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Thread started 12/09/17 4:33pm

luv4u

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Prince Estate Sues Random Guy for Posting Concert Videos on YouTube

Prince's estate is following in the singer's footsteps when it comes to going after people who posted his music online without permission.



Read more about it here: https://theblast.com/prin...e-lawsuit/

Edmonton, AB - canada

Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture!
REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince
"I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben
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Reply #1 posted 12/09/17 4:51pm

Strive

People are missing the part where the guy contested the takedown notice after the fair use claim was denied by the estate. Legally, at that point, the estate has to sue or drop their claim. Youtube explicitly warns you about that before you file it.

This guy has no legal footing to stand on and is going to get destroyed in court.

The estate claims they filed notice with YouTube to have them removed (which they did) but Habib contested the move, which prompted the estate to file the suit.

[Edited 12/9/17 16:55pm]
no yesterday or tomorrow, no better remedy for sorrow
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Reply #2 posted 12/09/17 6:55pm

radici27

Let us have youtube videos. If most P fans are like me, youtube clips will not compete with any official releases.

We lost our musical hero and need to see as much as we can.

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Reply #3 posted 12/09/17 7:26pm

laurarichardso
n

radici27 said:

Let us have youtube videos. If most P fans are like me, youtube clips will not compete with any official releases.

We lost our musical hero and need to see as much as we can.

How do feel about he money he made off it. It was not okay to make money off of Prince's music when he was alive and it is not okay now.

"They are looking to have the videos removed for good and are seeking any profits he might have made from the ads on the video."

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Reply #4 posted 12/10/17 11:51am

radici27

laurarichardson said:

radici27 said:

Let us have youtube videos. If most P fans are like me, youtube clips will not compete with any official releases.

We lost our musical hero and need to see as much as we can.

How do feel about he money he made off it. It was not okay to make money off of Prince's music when he was alive and it is not okay now.

"They are looking to have the videos removed for good and are seeking any profits he might have made from the ads on the video."

So I should assume you've never watched an unofficial Prince clip on youtube?

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Reply #5 posted 12/10/17 12:58pm

rogifan

I’m curious, if someone posts a video on YouTube does Google automatically place ads in the video and does the video poster get a cut of the ad revenue? I’ve watched plenty of shorter YouTube clips of live Prince performances that didn’t contain ads. If someone is not making money off of the videos and they’re not posting entire shows I think the Estate should let it go. I’ve downloaded a ton of live footage. Quality is not great as it’s cell phone footage from the crowd but better than nothing. And certainly not something the Estate should be obsessed over. It’s not like they’re losing money over it as there’s no official product people could be buying instead.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #6 posted 12/10/17 3:10pm

rogifan

Just saw this on Twitter. Should the Estate really be wasting their time young after stuff like this?

https://twitter.com/purpl...9411431425
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #7 posted 12/10/17 3:20pm

babynoz

How much longer is this POS judge going to let these greedy bastid lawyers milk this estate? It's time for the fam to put a helluva lot of pressure on these mf's to settle this damn case before these jackals suck every dime out of it and they are left broke as hell.


I seldom comment on OPP, but damn!

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #8 posted 12/10/17 3:26pm

purplethunder3
121

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babynoz said:

How much longer is this POS judge going to let these greedy bastid lawyers milk this estate? It's time for the fam to put a helluva lot of pressure on these mf's to settle this damn case before these jackals suck every dime out of it and they are left broke as hell.


I seldom comment on OPP, but damn!

I was just thinking the same thing right before I read your response! Wondering how long it will take the blood suckers to run through millions of dollars...

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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Reply #9 posted 12/10/17 3:35pm

laurarichardso
n

rogifan said:

Just saw this on Twitter. Should the Estate really be wasting their time young after stuff like this? https://twitter.com/purpl...9411431425

How much time do you think it takes to file these complaints? Comerica is being watched by the court they are doing what the court order them to do. Trust if they do not do anything at SNJ will be the first to complain in fact they were complaining in the most recent court papers that Comercia was not doing enough about copyright infringement.

