ThatWhiteDude said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

I'm not going to respond to LR's previous post because I know it will be a waste of time trying to bulldoze a block of granite surrounded by concrete. But I will make this clear - and from time to time no doubt have to reiterate:

If your doctor gives you opiate medication and you have been taking the treatment as prescribed for 4+ weeks, then your body is physiologically addicted to the drug. Which means, by necessity, that person's brain is psychologically addicted to the drug, in spite of any pain issues. It's not even a matter of willpower. The body will crave it, and so will the person's mind.

To clarify, there are people on this very site who have related in their own candid experience how they have to be careful with prescription opiates, making sure that they neither take too little (as in stop taking it) or up the dose and go too far. They recognise as well that they feel more calm and happier on the drug than not taking it - aside from any pain - because that's what opiates do: they engage your opiate receptors 'on tap' as it were, so you don't have to put yourself in a relaxed state in order to activate the opiate receptors.

(Ever wondered why meditation or the so-called placebo effect helps with pain?) I hope that's transparent enough- even to someone whose brain resembles molten tar.

All of this. It's funny people even get addicted to their phones but some folks here doubt that you can easily get addicted to opiates.

[Edited 12/27/17 17:23pm]

I'd agree if we were discussing anyone other that P. He had a history of a) hating drugs and avoiding them, b) a dislike or distrust of Drs and meds, c) acceptance of "God's Will" or plan (for lack of a better term), d) absolute faith in said plan and e) an abhorence towards certain things (mostly technology) because of their addictive qualities. From what I've seen of his character, the man was strongly independant - it would just go against his very being to become reliant on something external.

ThatWhiteDude said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

I'm not going to respond to LR's previous post because I know it will be a waste of time trying to bulldoze a block of granite surrounded by concrete. But I will make this clear - and from time to time no doubt have to reiterate:

If your doctor gives you opiate medication and you have been taking the treatment as prescribed for 4+ weeks, then your body is physiologically addicted to the drug. Which means, by necessity, that person's brain is psychologically addicted to the drug, in spite of any pain issues. It's not even a matter of willpower. The body will crave it, and so will the person's mind.

To clarify, there are people on this very site who have related in their own candid experience how they have to be careful with prescription opiates, making sure that they neither take too little (as in stop taking it) or up the dose and go too far. They recognise as well that they feel more calm and happier on the drug than not taking it - aside from any pain - because that's what opiates do: they engage your opiate receptors 'on tap' as it were, so you don't have to put yourself in a relaxed state in order to activate the opiate receptors.

(Ever wondered why meditation or the so-called placebo effect helps with pain?) I hope that's transparent enough- even to someone whose brain resembles molten tar.

All of this. It's funny people even get addicted to their phones but some folks here doubt that you can easily get addicted to opiates.

[Edited 12/27/17 17:23pm]

No one that I know of has every doubted that you can easily get addicted to opiates on this board.

Many of us do not believe Prince was a life long addict ( no evidence ) and that he had medical problems beyond joint pain that accelerated his use of these pills. In fact we have more evidence of addtional medical issues and in my mind that makes any addiction he had irrlevent.

No one should die in pain. If he did not good for him. No reason for him to be the poster boy for pain pill abuse by people who cannot stop projecting. Much more to Prince's life then how he died.

Misslink88 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

All of this. It's funny people even get addicted to their phones but some folks here doubt that you can easily get addicted to opiates.

[Edited 12/27/17 17:23pm]

I'd agree if we were discussing anyone other that P. He had a history of a) hating drugs and avoiding them, b) a dislike or distrust of Drs and meds, c) acceptance of "God's Will" or plan (for lack of a better term), d) absolute faith in said plan and e) an abhorence towards certain things (mostly technology) because of their addictive qualities. From what I've seen of his character, the man was strongly independant - it would just go against his very being to become reliant on something external.

Exactly, this is the reason I could see him letting the chips fall where they may.

Misslink88 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

All of this. It's funny people even get addicted to their phones but some folks here doubt that you can easily get addicted to opiates.

[Edited 12/27/17 17:23pm]

I'd agree if we were discussing anyone other that P. He had a history of a) hating drugs and avoiding them, b) a dislike or distrust of Drs and meds, c) acceptance of "God's Will" or plan (for lack of a better term), d) absolute faith in said plan and e) an abhorence towards certain things (mostly technology) because of their addictive qualities. From what I've seen of his character, the man was strongly independant - it would just go against his very being to become reliant on something external.

I think he was true to himself

Misslink88 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

All of this. It's funny people even get addicted to their phones but some folks here doubt that you can easily get addicted to opiates.

[Edited 12/27/17 17:23pm]

I'd agree if we were discussing anyone other that P. He had a history of a) hating drugs and avoiding them, b) a dislike or distrust of Drs and meds, c) acceptance of "God's Will" or plan (for lack of a better term), d) absolute faith in said plan and e) an abhorence towards certain things (mostly technology) because of their addictive qualities. From what I've seen of his character, the man was strongly independant - it would just go against his very being to become reliant on something external.

But it seems like you don't understand how addictive these pills are. We're not talking about psychological addiction, we are talking about the physical. You don't have to be "weak" or whatever you want to call it. And it doesn't matter what he was against, if he takes pills like that, he can get addicted too, no matter how much he hated drugs.

Let me tell you a story, I'm taking Anti Depressants, they don't make you addicted on a psychological level, but there was a period of two weeks where I wasn't able to take them. I had to stop with it and I didn't even know it, but my body was addicted to them. I felt like shit and didn't even knew why, it never came to my mind that it was them pills. Your body wants them, it doesn't matter if your mind says otherwise and trust me, it's horrible when your body cries for pills. You feel like a zombie, you can't eat, you feel like you're about to vomit, your stomach hurts everyday and you lose weight because you can't eat.

