Morgaine said:

Menes said:

Just to be clear, the point of the thread was to disregard all tabloid information and focus soley on the facts in the warrants . In addition, we use those facts to compile additonal information relevant to what is written in the warrants. I've posted numerous links in this thread where tabloid and news agencies misquoted the facts in the warrants. That is not what we are doing here.

That's my point - because law enforcement hasn't released additional information, there is no way to know what or how he ingested the fentanyl that killed him. Which makes it more difficult to formulate a hypothesis, let alone theorize. I'm not trying to derail what you have or are trying to accomplish, I just don't see how it's possible to get answers without more information. Plesse (anyone) prove me wrong. Peace & Be Wild

IIRC, nothing in all 11 of the search warrants say anything about counterfeit pills.

laurarichardson said:

MMJas said:

Vegetarians and vegans also get vitamin D.

You get Vitamin D by drinking Soy Milk.

[Edited 11/6/17 5:26am]

.

It is quite common among vegetarians/vegans to take vitamin D supplements, even the high-dosed versions.

Morgaine said:

Menes said:

Just to be clear, the point of the thread was to disregard all tabloid information and focus soley on the facts in the warrants . In addition, we use those facts to compile additonal information relevant to what is written in the warrants. I've posted numerous links in this thread where tabloid and news agencies misquoted the facts in the warrants. That is not what we are doing here.

That's my point - because law enforcement hasn't released additional information, there is no way to know what or how he ingested the fentanyl that killed him. Which makes it more difficult to formulate a hypothesis, let alone theorize. I'm not trying to derail what you have or are trying to accomplish, I just don't see how it's possible to get answers without more information. Plesse (anyone) prove me wrong. Peace & Be Wild

IIRC, nothing in all 11 of the search warrants say anything about counterfeit pills.

Morgaine said:

morningsong said:

That's my point - because law enforcement hasn't released additional information, there is no way to know what or how he ingested the fentanyl that killed him. Which makes it more difficult to formulate a hypothesis, let alone theorize. I'm not trying to derail what you have or are trying to accomplish, I just don't see how it's possible to get answers without more information. Plesse (anyone) prove me wrong. Peace & Be Wild

IIRC, nothing in all 11 of the search warrants say anything about counterfeit pills.

[/quote The search warrants and information from law enforcement did not state there was fentanyl in any of the pills discovered at PP. It was leaked information that has never been either verified or denied. Peace & Be Wild

So without the media information then there is no information about how the fentanyl got into his system.

EmancipationLover said:

laurarichardson said:

You get Vitamin D by drinking Soy Milk.

[Edited 11/6/17 5:26am]

.

It is quite common among vegetarians/vegans to take vitamin D supplements, even the high-dosed versions.

I think the Vitamin D is a red herring, half the country including kids are V-D deficient because we lather on the sun screen so much. The media has believing that all sun exposure is bad….of course you don’t want to sunbathe with baby oil like we did in the 60’s, but we’ve gone a little bonkers in the other direction.

.

Thoughts?

DD55

spelling edit

[Edited 11/6/17 11:48am]

morningsong said:

Morgaine said:

morningsong said:

IIRC, nothing in all 11 of the search warrants say anything about counterfeit pills.

[/quote The search warrants and information from law enforcement did not state there was fentanyl in any of the pills discovered at PP. It was leaked information that has never been either verified or denied. Peace & Be Wild

So without the media information then there is no information about how the fentanyl got into his system.

The only thing we know and this is from the media also is that he had no Fentenyl is his system from previous medical test. We still do not know what those test the day before were for. He could not have been getting test to go into rehab because he was not being monitored the night before so what was the test for. To tell him he was on drugs?

We also only know from the media that Fentnyal was in some pill or pills they tested. We know he had it in his system from the ME. Big hugh gap of info that is missing and has not come from the ME or the police.

DD55 said:

EmancipationLover said:

.

It is quite common among vegetarians/vegans to take vitamin D supplements, even the high-dosed versions.

