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Reply #60 posted 11/09/17 3:34pm

kingricefan

Thanks for posting this! I never knew what was said at the beginning of the song.

OldFriends4Sale said:

"Le Grind"

So U found me
Good, I'm glad
This is Prince
The cool of cools
Some of U may not know this
But some of U may know
Some of U may not want 2 know
We r here 2 do service
Please don't try 2 stop us
4 we come regardless
4 we r strong as we r intelligent

So come vibe with us
Welcome to the Funk Bible
The new testament

11661-prince-black-album.jpg

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Reply #61 posted 11/09/17 3:35pm

kingricefan

They are said in a very low voice at the very beginning of the song when the music starts. I could never make out what he was saying.

CoolMF said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

"Le Grind"

So U found me
Good, I'm glad
This is Prince
The cool of cools
Some of U may not know this
But some of U may know
Some of U may not want 2 know
We r here 2 do service
Please don't try 2 stop us
4 we come regardless
4 we r strong as we r intelligent

So come vibe with us
Welcome to the Funk Bible
The new testament

11661-prince-black-album.jpg

Huh? Where do the lyrics (in bold) at the top come from? Is there another version of Le Grind?

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Reply #62 posted 11/09/17 4:06pm

SoulAlive

..
[Edited 11/10/17 1:07am]
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Reply #63 posted 11/09/17 4:59pm

bonatoc

avatar

CoolMF said:

Huh? Where do the lyrics (in bold) at the top come from? Is there another version of Le Grind?



Some guy obviously sped up the tape to transcribe what slowed-down Prince (as God? as Bob George?) is saying.

Africa, Cap'n Crunch, Norma Jean, Sex and Cheerio's
Play my record double speed, feel the climax fit 4 a king
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Reply #64 posted 11/09/17 5:20pm

214

bonatoc said:

214 said:

No much to be explained, as an artistic statement is great, a great story behind it, however, in my opinion the lyrics and music are not up to the previous album, they are not strong enough except for Bob George and Rock Hard. Having being recorded right before Lovesexy makes it a great artistic move, indeed but that alone doesn't make it a great album music and lyric wise.


So you're defending the theory this was all planned from the beginning?
Withdrawal from the shelves and all ?

Perhaps it was, if so, he was a genius. Either way, a great artistic move.

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Reply #65 posted 11/09/17 5:22pm

214

SimonCharles said:

214 said:

No much to be explained, as an artistic statement is great, a great story behind it, however, in my opinion the lyrics and music are not up to the previous album, they are not strong enough except for Bob George and Rock Hard. Having being recorded right before Lovesexy makes it a great artistic move, indeed but that alone doesn't make it a great album music and lyric wise.

I've been thinking about this since posting my "challenging" response.

I would argue that only Cincy C and Dead On It are questionable in quality, and I love Dead On It, it makes me laugh. Le Grind is a gem and once you get beyond When 2 R In Love - which sounds SO out of place here - the rest of the album is inspired. Bob George - scary genius. Superfunkycalifragisexy - superfunkycalifragisexy genius. 2 Nigs United 4 West Compton - fusion genius. Rock Hard in a Funky Place - coy/lewd genius. It is an album full of humour and glorious noise.

The story that accompanies it helps gild the myth, yes. I would argue, however, that muscially it creates a beautiful trio with SOTT and Lovesexy.

More so with SOTT.

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Reply #66 posted 11/09/17 6:24pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

paisleypark4 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

like the Camille project

How could/would this album be promoted?

Singles, Bsides, videos, shows and concert setlists?

There is a possibility that we were already seeing the 'fashion' style for bandmembers...

the Sheila E Birthday Music

the Funk Bible

Spooky Electric

Camille

Blue Tuesday

Image result for all black everything

Only two singles relase for this album would be:

When 2 R In Love

and

Le Grind ( radio edit)

Possible single release "Cindy C. (radio edit)

None of the songs really had any commercial appeal other than When 2 R In Love for R&B stations. I would have told Prince to quickly come up with a more marketable album in the next year or so. This was not one to go on tour with.


I agree Le Grind, Cindy C, When 2 R in Love are the strongest songs that could have been released as obvious singles.

.

When 2 R in Love to me goes beyond an 'RnB' specific vibe, almost like metalic folk or something

.

BUT I have no doubt Bob George would have been a very popular song in 1988 and could be released as a single too

.

I also think SuperfunkiCaliFragiSexy is hookable and dancible and could be easily radio play

.

Now also remember this is still Prince, so he could tour it and mix it in with other songs of his, because during this period it was still 'Purple Music' ie it was uniquely a Prince sound.

Not to mention SuperfunkiCaliFragiSexy Dead On it, Bob George and one or two others were performed during the Lovesexy tour and aftershows.

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #67 posted 11/09/17 6:26pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

RodeoSchro said:

Sometime in '88 or '89, one of my wife's high school classmates told her that she had married an artist from Minneapolis and they lived there now. My wife mentioned I was a big Prince fan and her friend said, "My husband sold him some art! We have something you might like."

A few days later, a cassette came in the mail. It was a copy of the Black Album.

were U a hardcore Prince fan at this time?

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #68 posted 11/09/17 6:35pm

214

Rock Hard could have been a single too.