And these pills I'm taking aren't even that strong. You can't compare it to the strong pills Prince. First of all, they are different pills for different reasons, but the outcome is the same: Your body gets addicted and sometimes you only realise it if you want to stop with them.

I wasn't aware that the abscence of the pills made me sick like a dog until I was able to take one pill again. The symptons I had were gone within seconds. I'm still not addicted to them on psychological level, but now I know that my body is. And most of the time you only realise it when you stop with them.

So your argument isn't really strong. Yes he hated drugs, but we're not talking about heroin or crack. He took pills to controll his pain and didn't realise that his body got addicted until it was too late.

laurarichardson said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

All of this. It's funny people even get addicted to their phones but some folks here doubt that you can easily get addicted to opiates.

[Edited 12/27/17 17:23pm]

No one that I know of has every doubted that you can easily get addicted to opiates on this board.

Many of us do not believe Prince was a life long addict ( no evidence ) and that he had medical problems beyond joint pain that accelerated his use of these pills. In fact we have more evidence of addtional medical issues and in my mind that makes any addiction he had irrlevent.

No one should die in pain. If he did not good for him. No reason for him to be the poster boy for pain pill abuse by people who cannot stop projecting. Much more to Prince's life then how he died.

We have NO evidence of additional medical issues. You are talking out of your backside. You keep neglecting the fact that opiates make people very ill in the withdrawal process. I'm going to keep coming back here, periodically, to bury your poppycock theories.

All we have is evidence of bone pain, a cold turkey episode in his last week, and strong evidence of general unwellness in his last few months, which by applying occam's razor, points to more evidence of opiate withdrawal. Myself and other sane folk will continue to remain agnostic and open-minded as to possible decades of drug use, while you continue to claim all knowledge about P's inner thought processes and daily routines throughout 40 years of his life. ffs.

ThatWhiteDude said:

But it seems like you don't understand how addictive these pills are. We're not talking about psychological addiction, we are talking about the physical. You don't have to be "weak" or whatever you want to call it. And it doesn't matter what he was against, if he takes pills like that, he can get addicted too, no matter how much he hated drugs.

Let me tell you a story, I'm taking Anti Depressants, they don't make you addicted on a psychological level, but there was a period of two weeks where I wasn't able to take them. I had to stop with it and I didn't even know it, but my body was addicted to them.

I felt like shit and didn't even knew why, it never came to my mind that it was them pills. Your body wants them, it doesn't matter if your mind says otherwise and trust me, it's horrible when your body cries for pills. You feel like a zombie, you can't eat, you feel like you're about to vomit, your stomach hurts everyday and you lose weight because you can't eat.

And these pills I'm taking aren't even that strong. You can't compare it to the strong pills Prince. First of all, they are different pills for different reasons, but the outcome is the same: Your body gets addicted and sometimes you only realise it if you want to stop with them.

I wasn't aware that the abscence of the pills made me sick like a dog until I was able to take one pill again. The symptons I had were gone within seconds. I'm still not addicted to them on psychological level, but now I know that my body is. And most of the time you only realise it when you stop with them.

So your argument isn't really strong. Yes he hated drugs, but we're not talking about heroin or crack. He took pills to controll his pain and didn't realise that his body got addicted until it was too late.

Right! And that's anti depressants, not known to have any addictive properties. And yet they are physiologically addictive.

Enter recreational drugs into that picture, and people can widely acknowledge they are both physiologically and psychologically addictive. You get physical withdrawal symptoms but also a huge psychological pang.

10-most-addictive-drugs-in-the-world Now guess which comes top?

fortuneandserendipity said:

laurarichardson said:

No one that I know of has every doubted that you can easily get addicted to opiates on this board.

Many of us do not believe Prince was a life long addict ( no evidence ) and that he had medical problems beyond joint pain that accelerated his use of these pills. In fact we have more evidence of addtional medical issues and in my mind that makes any addiction he had irrlevent.

No one should die in pain. If he did not good for him. No reason for him to be the poster boy for pain pill abuse by people who cannot stop projecting. Much more to Prince's life then how he died.

We have NO evidence of additional medical issues. You are talking out of your backside. You keep neglecting the fact that opiates make people very ill in the withdrawal process. I'm going to keep coming back here, periodically, to bury your poppycock theories.

All we have is evidence of bone pain, a cold turkey episode in his last week, and strong evidence of general unwellness in his last few months, which by applying occam's razor, points to more evidence of opiate withdrawal. Myself and other sane folk will continue to remain agnostic and open-minded as to possible decades of drug use, while you continue to claim all knowledge about P's inner thought processes and daily routines throughout 40 years of his life. ffs.

We have evidence. You choose not to acknowledge it. Some of us have even more evidence then others.

Once again I am not neglecting or have lack of knowledge of what opiates can do to people. I am not in denial that he was taking them. You are ignoring that people are given opiates for medical treatements concerning certain diseases and illnesses.

It does not matter what the reason for taking them they are going to make you ill along with other issues. Addiction was not root cause of P's problems in 2016 and I have not one lick of proof of a 40 year addiction which is all I or any rational person needs. You have no proof of decades of drug use and if we find it he was ill your projecting a drug problem on him becomes moot. No one blames anyone for using pain pills if they are dying.

What are you going to do with yourself and your occam's razor theory then?

[Edited 12/28/17 9:37am]

ThatWhiteDude said:

Misslink88 said:

I'd agree if we were discussing anyone other that P. He had a history of a) hating drugs and avoiding them, b) a dislike or distrust of Drs and meds, c) acceptance of "God's Will" or plan (for lack of a better term), d) absolute faith in said plan and e) an abhorence towards certain things (mostly technology) because of their addictive qualities. From what I've seen of his character, the man was strongly independant - it would just go against his very being to become reliant on something external.