I think the Vitamin D is a red herring, half the country including kids are V-D deficient because we lather on the sun screen so much. The media has believing that all sun exposure is bad….of course you don’t want to sunbathe with baby oil like we did in the 60’s, but we’ve gone a little bonkers in the other direction.

.

Thoughts?

DD55

spelling edit

[Edited 11/6/17 11:48am]

Don't you think it is odd that a vegetarian who was known to drink Soy Milk which comes with Vitamin D would need Prescription level pills and even be concerned about it if he was wacked out on drugs.

I must kill myself with drugs but darn it I am going to have the required Vitamin D and make sure my blood pressure is low.

[Edited 11/6/17 13:02pm]

laurarichardson said:

morningsong said:

So without the media information then there is no information about how the fentanyl got into his system.

The only thing we know and this is from the media also is that he had no Fentenyl is his system from previous medical test. We still do not know what those test the day before were for. He could not have been getting test to go into rehab because he was not being monitored the night before so what was the test for. To tell him he was on drugs?

We also only know from the media that Fentnyal was in some pill or pills they tested. We know he had it in his system from the ME. Big hugh gap of info that is missing and has not come from the ME or the police.

I'm only abiding by the OP's request to only go by what is official in the search warrants since there is a disconnect of information between what is in the search warrants and what is in printed media.

None of that is in the search warrants. So officially we have no idea how Prince died of fentanyl overdose.

morningsong said:

laurarichardson said:

The only thing we know and this is from the media also is that he had no Fentenyl is his system from previous medical test. We still do not know what those test the day before were for. He could not have been getting test to go into rehab because he was not being monitored the night before so what was the test for. To tell him he was on drugs?

We also only know from the media that Fentnyal was in some pill or pills they tested. We know he had it in his system from the ME. Big hugh gap of info that is missing and has not come from the ME or the police.

I'm only abiding by the OP's request to only go by what is official in the search warrants since there is a disconnect of information between what is in the search warrants and what is in printed media.

None of that is in the search warrants. So officially we have no idea how Prince died of fentanyl overdose.

No we do not know officially what happened.

Mumio said:

Morgaine said:

Menes said:

That's my point - because law enforcement hasn't released additional information, there is no way to know what or how he ingested the fentanyl that killed him. Which makes it more difficult to formulate a hypothesis, let alone theorize. I'm not trying to derail what you have or are trying to accomplish, I just don't see how it's possible to get answers without more information. Plesse (anyone) prove me wrong. Peace & Be Wild

This is exactly the reason why I had said previously that there has been too much unsubstantiated information from "sources" that's been used as real proof of whatever. It's nothing more than guesswork if there is no official documentation of what these "sources" are always leaking to the media. It's bullshit.

And no one is going to be able to prove you wrong, for that reason

Yes, it is true that it may be impossible to get more answers without more information. However, that should not preclude us from researching information on our own so that we may more accurately identify the things we now know to be in the actual warrants.

I certainly think that there is enough information there to extrapolate and formulate two (2) very probable scenarios.

With those false and misleading media reports, we had Prince dying a thousand different deaths. At one point in time, some on the org had me thinking that Prince had been raptured up with that transcending business.

laurarichardson said:

DD55 said:

I think the Vitamin D is a red herring, half the country including kids are V-D deficient because we lather on the sun screen so much. The media has believing that all sun exposure is bad….of course you don’t want to sunbathe with baby oil like we did in the 60’s, but we’ve gone a little bonkers in the other direction.

.

Thoughts?

DD55

spelling edit

[Edited 11/6/17 11:48am]

Don't you think it is odd that a vegetarian who was known to drink Soy Milk which comes with Vitamin D would need Prescription level pills and even be concerned about it if he was wacked out on drugs.

I must kill myself with drugs but darn it I am going to have the required Vitamin D and make sure my blood pressure is low.

[Edited 11/6/17 13:02pm]

yes i do think it is odd. there is so much to this story that just . . . doesn't seem to hang together. honestly i don't think we will ever know the full story.