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Reply #10 posted 12/10/17 3:37pm

laurarichardso
n

purplethunder3121 said:

babynoz said:

How much longer is this POS judge going to let these greedy bastid lawyers milk this estate? It's time for the fam to put a helluva lot of pressure on these mf's to settle this damn case before these jackals suck every dime out of it and they are left broke as hell.


I seldom comment on OPP, but damn!

I was just thinking the same thing right before I read your response! Wondering how long it will take the blood suckers to run through millions of dollars...

What millions? Comerica is charging a flat fee for their services. Think about how much estate money the lawyers for SNJ are getting to get stopping the estate from making money with ridculous objections to five deals that are on the table.

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Reply #11 posted 12/10/17 4:38pm

XNY

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Even if there isn't an ad attached YouTube makes a ton of money and gives artists only a tiny percentage of those earnings. That was of the issues Prince had with YT.I agree.
"Great dancers are not great because of their technique, they are great because of their passion" -- Martha Graham
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Reply #12 posted 12/10/17 6:34pm

rogifan

XNY said:

Even if there isn't an ad attached YouTube makes a ton of money and gives artists only a tiny percentage of those earnings. That was of the issues Prince had with YT.I agree.

I agree re: studio recordings or official live releases. But 5 minutes of someone’s mediocre cell phone video? Come on.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #13 posted 12/10/17 6:39pm

rogifan

laurarichardson said:



rogifan said:


Just saw this on Twitter. Should the Estate really be wasting their time young after stuff like this? https://twitter.com/purpl...9411431425

How much time do you think it takes to file these complaints? Comerica is being watched by the court they are doing what the court order them to do. Trust if they do not do anything at SNJ will be the first to complain in fact they were complaining in the most recent court papers that Comercia was not doing enough about copyright infringement.


I’m sorry but what $$ is the Estate losing on that Twitter clip I posted? It’s a partial song clip. I’ll bet 99% of people posting live concert footage on YouTube aren’t making any money off it. Rather than suing people how about the estate work on getting live concerts out there for people to purchase? Just 4 off the top of my head that I’d purchase in a heartbeat: Coachella, Montreux 2009 & 2013, North Sea Jazz 2011.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #14 posted 12/10/17 6:58pm

databank

avatar

rogifan said:

I’m curious, if someone posts a video on YouTube does Google automatically place ads in the video and does the video poster get a cut of the ad revenue?

No, you have to choose to monetize the video when u upload it (at least that's what a Youtuber explained on a recent video), and when u do u must certyify that all the content is your property or declare what on it is someone else's property so they can have their share. Theorically you then get more or less 1 buck for each 1000 views with an ad (ie Adblock users don't contribute).

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #15 posted 12/10/17 7:03pm

Strive

Again, for the people who don't know how this stuff works,

View post on imgur.com


This one isn't the estate's fault. The guy forced their hand. YouTube explictly tells warns you about that before you file a counter-notice. And the fact is, he has no right to post those videos. The estate is going to steamroll him in court.

source of the pic: https://www.eff.org/issue...e-removals
[Edited 12/10/17 19:06pm]
no yesterday or tomorrow, no better remedy for sorrow
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Reply #16 posted 12/10/17 7:05pm

laurarichardso
n

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said:



rogifan said:


Just saw this on Twitter. Should the Estate really be wasting their time young after stuff like this? https://twitter.com/purpl...9411431425

How much time do you think it takes to file these complaints? Comerica is being watched by the court they are doing what the court order them to do. Trust if they do not do anything at SNJ will be the first to complain in fact they were complaining in the most recent court papers that Comercia was not doing enough about copyright infringement.


I’m sorry but what $$ is the Estate losing on that Twitter clip I posted? It’s a partial song clip. I’ll bet 99% of people posting live concert footage on YouTube aren’t making any money off it. Rather than suing people how about the estate work on getting live concerts out there for people to purchase? Just 4 off the top of my head that I’d purchase in a heartbeat: Coachella, Montreux 2009 & 2013, North Sea Jazz 2011.