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Reply #69 posted 11/09/17 11:52pm

SimonCharles

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

SimonCharles said:

Yep - just checked. 2 Nigs United 4 West Compton is still absolutely funky as hell. What a suitably delicious way to finish a day.

I've alway enjoyed that one. I love drums and percussions, but there is a part going toward the end where it goes a little to long.

I think Sheila E came up with the title

Too long!? Not to these ears! biggrin

Words are like shoes...
Try my shoes on...
https://simoncwilliamsblo...press.com/
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Reply #70 posted 11/09/17 11:53pm

SimonCharles

avatar

SimonCharles said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I've alway enjoyed that one. I love drums and percussions, but there is a part going toward the end where it goes a little to long.

I think Sheila E came up with the title

Too long!? Not to these ears! biggrin

Actually, I do see what you mean...I just loves it!

Words are like shoes...
Try my shoes on...
https://simoncwilliamsblo...press.com/
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Reply #71 posted 11/10/17 1:05am

SoulAlive

It's hard to imagine radio stations playing these songs

(lol),but I think "Le Grind" might have worked on R&B radio.I would have chosen it as the first single.A few months later,"When 2 R In Love" could have been the second single.Again,this would work on R&B stations.Pop radio would have ignored these songs completely.

OldFriends4Sale said:

How could/would this album be promoted?

Singles, Bsides,

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Reply #72 posted 11/10/17 1:37am

databank

avatar

NorthC said:

bonatoc said:


You got to admit, this opening line is a strong advocate for the cancelled-on-purpose theory.
Very good arguments have been made over the years for the ecstasy incident being the main reason,
but it's not like he didn't woke up sober the following days.

Let's also remember this is a guy frustrated like hell after the Dream Factory / Crystal Ball / Camille debacle.
There is still a possibility that, aside from the main reason, Prince took the bootleg path on purpose, just to see
if there was a demand for his music outside of a record company.

Also, you don't perform Superfunkycalifragisexy and Bob George on every single show
if you don't want people to pay attention to the record.

Maybe when Prince realized there was no way to get any money outside the standard distribution circuits (yet),
he simply changed his message about bootlegs. There were already plenty of reasons to justify his cult artist status,
but the bootlegs engraved it in stone. It's a pity the 1986 production got out this way, but at the same time, for us,
it was like a second revelation : we knew he was a genius, but we weren't even close.

Like I said before, this was supposed to be an anonymous release as "Something" by "Somebody" so then the line "U found me" makes perfect sense and we don't need any conspiracy "canceled on purpose" theories. And I never took XTC, and yes of course, you wake up sober the next day, but I know that there's mind altering experiences that change your way of thinking (to use a Bob Dylan quote) for the rest of your life.

nod

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #73 posted 11/10/17 2:02am

databank

avatar

214 said:

bonatoc said:


So you're defending the theory this was all planned from the beginning?
Withdrawal from the shelves and all ?

Perhaps it was, if so, he was a genius. Either way, a great artistic move.

The problem with defending the conspiracy TBA theory is a problem of methodology.

How do we try and interpret modern, documented historical events?

We use sources. We try and evaluate how reliable those sources are (mostly by seeing if they contradict each other).

We can be tempted to come-up with a new explaination for something but then we must confront it to sources, or find new sources.

If no source corroborates a theory, the theory has to be thrown to the dustbin at least until new sources support it at a later point, if ever. Period.

.

Regarding TBA we have 3 types of sources:

- Prince himself

- People who were directly involved with the TBA events one way or another

- People who were not directly involved but who were around Prince in late 87 and 1988

All sources, without exception, give us the same story. Even better, since most of those people didn't witness the same things (Susan Rogers' experience of Prince on ecstasy is different from Mo Ostin's experience of Prince asking him to withdraw the project), if you piece together all the various pieces of the puzzle, you still end-up with a perfectly cohesive story.

There is no contradiction. None at all.

.

So yes, of course, it could have been that Prince had planned the whole event and told no one. But look, at some point, given how many people have problems dealing with reality and let their own cognitive biases twist their judgement, we cant allow ourselves to think like that. It's the end of science and rationality. It's the end of human intelligence. If we're going to treat all theories equal just because it seems so plausible to someone that it has to be true, then it means that those people who claim Prince took drugs his whole life, that he was gay, that he leaked bootlegs on purpose, that he didn't die and now publicly appears as Tyka Nelson, that he composed love songs for Vanity in the late 90's, that Ronald Reagan secretly worked with USSR to weaken the USA in the 80's, that Donald Trump is an alien from outer space, that men lived among dinosaurs and that the Earth is flat are just as right as anyone else, aren't they?

.

At some point, you have to confront your personal theories, no matter how beautiful they seem to you, with reality, i.e. facts and/or sources. In the case of TBA, all sources say it didn't happen that way. This is not a debate where we can confront ideas or conflicual facts. There is no more debate regarding TBA than there is about a flat Earth and this has to be understood very clearly. There is no debate. This is truth vs. lie. This is sanity vs. madness. Until a new reliable source says otherwise, anyone who claims Prince planned the whole TBA thing was a scheme by Prince is either a liar or a fool. Period.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #74 posted 11/10/17 2:04am

databank

avatar

bonatoc said:

databank said:

There's really nothing that shocking on DM beyond Head (unfaithful blowjob on wedding day) and Sister (incest). Those 2 were the big thing, and they were really provocative for sure, but the rest is your usual nastiness even if I'll admit that it was very nasty for 1980.