But it seems like you don't understand how addictive these pills are. We're not talking about psychological addiction, we are talking about the physical. You don't have to be "weak" or whatever you want to call it. And it doesn't matter what he was against, if he takes pills like that, he can get addicted too, no matter how much he hated drugs.

Let me tell you a story, I'm taking Anti Depressants, they don't make you addicted on a psychological level, but there was a period of two weeks where I wasn't able to take them. I had to stop with it and I didn't even know it, but my body was addicted to them. I felt like shit and didn't even knew why, it never came to my mind that it was them pills. Your body wants them, it doesn't matter if your mind says otherwise and trust me, it's horrible when your body cries for pills. You feel like a zombie, you can't eat, you feel like you're about to vomit, your stomach hurts everyday and you lose weight because you can't eat.

And these pills I'm taking aren't even that strong. You can't compare it to the strong pills Prince. First of all, they are different pills for different reasons, but the outcome is the same: Your body gets addicted and sometimes you only realise it if you want to stop with them.

I wasn't aware that the abscence of the pills made me sick like a dog until I was able to take one pill again. The symptons I had were gone within seconds. I'm still not addicted to them on psychological level, but now I know that my body is. And most of the time you only realise it when you stop with them.

So your argument isn't really strong. Yes he hated drugs, but we're not talking about heroin or crack. He took pills to controll his pain and didn't realise that his body got addicted until it was too late.

Actually, I do understand - from first-hand experience. Quit them cold turkey, years ago, after 2 years. No "withdrawal" symptoms. I've seen it in other people as well. The difficulty is whitewashing everyone's experience with one's own. I recognize that not everyone could quit cold turkey without discomfort; I also recognize not everyone will become addicted physically. You can just look @ people who quit smoking - some have a very difficult time (nicotine is highly addictive) while others never think about it again. The mind is a very powerful tool if used correctly.

laurarichardson said:

We have evidence. You choose not to acknowledge it. Some of us have even more evidence then

others.

Once again I am not neglecting or have lack of knowledge of what opiates can do to people. I am not in denial that he was taking them.

You are ignoring that people are given opiates for medical treatements concerning certain

diseases and illnesses.

It does not matter what the reason for taking them they are going to make you ill along with

other issues. Addiction was not root cause of P's problems in 2016 and I have not one lick of proof

of a 40 year addiction which is all I or any rational person needs. You have no proof of decades of drug use and if we find it he was ill your

projecting a drug problem on him becomes moot.

No one blames anyone for using pain pills if they are dying.

What are you going to do with yourself and your occam's razor theory then?

[Edited 12/28/17 9:37am]

Quit burying your head in the sand. You have no more evidence than anyone, but choose instead to ignore the evidence plain and clear to everyone else. Namely, Prince died from addiction to opiates.

You are completely in denial over this. Which is why you keep pushing the non-sensical theories about someone deliberately slipping dodgy pills, or terminal illness, neither of which are supported by any evidence at all. And I wouldn't expect you to understand occam's razor, since you're not interested in being objective and weighing up the evidence with an unbiased viewpoint.

Prince did not die as a result of anything but opiate addiction. Now do you think if there was a poll on this website, most would agree with you (not to mention the more detached fan base elsewhere as well as neutral onlookers)? - when you clearly understand next to nothing about drug use, either recreational or prescription?

fortuneandserendipity said:

laurarichardson said:

We have evidence. You choose not to acknowledge it. Some of us have even more evidence then

others.

Once again I am not neglecting or have lack of knowledge of what opiates can do to people. I am not in denial that he was taking them.

You are ignoring that people are given opiates for medical treatements concerning certain

diseases and illnesses.

It does not matter what the reason for taking them they are going to make you ill along with

other issues. Addiction was not root cause of P's problems in 2016 and I have not one lick of proof

of a 40 year addiction which is all I or any rational person needs. You have no proof of decades of drug use and if we find it he was ill your

projecting a drug problem on him becomes moot.

No one blames anyone for using pain pills if they are dying.

What are you going to do with yourself and your occam's razor theory then?

[Edited 12/28/17 9:37am]

Quit burying your head in the sand. You have no more evidence than anyone, but choose instead to ignore the evidence plain and clear to everyone else. Namely, Prince died from addiction to opiates.

You are completely in denial over this. Which is why you keep pushing the non-sensical theories about someone deliberately slipping dodgy pills, or terminal illness, neither of which are supported by any evidence at all. And I wouldn't expect you to understand occam's razor, since you're not interested in being objective and weighing up the evidence with an unbiased viewpoint.

Prince did not die as a result of anything but opiate addiction. Now do you think if there was a poll on this website, most would agree with you (not to mention the more detached fan base elsewhere as well as neutral onlookers)? - when you clearly understand next to nothing about drug use, either recreational or prescription?

Once again not one single person has said Prince did not die from opiates. You can die from them and not be addicted to them but when ex-drug addicts feel their need to project their problems and experiences become more important then facts. Oh well we get people like.

I and a few others have the information that is widely known that you want to ignore and some other info as well.

Once more information comes out you will see. Prince will still have died from pain pills but it will be for a reason. Maybe you can go on the Chris Connell message board and live vicarously thru Chris's issues.

Misslink88 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

But it seems like you don't understand how addictive these pills are. We're not talking about psychological addiction, we are talking about the physical. You don't have to be "weak" or whatever you want to call it. And it doesn't matter what he was against, if he takes pills like that, he can get addicted too, no matter how much he hated drugs.

