laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

I can't imagine P doing one chore around the house It was some bubble he must have lived in.

—Nevermind the chef who said he walked behind her to make the glasses clean and the custodian he hired to clean Paisley Park who said Prince came behind him to check on him. Nevermine the butler at the Rio in Vegas who said Prince helped him set the breakfast table. Yes, he could put in an 20 day but did not no how to clean. I bet you do not know how to clean.

Listen strange person, P is not going to meet with you in the afterlife (that's if there is one). P did not wash the dishes, put out the trash, or so much as clean up after anyone. So stop pretending P did anything maintenance-oriented. An odd job here or there doesn't mean doing the chores.

I do know how to clean btw. I live independently and don't hire a cleaner.

fortuneandserendipity said:

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said: —Nevermind the chef who said he walked behind her to make the glasses clean and the custodian he hired to clean Paisley Park who said Prince came behind him to check on him. Nevermine the butler at the Rio in Vegas who said Prince helped him set the breakfast table. Yes, he could put in an 20 day but did not no how to clean. I bet you do not know how to clean.

Listen strange person, P is not going to meet with you in the afterlife (that's if there is one). P did not wash the dishes, put out the trash, or so much as clean up after anyone. So stop pretending P did anything maintenance-oriented. An odd job here or there doesn't mean doing the chores.

I do know how to clean btw. I live independently and don't hire a cleaner.

HYSTERICAL (and frighteningly true)...what other hope/fantasy could inspire such 24/7 non-stop rah-rah? I just had this flash of Prince meeting this strange person in some other dimension and saying, "you know, you talked too much, you embarassed me and yourself. Go away."

Bodhitheblackdog said:

purplerabbithole said:

Some good points there. I am going to speculate a great deal here...but why not?

Here is how i see it.. Many men (if not most) have a tendency to try to solve problems rather than just directly deal with how they feel. From my understanding, Mayte had been laying in bed hugging the urn for so many days she lost count. If I recall, he at one point snuck into the bed and laid next to her and quietly left. He also (I believe) stated that he couldn't stay in the house anymore. Meanwhile, the album that was a love note to his wife and (at the time) living child is being promoted and there are rumors swirling. I imagine that P thought that he was going to have to solve three problems at the same time--how to help his wife and himself cope, how to promote an independently-produced album that is a painful reminder of better days (that people counted on him to promote) and how to maintain his privacy. Having no idea how to help a wife who is inconsolable, he conjured up a fantasy or belief system that if you never say the words that the boy died than his soul will return (I believe Mayte alluded to a belief of P's that the soul of this child would just slip on to next one.) Maybe he went and wrote Comeback at that point (only to record a few years later) . So, then he tries a bit tough love...forces his wife to get out of bed to do the oprah interview and a few more (Gumbel) and says to her "I need you to do this for me". He tells the world (with his wife like they are an united front) that their family is "fine" so people won't dig into the painful reality and justifies to himself going on Muppets as a way to honor the fallen child and embrace future fatherhood. He tells the world that their family is fine to convince himself that it will be and to continue the dream started when he first starting writing the songs for Emancipation. When this fantasy is challenged later, he embraced a religion that shares some similar ideas...(JW's second resurrection belief)

HEre is the the problem with this kind of coping mechanism---its based on fantasy. Kind of like the infertile married couple in Who's Afraid of Virgina Woolf when they conjure up a child that never existed to keep their marriage together. Prince tried to force his coping mechanism on her and Mayte being in love with the man somewhat resentfully went along with it. She just wanted to feel what she felt and express what she felt for real (and probably wasn't ready to go out publically) Was P cruel? In a way, yes. But he could have been thinking that he had to be cruel to be kind and was starting to get a bit panicky about career and wife's emotional issues. I wonder sometimes if Mayte and others would be less upset with P if he had pushed her to do the interview but encouraged her to be open about what happened. ? The reality is that Mayte has discussed this loss in the public realm herself and with vivid detail (as soon as she was legally able.) . Obviously, she and P coped differently. But I have to say, at least, he didn't force her to speak on the matter. If I recall, when the subject of the child is brought up in both interviews (Gumbel and Oprah), P does the talking. I know he was the dominant one in many ways (not alwasys a good thing obviously) but it was his fantasy he was portraying.

right there tells you how old school he was. Prince was a liberal/open black oldschool/conservative man.

imo

[Edited 11/14/17 14:50pm]

[Edited 11/14/17 16:03pm]

[Edited 11/14/17 16:14pm]

i think that this is not over the top speculation, i think it is quite possible.