.

On TBA we have well... a tourbook of decadence, no less! Sodomy, group sex, S&M, drinking human blood, eating squirrel meat, brothels and prostitution, models acting as escorts, that's for sex only and I'm sure I'm forgetting some. The character of Brother Louis is scary as hell: the visuals suggested in Superfunkycalifragisexy basically merge the Gett Off music video with Texas Chainsaw Massacre (well, technically that's what Soft Cell had done with the banned video for Sex Dwarf, only it's unlikely Prince would have seen it at the time since it was unaired). Then we have frustrated lower class losers torturing, possibly raping and shooting their unfaithful wives before going on a mass shooting; Prince adressing a well known model by name and publicly offering to pay her to fuck her; Prince bashing a whole popular genre of music, bashing managers, bashing arty-farty people, and even actually bashing himself! That's a lot of fucked up things for one album! Tipper Gore would have had a heart attack hearing this!

And of course, the whole thing goes with infectious grooves, unconventional and often hard to grasp musical arrangements and song structures that would have terrified any casual Top 40 listener. It was, for all purpose and intent, a highly experimental record, probably Prince's least radio-friendly project ever by then (with the exception maybe of 16, which came right before TBA, almost as a warning that things would get slightly more agressive in the paisley world).

.

Hilarious as it is if one has a sense of dark humor, I would not call it a sketch show either: there's a very dark subtext to it, as with most of P's works it's multidimentional and multilayered. Prince conceived it as an expression of his anger and frustration, and both are there, with a particularly strong sense of desperation in Rock Hard, which happens to be the closer and leaves a bitter impression to the listener. It is humorous and provocative, but it is also dark, angry and disgusting. It would missing a lot to quickly dismiss it as a mere farce.

.

This is what shocked me when I listened to it carefully, over and over, a few years back, with a perspective I didn't have when I was younger: it's a super strong lyrical and musical statement, it's incredibly daring and it's as complex as anything else Prince was doing at the time. It looks somewhat more hastily done on a superficial listen, and maybe also because we have this notion of "an album compiled from outtakes" in our minds, but each and every Prince record from the 80's sounds rushed and sketchy to a certain extent, and that's precisely what makes them so strong, gives them this feeling of urgency. Besides, if you listen to it carefully, TBA really has as many layers in the mix and unusual sound palettes as SOTT or LS. I don't mean to undermine SOTT nor LS, I find both to be extraordinary records, but TBA stands among them as one of Prince's strongest works, if only because of its ambitious concept.


Bravo.
Hope this makes the ones who think this is just a funny little album that can be ignored,
reconsider their point of view.

Oh, and let's forget about "haste" and "too fast" once and for all when it comes to Prince, shall we?
A guy that laids out, say, WDC in under 48 hours (mix included!) should not be judged on these terms.
Especially when the vast majority of his production has followed this same pattern.

nod

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #75 posted 11/10/17 7:50am

paulludvig

databank said:

214 said:

Perhaps it was, if so, he was a genius. Either way, a great artistic move.

The problem with defending the conspiracy TBA theory is a problem of methodology.

How do we try and interpret modern, documented historical events?

We use sources. We try and evaluate how reliable those sources are (mostly by seeing if they contradict each other).

We can be tempted to come-up with a new explaination for something but then we must confront it to sources, or find new sources.

If no source corroborates a theory, the theory has to be thrown to the dustbin at least until new sources support it at a later point, if ever. Period.

.

Regarding TBA we have 3 types of sources:

- Prince himself

- People who were directly involved with the TBA events one way or another

- People who were not directly involved but who were around Prince in late 87 and 1988

All sources, without exception, give us the same story. Even better, since most of those people didn't witness the same things (Susan Rogers' experience of Prince on ecstasy is different from Mo Ostin's experience of Prince asking him to withdraw the project), if you piece together all the various pieces of the puzzle, you still end-up with a perfectly cohesive story.

There is no contradiction. None at all.

.

So yes, of course, it could have been that Prince had planned the whole event and told no one. But look, at some point, given how many people have problems dealing with reality and let their own cognitive biases twist their judgement, we cant allow ourselves to think like that. It's the end of science and rationality. It's the end of human intelligence. If we're going to treat all theories equal just because it seems so plausible to someone that it has to be true, then it means that those people who claim Prince took drugs his whole life, that he was gay, that he leaked bootlegs on purpose, that he didn't die and now publicly appears as Tyka Nelson, that he composed love songs for Vanity in the late 90's, that Ronald Reagan secretly worked with USSR to weaken the USA in the 80's, that Donald Trump is an alien from outer space, that men lived among dinosaurs and that the Earth is flat are just as right as anyone else, aren't they?

.