Did you miss that all of the footage they have as been cataloged and that deals are on the table. No one is going to buy something if they can get it for free. So the free as to go and no one would should be making money off of his music. He was not okay with this when he was alive and well. Unless copyright laws have changed why would this have changed now that he gone.
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Reply #17 posted 12/10/17 7:22pm

babynoz

laurarichardson said:

purplethunder3121 said:

I was just thinking the same thing right before I read your response! Wondering how long it will take the blood suckers to run through millions of dollars...

What millions? Comerica is charging a flat fee for their services. Think about how much estate money the lawyers for SNJ are getting to get stopping the estate from making money with ridculous objections to five deals that are on the table.



Your problem is that you keep trying to take sides when the rest of us are speaking of all of the lawyers collectively, not any one in particular.

I'm not in the will so there is no reason for me to be too invested in the case. I just don't think there is any justification for the judge allowing any of the parties on either side to drag this case out any longer.

He wouldn't be the first judge to throw some attorneys a bone for a future favor such as campaign contributions or a good job when they leave the bench. This judge aint shit.

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #18 posted 12/11/17 1:14am

laurarichardso
n

babynoz said:



laurarichardson said:




purplethunder3121 said:



I was just thinking the same thing right before I read your response! Wondering how long it will take the blood suckers to run through millions of dollars...



What millions? Comerica is charging a flat fee for their services. Think about how much estate money the lawyers for SNJ are getting to get stopping the estate from making money with ridculous objections to five deals that are on the table.





Your problem is that you keep trying to take sides when the rest of us are speaking of all of the lawyers collectively, not any one in particular.

I'm not in the will so there is no reason for me to be too invested in the case. I just don't think there is any justification for the judge allowing any of the parties on either side to drag this case out any longer.

He wouldn't be the first judge to throw some attorneys a bone for a future favor such as campaign contributions or a good job when they leave the bench. This judge aint shit.


I am taking sides I am telling you what facts are. Remember it is the sibs who all choose to have their own individual attorneys. It is some if the sibs who keep going back to court bitching and complaining thus costing the estate more money. What in God’s green earth do you think Judge is actually doing that you feel is bias?
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Reply #19 posted 12/11/17 4:41am

rogifan

laurarichardson said:

rogifan said:


I’m sorry but what $$ is the Estate losing on that Twitter clip I posted? It’s a partial song clip. I’ll bet 99% of people posting live concert footage on YouTube aren’t making any money off it. Rather than suing people how about the estate work on getting live concerts out there for people to purchase? Just 4 off the top of my head that I’d purchase in a heartbeat: Coachella, Montreux 2009 & 2013, North Sea Jazz 2011.

Did you miss that all of the footage they have as been cataloged and that deals are on the table. No one is going to buy something if they can get it for free. So the free as to go and no one would should be making money off of his music. He was not okay with this when he was alive and well. Unless copyright laws have changed why would this have changed now that he gone.

Ok stop being dense. The clip from Twitter that I posted was only 2 minutes long. Most of the stuff I’ve downloaded from YouTube are short or partial live clips that come from crappy cell phone cameras. This is nothing like someone ripping a CD and uploading it. The sound and video quality is nothing like what an official release would be. The idea that people won’t buy official estate releases because of this stuff on YouTube is laughable. But seeing clips like this might get more people interested in Prince and they show what an incredible live performer he was. And just to be clear for those that have reading difficulties: I’m specifically talking about live performance clips NOT studio recordings.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #20 posted 12/11/17 5:12am

laurarichardso
n

rogifan said:

laurarichardson said:
Did you miss that all of the footage they have as been cataloged and that deals are on the table. No one is going to buy something if they can get it for free. So the free as to go and no one would should be making money off of his music. He was not okay with this when he was alive and well. Unless copyright laws have changed why would this have changed now that he gone.
Ok stop being dense. The clip from Twitter that I posted was only 2 minutes long. Most of the stuff I’ve downloaded from YouTube are short or partial live clips that come from crappy cell phone cameras. This is nothing like someone ripping a CD and uploading it. The sound and video quality is nothing like what an official release would be. The idea that people won’t buy official estate releases because of this stuff on YouTube is laughable. But seeing clips like this might get more people interested in Prince and they show what an incredible live performer he was. And just to be clear for those that have reading difficulties: I’m specifically talking about live performance clips NOT studio recordings.