Let me tell you a story, I'm taking Anti Depressants, they don't make you addicted on a psychological level, but there was a period of two weeks where I wasn't able to take them. I had to stop with it and I didn't even know it, but my body was addicted to them. I felt like shit and didn't even knew why, it never came to my mind that it was them pills. Your body wants them, it doesn't matter if your mind says otherwise and trust me, it's horrible when your body cries for pills. You feel like a zombie, you can't eat, you feel like you're about to vomit, your stomach hurts everyday and you lose weight because you can't eat.

And these pills I'm taking aren't even that strong. You can't compare it to the strong pills Prince. First of all, they are different pills for different reasons, but the outcome is the same: Your body gets addicted and sometimes you only realise it if you want to stop with them.

I wasn't aware that the abscence of the pills made me sick like a dog until I was able to take one pill again. The symptons I had were gone within seconds. I'm still not addicted to them on psychological level, but now I know that my body is. And most of the time you only realise it when you stop with them.

So your argument isn't really strong. Yes he hated drugs, but we're not talking about heroin or crack. He took pills to controll his pain and didn't realise that his body got addicted until it was too late.

Actually, I do understand - from first-hand experience. Quit them cold turkey, years ago, after 2 years. No "withdrawal" symptoms. I've seen it in other people as well. The difficulty is whitewashing everyone's experience with one's own. I recognize that not everyone could quit cold turkey without discomfort; I also recognize not everyone will become addicted physically. You can just look @ people who quit smoking - some have a very difficult time (nicotine is highly addictive) while others never think about it again. The mind is a very powerful tool if used correctly.

It's not about how strong anyones mind is. You didn't get my point. I told you the story to show you, that sometimes you don't even realise that you're addicted until you stop taking the pills you're taking. Because it's all physical, not psychological. It's not like: "Oh I need these pills or else I get crazy." NO. You first realise it when you stop. That's physical. And I guess that's what happened to Prince with even stronger Pills than my anti depressants. He didn't even realise that he was addicted, because it wasn't psychological at first. It was all physical. He probably thought that he could just stop taking them and then his body showed that this is not how it works with those highly addictive pills.

fortuneandserendipity said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

But it seems like you don't understand how addictive these pills are. We're not talking about psychological addiction, we are talking about the physical. You don't have to be "weak" or whatever you want to call it. And it doesn't matter what he was against, if he takes pills like that, he can get addicted too, no matter how much he hated drugs.

Let me tell you a story, I'm taking Anti Depressants, they don't make you addicted on a psychological level, but there was a period of two weeks where I wasn't able to take them. I had to stop with it and I didn't even know it, but my body was addicted to them.

I felt like shit and didn't even knew why, it never came to my mind that it was them pills. Your body wants them, it doesn't matter if your mind says otherwise and trust me, it's horrible when your body cries for pills. You feel like a zombie, you can't eat, you feel like you're about to vomit, your stomach hurts everyday and you lose weight because you can't eat.

And these pills I'm taking aren't even that strong. You can't compare it to the strong pills Prince. First of all, they are different pills for different reasons, but the outcome is the same: Your body gets addicted and sometimes you only realise it if you want to stop with them.

I wasn't aware that the abscence of the pills made me sick like a dog until I was able to take one pill again. The symptons I had were gone within seconds. I'm still not addicted to them on psychological level, but now I know that my body is. And most of the time you only realise it when you stop with them.

So your argument isn't really strong. Yes he hated drugs, but we're not talking about heroin or crack. He took pills to controll his pain and didn't realise that his body got addicted until it was too late.

Right! And that's anti depressants, not known to have any addictive properties. And yet they are physiologically addictive.

Enter recreational drugs into that picture, and people can widely acknowledge they are both physiologically and psychologically addictive. You get physical withdrawal symptoms but also a huge psychological pang.

10-most-addictive-drugs-in-the-world Now guess which comes top?

I guess we both could repeat that 2000 times but some people still won't get it. Because they simply don't want to accept the sad truth.

Misslink88 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

But it seems like you don't understand how addictive these pills are. We're not talking about psychological addiction, we are talking about the physical. You don't have to be "weak" or whatever you want to call it. And it doesn't matter what he was against, if he takes pills like that, he can get addicted too, no matter how much he hated drugs.

Let me tell you a story, I'm taking Anti Depressants, they don't make you addicted on a psychological level, but there was a period of two weeks where I wasn't able to take them. I had to stop with it and I didn't even know it, but my body was addicted to them. I felt like shit and didn't even knew why, it never came to my mind that it was them pills. Your body wants them, it doesn't matter if your mind says otherwise and trust me, it's horrible when your body cries for pills. You feel like a zombie, you can't eat, you feel like you're about to vomit, your stomach hurts everyday and you lose weight because you can't eat.

And these pills I'm taking aren't even that strong. You can't compare it to the strong pills Prince. First of all, they are different pills for different reasons, but the outcome is the same: Your body gets addicted and sometimes you only realise it if you want to stop with them.

I wasn't aware that the abscence of the pills made me sick like a dog until I was able to take one pill again. The symptons I had were gone within seconds. I'm still not addicted to them on psychological level, but now I know that my body is. And most of the time you only realise it when you stop with them.

So your argument isn't really strong. Yes he hated drugs, but we're not talking about heroin or crack. He took pills to controll his pain and didn't realise that his body got addicted until it was too late.

Actually, I do understand - from first-hand experience. Quit them cold turkey, years ago, after 2 years. No "withdrawal" symptoms. I've seen it in other people as well. The difficulty is whitewashing everyone's experience with one's own. I recognize that not everyone could quit cold turkey without discomfort; I also recognize not everyone will become addicted physically. You can just look @ people who quit smoking - some have a very difficult time (nicotine is highly addictive) while others never think about it again. The mind is a very powerful tool if used correctly.