At some point, you have to confront your personal theories, no matter how beautiful they seem to you, with reality, i.e. facts and/or sources. In the case of TBA, all sources say it didn't happen that way. This is not a debate where we can confront ideas or conflicual facts. There is no more debate regarding TBA than there is about a flat Earth and this has to be understood very clearly. There is no debate. This is truth vs. lie. This is sanity vs. madness. Until a new reliable source says otherwise, anyone who claims Prince planned the whole TBA thing was a scheme by Prince is either a liar or a fool. Period.

It is just that this cohesive story doesn't make much sense

The wooh is on the one!
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Reply #76 posted 11/10/17 7:56am

paulludvig

databank said:

BoraBora said:



The lyrics are less provocative than "Dirty Mind" that was released 7 years before TBA, so I can't see the point.

I agree with you on the definition "Bloody hilarious" and "Masterpiece of Pop Dark Humor", but it is nowhere the accomplished level of SOTT and Lovesexy.
It's a great sketch-show, and I'm not sayin' this with negative meanings.




There's really nothing that shocking on DM beyond Head (unfaithful blowjob on wedding day) and Sister (incest). Those 2 were the big thing, and they were really provocative for sure, but the rest is your usual nastiness even if I'll admit that it was very nasty for 1980.

.

On TBA we have well... a tourbook of decadence, no less! Sodomy, group sex, S&M, drinking human blood, eating squirrel meat, brothels and prostitution, models acting as escorts, that's for sex only and I'm sure I'm forgetting some. The character of Brother Louis is scary as hell: the visuals suggested in Superfunkycalifragisexy basically merge the Gett Off music video with Texas Chainsaw Massacre (well, technically that's what Soft Cell had done with the banned video for Sex Dwarf, only it's unlikely Prince would have seen it at the time since it was unaired). Then we have frustrated lower class losers torturing, possibly raping and shooting their unfaithful wives before going on a mass shooting; Prince adressing a well known model by name and publicly offering to pay her to fuck her; Prince bashing a whole popular genre of music, bashing managers, bashing arty-farty people, and even actually bashing himself! That's a lot of fucked up things for one album! Tipper Gore would have had a heart attack hearing this!

And of course, the whole thing goes with infectious grooves, unconventional and often hard to grasp musical arrangements and song structures that would have terrified any casual Top 40 listener. It was, for all purpose and intent, a highly experimental record, probably Prince's least radio-friendly project ever by then (with the exception maybe of 16, which came right before TBA, almost as a warning that things would get slightly more agressive in the paisley world).

.

Hilarious as it is if one has a sense of dark humor, I would not call it a sketch show either: there's a very dark subtext to it, as with most of P's works it's multidimentional and multilayered. Prince conceived it as an expression of his anger and frustration, and both are there, with a particularly strong sense of desperation in Rock Hard, which happens to be the closer and leaves a bitter impression to the listener. It is humorous and provocative, but it is also dark, angry and disgusting. It would missing a lot to quickly dismiss it as a mere farce.

.

This is what shocked me when I listened to it carefully, over and over, a few years back, with a perspective I didn't have when I was younger: it's a super strong lyrical and musical statement, it's incredibly daring and it's as complex as anything else Prince was doing at the time. It looks somewhat more hastily done on a superficial listen, and maybe also because we have this notion of "an album compiled from outtakes" in our minds, but each and every Prince record from the 80's sounds rushed and sketchy to a certain extent, and that's precisely what makes them so strong, gives them this feeling of urgency. Besides, if you listen to it carefully, TBA really has as many layers in the mix and unusual sound palettes as SOTT or LS. I don't mean to undermine SOTT nor LS, I find both to be extraordinary records, but TBA stands among them as one of Prince's strongest works, if only because of its ambitious concept.

yes

The wooh is on the one!
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Reply #77 posted 11/10/17 8:11am

databank

avatar

paulludvig said:

databank said:

The problem with defending the conspiracy TBA theory is a problem of methodology.

How do we try and interpret modern, documented historical events?

We use sources. We try and evaluate how reliable those sources are (mostly by seeing if they contradict each other).

We can be tempted to come-up with a new explaination for something but then we must confront it to sources, or find new sources.

If no source corroborates a theory, the theory has to be thrown to the dustbin at least until new sources support it at a later point, if ever. Period.

.

Regarding TBA we have 3 types of sources:

- Prince himself

- People who were directly involved with the TBA events one way or another

- People who were not directly involved but who were around Prince in late 87 and 1988

All sources, without exception, give us the same story. Even better, since most of those people didn't witness the same things (Susan Rogers' experience of Prince on ecstasy is different from Mo Ostin's experience of Prince asking him to withdraw the project), if you piece together all the various pieces of the puzzle, you still end-up with a perfectly cohesive story.

There is no contradiction. None at all.

.

So yes, of course, it could have been that Prince had planned the whole event and told no one. But look, at some point, given how many people have problems dealing with reality and let their own cognitive biases twist their judgement, we cant allow ourselves to think like that. It's the end of science and rationality. It's the end of human intelligence. If we're going to treat all theories equal just because it seems so plausible to someone that it has to be true, then it means that those people who claim Prince took drugs his whole life, that he was gay, that he leaked bootlegs on purpose, that he didn't die and now publicly appears as Tyka Nelson, that he composed love songs for Vanity in the late 90's, that Ronald Reagan secretly worked with USSR to weaken the USA in the 80's, that Donald Trump is an alien from outer space, that men lived among dinosaurs and that the Earth is flat are just as right as anyone else, aren't they?

