
90. Creed, Human Clay (1999, 11x Platinum)
91. Nickelback, All the Right Reasons (2005, 10x Platinum)
92. Kenny G, Breathless (1992, 12x Platinum)

I wonder why they didn't put Greatest Hits/Best Of albums that went diamond, like ones by The Beatles, Eagles, & Garth Brooks. Also, I didn't realize some acts like Biggie Smalls, Creed, *NSYNC, & Backstreet Boys had diamond albums. It's interesting that Bon Jovi is one of next years Rock n Roll Hall Of Fame inducees, but their album is low on the list