The only person who is dense is you. Since YOUTUBE and file sharing has exsisted the sales of music have declined. There have been countless articles about this in the media going back over a decade.

Not one piece of evidence that free material drive actual sales.

Try to understand copyright laws at the basic level. No one is allowed to use material without permission or payment. It does not matter if it is 1 sec or 2 hours.

There are entire Prince concerts on line that go on for two hours. Why would anyone pay for this material when they can download it for free? Because they just want to give money away.

At this point anyone who does not know that he was a great live performer is not interested and giving away free content will not change that.

You seem to think that because you choose to ingnore facts and laws that those facts and laws are irrelevant but they are not. Courts that oversee estates do not just ignore things because some fans are going to be upset. If you think like this who is being dense.

Next you will be okay with the idiotic antics of SNJ.

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Reply #21 posted 12/11/17 5:00pm

babynoz

laurarichardson said:

babynoz said:



Your problem is that you keep trying to take sides when the rest of us are speaking of all of the lawyers collectively, not any one in particular.

I'm not in the will so there is no reason for me to be too invested in the case. I just don't think there is any justification for the judge allowing any of the parties on either side to drag this case out any longer.

He wouldn't be the first judge to throw some attorneys a bone for a future favor such as campaign contributions or a good job when they leave the bench. This judge aint shit.

I am taking sides I am telling you what facts are. Remember it is the sibs who all choose to have their own individual attorneys. It is some if the sibs who keep going back to court bitching and complaining thus costing the estate more money. What in God’s green earth do you think Judge is actually doing that you feel is bias?



Again, I don't care who is causing the delays because I'm not on anybody's side. No one is saying that the sibs don't share the blame for dragging this out, so calling them out repeatedly doesnt hurt my feelings. That's another problem. You are getting too far away from the topic and always trying to steer it toward what you want to talk about.

The only thing that should still be pending is the tidal dispute. All other issues should have been settled months ago. In this situation the only people who get over are the lawyers including the ones going after random youtubers. Even the assclown web sheriff had a method that he followed for dealing with people posting unauthorized content.

The more time this incompetent judge allows to be wasted with random fukery the less there will be for the heirs, the operation of PP and the ability for them to oversee Prince's legacy. The danger is and has always been that they will ultimately lose control of everything due to having no choice but to sell out.

Maybe that was the intention of drawing this bs out all along. You should know by now that everybody involved has their own agenda.

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #22 posted 12/11/17 5:41pm

cathys

laurarichardson said:



rogifan said:


laurarichardson said:


Try to understand copyright laws at the basic level. No one is allowed to use material without permission or payment. It does not matter if it is 1 sec or 2 hours.




You seem to think that because you choose to ingnore facts and laws that those facts and laws are irrelevant but they are not. Courts that oversee estates do not just ignore things because some fans are going to be upset. If you think like this who is being dense.


.


Anyone who understands copyright law at a basic level will know that copyright infringement is a tort, not a crime. It’s not a question of being ‘allowed’ to use material without permission or payment. If the copyright holder doesn’t object to someone doing these things, they are perfectly at liberty to proceed. And any sensible copyright holder will only enforce their rights if they have something to gain by doing so, i.e. if the infringement is causing them to lose money or reputation.

Laura, you frequently post on this issue but I have not heard you give one single convincing explanation as to exactly how the posting of two-minute cellphone videos online could adversely affect the Estate, either financially or in any other way. Remember, we’re talking poor quality snippets, not entire concerts.

In the absence of any adverse effect, the sensible course on the part of the Estate would be to ignore such postings and devote time and resources to infringements that do cause harm, such as sales of unauthorized merchandise. I’m sure any judge would take the same view.
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Reply #23 posted 12/11/17 5:49pm

morningsong

I wonder if they are simply going after, maybe not everyone, but certain types of infringements because it seems some shady stuff has already been pulled by folks, and they got caught because this company seems to be diligent and cover a lot of bases. Maybe this instance may not be a big deal in and of itself but there is too much trolling and other crap going on behind the scenes to give anyone an inch, you know what they say about giving someone an inch, they'll take a mile.