There is no brilliant explantion for death; Prince took a pill that he probably didn't know was laced with Fucking Fentynol or however it is spelled. It's a nation-wide epidemic. Doesn't matter where it came from; China is pumping it out by the billions in supposed pill form or otherwise. Sorry to interfere with your death thread; it's just that today, I'm fed up with it.

purplethunder3121 said:

purplefam99 said:

purplethunder3121 said:

There is no brilliant explantion for death; Prince took a pill that he probably didn't know was laced with Fucking Fentynol or however it is spelled. It's a nation-wide epidemic. Doesn't matter where it came from; China is pumping it out by the billions in supposed pill form or otherwise. Sorry to interfere with your death thread; it's just that today, I'm fed up with it.

No problem we all have those days. Hope you feel better and rest well tonight.

Thank you, but won't get rid of the speculative death threads.

laurarichardson said:

Morgaine said:

laurarichardson said:

Mayte has publicly stated that she wasn't there for him, either, that they were both lost. She also stated she had her "mask" on during the interview

Glad you acknowledged this since no one else has.

Her mother was not sitting next to her during the interview, though she appeared briefly with others who were asked how they addressed him.

Her mom was present during a portion of the interview. Don't you think she might have had something to say if he was forcing or dragging her to the interview. Once again common sense.

Utilizing and possessing "deduction and common sense" is not synonymous with facts, truth, or inherent knowledge. And it appears you have a great deal of bias against several people involved. Peace & Be Wild

How about the facts of what all of our eyes saw on the program and the fact that unless Mayte was paralyzed and unable to walk? ( which she appears able to do in the interview ) she could have just got up a left the interview. If one is distressed does one stay or go?

If you want to have something broken down to you like a five year old. Well you got it. Have a nice day.

Wow... it's incredible how much misery and contempt are interwoven in your replies to people you don't agree with. I never asked you to "break it down" for me...as bias towards people, povs, etc does not engender clarity. You also do not appear to be very knowledgeable or well-versed in how trauma affects people.

Thank you for your mature, compassionate and informed observation; we need more of that on the Org.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

purplethunder3121 said:

There is no brilliant explantion for death; Prince took a pill that he probably didn't know was laced with Fucking Fentynol

.

Prince took a pill of questionable content knowing that it came from a questionable source.

We can be quite sure that he did not get these pill from a regular channel (doctor, pharmacy).

Thus it was a conscious descision, a conscious risk.

I did already draw the trend line through various other instances where P's decisions, policy etc resulted in sub-par situations.

So to cut it short: it was his own fault; whether you look at the superficial incident or the broader situation around his supposed pain or even broader at his career, especially the last few decades.

All these things, and his chosen handling of them are as old as time.

Ineffective. Sad. Narcissistic. But his choices, so whatever.

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Morgaine said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Yes, it was a slippery slope made worse by his life-long habits of control, secrecy and denial. When you take a step back and look at all the factors arrayed against him, IMO it would have taken a miracle to save him from himself. He was never going to willingly (and with a full heart) participate in the therapy and drug rehab he so desperately needed. Tragic. He had everything...and what good did it do him?

He had everything most people are raised to want and seek - genius, fame, talent, drive, good looks, sense of humor, gorgeous mates and others throwing themselves at him. But he had no living children, no spouse/mate, all alone in an elevator of a fentanyl OD. One could surmise this says quite a bit about society, let alone the man.

Yes, a while back I described this saga as Greek Tragedy/Chanhassan-style...

udo said:

purplethunder3121 said:

There is no brilliant explantion for death; Prince took a pill that he probably didn't know was laced with Fucking Fentynol

.

Prince took a pill of questionable content knowing that it came from a questionable source.

We can be quite sure that he did not get these pill from a regular channel (doctor, pharmacy).

Thus it was a conscious descision, a conscious risk.

I did already draw the trend line through various other instances where P's decisions, policy etc resulted in sub-par situations.

So to cut it short: it was his own fault; whether you look at the superficial incident or the broader situation around his supposed pain or even broader at his career, especially the last few decades.

Thanks udo: it takes a lot of courage and dignity to tell the simple truth on the Org.

udo said:

purplethunder3121 said:

There is no brilliant explantion for death; Prince took a pill that he probably didn't know was laced with Fucking Fentynol

.