I agree, but don't underestimate the importance of surroundings and events in the process of withdrawal.
They can help, or drag you down.

I still wonder about the impact of Vanity's demise.
It reminds me the classic case of a couple, where one dies and the other follows soon after.

The P&M Tour is something an artist who is at the end of his career would do: a point for Tyka and her statements.
But then again, the SISIA recording anniversary, the "save your prayers", the surveillance cameras, they all could be things we interpret afterwards.
I can understand some of us who consider the coincidences to be too many, and look for additional reasons and clues.

fortuneandserendipity, Prince died of an accidental opiod overdose.
He could have been an addict, but this doesn't mean he was doomed to leave this way.
The visit of Andrew Kornfeld suggests that after the Moline incident, Prince or his entourage finally decided it was time to take action.
Had he taken his regular pills that night, he may as well be just another addict superstar in rehab as I write.

ThatWhiteDude said:

Misslink88 said:

Actually, I do understand - from first-hand experience. Quit them cold turkey, years ago, after 2 years. No "withdrawal" symptoms. I've seen it in other people as well. The difficulty is whitewashing everyone's experience with one's own. I recognize that not everyone could quit cold turkey without discomfort; I also recognize not everyone will become addicted physically. You can just look @ people who quit smoking - some have a very difficult time (nicotine is highly addictive) while others never think about it again. The mind is a very powerful tool if used correctly.

It's not about how strong anyones mind is. You didn't get my point. I told you the story to show you, that sometimes you don't even realise that you're addicted until you stop taking the pills you're taking. Because it's all physical, not psychological. It's not like: "Oh I need these pills or else I get crazy." NO. You first realise it when you stop. That's physical. And I guess that's what happened to Prince with even stronger Pills than my anti depressants. He didn't even realise that he was addicted, because it wasn't psychological at first. It was all physical. He probably thought that he could just stop taking them and then his body showed that this is not how it works with those highly addictive pills.

You have no idea what happend to him. If he did not realize he was was addicted why was he seeing a doctor and why did he have the subxone. He obviously did not stop taking anything if you look at the pills found in the compound.

This is what happens when you spin things to get the narrative you want. Now according to you he had no idea he was having a problem with the drugs. Yet he had test run the day before don't you think if he had test run the day before he might have known he was having an issue with the drugs. Althought common sense should tell you drug addicts do not have to go to doctors for test to tell them they are struggling with drugs or going thru withdrawals.

Doctors do not need to bring test results to the next day to tell you " Oh you have a drug problem"

Doctors are not going to run test on you to go to rehab when you have been unmonitored all night long and are meeting with someone who is not even a doctor.

Think about it for a minute and think about the 65k in medical expenses on inventory sheet. Do you think he went to Dr. S and purchased 65k in illegal drugs and then the estate managers wanted to put on it on the inventory sheet for tax purposes.

Don't you go to rehab for 30 days or more. Prince was working in the studio in Janaury and went out on tour and was not off the road enough to be in a rehab. Think

bonatoc said:

Misslink88 said:

Actually, I do understand - from first-hand experience. Quit them cold turkey, years ago, after 2 years. No "withdrawal" symptoms. I've seen it in other people as well. The difficulty is whitewashing everyone's experience with one's own. I recognize that not everyone could quit cold turkey without discomfort; I also recognize not everyone will become addicted physically. You can just look @ people who quit smoking - some have a very difficult time (nicotine is highly addictive) while others never think about it again. The mind is a very powerful tool if used correctly.

I agree, but don't underestimate the importance of surroundings and events in the process of withdrawal.
They can help, or drag you down.

I still wonder about the impact of Vanity's demise.
It reminds me the classic case of a couple, where one dies and the other follows soon after.

The P&M Tour is something an artist who is at the end of his career would do: a point for Tyka and her statements.
But then again, the SISIA recording anniversary, the "save your prayers", the surveillance cameras, they all could be things we interpret afterwards.
I can understand some of us who consider the coincidences to be too many, and look for additional reasons and clues.

fortuneandserendipity, Prince died of an accidental opiod overdose.
He could have been an addict, but this doesn't mean he was doomed to leave this way.
The visit of Andrew Kornfeld suggests that after the Moline incident, Prince or his entourage finally decided it was time to take action.
Had he taken his regular pills that night, he may as well be just another addict superstar in rehab as I write.

Too many coincidences from a man who practiced and planned everything right down to last detail.

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Quit burying your head in the sand. You have no more evidence than anyone, but choose instead to ignore the evidence plain and clear to everyone else. Namely, Prince died from addiction to opiates.

You are completely in denial over this. Which is why you keep pushing the non-sensical theories about someone deliberately slipping dodgy pills, or terminal illness, neither of which are supported by any evidence at all. And I wouldn't expect you to understand occam's razor, since you're not interested in being objective and weighing up the evidence with an unbiased viewpoint.

Prince did not die as a result of anything but opiate addiction. Now do you think if there was a poll on this website, most would agree with you (not to mention the more detached fan base elsewhere as well as neutral onlookers)? - when you clearly understand next to nothing about drug use, either recreational or prescription?

Once again not one single person has said Prince did not die from opiates. You can die from them and not be addicted to them but when ex-drug addicts feel their need to project their problems and experiences become more important then facts. Oh well we get people like.

I and a few others have the information that is widely known that you want to ignore and some other info as well.

Once more information comes out you will see. Prince will still have died from pain pills but it will be for a reason. Maybe you can go on the Chris Connell message board and live vicarously thru Chris's issues.