.

At some point, you have to confront your personal theories, no matter how beautiful they seem to you, with reality, i.e. facts and/or sources. In the case of TBA, all sources say it didn't happen that way. This is not a debate where we can confront ideas or conflicual facts. There is no more debate regarding TBA than there is about a flat Earth and this has to be understood very clearly. There is no debate. This is truth vs. lie. This is sanity vs. madness. Until a new reliable source says otherwise, anyone who claims Prince planned the whole TBA thing was a scheme by Prince is either a liar or a fool. Period.

It is just that this cohesive story doesn't make much sense

.

If you mean in terms of personality, based on Prince's history of erratic behaviors and religious obsessions, and adding to that the strong experiences provided by ecstasy (and I know first hand), I think it does, very much. Apparently, it also did to most of the people involved since none of them ever suggested any conspiracy theory. Last but not least, putting up that whole story together (taking xtc in front of witnesses for the sole purpose of making it believable to historians, given that Prtince didn't make it public and that it wasn't revealed before years after the facts, by third parties), makes it for a far more fantastic story, doesn't it?

.

But your comment suggests that you keep missing my point. It's not about whether it make sense to me or it doesn't to you. It's about sources and facts. Sorry for the Godwin Point but Hitler declaring war to the USSR doesn't make much sense, neither does Hirohito declaring war to the USA, because most analysts agreed at the time that Germany and Japan were going to lose, while they could have won the war by keeping it on the existing fronts and waiting until they'd win over their existing foes before attacking greater powers. Are we to believe someone who would claim, against all existing sources, that Hitler was secretly working for Stalin or that Hirohito's secret dream was to destroy the Japanese nation just because it seems to make more sense?

.

Let's put an end to this ridiculous discussion. You conspiracy theorists need to pull yourselves together. No offense meant. You're all just wasting my time (and I'm doing this for the sake of history, because I know many new fans, among them many kids, are now on the Org, willing to learn from older fans, and eager to believe the knowledge we pass on to them).

[Edited 11/10/17 8:13am]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #78 posted 11/10/17 8:11am

databank

avatar

paulludvig said:

databank said:

There's really nothing that shocking on DM beyond Head (unfaithful blowjob on wedding day) and Sister (incest). Those 2 were the big thing, and they were really provocative for sure, but the rest is your usual nastiness even if I'll admit that it was very nasty for 1980.

.

On TBA we have well... a tourbook of decadence, no less! Sodomy, group sex, S&M, drinking human blood, eating squirrel meat, brothels and prostitution, models acting as escorts, that's for sex only and I'm sure I'm forgetting some. The character of Brother Louis is scary as hell: the visuals suggested in Superfunkycalifragisexy basically merge the Gett Off music video with Texas Chainsaw Massacre (well, technically that's what Soft Cell had done with the banned video for Sex Dwarf, only it's unlikely Prince would have seen it at the time since it was unaired). Then we have frustrated lower class losers torturing, possibly raping and shooting their unfaithful wives before going on a mass shooting; Prince adressing a well known model by name and publicly offering to pay her to fuck her; Prince bashing a whole popular genre of music, bashing managers, bashing arty-farty people, and even actually bashing himself! That's a lot of fucked up things for one album! Tipper Gore would have had a heart attack hearing this!

And of course, the whole thing goes with infectious grooves, unconventional and often hard to grasp musical arrangements and song structures that would have terrified any casual Top 40 listener. It was, for all purpose and intent, a highly experimental record, probably Prince's least radio-friendly project ever by then (with the exception maybe of 16, which came right before TBA, almost as a warning that things would get slightly more agressive in the paisley world).

.

Hilarious as it is if one has a sense of dark humor, I would not call it a sketch show either: there's a very dark subtext to it, as with most of P's works it's multidimentional and multilayered. Prince conceived it as an expression of his anger and frustration, and both are there, with a particularly strong sense of desperation in Rock Hard, which happens to be the closer and leaves a bitter impression to the listener. It is humorous and provocative, but it is also dark, angry and disgusting. It would missing a lot to quickly dismiss it as a mere farce.

.

This is what shocked me when I listened to it carefully, over and over, a few years back, with a perspective I didn't have when I was younger: it's a super strong lyrical and musical statement, it's incredibly daring and it's as complex as anything else Prince was doing at the time. It looks somewhat more hastily done on a superficial listen, and maybe also because we have this notion of "an album compiled from outtakes" in our minds, but each and every Prince record from the 80's sounds rushed and sketchy to a certain extent, and that's precisely what makes them so strong, gives them this feeling of urgency. Besides, if you listen to it carefully, TBA really has as many layers in the mix and unusual sound palettes as SOTT or LS. I don't mean to undermine SOTT nor LS, I find both to be extraordinary records, but TBA stands among them as one of Prince's strongest works, if only because of its ambitious concept.

yes

Glad we agree on that hug

Regardless of its story, the album is there for all to enjoy biggrin

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #79 posted 11/10/17 10:16am

Se7en

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I told this story before on here.