There are reports from Minneapolis PD and more specifically ,Hennepin County, of a bad batch of heroin laced pills right around March 2016. You can use that information with what is in the warrant and you would know that it wasn't watson 853 or A349.

These are the only two types of pills that were taken into custody from Paisley Park that would be paired with dangerous amounts of fentanyl to form a deadly intoxicant.

Reconciling that with what was on the street at that time is proving to be a next to impossible conclusion.

Menes said:

There are reports from Minneapolis PD and more specifically ,Hennepin County, of a bad batch of heroin laced pills right around March 2016. You can use that information with what is in the warrant and you would know that it wasn't watson 853 or A349.

These are the only two types of pills that were taken into custody from Paisley Park that would be paired with dangerous amounts of fentanyl to form a deadly intoxicant.

Reconciling that with what was on the street at that time is proving to be a next to impossible conclusion.

I'm confused, the first warrant list all the narcotics that were removed from PP on April 21st , 2016 (or April 27th, 2016), with the exception of what Andrew Kornfield had in his backpack which was listed on warrant #3, none of it was heroin. What does a seizure of laced-heroin in another case have to do with this case beyond having fentanyl involved? Fentanyl lacing is found in all sorts of illegal narcotics, are all narcotic seizures related to Prince?

I think you will be hard pressed to find any reports of fentanyl laced Watson853 anywhere in the US let alone Minnesota. I'm sure there are counterfeit pill marked as such out there, but I don't think it's prevelant anywhere in the US. But I'll look.

morningsong said:

Menes said:

There are reports from Minneapolis PD and more specifically ,Hennepin County, of a bad batch of heroin laced pills right around March 2016. You can use that information with what is in the warrant and you would know that it wasn't watson 853 or A349.

These are the only two types of pills that were taken into custody from Paisley Park that would be paired with dangerous amounts of fentanyl to form a deadly intoxicant.

Reconciling that with what was on the street at that time is proving to be a next to impossible conclusion.

I'm confused, the first warrant list all the narcotics that were removed from PP on April 21st , 2016 (or April 27th, 2016), with the exception of what Andrew Kornfield had in his backpack which was listed on warrant #3, none of it was heroin. What does a seizure of laced-heroin in another case have to do with this case beyond having fentanyl involved? Fentanyl lacing is found in all sorts of illegal narcotics, are all narcotic seizures related to Prince?

I think you will be hard pressed to find any reports of fentanyl laced Watson853 anywhere in the US let alone Minnesota. I'm sure there are counterfeit pill marked as such out there, but I don't think it's prevelant anywhere in the US. But I'll look.

I'm pretty sure they are out there and with specific imprints during that time period . I think we discussed this a few pages back.

http://kstp.com/news/fentanyl-laced-heroin-percautions-minnesota-bca/4638342/

i had no idea fentanyl was so dangerous to handle

excerpted:

"This drug epidemic, including our opioids and opioid analogs, has really created a new landscape for our employees," he said. "In particular with the dangers that they face handling this particular drug."

Lab scientist have to test for fentanyl in the special cases room, which includes special ventilation to protect them. Scientists are also required to wear single use lab coats, double gloves, a mask and goggles. . .

"It's extremely dangerous" BCA Deputy Superintendent of Investigations Jeff Hansen said. "And you can be exposed to it by breathing it in or by touching it. Or a liquid can be splashed in the eyes."

When scientets go into the field to test for fentanyl, the have to be covered from head to toe because the risk is so great.

"What's different about this is, if they inhale the right amounts of this drug it can kill them," Evans said. "And so we're very concerned about their safety in terms of processing the evidence related to these drugs."

Menes said:

morningsong said:

I'm confused, the first warrant list all the narcotics that were removed from PP on April 21st , 2016 (or April 27th, 2016), with the exception of what Andrew Kornfield had in his backpack which was listed on warrant #3, none of it was heroin. What does a seizure of laced-heroin in another case have to do with this case beyond having fentanyl involved? Fentanyl lacing is found in all sorts of illegal narcotics, are all narcotic seizures related to Prince?