Well do us all a favor and name these ex-drug addicts, ostrich head. Because I have no idea who you could mean. Are you saying every opiate expert has first-hand personal experience of the drug

The 'information' you claim to have comes from Tyka Nelson. And she didn't say anything conclusive, but of course you will put your crazy spin on it, trying to make out she was meaning 'terminal illness'. Let's all wait for the book then. I guarantee nothing will come to light over P's imaginary terminal illness. Guarantee it! In 5 years time you'll still be waiting. And so will we

fortuneandserendipity said:

laurarichardson said:

Once again not one single person has said Prince did not die from opiates. You can die from them and not be addicted to them but when ex-drug addicts feel their need to project their problems and experiences become more important then facts. Oh well we get people like.

I and a few others have the information that is widely known that you want to ignore and some other info as well.

Once more information comes out you will see. Prince will still have died from pain pills but it will be for a reason. Maybe you can go on the Chris Connell message board and live vicarously thru Chris's issues.

Well do us all a favor and name these ex-drug addicts, ostrich head. Because I have no idea who you could mean. Are you saying every opiate expert has first-hand personal experience of the drug

The 'information' you claim to have comes from Tyka Nelson. And she didn't say anything conclusive, but of course you will put your crazy spin on it, trying to make out she was meaning 'terminal illness'. Let's all wait for the book then. I guarantee nothing will come to light over P's imaginary terminal illness. Guarantee it! In 5 years time you'll still be waiting. And so will we

I think you are the ex-drug addict. You are much too invested in the world of pain pills. Apparently, none on the earth have more knowledge then you do.

I have info that does not come from Tyka although common sense should tell you that she has told us more then once that she knew he was going to die via written communication directly from him to her. ( What are you going to say if she kept the e-mail) Did that even occur to you?

Unless he had a crystal ball that told him he was going to die from an overdose a few years ahead I would suspect that he was ill. You know how all humans can get ill even Prince.

I have seen screen shot and communication from others in his circle they are not all going on about us the fans not knowing the whole story unless their is a another side to the story. If you do not see this you are being delusional to the point of mental distrubuance.

People are starting to talk now so we do not have to wait five years and I suspect you will disappear kind of like all of the naysayers on this board who said Prince was crazy for playing large arenas on the Musicology Tour. No one knew what he was going to pull off then and you have no idea what he was going thru in 2016.

The fact that you think he would leave a rehab book out in the open or drugs out in the open in a 65k square foot facility speaks volumes about your smarts. but they do call it "dope"

Things look they way the do because he wanted it this way. Who do you think took those cameras out and gave everybody the week off?

[Edited 12/28/17 12:35pm]

laurarichardson said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

It's not about how strong anyones mind is. You didn't get my point. I told you the story to show you, that sometimes you don't even realise that you're addicted until you stop taking the pills you're taking. Because it's all physical, not psychological. It's not like: "Oh I need these pills or else I get crazy." NO. You first realise it when you stop. That's physical. And I guess that's what happened to Prince with even stronger Pills than my anti depressants. He didn't even realise that he was addicted, because it wasn't psychological at first. It was all physical. He probably thought that he could just stop taking them and then his body showed that this is not how it works with those highly addictive pills.

You have no idea what happend to him. If he did not realize he was was addicted why was he seeing a doctor and why did he have the subxone. He obviously did not stop taking anything if you look at the pills found in the compound.

This is what happens when you spin things to get the narrative you want. Now according to you he had no idea he was having a problem with the drugs. Yet he had test run the day before don't you think if he had test run the day before he might have known he was having an issue with the drugs. Althought common sense should tell you drug addicts do not have to go to doctors for test to tell them they are struggling with drugs or going thru withdrawals.

Doctors do not need to bring test results to the next day to tell you " Oh you have a drug problem"

Doctors are not going to run test on you to go to rehab when you have been unmonitored all night long and are meeting with someone who is not even a doctor.

Think about it for a minute and think about the 65k in medical expenses on inventory sheet. Do you think he went to Dr. S and purchased 65k in illegal drugs and then the estate managers wanted to put on it on the inventory sheet for tax purposes.

Don't you go to rehab for 30 days or more. Prince was working in the studio in Janaury and went out on tour and was not off the road enough to be in a rehab. Think

Laura, I'm starting to lose my patience with you. You didn't read properly! I never said he didn't realise it, I said I GUESS he realised it when it was too late! Because you don't realise the addiction until you stop taking the pills! That's why it's physical addiction. Prince didn't take action until it was too late. And I truely believe he realised it when he stopped taking them. He probably thought he could just stop taking them.

But his body was already addicted, get it now? How can he realise he's addicted when it's all physical. If he knew it before, like if he was psychological addicted, then I guess it would've been way earlier. But I guess it was physical first, so he didn't know that he was addicted up until he stopped. And then it hit him.

laurarichardson said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

It's not about how strong anyones mind is. You didn't get my point. I told you the story to show you, that sometimes you don't even realise that you're addicted until you stop taking the pills you're taking. Because it's all physical, not psychological. It's not like: "Oh I need these pills or else I get crazy." NO. You first realise it when you stop. That's physical. And I guess that's what happened to Prince with even stronger Pills than my anti depressants. He didn't even realise that he was addicted, because it wasn't psychological at first. It was all physical. He probably thought that he could just stop taking them and then his body showed that this is not how it works with those highly addictive pills.

You have no idea what happend to him. If he did not realize he was was addicted why was he seeing a doctor and why did he have the subxone. He obviously did not stop taking anything if you look at the pills found in the compound.

This is what happens when you spin things to get the narrative you want. Now according to you he had no idea he was having a problem with the drugs. Yet he had test run the day before don't you think if he had test run the day before he might have known he was having an issue with the drugs. Althought common sense should tell you drug addicts do not have to go to doctors for test to tell them they are struggling with drugs or going thru withdrawals.

Doctors do not need to bring test results to the next day to tell you " Oh you have a drug problem"

Doctors are not going to run test on you to go to rehab when you have been unmonitored all night long and are meeting with someone who is not even a doctor.