My mom (who would've been 43 at the time) worked a basic office job, but she worked with a much younger black graphic designer. He was probably in his early 20s.

In the course of conversation, she mentioned that her son (me) was a big Prince fan. I was 17 at the time that TBA was supposed to come out.

So my mom's coworker brought a cassette tape in to work for her to give to me. I remember LOVING the album and cherishing that cassette for a very long time, at least until 1994 when the offical CD was released.

One funny thing though - which I didn't know until I got the CD - he had recorded Side B onto the first side of the cassette. So for years I always thought the album started with Bob George.

-----

As far as conspiracies and stuff goes, I had always read/heard that he had a bad trip, had a spiritual moment of clarity and pulled the album because it was too dark. More or less, that's the official story. But I'm open to it being something as simple as "Hey Prince, our test markets are not polling well with this new darker material . . . people want something light and positive. What else do you have?". Who knows.

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Reply #80 posted 11/10/17 10:40am

databank

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Se7en said:

I told this story before on here.

My mom (who would've been 43 at the time) worked a basic office job, but she worked with a much younger black graphic designer. He was probably in his early 20s.

In the course of conversation, she mentioned that her son (me) was a big Prince fan. I was 17 at the time that TBA was supposed to come out.

So my mom's coworker brought a cassette tape in to work for her to give to me. I remember LOVING the album and cherishing that cassette for a very long time, at least until 1994 when the offical CD was released.

One funny thing though - which I didn't know until I got the CD - he had recorded Side B onto the first side of the cassette. So for years I always thought the album started with Bob George.

-----

As far as conspiracies and stuff goes, I had always read/heard that he had a bad trip, had a spiritual moment of clarity and pulled the album because it was too dark. More or less, that's the official story.

No, it's not the "official" story. The "official" story is it was too dark and Prince had a vision of God and pulled it back. The drugs part was never the "official" story, we didn't know anything about it from Prince or WB, it was all third parties, years after it happened.

But I'm open to it being something as simple as "Hey Prince, our test markets are not polling well with this new darker material . . . people want something light and positive. What else do you have?". Who knows.

Mo Ostin knows.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/7341821/warner-bros-ceo-mo-ostin-prince

[Edited 11/10/17 10:51am]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #81 posted 11/10/17 10:43am

RodeoSchro

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OldFriends4Sale said:

RodeoSchro said:

Sometime in '88 or '89, one of my wife's high school classmates told her that she had married an artist from Minneapolis and they lived there now. My wife mentioned I was a big Prince fan and her friend said, "My husband sold him some art! We have something you might like."

A few days later, a cassette came in the mail. It was a copy of the Black Album.

were U a hardcore Prince fan at this time?



Oh yeah. VERY hardcore.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #82 posted 11/10/17 10:59am

RodeoSchro

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databank said:

Se7en said:

I told this story before on here.

My mom (who would've been 43 at the time) worked a basic office job, but she worked with a much younger black graphic designer. He was probably in his early 20s.

In the course of conversation, she mentioned that her son (me) was a big Prince fan. I was 17 at the time that TBA was supposed to come out.

So my mom's coworker brought a cassette tape in to work for her to give to me. I remember LOVING the album and cherishing that cassette for a very long time, at least until 1994 when the offical CD was released.

One funny thing though - which I didn't know until I got the CD - he had recorded Side B onto the first side of the cassette. So for years I always thought the album started with Bob George.

-----

As far as conspiracies and stuff goes, I had always read/heard that he had a bad trip, had a spiritual moment of clarity and pulled the album because it was too dark. More or less, that's the official story.

No, it's not the "official" story. The "official" story is it was too dark and Prince had a vision of God and pulled it back. The drugs part was never the "official" story, we didn't know anything about it from Prince or WB, it was all third parties, years after it happened.

But I'm open to it being something as simple as "Hey Prince, our test markets are not polling well with this new darker material . . . people want something light and positive. What else do you have?". Who knows.

Mo Ostin knows.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/7341821/warner-bros-ceo-mo-ostin-prince

[Edited 11/10/17 10:51am]




falloff This is AWESOME! I wish I could have been in that room!

******************************************************

MO OSTIN:
Well, there was a situation with The Black Album. Time Inc. and Warner had merged, and we were at a sort of [corporate] bonding conference with Time magazine in Jamaica, I think it was. And there were lots of people there and Lenny was in a conversation with a guy who was a very important writer and editor for Timemagazine called Dick Stolley -- he was the guy who actually [acquired and released] the tapes of the Kennedy assassination; I think he also came up with the idea of People magazine. Somehow The Black Album came up -- and Stolley of course became very interested and asked if we would send him a copy. Well, Prince had asked us to destroy them so we said no. But he said "Please send me the album, I’ll keep it under wraps," all kinds of things. Finally, I said, "Well, we can trust Stolley, he's a guy who has an incredible reputation and a lot of integrity. Let's let him have it."