Prince took a pill of questionable content knowing that it came from a questionable source.

We can be quite sure that he did not get these pill from a regular channel (doctor, pharmacy).

Thus it was a conscious descision, a conscious risk.

I did already draw the trend line through various other instances where P's decisions, policy etc resulted in sub-par situations.

So to cut it short: it was his own fault; whether you look at the superficial incident or the broader situation around his supposed pain or even broader at his career, especially the last few decades.

That's not my point; yes, ultimately, Prince was responsible for taking a pill from questionable sources. But, my point is that I am weary of all of these death and conspiracy threads, whether the op thinks that Prince was murdered, committed suicide, or OD'd accidently. Just tired of the whole speculation. Can we get back to discussing the music and the meaning of it--which is what he left to us and all that we will ever have hereafter...

purplethunder3121 said:

But, my point is that I am weary of all of these death and conspiracy threads, whether the op thinks that Prince was murdered, committed suicide, or OD'd accidently. Just tired of the whole speculation. Can we get back to discussing the music and the meaning of it--which is what he left to us and all that we will ever have hereafter...

.

We first have to deal with more sub-par 'remaster' releases before we get any (decent?) vault material.

That is stuff enough to discuss.

I understand your point (I am not too fond of conspiracy theories especially ones that have him being murdered.) But what irks me about this is the lack of even a tiny bit of accountability for enablers and facilitators. LOok at Michael Jackson...if I recall, he asked to basically be knocked out with hard drugs every night in order to sleep, so the doctor who basically put him to sleep forever served jail time. I don't think the doctor intended to kill him anymore than whoever gave P the dangerous drugs intended his death to be the result but where one careless dumbass served time, the other one (if guilty) didn't even lose this job. (now if P died because of someone other than KJ enabling him than by all means, they should say so, so that KJ's suspicions can go away)

Elvis' enablers were called out for doing so. Whitney's hubby was called out as being a co-dependent addict with her. Amy Winehouse's horrible enabling dad was called to task in the documentary about her...etc. Prince's drugs somehow fell out of the sky, delivered to him magically through P's own force of will. No understanding of how a drug addicted man who was super famous and very private obtained illegal blackmarket pills. No truth. No accountability for anyone but himself. He paid the ultimate price for his mistakes and addictions but everyone else seemed to have benefited. HIs family is being scrutinized but they could have just let the bank take over and move on with their lives without the money he earned. To all the people around him, he seemed worth more dead than alive.

purplethunder3121 said:

udo said:

.

Prince took a pill of questionable content knowing that it came from a questionable source.

We can be quite sure that he did not get these pill from a regular channel (doctor, pharmacy).

Thus it was a conscious descision, a conscious risk.

I did already draw the trend line through various other instances where P's decisions, policy etc resulted in sub-par situations.

So to cut it short: it was his own fault; whether you look at the superficial incident or the broader situation around his supposed pain or even broader at his career, especially the last few decades.

That's not my point; yes, ultimately, Prince was responsible for taking a pill from questionable sources. But, my point is that I am weary of all of these death and conspiracy threads, whether the op thinks that Prince was murdered, committed suicide, or OD'd accidently. Just tired of the whole speculation. Can we get back to discussing the music and the meaning of it--which is what he left to us and all that we will ever have hereafter...

purplerabbithole said:

To all the people around him, he seemed worth more dead than alive.

.

That is a true statement.

Damn, your previous comment and your celebration of my last comment makes you sounds like a Prince hater.

udo said:

purplerabbithole said:

To all the people around him, he seemed worth more dead than alive.

.

That is a true statement.

udo said:

purplerabbithole said:

To all the people around him, he seemed worth more dead than alive.

.

That is a true statement.

Yes PRH, thank you for your entire thoughtful post...but this last statement is the most gut-wrenching...especially as he was smart and sensitive enough to know it...can you possibly imagine how that made him feel after decades of 'showing his heart' to millions and only wishing for their love and happiness? This is even worse than him dying...

Bodhitheblackdog said:

udo said:

.

That is a true statement.

Yes PRH, thank you for your entire thoughtful post...but this last statement is the most gut-wrenching...especially as he was smart and sensitive enough to know it...can you possibly imagine how that made him feel after decades of 'showing his heart' to millions and only wishing for their love and happiness? This is even worse than him dying...

yes

I have very very mixed feelings about all of this...I must reiterate and clairfy.