I think you will be hard pressed to find any reports of fentanyl laced Watson853 anywhere in the US let alone Minnesota. I'm sure there are counterfeit pill marked as such out there, but I don't think it's prevelant anywhere in the US. But I'll look.

I'm pretty sure they are out there and with specific imprints during that time period . I think we discussed this a few pages back.

From what I gathered from what you said, that Watson853 laced with fentanyl are not found in the Midwest area, especially the Minnesota area. I did a momentary search, and while I find lots of chat boards questioning whether they have fake Watson853, I'm not finding any news articles talking about law enforcement finding specifically those on the street. I find news articles regarding counterfeit Watson and Norco pills laced with fentanyl but all of those are various different pills, none stamped 853. At least not yet. I did find one article that does say there a lot of fake 853s circulating but it didn't specify if they are just fake non-effective pills or are they laced with fentanyl or some combination of that. I do see 853s are one of the most popular pain relievers prescribed for mild to moderate pain and they have in recent years gone from yellow pills to white.

XxAxX said:

http://kstp.com/news/fentanyl-laced-heroin-percautions-minnesota-bca/4638342/

i had no idea fentanyl was so dangerous to handle

excerpted:

"This drug epidemic, including our opioids and opioid analogs, has really created a new landscape for our employees," he said. "In particular with the dangers that they face handling this particular drug."

Lab scientist have to test for fentanyl in the special cases room, which includes special ventilation to protect them. Scientists are also required to wear single use lab coats, double gloves, a mask and goggles. . .

"It's extremely dangerous" BCA Deputy Superintendent of Investigations Jeff Hansen said. "And you can be exposed to it by breathing it in or by touching it. Or a liquid can be splashed in the eyes."

When scientets go into the field to test for fentanyl, the have to be covered from head to toe because the risk is so great.

"What's different about this is, if they inhale the right amounts of this drug it can kill them," Evans said. "And so we're very concerned about their safety in terms of processing the evidence related to these drugs."

Crazy stuff ain't it?

morningsong said:

XxAxX said:

http://kstp.com/news/fentanyl-laced-heroin-percautions-minnesota-bca/4638342/

i had no idea fentanyl was so dangerous to handle

excerpted:

"This drug epidemic, including our opioids and opioid analogs, has really created a new landscape for our employees," he said. "In particular with the dangers that they face handling this particular drug."

Lab scientist have to test for fentanyl in the special cases room, which includes special ventilation to protect them. Scientists are also required to wear single use lab coats, double gloves, a mask and goggles. . .

"It's extremely dangerous" BCA Deputy Superintendent of Investigations Jeff Hansen said. "And you can be exposed to it by breathing it in or by touching it. Or a liquid can be splashed in the eyes."

When scientets go into the field to test for fentanyl, the have to be covered from head to toe because the risk is so great.

"What's different about this is, if they inhale the right amounts of this drug it can kill them," Evans said. "And so we're very concerned about their safety in terms of processing the evidence related to these drugs."

Crazy stuff ain't it?

yep. totally dangerous. i was intrigued that mere contact or inhalation could cause an overdose. did not know that

XxAxX said:

morningsong said:

Crazy stuff ain't it?

yep. totally dangerous. i was intrigued that mere contact or inhalation could cause an overdose. did not know that

A while back someone posted a picture of how much fentanyl is lethal, it was a bottle with a few white grains, a small fraction of an 1/8th teaspoon.

morningsong said:

Menes said:

I'm pretty sure they are out there and with specific imprints during that time period . I think we discussed this a few pages back.