We still had some records in our warehouses -- we had destroyed most of them but we kept some, just to have them, and we agreed to send Stolley a copy. Not long after that, Prince showed up at our office with Kim Basinger. He had just finished [the] Batman [soundtrack] and had made a disco recording with her that ran about 20 minutes [“The Scandalous Sex Suite”] and he wanted to play it for us. We were in Lenny's office and as he was playing the record, Prince got up from where he was sitting, went up to Lenny's desk -- and there on his desk was the copy of The Black Album that we were going to send to Stolley. He looked at it, picked it up, put it back on the desk and made no comment. I came up with whatever excuse I could make, I told him that this was somebody we could trust and might be valuable in getting exposure for Prince, maybe a cover of Timemagazine, who knows? It turned out to be less of an issue than we thought it might, but our hearts dropped when we saw him pick up that album.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #83 posted 11/10/17 1:43pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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SimonCharles said:

SimonCharles said:

Too long!? Not to these ears! biggrin

Actually, I do see what you mean...I just loves it!

sorta like the end of America(extended) I love em both

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #84 posted 11/10/17 1:48pm

SimonCharles

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OldFriends4Sale said:

SimonCharles said:

Actually, I do see what you mean...I just loves it!

sorta like the end of America(extended) I love em both

Yes - good comparison. I loves them both too!

Words are like shoes...
Try my shoes on...
https://simoncwilliamsblo...press.com/
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Reply #85 posted 11/10/17 1:50pm

SimonCharles

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SimonCharles said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

sorta like the end of America(extended) I love em both

Yes - good comparison. I loves them both too!

It's like, I can remember checking the song length on each release - where I could - ... if there were songs over 5 or 6 minutes, it used to make me smile. I think that's one of the reasons why I appreciate Exodus so much (1999, obv)...but Exodus seems to be happy to let the groove go and then The Exodus Has Begun is a lesson in long tune. 2 Nigs United 4 West Compton fits that bill to a tee for me!

Words are like shoes...
Try my shoes on...
https://simoncwilliamsblo...press.com/
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Reply #86 posted 11/10/17 2:36pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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12.1.1987

the Tonight Show

during the SOTT period I never saw Sheila in a black 1 legged outfit, and the SOTT period was over at this point. Interesting idea that they were gearing up for the Black album era

Image result for Sheila E on the Tonight show December 1987

Image may contain: 1 person, sitting and outdoor

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #87 posted 11/10/17 5:17pm

SquirrelMeat

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I actually saw the black album before I heard it.

Being a 17 year old Prince nut at the time, two weeks before its release date, my local WB rep (the guy who dropped the records round to the local stores outside of London), made his usual visit to my local store.

I used to skip college to meet him and was often rewarded with promo display goodies out the back of his estate car (he used to reward me with the big shop displays for ATWIAD, Parade etc).

At the begining of December his showed me a vinyl of the Black Album, telling me it was coming out in two weeks, Prince didn't want it promoted, but the label were telling the stores to push it as a Prince album anyway. Early viral marketing I guess.

He gave me the vinyl to examine, and showed me the order release sheet for two weeks ahead (it had 'Somebody' as the artist).

Being 17, I wanted to have it early to brag to fellow fans, so I offered him £15 for it, when the average price for an album at the time was £5.99. He thought about it and said I could have it for £20. I turned it down and said I'd wait two weeks.

Obviously events happened and I was kicking myself. I got a tape copy from Chris Dawson in January 88, as we'd become friends as I'd helped him and Eileen with photos to compile issue one of Controversy magazine 6 months before.

I got an orignal vinyl a few months later, but paid £150 for it. Sold it later for £2k.

.
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Reply #88 posted 11/10/17 7:43pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Cindy C

This song's about a high class model,
over in Paris, France (Oh, Cindy C)
If I get a camera,
Tell me will u dance (will u play with me?)
If I take a picture,
In the middle of the night (Oh, Cindy C)
Will u fuck with me,
sugar, say it's alright, c'mon (will u play with me?)
(Say it, say it)

(Cindy C, play with me)
(I will pay the usual fee)
Aahhh Cindy C, (What's it gonna be?)
will u play with me? (What's it gonna be?)
(Cindy C, play with me)
(I will pay with usual fee)
Aahhh Cindy C, (What's it gonna be?)
I'll pay the fee (Cindy C)

Super-fine heifer (super fine)
I saw u in the Vogue
I knew you would be trouble, (trouble, trouble)
but why go (go,go)
I'll give you 7 sips of
Elderberry wine (1,2,3,4,5,6,7)
Maybe we'll unlock the
Secrets of your mind

(Cindy C, play with me)
(I will pay the usual fee)
Aahhh Cindy C, (What's it gonna be?)
will u play with me? (What's it gonna be?)
(Cindy C, play with me)
(I will pay with usual fee)
Aahhh Cindy C, (What's it gonna be?)
I'll pay the fee (Cindy C)

The passion's in the mix. (Serve it up, Sheila)
Drink it quick - Cindy, shit
Where'd u get that beauty mark?
Maybe u and I should be undressing

Don't all girls look the same? They don't?
Oh, what a shame.
Cindy, Cindy. I'll pay the usual fee
What's the matter, don't u like me?

(help me tell me what it's all about)

I'm talking about a long [crucial wait](Cindy C Listen
Girl, if I have 2 beg (She's so tired)
I'm gonna see u in (Look at me)
your birthday suit tonight (She doesn't look as good as I do)
I'm sure you're quite intelligent (U think she does, but think again. See?)
A whiz at math and all that shit (how 'bout that?)
But I'm, I'm a tad more interested (Ah ha ha look it,)
(She can't even walk in those shoes)
(I can walk better than that)
in flyin' your kite tonight (She can't even dance)
Cindy, is that alright? (I would give somethin' to know)
(how she ever sees anyone)
(Cindy C)
Oohhh Cindy C, will u play with me?
I'll pay the usual fee

Two organ solos 2 go...

(Oh Cindy C, Oh Cindy C, Oh Cindy C, Oh Cindy C)
(Oh Cindy C, Oh Cindy C, Yeah, Oh Cindy C, Oohhh Cindy C)
(Oh Cindy C, Oohhh, Oohhh, Oh Cindy C)
(Oh Cindy C, Will u play with me?)
(Oh Cindy C, I will pay the fee)
(Ah Cindy C, Will u play with me?)
(Ah Cindy C, I will pay the fee)

Help me (aaww shit)

Excuse my savoir faire,
But, baby I'm dying 2 take u everywhere (Oh yeah?)
I wanna show u 2 my friends
Because baby, you're the living end (Tell me now)
Let me have a debt worth winning,
I can feel your ice is thinning
Like a frozen pond in spring
Your furry melting thing awaits me
Your furry melting thing awaits me, (Oh Cindy C)
and my six-string (Will u play with me?)

(Cindy, where r u?)
C'mon Cindy (Oh my God)
C'mon Cindy (Wait)
Don't u want 2 play with me? (Ah, yes, no, wait)
Don't u want 2 play with me? (Yes)
What's the matter with me, Cindy? (Nothing)

Oh Cindy C, won't u play with me?

Music is the key 2 set yourself free
From depression, drugs and increasing poverty
The key is 2 the lock, the lock is on the door
The door has a knob that u've never turned before
The jack, use the jack, it opens up the lock
Cuz there's the key 2 unlock the body
Place it like that 2 open up the door
The door 2 the house full of people galore
The beat won't stop 'til the JM jocks
And he jacks the box 'til the party rocks
The clock tick-tocks and the place gets hot
And believe it or not, all the troubles u forgot
It's just that easy if u want it 2 be
For all the fellas, and the young ladies
So ease your mind and set yourself free
2 the mystifying music that we call Cindy C

Oh Cindy C, won't u play with me?
Oh Cindy C

11661-prince-black-album.jpg

Prince - all vocals and instruments, except where noted Eric Leeds - saxophone (uncredited) Atlanta Bliss - trumpet (uncredited) Sheila E. - background vocals (uncredited) Cat - background vocals, rap (uncredited)

While specific recording dates are not known, basic tracks were recorded in March 1987 at Prince's Galpin Blvd Home Studio, Chanhassen, MN, USA (during the same set of sessions that produced Dead On It and Nine). After "The Black Album" was initially canceled, the track was broadcast on 9 December 1989 as part of The New Power Generation Radio Show, hosted by Prince (under the name Me, Myself and I) with Robin Power, Ingrid Chavez and Levi Seacer, Jr.

-PrinceVault

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #89 posted 11/10/17 7:45pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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a31745c4-d2ac-43a0-8381-e635cb22cb12.jpg

would have been a cool inner sleave or backside photo for the single
Looks like she has a Black heart between her arms

http://diffuser.fm/prince-cindy-c/

When a stranger danced up to supermodel Cindy Crawford at a New York City club, she had no idea the experience would inspire a song. But that stranger was Prince, and 1994's

Black Album

included the light-hearted but racy track "Cindy C."

"I was out at this club called Nell's on 14th Street in New York, dancing with my friend and all of a sudden there was this little-er person that came and started dancing with me," Crawford told W. "And I was like, 'Oh, that's Prince. So cool.'"


The supermodel continues, "And then cut to not that long after and someone was like, 'Do you know Prince wrote a song about you?' And it's on the Black Album, which I still have, and it had a song on it called 'Cindy C.' And now I know what was going through his mind as we were dancing."


Of course, there were other rumors that suggest Prince wrote it after the model refused meeting with him. Either way, Prince may have danced around it with Cindy, but the song's lyrics don't. "In the middle of the night (Oh, Cindy C) / Will you f---- with me" and "Cindy C, play with me / I will pay the usual fee" get to the heart of the song. But he also jokes "I'm gonna see you in (look at me) / your birthday suit tonight / She doesn't look as good as I do."

The song was originally recorded in 1987, intended to be released as part of a dance floor-focused new Prince album - a follow-up to his highly praised Sign O' the Times double album - without a title or even credit. The album was sent to record label executives with only a cover that read "something by somebody." It was Prince himself who ultimately decided the album, dubbed the Black Album because of its plain black cover, featured subject matter too dark and negative, and pulled it before release. Shortly thereafter, Prince recorded the much more positive, spiritually-focused Lovesexy album. The video for the record's first single, "Alphabet St." featured a brief message about its abandoned predecessor, "Don't Buy the Black Album. I'm Sorry."

But in 1989, "Cindy C" was broadcast on the "New Power Generation Radio Show," which was co-hosted by Prince. The Black Album was finally released by Warner Bros. Records in 1994, as part of Prince's efforts to be released from his record contract.

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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