This is partly why books like Mayte's are upsetting to me... But I try to remind myself that human beings are complex and can have more than one thought in their head at a time. I try to think that people like Shelby, Kim etc were legitimately upset when he died and then just tried to make the best of things when the press came calling for interviews. Often people justify things in their minds by saying to themselves that 'exploiting' a rock star's death for personal gain is really just maintaining and expanding his legacy of music etc. (the whole Purple Family stuff at times seems opportunistic and at other times seems like a nice tribute to what the man started) I like to think that people aren't just self-aggrandizing opportunists. But it gets hard and harder to do so when people don't also call for accountability for enablers whilst doing so. One thing that is definitely not better since P's death (musically and commercially) is that he no longer around to perform live. If W and L are to believed, they are losing money doing the Revolution tours so maybe just maybe the best way they can continue to connect with P and their time with P is to do the music live. I just wish they would expand that generosity to music they had nothing to do with in the first place.

I don't mind people exploitng thier musical connections to P for career gains especially since they would have been doing that when he was alive; I just wish the same people would occasionally just talk about the man himself away from them, and also show either regret or disdain for how his death went down. I like Van Jones because he expressed guilt; I like Morris Hays and John Blackwell because they did as well. Shelby acts like everything was hunky dory and I am not sure what I think about that. But who knows? Maybe she is just trying to protect his reputation. I guess we can't know what is in people's hearts,but like I said, the lack of accountability keeps drifting me towards cynicism and I really hate that feeling.

ThatWhiteDude said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

Yes PRH, thank you for your entire thoughtful post...but this last statement is the most gut-wrenching...especially as he was smart and sensitive enough to know it...can you possibly imagine how that made him feel after decades of 'showing his heart' to millions and only wishing for their love and happiness? This is even worse than him dying...

yes

[Edited 11/18/17 9:17am]

StopIt said:

Bodhitheblackdog said:

So everything was just about his narcisism (wrecking his body was because he loved himself too much?) . He didn't do it for the music or his fans?> Heartless way of looking at it in my opinion.

purplefam99 said:

StopIt said:

All these things, and his chosen handling of them are as old as time.

Ineffective. Sad. Narcissistic. But his choices, so whatever.

Consice and correct.

purplerabbithole said:

purplerabbithole said:

It is benefitting Sheila E and Mayte Garcia and the photography book writers, that's for sure.

Many of tehm weren't benefiting much right before he died when he was no longer working with them. Now, that he has died, many of them (not KJ, so much but his status has stayed about the same) are back in the purple army and professionally attached to him again. Whether it does them any good, who knows? But many of them are touring and making some money as former members of NPG et cetera. When I say his death benefits them, I am not saying working directly with him woudn't have benefited them more but since he was working alone at the time of his death, their connection to him post mordem is almost as strong as it was when they were in his employment.

Like I said, I have mixed mixed feelings.

purplefam99 said:

purplerabbithole said:

I understand your point (I am not too fond of conspiracy theories especially ones that have him being murdered.) But what irks me about this is the lack of even a tiny bit of accountability for enablers and facilitators. LOok at Michael Jackson...if I recall, he asked to basically be knocked out with hard drugs every night in order to sleep, so the doctor who basically put him to sleep forever served jail time. I don't think the doctor intended to kill him anymore than whoever gave P the dangerous drugs intended his death to be the result but where one careless dumbass served time, the other one (if guilty) didn't even lose this job. (now if P died because of someone other than KJ enabling him than by all means, they should say so, so that KJ's suspicions can go away)

Elvis' enablers were called out for doing so. Whitney's hubby was called out as being a co-dependent addict with her. Amy Winehouse's horrible enabling dad was called to task in the documentary about her...etc. Prince's drugs somehow fell out of the sky, delivered to him magically through P's own force of will. No understanding of how a drug addicted man who was super famous and very private obtained illegal blackmarket pills. No truth. No accountability for anyone but himself. He paid the ultimate price for his mistakes and addictions but everyone else seemed to have benefited. HIs family is being scrutinized but they could have just let the bank take over and move on with their lives without the money he earned. To all the people around him, he seemed worth more dead than alive.

And how now exactly are these people worth more. Speaking more about the enablers If he was worth more dead how are they now? Is Kirk, Judith etc.worth more? I’m asking. I don’t want to speak about the family, just the inner circle. How have they benefited I don’t really see any or much change.