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Reply #24 posted 12/12/17 5:42am

laurarichardso
n

cathys said:

laurarichardson said:

And any sensible copyright holder will only enforce their rights if they have something to gain by doing so, i.e. if the infringement is causing them to lose money or reputation.

It has nothing to do with sensible since none can tell the copyright holder what is sensible for them.

Prince had things taken down all the time 1 min or 20 min. He even discussed covers and how people could do them without permission but thought they should have the decency to ask first.

You can bet your botton dollar that Disney corporation is not going to let you or anyone else stream one minute of any of their properties in fact Disney is setting up their own streaming network.

It should be no different for music. If the copyright holder does not want it to happen that is their choice it does not have to be sensible for you the non-owner.


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Reply #25 posted 12/12/17 5:43am

laurarichardso
n

laurarichardson said:

cathys said:

laurarichardson said:

And any sensible copyright holder will only enforce their rights if they have something to gain by doing so, i.e. if the infringement is causing them to lose money or reputation.

It has nothing to do with sensible since none can tell the copyright holder what is sensible for them.

Prince had things taken down all the time 1 min or 20 min. He even discussed covers and how people could do them without permission but thought they should have the decency to ask first.

You can bet your botton dollar that Disney corporation is not going to let you or anyone else stream one minute of any of their properties in fact Disney is setting up their own streaming network.

It should be no different for music. If the copyright holder does not want it to happen that is their choice it does not have to be sensible for you the non-owner.

You are wrong about how a judge would view it.


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Reply #26 posted 12/12/17 11:03am

rogifan

cathys said:

laurarichardson said:



rogifan said:


laurarichardson said:


Try to understand copyright laws at the basic level. No one is allowed to use material without permission or payment. It does not matter if it is 1 sec or 2 hours.




You seem to think that because you choose to ingnore facts and laws that those facts and laws are irrelevant but they are not. Courts that oversee estates do not just ignore things because some fans are going to be upset. If you think like this who is being dense.


.


Anyone who understands copyright law at a basic level will know that copyright infringement is a tort, not a crime. It’s not a question of being ‘allowed’ to use material without permission or payment. If the copyright holder doesn’t object to someone doing these things, they are perfectly at liberty to proceed. And any sensible copyright holder will only enforce their rights if they have something to gain by doing so, i.e. if the infringement is causing them to lose money or reputation.

Laura, you frequently post on this issue but I have not heard you give one single convincing explanation as to exactly how the posting of two-minute cellphone videos online could adversely affect the Estate, either financially or in any other way. Remember, we’re talking poor quality snippets, not entire concerts.

In the absence of any adverse effect, the sensible course on the part of the Estate would be to ignore such postings and devote time and resources to infringements that do cause harm, such as sales of unauthorized merchandise. I’m sure any judge would take the same view.

Yes, yes yes. Thank you.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #27 posted 12/12/17 12:52pm

laurarichardso
n

rogifan said:

cathys said: Yes, yes yes. Thank you.

No, No, No You cannot tell people what to do with their property. It is there decision as to how and when it can used. We saw this with Prince and Web Sheriff a million times.

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Reply #28 posted 12/12/17 1:14pm

luvsexy4all

isnt his estate essentially wasting money pursuing these type of law suits???

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Reply #29 posted 12/12/17 2:44pm

rogifan

laurarichardson said:



rogifan said:


cathys said: Yes, yes yes. Thank you.

No, No, No You cannot tell people what to do with their property. It is there decision as to how and when it can used. We saw this with Prince and Web Sheriff a million times.


Prince wasn’t required to take down every video on YouTube. And I didn’t always agree with him when he did. And you still haven’t shown how a 2 minute cell phone video posted to Twitter is costing the Estate. Pray tell what someone isn’t buying because this clip is out there. Now if something like Montreux 2013 comes out and people are selling DVDs yeah absolutely the Estate should shut that down. But it doesn’t need to be black and white.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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