Think about it for a minute and think about the 65k in medical expenses on inventory sheet. Do you think he went to Dr. S and purchased 65k in illegal drugs and then the estate managers wanted to put on it on the inventory sheet for tax purposes.

Don't you go to rehab for 30 days or more. Prince was working in the studio in Janaury and went out on tour and was not off the road enough to be in a rehab. Think

To break this down as succinctly as I can.

- The suboxone was actually ondansetron - there was no suboxone found at Paisley Park

- P didn't want rehab, at least until the last week, and even then it was his associates trying to get him help. Most likely KJ informing his publicist, if we're to believe what was reported

- You do not know when that blood test was taken, P saw Dr S earlier in the month as well

- You have no idea what he was being tested for. Literally hundreds of different things can be tested in the blood

- You keep refusing to believe that opiate addiction or opiate dependence can make someone feel quite ill. As in needing lots of tests to find out what's wrong kind of ill. There's a reason why the Soundgarden guy and Faith No More guy and Linkin Park guy all died in middle age. Their bodies had taken a toll from long term addiction.

- It's possible P had the same problem, long-term addiction to opiates resulting in a ever-worsening health situation in particular affecting his throat and digestive system, leading him to believe that he didn't have long to live. But you will refuse to believe this because of your obsessive ridiculously subjective slant on it. Delusions abound.

ThatWhiteDude said:

laurarichardson said:

You have no idea what happend to him. If he did not realize he was was addicted why was he seeing a doctor and why did he have the subxone. He obviously did not stop taking anything if you look at the pills found in the compound.

This is what happens when you spin things to get the narrative you want. Now according to you he had no idea he was having a problem with the drugs. Yet he had test run the day before don't you think if he had test run the day before he might have known he was having an issue with the drugs. Althought common sense should tell you drug addicts do not have to go to doctors for test to tell them they are struggling with drugs or going thru withdrawals.

Doctors do not need to bring test results to the next day to tell you " Oh you have a drug problem"

Doctors are not going to run test on you to go to rehab when you have been unmonitored all night long and are meeting with someone who is not even a doctor.

Think about it for a minute and think about the 65k in medical expenses on inventory sheet. Do you think he went to Dr. S and purchased 65k in illegal drugs and then the estate managers wanted to put on it on the inventory sheet for tax purposes.

Don't you go to rehab for 30 days or more. Prince was working in the studio in Janaury and went out on tour and was not off the road enough to be in a rehab. Think

Laura, I'm starting to lose my patience with you. You didn't read properly! I never said he didn't realise it, I said I GUESS he realised it when it was too late! Because you don't realise the addiction until you stop taking the pills! That's why it's physical addiction. Prince didn't take action until it was too late. And I truely believe he realised it when he stopped taking them. He probably thought he could just stop taking them.

But his body was already addicted, get it now? How can he realise he's addicted when it's all physical. If he knew it before, like if he was psychological addicted, then I guess it would've been way earlier. But I guess it was physical first, so he didn't know that he was addicted up until he stopped. And then it hit him.

I do not give a fuck about your patience. Get over yourself. " He didn't even realise that he was addicted," You typed this crap and how would he not know that he was not addicted until he stopped. Dude was not a moron and if he saw a doctor for advice he most certainly was aware of what was coming he had suboxone pills at Paisley. You also have no idea what his stituation was or the reason behind taking the pills. You need to stop embarrassing yourself.

laurarichardson said:

fortuneandserendipity said:

Well do us all a favor and name these ex-drug addicts, ostrich head. Because I have no idea who you could mean. Are you saying every opiate expert has first-hand personal experience of the drug

The 'information' you claim to have comes from Tyka Nelson. And she didn't say anything conclusive, but of course you will put your crazy spin on it, trying to make out she was meaning 'terminal illness'. Let's all wait for the book then. I guarantee nothing will come to light over P's imaginary terminal illness. Guarantee it! In 5 years time you'll still be waiting. And so will we

I think you are the ex-drug addict. You are much too invested in the world of pain pills. Apparently, none on the earth have more knowledge then you do.

I have info that does not come from Tyka although common sense should tell you that she has told us more then once that she knew he was going to die via written communication directly from him to her. ( What are you going to say if she kept the e-mail) Did that even occur to you?

Unless he had a crystal ball that told him he was going to die from an overdose a few years ahead I would suspect that he was ill. You know how all humans can get ill even Prince.

I have seen screen shot and communication from others in his circle they are not all going on about us the fans not knowing the whole story unless their is a another side to the story. If you do not see this you are being delusional to the point of mental distrubuance.

People are starting to talk now so we do not have to wait five years and I suspect you will disappear kind of like all of the naysayers on this board who said Prince was crazy for playing large arenas on the Musicology Tour. No one knew what he was going to pull off then and you have no idea what he was going thru in 2016.

The fact that you think he would leave a rehab book out in the open or drugs out in the open in a 65k square foot facility speaks volumes about your smarts. but they do call it "dope"

Things look they way the do because he wanted it this way. Who do you think took those cameras out and gave everybody the week off?

[Edited 12/28/17 12:35pm]

You do not have info that 'doesn't come from tyka'. You're basically lying. If you had definitive info proving P's terminal illness you would be posting it gleefully, whilst telling all the drug addled/ex druggy orgers how wrong we've been!

One thing I know for sure, your lack of critical thinking is just embarrassing. Surely this has been pointed out to you before. Like, i can forgive conceited people if they're really smart but

laurarichardson said:

You better pipe down Laura, because it possible to not realise the physical addiction until you stop taking the pills.

You have no clue about physical and psychological addiction and you show it in every comment you make!