From what I gathered from what you said, that Watson853 laced with fentanyl are not found in the Midwest area, especially the Minnesota area. I did a momentary search, and while I find lots of chat boards questioning whether they have fake Watson853, I'm not finding any news articles talking about law enforcement finding specifically those on the street. I find news articles regarding counterfeit Watson and Norco pills laced with fentanyl but all of those are various different pills, none stamped 853. At least not yet. I did find one article that does say there a lot of fake 853s circulating but it didn't specify if they are just fake non-effective pills or are they laced with fentanyl or some combination of that. I do see 853s are one of the most popular pain relievers prescribed for mild to moderate pain and they have in recent years gone from yellow pills to white.

And you're getting pieces of the puzzle together as it relates to the pills that were mentioned in the warrants and taken into custody.

At some point, one should think about why Prince would be in possession of a special batch of pills that doesn't seem to be showing up on the streets during that time, or anytime thereafter. Perhaps in wanting to keep the information confidential , the investigators did not want to reveal the source of the fentanyl so as to not cause a frenzied rush to cop said pills. Eventually, the story got out, (albeit a mix up in the numbers) , and at present, there is still no evidence of overdoses let alone a frenzy to cop said pills.

They are pills that are very well documented to be in existence as of 2014 -present, and remain the central cause of overdoses nationwide, and more specifcally , Minnesota.

Menes said:

morningsong said:

From what I gathered from what you said, that Watson853 laced with fentanyl are not found in the Midwest area, especially the Minnesota area. I did a momentary search, and while I find lots of chat boards questioning whether they have fake Watson853, I'm not finding any news articles talking about law enforcement finding specifically those on the street. I find news articles regarding counterfeit Watson and Norco pills laced with fentanyl but all of those are various different pills, none stamped 853. At least not yet. I did find one article that does say there a lot of fake 853s circulating but it didn't specify if they are just fake non-effective pills or are they laced with fentanyl or some combination of that. I do see 853s are one of the most popular pain relievers prescribed for mild to moderate pain and they have in recent years gone from yellow pills to white.

And you're getting pieces of the puzzle together as it relates to the pills that were mentioned in the warrants and taken into custody.

At some point, one should think about why Prince would be in possession of a special batch of pills that doesn't seem to be showing up on the streets during that time, or anytime thereafter. Perhaps in wanting to keep the information confidential , the investigators did not want to reveal the source of the fentanyl so as to not cause a frenzied rush to cop said pills. Eventually, the story got out, (albeit a mix up in the numbers) , and at present, there is still no evidence of overdoses let alone a frenzy to cop said pills.

They are pills that are very well documented to be in existence as of 2014 -present, and remain the central cause of overdoses nationwide, and more specifcally , Minnesota.

Well I have questions about that first warrant, so I pretty much hit a brick wall, because I don't know the odds of inconsistancy.

Seems dumb to have a special batch of something so uncommon to try to cover up a suicide, if that's where you're leading. Why not have what is commonly known to laced made up if this is a matter of wealth and power and shame?

[Edited 11/6/17 17:24pm]

morningsong said:

XxAxX said:

yep. totally dangerous. i was intrigued that mere contact or inhalation could cause an overdose. did not know that

A while back someone posted a picture of how much fentanyl is lethal, it was a bottle with a few white grains, a small fraction of an 1/8th teaspoon.

When I read that I wondered if Prince tipped the bottle of Pills into his hand in order to select one or two,before putting them back

and the act of doing that is what caused the overdose...

Thats how I take my pills and vitamins..

tip a few pilss into my hand...take the required amount and

put the rest back.

If fentanyl is that potent then thats possible..

Plus they did swab his hands ....Why would they do that at the scene ?

So yes..

the Question is HOW DID HE GET THOSE PILLS remains..

Im not buying that he deliberately Xed himself...

You just cant when your faith is strong

.

laurarichardson said:

DD55 said:

I think the Vitamin D is a red herring, half the country including kids are V-D deficient because we lather on the sun screen so much. The media has believing that all sun exposure is bad….of course you don’t want to sunbathe with baby oil like we did in the 60’s, but we’ve gone a little bonkers in the other direction.

.

Thoughts?