Yes he saw a specialist but it was already too late for that! So that tells me he didn't realise his Problem until it was too late! Stop acting like you're "Miss Know-it-all" if you don't know shit about addiction!
[Edited 12/28/17 12:59pm]
[Edited 12/28/17 13:00pm]
[Edited 12/28/17 13:06pm]

fortuneandserendipity said:

laurarichardson said:

You have no idea what happend to him. If he did not realize he was was addicted why was he seeing a doctor and why did he have the subxone. He obviously did not stop taking anything if you look at the pills found in the compound.

This is what happens when you spin things to get the narrative you want. Now according to you he had no idea he was having a problem with the drugs. Yet he had test run the day before don't you think if he had test run the day before he might have known he was having an issue with the drugs. Althought common sense should tell you drug addicts do not have to go to doctors for test to tell them they are struggling with drugs or going thru withdrawals.

Doctors do not need to bring test results to the next day to tell you " Oh you have a drug problem"

Doctors are not going to run test on you to go to rehab when you have been unmonitored all night long and are meeting with someone who is not even a doctor.

Think about it for a minute and think about the 65k in medical expenses on inventory sheet. Do you think he went to Dr. S and purchased 65k in illegal drugs and then the estate managers wanted to put on it on the inventory sheet for tax purposes.

Don't you go to rehab for 30 days or more. Prince was working in the studio in Janaury and went out on tour and was not off the road enough to be in a rehab. Think

To break this down as succinctly as I can.

- The suboxone was actually ondansetron - there was no suboxone found at Paisley Park

- P didn't want rehab, at least until the last week, and even then it was his associates trying to get him help. Most likely KJ informing his publicist, if we're to believe what was reported

- You do not know when that blood test was taken, P saw Dr S earlier in the month as well

- You have no idea what he was being tested for. Literally hundreds of different things can be tested in the blood

- You keep refusing to believe that opiate addiction or opiate dependence can make someone feel quite ill. As in needing lots of tests to find out what's wrong kind of ill. There's a reason why the Soundgarden guy and Faith No More guy and Linkin Park guy all died in middle age. Their bodies had taken a toll from long term addiction.

- It's possible P had the same problem, long-term addiction to opiates resulting in a ever-worsening health situation in particular affecting his throat and digestive system, leading him to believe that he didn't have long to live. But you will refuse to believe this because of your obsessive ridiculously subjective slant on it. Delusions abound.

1. We discussed this on reply 1265 and 1273. A subxone pill was found at PP>

2. You have no idea what he wanted. We cannot believe what was reported. Remember we were told he od on percocet, that he left Moline immediatly in a huff, and the cameras were turned off. All lies.

3. We know from Dr. S speaking to the police that he was bringing test results from the day before. What medical test outside of X-Rays, Scans or blood pressure does not require a withdrawal of some sort of tissue or blood? No one is bringing a blood pressure test result to your home and X-Rays and scans can be done on the spot.

Yes, hundreds of things usually to see if one is ill. Unless you are donating blood what other reason do you have blood withdrawn. I do know pain pill addiction can make someone ill. I realize it can cause organ damage or one can just have organ damage which would require that all pain medication cease immediately which would cause severe withdrawal. Something I said back in 2016.

You do not need lots of test for liver or kidney problems. I know people who get these test all the time because so many meds can damage these organs. Even people who have legit Rxs It would not take long to find out if he had problems.

Or he could have had health issues that caused pain which would have made it hard to stop taking pain meds. Or maybe he had no choice but to take pain meds to the point of becoming addicted.

I have had a problem with an organ and I can tell you anyone you would be eating whole bottles of pain meds if your organs were on fire. This appears to be a tidbit you cannot comprehend.

The pain pills may have been the solution to termianl pain that was not going to go away rehab or no rehab. Items in bold are hints.

[Edited 12/28/17 13:09pm]

[Edited 12/29/17 5:18am]

ThatWhiteDude said:

laurarichardson said:

I do not give a fuck about your patience. Get over yourself. " He didn't even realise that he was addicted," You typed this crap and how would he not know that he was not addicted until he stopped. Dude was not a moron and if he saw a doctor for advice he most certainly was aware of what was coming he had suboxone pills at Paisley. You also have no idea what his stituation was or the reason behind taking the pills. You need to stop embarrassing yourself.

You better pipe down Laura, because it possible to not realise the physical addiction until you stop taking the pills. You have no clue about physical and psychological addiction and you show it in every comment you make! Yes he saw a specialist but it was already too late for that! So that tells me he didn't realise his Problem until it was too alte! Stop acting like you're "Miss Know-it-all" if you don't know shit about addiction! [Edited 12/28/17 12:59pm] [Edited 12/28/17 13:00pm]

I know enough to know how people are who have been addicted. You project. Your story is not everybody else story. You are missing hugh pieces of info and have drawn conclusions based on your experiences.

laurarichardson said:

No, I gave an example with pills that aren't even strong to show you how easy it is to get addicted! Just try to imagine how fast you're getting addicted if the pills are as strong as those Prince took. But I guess it's too mich to ask for.

ThatWhiteDude said:

laurarichardson said:

I know enough to know how people are who have been addicted. You project. Your story is not everybody else story. You are missing hugh pieces of info and have drawn conclusions based on your experiences.

No, I gave an example with pills that aren't even strong to show you how easy it is to get addicted! Just try to imagine how fast you're getting addicted if the pills are as strong as those Prince took. But I guess it's too mich to ask for.

You are carrying on about something that is not relevant.

laurarichardson said:

No, I gave an example

Misslink88 said:

The mind is a very powerful tool if used correctly.

unfortunately it's as powerful if used incorrectly.
there're some orgers who would stop posting the way they do immediatly if they knew one or two things about that