DD55

spelling edit

[Edited 11/6/17 11:48am]

Don't you think it is odd that a vegetarian who was known to drink Soy Milk which comes with Vitamin D would need Prescription level pills and even be concerned about it if he was wacked out on drugs.

I must kill myself with drugs but darn it I am going to have the required Vitamin D and make sure my blood pressure is low.

[Edited 11/6/17 13:02pm]

Totally ODD

Lovejunky said:

morningsong said:

A while back someone posted a picture of how much fentanyl is lethal, it was a bottle with a few white grains, a small fraction of an 1/8th teaspoon.

When I read that I wondered if Prince tipped the bottle of Pills into his hand in order to select one or two,before putting them back

and the act of doing that is what caused the overdose...

Thats how I take my pills and vitamins..

tip a few pilss into my hand...take the required amount and

put the rest back.

If fentanyl is that potent then thats possible..

Plus they did swab his hands ....Why would they do that at the scene ?

So yes..

the Question is HOW DID HE GET THOSE PILLS remains..

Im not buying that he deliberately Xed himself...

You just cant when your faith is strong

.

Hm, on the 1st warrant they swabbed both his hand and his neck. I wondered why.

morningsong said:

Lovejunky said:

When I read that I wondered if Prince tipped the bottle of Pills into his hand in order to select one or two,before putting them back

and the act of doing that is what caused the overdose...

Thats how I take my pills and vitamins..

tip a few pilss into my hand...take the required amount and

put the rest back.

If fentanyl is that potent then thats possible..

Plus they did swab his hands ....Why would they do that at the scene ?

So yes..

the Question is HOW DID HE GET THOSE PILLS remains..

Im not buying that he deliberately Xed himself...

You just cant when your faith is strong

.

Hm, on the 1st warrant they swabbed both his hand and his neck. I wondered why.

Protocol.

morningsong said:

Lovejunky said:

When I read that I wondered if Prince tipped the bottle of Pills into his hand in order to select one or two,before putting them back

and the act of doing that is what caused the overdose...

Thats how I take my pills and vitamins..

tip a few pilss into my hand...take the required amount and

put the rest back.

If fentanyl is that potent then thats possible..

Plus they did swab his hands ....Why would they do that at the scene ?

So yes..

the Question is HOW DID HE GET THOSE PILLS remains..

Im not buying that he deliberately Xed himself...

You just cant when your faith is strong

.

Hm, on the 1st warrant they swabbed both his hand and his neck. I wondered why.

That would be one way to positively confirm "Accidental" right ?

Menes said:

morningsong said:

Hm, on the 1st warrant they swabbed both his hand and his neck. I wondered why.

Protocol.

Only if there is any obvious reason

For example...

a Gun was found, or in a violent situation, checking for hair and skin under fingernails or if pills are on the floor.

otherwise all those things are usually done in the coronors office...

SO there must have been a REASON they did that.

Pills scattered on the floor perhaps ?

Lovejunky said:

Menes said:

Protocol.

Only if there is any obvious reason

For example...

a Gun was found, or in a violent situation, checking for hair and skin under fingernails or if pills are on the floor.

otherwise all those things are usually done in the coronors office...

SO there must have been a REASON they did that.

Pills scattered on the floor perhaps ?

I'm not sure if it was for the pills. Is that what the protocol is ?

Lovejunky said:

laurarichardson said:

Don't you think it is odd that a vegetarian who was known to drink Soy Milk which comes with Vitamin D would need Prescription level pills and even be concerned about it if he was wacked out on drugs.

I must kill myself with drugs but darn it I am going to have the required Vitamin D and make sure my blood pressure is low.

[Edited 11/6/17 13:02pm]

Totally ODD

Not odd to me just makes my point that he was not seeing Dr. S for just joint pain. Do joint pain doctors give out these types of meds. Unless poor Kirk was in some bad shape and needed the blood pressure pills, anti-vomit meds, vitamin D, Suxbone, and some antixiety meds. It is a wide variety of meds for someone just dealing with addiction and getting treatment from a doctor who had no background in addiction managment.

Lovejunky said: